Who's Afraid of John Edwards?

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Postby sijepuis+ » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:58 pm

Chiggerbit:

Of all the leading candidates, which one DO you like, sijepuis+?


The problem is not one of 'like' or of establishing which candidate might best 'serve' the US or the greater world. We can debate the merits of any number of these people until we're blue in the face, but the sad fact of the matter is that it won't make a hoot of difference who is voted into office, in 2008, as the problems facing the US political system are deeply, profoundly structural.

Once there exist corporations whose profits exceed national GDPs, many of which work together in factions busily lobbying Brussels and Washington, it becomes clear that the concept of 'government' has become something of a joke.

Elections are held, today, to maintain the illusion of democracy, while decision-making takes place behind closed doors, laws are written by corporate lawyers, which are then dutifully rubber-stamped by Congresses and Parliaments. US, Europe, Canada, Australia: same thing.

The Industrialized 'West' has undergone a gradual, soft, corporate coup, since ... well it's difficult to put a precise date on it. It began in the late 19th century but I'd say that it was consumated during the Reagan / Thatcher era. What has happened, since, amounts to mere adjustments in the application of a broadly recognized social and economic doctrine.

And here we are, virtually in shackles, discussing the 'policies' of what amount to little more than a selection of future corporate scribes?

.
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:33 pm

Once there exist corporations whose profits exceed national GDPs, many of which work together in factions busily lobbying Brussels and Washington, it becomes clear that the concept of 'government' has become something of a joke.


I wish you could see Edwards' tv ads here in Iowa, sijepuis+. They're the only ones that are anti-corporation, anti-lobby, strongly so. He doesn't pussy-foot around about his position on them. It could be just political posturing, but I don't think so.
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Postby sijepuis+ » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:04 pm

But, Chiggerbit, with all due respect, you're not listening.

Edwards is a creation of the media and special interests. I don't doubt that his Iowa publicity stints are thoroughly convincing. Millions will have been spent in order that the Edwards campaign deliver convincing messages.

My point is that the entire presidential electoral process is a farce.

I wish you could see Edwards' tv ads here in Iowa, sijepuis+. They're the only ones that are anti-corporation, anti-lobby, strongly so. He doesn't pussy-foot around about his position on them. It could be just political posturing, but I don't think so.


Tell me, honestly. How much power do you suppose an Edwards [or Kucinich or other] would have to enact anti-corporation, anti-lobby type legislation?
.
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Postby sunny » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:10 pm

sijepuis+ wrote:Tell me, honestly. How much power do you suppose an Edwards [or Kucinich or other] would have to enact anti-corporation, anti-lobby type legislation?
.


Forget legislation, who is more likely to empower the Justice Dept. to aggressively prosecute corporations, former Bush admin officials, Republican party hacks et al who have systematically dismantled the rule of law in this country for the last seven years?
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:37 pm

Here's a preview of what Hillary's Iraq war agenda is going to look like, as quoted in her Mt. Pleasant, Iowa visit yesterday--it's all the Iraqis fault:

clip
http://www.thehawkeye.com/Story/vote_clinton_122707

"...Both Clintons also touched on the Iraq War, with the senator explaining her plans for a troop withdrawal and stating, as she has time and again, that there is "no military solution."

"The fact is that the Iraqis have failed to do what they have to do," she said, "and they're going to find out there is no more blank check when I am president."
For what was an unequivocal criticism of an allied government, the declaration drew a surprisingly loud round of cheers.

In general, though, enthusiasm at the event did not correspond to the size of the turnout. At least two members of the traveling media commented afterward about the flatness of the crowd..... "
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Postby populistindependent » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:38 pm

chiggerbit wrote:I wish you could see Edwards' tv ads here in Iowa, sijepuis+. They're the only ones that are anti-corporation, anti-lobby, strongly so. He doesn't pussy-foot around about his position on them. It could be just political posturing, but I don't think so.


Thanks for the report.

The arguments about whether or not Edwards is yet another dupe of the evil empire are silly. Of course he is. So are all of us, as far as that goes.
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:44 pm

He may be a dupe, but he's also a quick thinker. The evil empire may have its work cut out for itself trying to stay ahead of Edwards. Those lawyers are tricky, don't you know.
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Postby sijepuis+ » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:09 pm

Forget legislation, who is more likely to empower the Justice Dept. to aggressively prosecute corporations, former Bush admin officials, Republican party hacks et al who have systematically dismantled the rule of law in this country for the last seven years?


