Taking responsibility for counteracting bigotry in our midst

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Taking responsibility for counteracting bigotry in our midst

Postby Doodad » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:26 pm

New York City activist
November 4, 2007
Taking responsibility for counteracting bigotry in our midst


Many people in the 9/11 Truth movement are appalled by the blatant Jew-hating of once-respected 9/11 Truth activists such as Eric Hufschmid and Christopher Bollyn. But how should we counter such bigotry?

Some 9/11 Truth activists think the thing to do is simply to refuse to associate with the Jew-haters. But that, in my opinion, is a band-aid solution. We need to address the deeper problem of how some bigoted ideologies, primarily though not exclusively anti-Jewish, are being promulgated these days within various political movements including the 9/11 Truth movement.

Jew-hating ideologies are most commonly promulgated in disguised form. The two favorite disguises seem to be:

1. Exaggerated, oversimplified, highly rhetorical denunciations of the banking system, or of “international bankers” - even though the biggest banking families here in the U.S.A. are in fact WASP, not Jewish. (See my previous posts on Some of the rhetoric against the Federal Reserve System and Fractional reserve banking: A response to some of the hullabaloo.)
2. Anti-Illuminism, i.e. belief in an ongoing, evil, world-controlling conspiracy of the “Illuminati.” (See my previous posts on The recent growth of anti-Illuminism: Dreadful ideology about the dreaded Illuminati and More about anti-Illuminism.)

By no means do all believers in either the “Illuminati” or demonized “bankers” hate Jews. Many do not. Some are even Jews themselves. However, these ideologies are historically intertwined with and closely parallel classic Jew-hating myths. For example, some anti-Illuminists have claimed that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a notorious anti-Jewish forgery, is entirely true and accurate if you just substitute “Illuminati” for “Jews.” And a lot of the rhetoric we’ve been hearing in the alternative media about the Federal Reserve System is derived from writings such as Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins, a notorious Jew-hater who also believed that Jews ritually kill Christian children. Speaking of ritual murder, there’s also the “Satanic Ritual Abuse” scare, which often goes hand-in-hand with anti-Illuminism.

What is wrong with these ideologies, besides being largely unfounded in reality, as far as I can tell?

1. They help to create a climate in which bigotry can flourish. From either of the two above-discussed ideologies, especially anti-Illuminism, it’s only a very short intellectual step to enbracing classical anti-Jewish conspiracy theories too. Furthermore, as detailed in The recent growth of anti-Illuminism: Dreadful ideology about the dreaded Illuminati, anti-Illuminism itself typically entails bigotry against various sorts of people, primarily nonmainstream religions, but even mainstream religions too.
2. To almost any Jew who is familiar with the history of bigotry against Jews, these ideologies will seem utterly creepy. Thus they are one of the factors which scare Jews away from the 9/11 Truth movement. Anti-Illuminism also scares politically aware people of other minority religions, e.g. Wiccans. Gays should be scared of it too, because anti-Illuminist propaganda often vilifies gays too as part of the dreaded “New World Order.”

To many other people, anti-Illuminism may seem harmlessly hokey. After all, if a person is going to be bigoted, it’s better to be bigoted against a totally imaginary group of people than against real people. The Illuminati themselves, if indeed they still exist, aren’t complaining. The problem is that many real people - and, in many cases, entire religions - are seen as agents of the Illuminati. So, anyone who opposes religion-based bigotry should be wary of anti-Illuminism.

So, what can we do? The main thing is to educate ourselves and others about these matters. Question the ideologies that pervade the populist alternative media, as well as the ideologies that pervade the mainstream mass media.

Learn about the history of religious persecution. Christians too were once rumored to be an evil cannibal cult.

If you feel that the banking system needs to be reformed, fine, but do your own research on it, don’t just blindly echo right wing populist rhetoric or even “scholars” such as Eustace Mullins. I would suggest purchasing an Economics 101 text book, if you didn’t take an economics course in college. And then, if you happen to live in a city that has a local Federal Reserve Bank building, I would suggest visiting their library, as well as your local public library and university library, if any. Make sure your own critique of the banking system is based on a genuine and sound understanding of economics and finance, not just on political ideology. Of course there are many different schools of economic thought, influenced by different political ideologies; I would suggest learning about a variety of them.

My recommendation is that we oppose the above-discussed ideologies not in a heavy-handed, denunciatory manner, but through rational argument and by educating ourselves and others about the history of these ideologies.



http://activistnyc.wordpress.com/2007/1 ... our-midst/
Doodad
 

Postby brownzeroed » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:45 am

Bump.

Truth is, I think people are just fucking scared and desperately want to have someone tell them what's what. Fair enough. Unfortunately, there are creeps ready to swoop in and screw with their minds. I'm certain if people had an inkling of where they were really taking their marching orders it would be a different story. I don't think any "progressive" (whatever that means) wants to share a bed with a dude like Willis Carto.

Put bluntly, this shit is complicated, and NOWHERE on this planet is a capacity for abstract thought rewarded. <-- Horrible sentence but I think it holds water. We're all victims of bad programming.
brownzeroed
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:25 am

Fuck whoever wrote this.

To all the victims of real Satanic ritual abuse...

to all the victims of Satanic megarituals like 9/11...

to all the people whove been victims of the European, American and Arab elite bankers, and the esoteric dark occultic elite...

it's of a great disservice to whoever wrote that to try and say exposing the Satanic banking elite is somehow "anti Semetic".

Let me put it to whoever wrote it this way:

Real life "Illuminati" types cloaked themselves around Hitler, who himself and the Nazis were the mere puppets of internationalist bankers.

Be it Thule, Skull and Bones, Rockefeller Standard Oil, IBM, Bayer,
Union Banking Corporation, Brown Brothers Harriman, Henry Ford, London Financial, Wallstreet, etc.

