The 9/11 Thread To End All 9/11 Threads

[orz]

I hope it really DOES end all 9/11 threads!

Seriously, some interesting stuff for sure. Change from the usual C.D. rehash.

[nomo]

Great, another interesting thread totally ruined by Hugh. Could you please take your toys and go play somewhere else?

[FourthBase]

Great, another interesting thread totally ruined by Hugh. Could you please take your toys and go play somewhere else?

Hey, this doesn't help.

[Fat Lady Singing]

Hi all: as regards to the "Twin Towers" reference in the Paul Bonnaci case, I believe he was referring to a particular hotel in Omaha (or wherever he's from). I read The Franklin Coverup a long time ago, so I'm sorry I can't be sure or more specific, but you may want to check that book to verify that part of your thesis.

It's a very interesting thesis, BTW--it's amazing how you're able to tie so many things together. Does it do it so neatly as to strain credulity? Perhaps, but I'm more intrigued by this than other theories I've read recently. I hope to have time to study it further.

[AlicetheKurious]

What about the near-certainty that doubles were used for (at least) Mohamed Atta and Ziad Jarrah? There's a good chance that neither of them were at all involved in the 9/11 attacks, but, like so many of the other Arab patsies, were selected to ensure that the main consequence of the attacks would be the identification of Arabs as "the enemy".

As for the "Nazi" organization that recruited Atta, that it's connected to the U.S. State Dept., in partnership with their German counterparts, and provides "promising students" with scholarships abroad. I believe that Henry Kissinger is on the board on the American side. No doubt, as a middle-class Egyptian kid, Atta was very excited at such a wonderful opportunity, as were his family.

There's no evidence that Atta was ever in Bosnia, still less that he was ever in Afghanistan; the behaviour and even appearance of the "Atta" who was in Florida indicates that he could not have been the same "Atta" who was later tied to the 9/11 attacks. For one thing, he apparently spoke no German, for another, according to his girlfriend, he spoke fluent Hebrew. He also spoke English with a "flawless accent", while the real Atta spoke very little English. Etc., etc.

Jarrah was in two places simultaneously, and most of the evidence against him was clearly planted. His double was stopped at Dubai Airport at the request of the CIA, where the Jarrah double went on record saying that he was just returning from Pakistan, while the real Jarrah was in the US studying (I think that was in 1999).

Constantly repeating that the Muslim Brotherhood & Nazis are joined at the hip doesn't make it so. I'm no fan of the MB, but that's a feverish zionist meme that requires a lot of ignorance (not to mention an endless supply of exclamation marks!!!!!) and a tolerance for innuendo as a substitute for logic and facts.

Like Hugh said, you do have some good stuff, but it's mixed in with dubious factoids and misleading half-truths, particularly the "Nazi" angle, which is far from convincing.

I wish I could provide links, but it's 2:30am and I'm off to bed. Besides, I did post those links in a previous discussion with you about those very things, and it doesn't seem to have done much good.

One thing that is very clear: if the official story is not true, and if the 9/11 attacks could not have been carried out without high-level involvement within the US government itself, SOMEBODY went to a HELL of a lot of trouble to ensure that Muslims/Arabs would be blamed, and that Muslims/Arabs would become fair game for the War on Terror that ensued.

And they have been: the attacks were used as a launching pad to justify the invasion & occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, the insane swelling of the US military budget, the expansion of US military bases around Russia, China, the oil-rich Caspian basin, not to mention the 14 bases in Iraq and the planned base in northern Lebanon. We mustn't forget the enormous business opportunities for Israeli arms merchants and the booming market for Israeli "counterterrorism expertise."

What have the Arabs/Muslims gained as a result of the attacks? Frozen bank accounts and assets, harassment, bombs, torture and secret prisons. Added to the Palestinian refugees, and the Sudanese refugees, now we have millions of Iraqi refugees as well. Many of the profits from the higher oil prices that have gone to Gulf countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE have been returned to the US in the form of exorbitant weapons purchases that can only be used with US permission and according to US interests.

OK. Now it's 2:50am. Gotta go.

[Doodad]

What about the near-certainty that doubles were used for (at least) Mohamed Atta and Ziad Jarrah?

Near certainty? Oh, please do illuminate us.