Very good question. Do you imagine for a moment that an Edwards, or any other of the candidates, Dem or Repug [doesn't make much difference], will be in a position to challenge the existing stacked courts and power/lobby status quo?
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Postby populistindependent » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:22 pm

sijepuis+ wrote:Very good question. Do you imagine for a moment that an Edwards, or any other of the candidates, Dem or Repug [doesn't make much difference], will be in a position to challenge the existing stacked courts and power/lobby status quo?


I don't. But so what?
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:32 pm

Edwards is a creation of the media and special interests. I don't doubt that his Iowa publicity stints are thoroughly convincing. Millions will have been spent in order that the Edwards campaign deliver convincing messages.


I have to disagree with this on several points, sijepuis+. Firstly, Edwards is not the creation of the media, as the media has been quite clearly pretending that Edwards doesn't exist, referring to the Dem race as being a two-person race--and no, Edwards isn't one of them. He's the bastard child the media doesn't want to acknowledge.

Secondly, I've been a bit upset at how parsimonious Edwards has been with regards to advertising up until the last couple of weeks. I suppose he just doesn't have the money to do differently. He has to be way, way under-spending Hillary, whose ads have been in our faces for months, and now not a half hour goes by without one of her ads, from morning till late night.

I think one of the reasons that Edwards' support here in Iowa has been sinking is due to the tardiness of his advertising. He put too much weight on his face-to-face meetings in communities all over the state. Many people here work, can't attend, so their second source of information about the candidates' positions, unfortunately, is ads.

It's a weird state, hard to explain, but there isn't any real consolidated media market, it's quite regional, fractured into many small markets. I'd say the majority of the people have cable/satellite, but those services generally market national news, not Iowa news. Oddly, much of the local tv news down here is quite unsophisticated, and yet it's not bad quality. I imagine that there are far fewer people on average on the internet, although the ones who are seem to be well-informed, politically.

Oh, and one of the reasons the Des Moines Register, the largest paper in the state, came out for Hillary is because of Edwards' strident tone against corporations and lobbies.

So, although I might agree with your overall assessment, I disagree with the details.
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Postby populistindependent » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:51 pm

sunny wrote:Forget legislation, who is more likely to empower the Justice Dept. to aggressively prosecute corporations, former Bush admin officials, Republican party hacks et al who have systematically dismantled the rule of law in this country for the last seven years?


Whose campaign, whose rhetoric, is most likely to empower - or rally or coalesce or enable - millions of people fighting for justice? That is the best we can ever hope for from a politician.

I wouldn't want a candidate who was going to do it for us. That is not how politics in a democracy works. It is asking for a dictatorship to look at politicians the way that modern people do. If Edwards isn't "the answer," - then what? Do we yearn for a strong man who IS the answer? That is the clear implication in much of the criticism of candidates.

Most of this is up to us, not up to some politician. The power structure takes a lot of work to hold together. The answer is not a counter-program, a new power structure to replace the old. The answer is to look for any cracks in the armor - no matter where they come from or who starts them - and expand and exploit them.

Edwards is a danger to the power structure merely because he is raising issues that are very dangerous to raise, people are hearing those things, and they are thinking. All very dangerous. This has nothing to do with the quality of the candidate, whether he is or is not our savior or "the answer" or any of the rest of that.

There will always be naive people who hero-worship any candidate - can't be helped.

The more fucked up Edwards is as a celebrity, a hero, a guru, a savior, a fearless leader the better.

It reflects a ruling class mentality when people analyze a candidate to decide whether or not he is a "good prince" to rule over us, or to replace the "bad prince" currently in power. Looking at the fucking prince-in-waiting's resume, or character references, or lineage, or whatever is a bunch of aristocratic nonsense.

Overthrowing the ruling class (and if we aren't interested in that, what are we talking about?) is not going to be done by any president or any politician. It is going to be done on the ground, through organizing and building solidarity.

