American Ate My Brain II

by **Doodad** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am

There is something a tad "off," with comic books putting the universe on the therapeutic couch. The same applies to zombie movies.

I go with the bucks and what sells in Peoria.

by **FourthBase** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:30 am

Jeff wrote:Thanks for the dialogue and the good observations.

I think I need to whip off a part three, because as long as it took me to post I feel like I still didn't get to the point.

Zombies are perfectly nihilistic, but zombie stories needn't be. If they're parables then they're certainly not. And if that's what Marvel Zombies is, then its apparent nihilism is something else: a Twilight of the Gods. (Nietzsche gets the rap of nihilism too, but he's exhilaratingly not.)

Heroes have to die if we're ever to do anything ourselves, and they can't die heroically if we're ever to be free of them.

I think the parable-ness of Marvel Zombies is irrelevant to most of its audience, and I think that reality is relevant when determining its worth and function. Furthermore, I don't find any similarity between Nietzsche psychologically deconstructing the figure of, say, Socrates (whom Nietzsche still regarded as a personal superhero of sorts)...and re-casting cartoon superheroes as undead cannibals.

by **FourthBase** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:45 am

Remember, he's philosophizing with a hammer like this:

Not like this:

by cc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:48 am

Attack Ships on Fire wrote:
brekin wrote:Very apt post by Jeff.

The real superhero got "lowered" to the level playing field that the rest of us live at when writers started thinking about what would make someone want to dress up like a bat for the rest of their lives, or how someone who is supposed to be invulnerable to death, disease and the rest of humanity's frailties would have social/sexual relationships with ordinary mortals. The Marvel Zombies storyline is shocking only because your idealism for what constitutes a superhero remains outdated and the zombie craze caught up with Marvel's desire to make a buck from their fans.

One aspires to be as moralistic as Superman. One can never be Superman.

isn't this essentially the premise of Watchmen when you break it down. not looking forward to the movie adaption i might add...

by **FourthBase** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:59 am

The real superhero got "lowered" to the level playing field that the rest of us live at when writers started thinking about what would make someone want to dress up like a bat for the rest of their lives, or how someone who is supposed to be invulnerable to death, disease and the rest of humanity's frailties would have social/sexual relationships with ordinary mortals. The Marvel Zombies storyline is shocking only because your idealism for what constitutes a superhero remains outdated and the zombie craze caught up with Marvel's desire to make a buck from their fans.

One aspires to be as moralistic as Superman. One can never be Superman.

"Only"? Is there not a fucking galactic chasm separating the lowering of superhuman heroes by giving them human frailties...and turning all superhuman heroes into fucking zombie cannibals??? That's not just me being "outdated" or the zombie fad "catching up"...that's fundamentally fucked in the fucking head.

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:01 pm

I think someone's taking their comic books a little too seriously..

by **Seamus OBlimey** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:16 pm

Wow! Comiconoclastic!

Can't wait for part 3 :shock:

?

by **FourthBase** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:26 pm

et in Arcadia ego wrote:I think someone's taking their comic books a little too seriously..

No, I'm taking my memes seriously. Wildly popular memes, whose putative allegorical function is comprehensible to a small minority of intellectuals. Are you seriously taking me to task for taking this shit seriously? Seriously? Are you sure you're on the right forum, reading the right blog? Don't get all fucking nonchalantly "cool" all of sudden.

by **Doodad** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:34 pm

is comprehensible to a small minority of intellectuals.

my heroes.......(swoon.)

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:36 pm

Being an RI member does not mean by default I go into mind-numbing panic or moral outrage with every thread or discussion; I choose my freak-outs with a little more discretion than that.

As I said, I can see Jeff's POV, but I don't have the same perspective. If these comics do anything, they tend to place a more human face on the superheros by exposing previously concealed or altogether absent human elements and weaknesses in an often humorous, if black, manner. Black Comedy has existed for centuries, or is the next accusation going to be that the CIA used a Time Machine to head back and manipulate the Greek Tragedy playwriters?

Have you actually read the comics or is this just a knee-jerk reaction to Jeff's post?

And as for your meme about this being a manipulation for accepting cannibalism, despite my own ocassional daydreamings about being in a zombie scenario(no horror fan has not done this at some point), I tend to reject your take on it altogether. I don't reject the very real possibility that such a thing could happen in the face of full economic/social collapse, and I've made the same prediction many times here. I'm just saying that I don't believe the comics have anything to do with peddling familiarity with such a scenario. People don't need conditioning for that kind of thing; all they require is an empty stomach for a long enough period and instinct will take over.

I'm allowed to do that, yes? Think my own thoughts on something? Or should we be as lockstep jack-booting here at RI as the rest of the world that we profess so much dislike for?

by **brekin** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:39 pm

I agree with those who "labeled" me as having an out dated view of super heroes. Call me a classicalist, but if the pantheon of idealized fictional people that children, juveniles and a lot of adults hold as models of what is the ideal end of human behavior are debased to the point where they lose even there humanity, then yeah I think that's profane.