The "Protocols of Zion" in a way was used by Hitler...so that all future
examples of people alleging a shadowy cabal running the world would be called "anti Semetic".

He killed many Freemasons and Jews, so that anyone who spoke out against secret societies in the future, or Zionism would be labeled a "Nazi".

But Hitler was a puppet.

And it's shameful for this person who wrote this to try and allege 9/11 was somehow a "conspiracy", when they poo poo the idea of an elite cabal to begin with.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Gouda » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:39 am

once-respected 9/11 Truth activists such as Eric Hufschmid and Christopher Bollyn

They were?

The rest of what NYC Activist says needs to be respectfully considered.
User avatar
Gouda
 
Posts: 3009
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:53 am
Location: a circular mould
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:07 am

Actually I think this is a pretty good piece.

There is a tremendous fog of disinfo thrown up around the topic of SRA, and the subject has largely been surrendered to the far right and the mentally unstable. For a long time it was on my list of things unworthy of consideration. So I won't fault the author for failing to pierce the fog and see that something is there after all. I fault the fog.

I've said it before, but the word "Illuminati" doesn't help. It doesn't name anybody, except the nameless Them, and whatever authenticity it had has been leeched from it by pop culture and ignorance. It now connotes a caricature of an occult criminal elite, which handicaps discussion of the real thing.

I especially like this: "If you feel that the banking system needs to be reformed, fine, but do your own research on it, don’t just blindly echo right wing populist rhetoric or even 'scholars' such as Eustace Mullins." The point being: know the importance of sourcing your own convictions.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Doodad » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:15 am

Gouda wrote:
once-respected 9/11 Truth activists such as Eric Hufschmid and Christopher Bollyn

They were?

The rest of what NYC Activist says needs to be respectfully considered.


Bollyn

http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html

Hufscmid

http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html#hufschmid
Doodad
 

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:44 am

I'm sure Gouda's objection is the assumption that they were "once-respected," not their claim to be "9/11 Truth activists."
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby GM Citizen » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:36 pm

Trotting out, yet again, this sort of fiction, appears to equate 9/11 truthers to anti-semitism.

Apparently, we the people, are too stupid to see that the Zionists that had a role in this event, we mere patsies.

Now why would you want to do that, Doodad?
Veni, Vidi, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around
GM Citizen
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:02 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby GM Citizen » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:48 pm

The same person also wrote the following, admitting he/she hasn't even looked at any evidence of Israeli involvement, but that it should not merely be dislaimed, but also counteracted:

------------------------------------
P.S.: I should clarify that I don’t currently take a position on whether there was any Israeli involvement in the attacks of 9/11. I have not yet investigated the alleged evidence on this issue. However, I think a lot of people’s fear of the 9/11 Truth movement revolves around fear of the possibility of Israeli involvement, or at least fear of the possible consequences of people believing in same. To allay the latter fear, it is not enough to disclaim Jew-hating. We need to show that we care, by taking responsibility for counteracting bigotry. In my opinion, those of us who do believe that Israel was involved in the 9/11 attacks have an extra responsibility to counteract, not just disclaim, what would otherwise be the likely bigoted fallout of their position.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around
GM Citizen
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:02 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Doodad » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:55 pm

GM Citizen wrote:Trotting out, yet again, this sort of fiction, appears to equate 9/11 truthers to anti-semitism.

Apparently, we the people, are too stupid to see that the Zionists that had a role in this event, we mere patsies.

Now why would you want to do that, Doodad?


What exact roles did they play? Most of the stuff I've seen bandied about has been discredited or unproven. Specifics?
Doodad
 

Postby Gouda » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:59 pm

Jeff wrote:
I'm sure Gouda's objection is the assumption that they were "once-respected," not their claim to be "9/11 Truth activists."

Yep.
User avatar
Gouda
 
Posts: 3009
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:53 am
Location: a circular mould
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:00 pm

"In my opinion, those of us who do believe that Israel was involved in the 9/11 attacks have an extra responsibility to counteract, not just disclaim, what would otherwise be the likely bigoted fallout of their position."

Why is this a bad idea?

But people like Hufscmid and Bollyn and the hard right "Truthers" do the opposite, and purposefully blur the categories of Israel and Jew and mix historical revision and holocaust denial into the 9/11 mix. It stinks, and don't think people can't smell it.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Taking responsibility for counteracting bigotry in our m

Postby OnoI812 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:00 pm

these ideologies will seem utterly creepy


The whole world is creepy when you really think about it...No one entity has a monopoly on creepdom
OnoI812
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 1:36 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:15 pm

...I have not yet investigated the alleged evidence on this issue....those of us who do believe that Israel was involved in the 9/11 attacks have an extra responsibility to counteract, not just disclaim, what would otherwise be the likely bigoted fallout of their position.


Translation: "Your responsibility is not to the facts, nor to your self-preservation. YOU are accountable for the "likely bigoted fallout", but Israel is not, for its crimes, which I have not investigated. Neither are its agents, and their massive, decades-long campaign to identify Israel as synonymous with "the Jews". Only you. Better not go there. I haven't. I don't want to know. And neither should you."

On a lighter note, isn't it great about the additional $30 billion in military aid we will be giving to Israel? Of course our economy is collapsing, with the greatest debt in the history of the United States. But nothing's too good for Israel. Israel is our friend. :shock:
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby jingofever » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:15 pm

Bollyn is the source of the rumor that the Popular Mechanics editor with the name of Chertoff is the cousin of Michael Chertoff. People still cite that (I'm thinking of the Godfather of 9/11 Truth, Alex Jones) but Ben Chertoff denies it. Bollyn may not get respect anymore but some of his ideas do.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 157 guests