If, on the other hand, our primary interest in social and political issues is to merely have the "right" personal take on everything, the Edwards sucks and so do 99% of our fellow citizens. That is great for starting a religion or an elite social club or for musing about it all in academic circles, but it is pretty lifeless and irrelevant in the real world.

Edwards is saying that the wealthy and powerful few are screwing all of the rest of us over, and that the game is rigged for their benefit at our expense. I can run with that, and unsophisticated non-political and non-intellectual people are hearing that message, incorporating it into their view of the world, are suddenly interested in politics and are questioning everything, and this message will change things no matter what Edwards was, is, or does.

I don't know what the rest of you were waiting to hear, or were hoping to see from a candidate. I was never looking for a knight in shining armor on a white horse myself, and if all we wanted was a candidate to mouth the perfect platform that lined up with our values, we have that in Kucinich. Swell. Terrific. Makes ME feel so good. Nobody listens, but at least my worldview is validated by what Kucinich says, and if it were all about me than yippee let's visualize a world where everyone is like me and can relate to what Kucinich is saying. The world will go to Hell while we are waiting for that to happen, but so what? We are right, and what else matters?

Everyday people are hearing Edwards where they never heard Kucinich. I don't know why and I don't care, and why should anyone give rat's ass about MY personal blah blah beliefs and value systems or what ever?

I care about this - that the people are motiviated and inspired to get the tyrant's boot heel off of their necks.
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Postby sunny » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:41 pm

“Angry John” v. KumbayObama:
Reflections on Iowa, Business Rule, the Democratic Party’s Democratic Disconnect
by Paul Street
December 20, 2007

2008 Iowa Campaign Report

I am surprised at just how angry John (Edwards) has become.

- Chris Dodd, the leading recipient of campaign dollars from the United States insurance industry, November 12, 2007 (Dodd 2007)

John Edwards was our pick for the 2004 nomination. But this is a different race, with different candidates. We too seldom saw the positive, optimistic campaign we found appealing in 2004. His harsh anti-corporate rhetoric would make it difficult to work with the business community to forge change.

- The Editorial Board of the Des Moines Register Star, December 15, 2007

Anyone who thinks that the next president can achieve real change without bitter confrontation is living in a fantasy world. Which brings me to a big worry about Mr. Obama: in an important sense, he has become the anti-change candidate

- Paul Krugman, December 17, 2007

The Democratic candidates – with the exception of John Edwards, who opened his campaign in New Orleans and has made addressing poverty central to his campaign – have virtually ignored the plight of African Americans in this country.

- Jesse Jackson, November 27, 2007

AN IOWA-NATIONAL MEDIA DISCONNECT

For many following the Democratic presidential race in the pivotal early Caucus state of Iowa, there’s a disconcerting disconnect between the reality on the ground and the treatment you see in dominant media. Watching national television and reading national newspapers over recent months, you’d think the Democratic contest was only between the junior senator from Illinois and the junior senator from New York. As far the lords of the political news and commentary manor have been concerned, it’s been all about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama [1]. The rest of the Democratic presidential hopefuls, including even John Edwards, have hardly existed in the ruling coverage.


This has been the case to a shocking degree even when the talking and writing heads have been specifically discussing Iowa, where Edwards is now running ahead of Clinton and Obama (Insider Advantage 2007) [2]. It continues even as focus groups run by CNN and Fox News during the last Democratic presidential debate in Iowa declared Edwards “the clear winner” (Krugman 2007b).

CORPORATE MEDIA LOVES KUMBAY-OBAM-A, FEARS “ANGRY” EDWARDS

There’s nothing mysterious about the fact that Edwards was eclipsed by the BaRockstar as the media’s official anti-Hillary. Part of the spectacularly favorable media attention Obama has gotten throughout the campaign is about race: the “first black president” story is irresistible to reigning news and community authorities. But another and bigger part is about those authorities’ preference for centrist politics over anything that hints of popular struggle against concentrated business power.