I can't play basketball like Michael Jordan either, but he is useful as a model of something to aspire to on the basketball field. Super heroes are emblems of ultimate good, and the super villians they battle as ultimate evil, of course this is a gross simplification of what really happens in the real world, but it is useful as a chalkline in the black void. Many people ask themselves, "What would Jesus do?", Others may ask, perhaps not even fully consciously, "What would Superman do?"

Research has shown before people commit a good or bad act, they consult inner conscienses they have built from role models they have internalized over time. In the excellent book Men From The Future it talks about the origin of most of our current superheroes. Superman came out in part from two Jewish mens horror of how the Holocaust was allowed to happen. Too bad a Superman didn't exist who could rectify such evil. It's fascintating to tweak archetypes, like Red Son where Superman is raised in Russia, but not destroy them, having Superman say as the tool of the Nazi's Final Solution.

Like it or not, we need heroes. How do "we" become heroes, if we kill all of ours? Who will teach us? Sure it'd be great if it wasn't the case, but you don't raise everyone up by degrading the exceptional. Superheroes no matter how exceptional, teach us that a normal life is something that is valued and needs to be protected with a secret identity, that power must serve the good and be used sparingly, that if you do have "secret powers" you have a duty to use them for good.

Am I arguing that the Marvel Zombies series shouldn't have been made? Of course not, such themes are interesting to explore. But it's a lot more then just drawing horns and tails on angels. If I was the inker who was tasked at illustrating the greats as amoral brain eating junkies, I'd have to pass. Basically there is no coming back from being a zombie that's eaten it's parents.

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:45 pm

In case it isn't obvious, given the response here I think its important to point out that the Marvel Zombies are a spin-off, not a replacement, for the existing superhero comics.

Those that still require intact superheros sans blue skin and icky teeth can find them making monthly appearances on your favorite newsstands..

by **FourthBase** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:47 pm

Doodad wrote:
is comprehensible to a small minority of intellectuals.

my heroes.......(swoon.)

The point is that most of the audience aren't in that minority. Should we congratulate ourselves for getting it and comfort ourselves with the fact that at least somebody gets it, all the while the people who don't get it -- the vast majority -- are conditioned into a more and more abhorrent status quo? You all can suck each other's dicks for being among the cognoscenti who realize there's nothing to worry about (for you) in fictitious horror shows, who appreciate the subtle subversive allegories of superheroes-turned-cannibals, wonderful. Meanwhile, I'll be freaking out about the unsophisticates who outnumber us 90-1.

by **FourthBase** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:48 pm

et in Arcadia ego wrote:In case it isn't obvious, given the response here I think its important to point out that the Marvel Zombies are a spin-off, not a replacement, for the existing superhero comics.

Those that still require intact superheros sans blue skin and icky teeth can find them making monthly appearances on your favorite newsstands..

I find that hardly relevant, actually.

by **IanEye** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:52 pm

ZOMBIE by Fela Kuti

Zombie-o, zombie
*[CHORUS] ZOMBIE-O, ZOMBIE (2X)

Zombie no go go, unless you tell am to go
*[CHORUS] ZOMBIE *(after each line)
Zombie no go stop, unless you tell am to stop
Zombie no go turn, unless you tell am to turn
Zombie no go think, unless you tell am to think

Zombie-o, zombie
*[CHORUS] ZOMBIE-O, ZOMBIE (2X) *(repeat last 2 stanzas)

Tell am to go straight-- Joro, Jara, Joro
No break, no job, no sense-- Joro, Jara, Joro
Tell am to go kill-- Joro, Jara, Joro
No break, no job, no sense-- Joro, Jara, Joro
Tell am to go quench-- Joro, Jara, Joro
No break, no job, no sense-- Joro, Jara, Joro

Go and kill
*[CHORUS] JORO, JARA, JORO *(after each line)
Go and die
Go and quench
Put am for reverse
Go and kill
Go and die
Go and quench *(3x)

Joro, Jara, Joro- O Zombie way na one way (3x)
Joro, Jara, Joro- Ooooh

Attention
*[CHORUS] ZOMBIE *(in time- average every 2-3 words)
Quick march
Slow march
Left turn
Right turn
About turn
Double time
Sa-lute
Open your hat
Stand at ease
Fall in
Fall out
Fall down
Get ready *(2x)

Ha-lt
Or-der *(Repeat 3x from "Attention")

*[CHORUS] ZOMBIE (repeat on ‘1’ of each measure as desired)
Dis-miss

I am approaching this thread in the spirit of “the death of Heroes/Idols” or, perhaps “becoming your own Savior”

“God is a concept, by which we measure our pain….. the dream is over”

"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."

American Ate My Brain II

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