[Byrne]

Promis software was given a trial run using 'field researchers' in Afgahnistan in the late 90's (see my 2nd post HERE (Oh where has Qutb gone?:roll:) . Somewhere in the story of 911 lies the British/European connections (yep, they were required as part of the plan). I don't believe these connections have been fully researched. Read this Guardian aticle from February 2002, which spells out a few names who, I think, were part of the (2x removed) facilitations (unbeknown to them).

Djamel Beghal
Kamel Daoudi
Baghdad Meziane and Brahim Benmerzouga (the first brits to be 'done' for teror)
Abu Doha (still under a UK 'Control Order' with no charge levied against him)
Jerome Courtailler & David Courtailler (also part of the Madrid bombings story)

Research also the the non-plot plot to attack the US Embassy in Paris and the London facilitations provided for two journalists who were (perhaps, again, unbeknown to them) involved in the murder of Ahmed Shah Massoud in Afghanistan, 2 or 3 days before the brand launch of 911, paving the way for the subsequent locally unattested invasion of Afghanistan (unattested by the "Lion of Panjshir").

Another unused patsy is british flight school attendee Mohammad Afroz.

[§ê¢rꆧ]

Thanks for this thread, 8bit. This is definitely the underplayed side of 911 investigation

Here's Kill the Messenger in a form you can download and covert to dvd for anybody interested... (700 mb)

http://www.eatlime.com/download.lc?sid= ... 30488882b4

[8bitagent]

Hi all: as regards to the "Twin Towers" reference in the Paul Bonnaci case, I believe he was referring to a particular hotel in Omaha (or wherever he's from). I read The Franklin Coverup a long time ago, so I'm sorry I can't be sure or more specific, but you may want to check that book to verify that part of your thesis.

It's a very interesting thesis, BTW--it's amazing how you're able to tie so many things together. Does it do it so neatly as to strain credulity? Perhaps, but I'm more intrigued by this than other theories I've read recently. I hope to have time to study it further.

Aww! Right you are. I have edited that out of my post. I've only read part of Franklin Coverup online. I should read the latest expanded edition in full.

I came across the interesting article from MSNBC that directly links the bin laden group to david rockefeller's world trade center:
http://www.slate.com/?id=2060207

It's amazing what ya can accidentally come across

Yeah the Franklin Coverup is so disturbing. And Wikipedia DARES to call it a "hoax". It shows how ignorant people are.

People want to talk about Clinton BJ, Larry Craig toe tapping...but oh goodness, lets not talk about the real sex abuses.

Never mind that much of the child kidnapping worldwide is organized by governments, corporations and the UN

Most 9/11 sites and movies paint this vague WASPy "CIA and Cheney" did 9/11, and I wanted to show the real architecture and backbone to that meme

[8bitagent]

Promis software was given a trial run using 'field researchers' in Afgahnistan in the late 90's (see my 2nd post HERE (Oh where has Qutb gone?:roll:) . Somewhere in the story of 911 lies the British/European connections (yep, they were required as part of the plan). I don't believe these connections have been fully researched. Read this Guardian aticle from February 2002, which spells out a few names who, I think, were part of the (2x removed) facilitations (unbeknown to them).

Djamel Beghal
Kamel Daoudi
Baghdad Meziane and Brahim Benmerzouga (the first brits to be 'done' for teror)
Abu Doha (still under a UK 'Control Order' with no charge levied against him)
Jerome Courtailler & David Courtailler (also part of the Madrid bombings story)

Research also the the non-plot plot to attack the US Embassy in Paris and the London facilitations provided for two journalists who were (perhaps, again, unbeknown to them) involved in the murder of Ahmed Shah Massoud in Afghanistan, 2 or 3 days before the brand launch of 911, paving the way for the subsequent locally unattested invasion of Afghanistan (unattested by the "Lion of Panjshir").

Another unused patsy is british flight school attendee Mohammad Afroz.

I have NO doubt the MI6 was deeply involved in 9/11. And not just Omar Saeed. I believe that London and Hamberg mosques are intelligence recruitment monster factories, like the Norman Oklahoma mosque.

Hardly ANYONE cept Nafeez Khan and a few others ever mentions British roles in 9/11. Its allllways neocons, saudis, isi and mossad.