“HOPE” as Selling Out

Obama and his vapid staffers prattle on (in the name of “hope”) about and finding (for reasons that are never fully explained) “common ground” with (of all people) Republicans. The senator says he’s against past generations’ terrible legacy of “bitter,” “partisan” and “ideological” dispute (conflict is scary and bad) and that he represents a “different kind of politics” seeking “to get things done” across nasty divisions of culture, region, and party. He claims to represent the glories of an America where hard work is rewarded and anyone who applies themselves and plays by the rules can rise from the bottom (where he supposedly originated) to the top. To reassure white voters and campaign investors that he (like the war criminals Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice) is safe for existing hierarchies of class and (skin) color, the “deeply conservative” [3] Obama brings in the racially accommodationist, mass-consumerist self-help icon and New Age media and marketing mogul Oprah Winfrey to tour with him [4]. “Don’t worry white folks,” Obama and his mass-cultural cross-racial kissing cousin Oprah tell 95 percent Caucasian Iowa. “Barack will help you feel good about your superficial [state-of-mind] non-racism while doing nothing to substantive challenge existing [state-of-being] white-supremacist structures and racial disparities” (See Street 2007a and Street 2007c)

A different “healing” message goes out to the business elite that watches and shapes the campaigns from afar. “Don’t worry, rich folks,” the corporate “player” Obama (Silverstein 2006 and Street 2007b) tells his powerful investor class sponsors behind the scenes, “I will bedazzle and confuse the progressive base, throwing out a few populace-pleasing lines about fighting injustice while advancing the corporate-neoliberal agenda you guys vetted me on before you made me an overnight rock star. You guys can play me and I’ll play the people” (Silverstein 2006 and Street 2007b).

Obama subtly blames ordinary working people and their purported Democratic Party representatives for not mimicking young Oliver Twist by courteously requesting that America’s globally connected economic aristocracy act more responsibly towards its subject homeland citizenry. This is an actual quotation from a speech Obama gave to the masters of “American” (really global) finance capitalism at the Wall Street headquarters of NASDAQ last September: “I believe all of you are as open and willing to listen as anyone else in America. I believe you care about this country and the future we are leaving to the next generation. I believe your work to be a part of building a stronger, more vibrant, and more just America. I think the problem is that no one has asked you to play a part in the project of American renewal” [5].

By contrast, Edwards has been delivering a steady diet of classic, red-hot “populist” orations against business rule. Praising unions and denouncing the grotesque mal-distribution of American wealth and income to an extent that is exceptional among mainstream politicians, Edwards is willing to lose significant corporate sponsorship and media love in his determination to push the “populist” angle. He has made “ending poverty” and fighting economic inequality and corporate domination the cornerstones of his campaign.

“The Choice Between Corporate Power [and Mass Poverty] and Democracy”

“The choice we must make,” Edwards says, “is as important as it is clear. It is a choice between corporate power and the power of democracy. It is a choice between corporate power and the power of democracy. It is caution versus courage. Calculation versus principle. It is the establishment elites versus the American people.” (sonofagun, he's waging class warfare! 'Bout damn time.~sunny)Edwards insists that “big” democratic and progressive change will “never” be attained by “negotiating” with the privileged few and their gigantic corporations. Such change cannot be meaningfully achieved, Edwards argues, by exchanging “corporate Democrats” for “corporate Republicans.” It will only come, Edwards says, by “relentlessly fighting and beating” the big corporations, who have “rigged the game” of U.S. politics and policy across partisan lines (Edwards 2007).

In the place of Obama’s tiresome homilies to shared “empathy” and togetherness across class, party, regional, and other lines, Edwards declares that his mission as president would be to give corporate power “Hell.” He wants to “stand up” to business elites to make policy in accord with a popular consensus that already exists for things like universal health care and “fair trade.” He says it’s a “lie” that “any Democrat is better than any Republican,” arguing that replacing big money “corporate Republicans” with “corporate Democrats” is “just a game of musical chairs.”

His generational narrative is that the next generation of Americans is about to be the first one in American history to be worse off than the previous one. Edwards tells passive Democrats who refuse to struggle against big corporations to “reclaim our democracy” should look their children in the eyes to admit that “you did nothing to stop that.”