But we know, that London sits as one of the main pillars of the nwo, and Europe and general. The neocons feel like a puppet of European elites, not the other way around...or perhaps, more accurately...meta transnational corporations with no national allegiance

Good point on Promis' evolution...only Michael Rupert has gone into this from what Ive read, in regards to leading to 9/11

Im curious, whatever aspects regarding 9/11 and the post BCCI terror-intelligence-narco-arms-charity world you know of?

As for the "Nazi" organization that recruited Atta, that it's connected to the U.S. State Dept., in partnership with their German counterparts, and provides "promising students" with scholarships abroad. I believe that Henry Kissinger is on the board on the American side. No doubt, as a middle-class Egyptian kid, Atta was very excited at such a wonderful opportunity, as were his family.

There's no evidence that Atta was ever in Bosnia, still less that he was ever in Afghanistan; the behaviour and even appearance of the "Atta" who was in Florida indicates that he could not have been the same "Atta" who was later tied to the 9/11 attacks. For one thing, he apparently spoke no German, for another, according to his girlfriend, he spoke fluent Hebrew. He also spoke English with a "flawless accent", while the real Atta spoke very little English. Etc., etc.

Jarrah was in two places simultaneously, and most of the evidence against him was clearly planted. His double was stopped at Dubai Airport at the request of the CIA, where the Jarrah double went on record saying that he was just returning from Pakistan, while the real Jarrah was in the US studying (I think that was in 1999).

Constantly repeating that the Muslim Brotherhood & Nazis are joined at the hip doesn't make it so. I'm no fan of the MB, but that's a feverish zionist meme that requires a lot of ignorance (not to mention an endless supply of exclamation marks!!!!!) and a tolerance for innuendo as a substitute for logic and facts.

Im accused of being an "anti Semetic" for saying that there's a lot of evidence that either as a watcher or worse, Israel was involved in 9/11.
I get accused of using a neocon/Zionist tactic for saying the Nazis and Muslim Brotherhood are in league together.

Fact is, there is no doubt that Hitler, the SS and the Muslim Brotherhood were in deep together; and some of these types funded the al Taqwa bank.

The US government false flag of Oklahoma city used both neo Nazis and Muslim provocatuers. Its the same theme over and over.

When I talk about Atta, Im talking about the man who in 2000 came to America and was bragging how he was a pilot, and needed to rent cropdusters for Osama

The Atta who made sure he and his hijacker pals left a *deliberate* trail, indulging in over the top cocaine, booze, hookers, porn, strippers, and rudeness.

I think people like to poo poo Arab involvement. But it is a very large part of 9/11

Lets look at Mamoun Darkazani. He was a large part of the Hamberg cell with Atta, a close friend of Wadih el Hage(head of Al Kifah Brooklyn, the CIA terror front, and Osama's secretary) who had his own company
AND was buying ships for Osama
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004 ... ties_x.htm

Darkazani was outed as a CIA informant, a major part of 9/11, yet...
was RELEASED in a German court

Since 9/11, countless Arabs and Muslims have been arrested and detained, meanwhile the Arabs WHO WERE involved in 9/11 have
been freed or put under protection.

Isnt that interesting. The US government has murdered countless Arabs and Muslims since 9/11, yet theres really been no 9/11 trial. The Zacharius Moussaoui trial was such a farce, in fact the trial showed that the US government was involved in 9/11 more than it showed Moussaoui was to blame.

I dont know much about the "doubles" case, just what I read on Team8 awhile back. In this spy vs spy world, anythings possible

I do know ZiadJarrah's email was ziadjarrah@ab.com (defense company) and Atta was in close contact with defense technology firms.

Regardless if the "19" were on the planes, there movement in the US is a fact; and the reason for it points to the real perps

[slow_dazzle]

That is the title of an article that appeared in Scoop NZ earlier this year.

Bin Laden has mostly been painted as the black sheep amongst his reputed 22 brothers and sisters. However, this claim appears to be in dispute. Mike Ruppert mentions that the story of Bin Laden being disowned was something he had looked into and dismissed way back when he was interviewed on Coast to Coast. And the Scoop article mentions the same thing in 2007:

The July 24, 2000 memorandum mentions a $2.4 million payment in favor of the al-Qaeda leader made by the International Islamic Relief Organization (IIRO), a structure placed directly under the trusteeship of the Muslim World League, itself considered a policy instrument of the Saudi ulemas. It took until August 3, 2006, however, for the IIRO offices to figure on the American Treasury Department's official list of organizations financing terrorism. During the course of that month of July 2000, two years after the Nairobi and Dar-es-Salam attacks, the authors of this memo doubted the sincerity of the positions proclaimed by the bin Laden family itself: "It seems more and more likely that Osama bin Laden has maintained contact with certain members of his family, even though the family, which directs one of the biggest public works companies in the world, has officially disowned him. One of his brothers seems to play the role of intermediary in his professional contacts and in the monitoring of his affairs." According to Mr. Lorenzi, it was the recurrence of these doubts and more specifically the IIRO's ambivalence that would lead the DGSE to mobilize along with the Quai d'Orsay in 1999, when French diplomats proposed an international convention against the financing of terrorism to the United Nations.

The business relationships between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family are well documented; the latter are incredibly wealthy and they run major operations such as satellites to relay cell phone calls. Then we add in the fact that Arabs were allowed to fly out of the US just after 9/11. That should raise questions even amongst the most partisan of people.

And there seems to have been Israeli involvement at some level. The Israelis apparently tried to warn the US government but 9/11 went ahead. However, there is some evidence that Israeli companies in the WTC buildings were warned to get out. As far as I can recall, one company even broke its lease to do that.

So we have this paradox of evidence for both Arab and Israeli involvement in 9/11 in various ways. Yet there is enmity between both groups. That is where we need to step back and consider the power brought to bear on 9/11 as caring not a whit for ethnicity or political affiliation.

I'm not entirely sure what is going on here but one thing I can say with reasoanble certainty is what we have been presented with is a choice between one group or another as the perps of 9/11. That is binary thinking and it has the unfortunate effect of taking attention away from the amoral, stateless nature of those behind 9/11 and the wider war against us, the people. The binary thinking that steeers people towards one single group is a blind alley. The inter-relationship between the various bits of power that transcend ethnic, national or political allegiances is much more complex than "it was the Israelis" or "it was the Arabs".

And hatred clouds judgement. Hatred is one of the genies that was let out of the bottle after 9/11. I suspect this is why some of the more strident trooferati sites focus heavily on one "group" as the perps. These sites are possibly propaganda/COINTELPRO.

Final comment - This short narrative is not aimed, even tangentially or obliquely, at anyone who has posted in this thread. However, I want to acknowledge the good work put in by 8bitagent.

[Doodad]

deleted

[GM Citizen]

However, there is some evidence that Israeli companies in the WTC buildings were warned to get out.

This has been totally discredited. Please don't continue spreading it.

The population of New York City is approximately 12-percent Jewish. 10-to 15-percent of the 2,071 victims of the World Trade Center attacks were Jewish There were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish.

Zim shipping lease story is absurd

http://www.911myths.com/html/zim_shipping.html

Doodad, poor Doodad. Mike Willam's 911myths.com is strongly suspected of being a disinfo site. Don't you have a better cite? Something remotely legitimate?

Unbiased? Neutral? Non-Zionist?

The term one-trick pony comes to mind.

[Doodad]

deleted

[8bitagent]

However, there is some evidence that Israeli companies in the WTC buildings were warned to get out.

This has been totally discredited. Please don't continue spreading it.

The population of New York City is approximately 12-percent Jewish. 10-to 15-percent of the 2,071 victims of the World Trade Center attacks were Jewish There were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish.

Zim shipping lease story is absurd

http://www.911myths.com/html/zim_shipping.html

Doodad, poor Doodad. Mike Willam's 911myths.com is strongly suspected of being a disinfo site. Don't you have a better cite? Something remotely legitimate?

Unbiased? Neutral? Non-Zionist?

The term one-trick pony comes to mind.

Facts are facts. Refute 'em or hush up.

The again, I suspect you've never let a fact get in your way before.

so there is no truth to Israeli spies living right near, or near next door to the hijackers in Florida?

There's a joke...that goes...

if there's a lot of young Israelis selling toys at mall kiosks nationwide...there might be a terror attack on the way

That might seem racist on its face...

but it's like saying "if high ranking Pakistani ISI officials are meeting with top government officials...there might be a terror attack on the way"

It's about interpretation. While the FIRST 9/11 "theory" was purposefully about "the Jews did it!"("4000 didnt show up to work"), one thing that began to emerge...is that Israeli spies, Israeli communication companies and Mossad are forever tied to 9/11 be it in an ambigous, direct or mysterious role.