Edwards’ autobiographical narrative is that he comes from a rural working-class household and that he’s running for the people who lost their jobs when his father’s textile mill closed. He’s scrapping for working families and the poor against the power the privileged and wealthy few. According to Time Magazine reporter Karen Tumulty (Tumulty 2007):

“Not since Lyndon Johnson and Bobby Kennedy in the 1960s had any Democrat of national stature addressed the subject [of poverty] with the focus that Edwards gave it. He helped start a poverty center at the University of North Carolina, wrote a book about it and, when the time came to launch his next presidential campaign, chose hurricane-ravaged New Orleans as the place to do so. There are differences in style and substance this time around. In his newer, more populist incarnation, Edwards 2.0 has hammered away not only at President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney and the special interests that he says call the shots in Washington but also at front runner Hillary Clinton. At one point, he even refused to say whether he would endorse her if she won the Democratic nomination. ‘I am surprised at just how angry John has become,’ said his former Senate colleague Chris Dodd, another presidential contender.”

According to Jesse Jackson, Sr., “The Democratic candidates – with the exception of John Edwards, who opened his campaign in New Orleans and has made addressing poverty central to his campaign – have virtually ignored the plight of African Americans in this country” (Jackson 2007).

“Kumbaya, My Lord[s]”

The only genuinely Left progressive “in” the race is Kucinich. But for whatever reasons – maybe it really is his working-class upbringing in a rural North Carolina textile mill town – Edwards is noticeably less willing than the famously power-hungry Obama to sell his soul for the presidency (unlike Hillary, Obama may still have one to sell).

On at least one occasion, Edwards has criticized Obama’s bi-/anti-partisan harmony, “consensus,” and compromise themes as singing “Kumbaya.” According to liberal journalist Ryan Lizza late last summer, “Edwards dismisses Obama’s argument that more consensus is needed in Washington. The difference between them, Edwards told me, is the difference between ‘Kumbaya’ and saying, ‘This is a battle. It’s a fight’” (Lizza 2007).

During the final Iowa debate, hosted by the Des Moines Register, Edwards criticized “some people” for “argu[ing] that we’re going to sit at a table with these people” – corporate executives and their top managers – “and they’re going to voluntarily give their power away. I think it is a complete fantasy.” Activists and insiders knew exactly who he meant when he said “some people.” As Paul Krugman notes, “this was pretty clearly a swipe at Mr. Obama, who has repeatedly said that health reform should be negotiated at a ‘big table’ that would include insurance and drug companies” (Krugman 2007b).

“Getting Things Done...With the Business Community"

But corporate media loves “Kumbaya” and hates any remotely honest discussion of class (or race) divisions. It dislikes the labor movement and works to marginalize any political tendencies with the slightest hint of populism. It prefers Obama’s soothing promises to heal America’s supposedly terrible and crippling cultural and partisan (Red v. Blue) divisions over Edwards’ “angry” pledge to do “battle” for the poor and the working-class majority against the wealthy masters of the class-divided (Wealthy v. The People) “two Americas.”

As Krugman (one of the few reasons left to purchase the New York Times anymore) notes, “the news media recoil from populist appeals.” The “mainstream” (corporate) media warms, however, to the “message of reconciliation” peddled and packaged as “HOPE’ by Obama, whose coverage has been considerably “more favorable than that of any other candidate” (Krugman 2007b).

The Des Moines Register, which endorsed Edwards in the 2004 Caucus, has just rejected him for 2008 time on revealing grounds. According to the paper’s editorial board, Edwards’ “harsh anti-corporate rhetoric would make it difficult [for him] to work with the business community to forge change.”

And what sort of “change” does “the business community” wish to “forge?” During the last debate prior to the Iowa Caucus, the Register’s editor Carolyn Washburn suggested that Edwards should be less strident in criticizing big business since wealthy and special interests “are often responsible for getting things done in Washington” (Krugman 2007b).

They most certainly are! Their history of “things” accomplished includes a remarkable and ongoing record of richly government assisted assault on social and environmental health at home and abroad. It includes the construction of a historically unmatched military-industrial complex that starves social expenditures at home and encourages and feeds off recurrent bloody and imperial adventures abroad. It includes the blocking of universal health insurance so that the United States remains what Hendrick Hertzberg calls “the only advanced capitalist democracy on earth that does not guarantee health care to its citizens. We spend twice as much [on health care, P.S.] as the [single-payer] French and Germans and two and a half times as much as the [single-payer] British,” Hertzberg notes, “yet we die sooner [despite greater per capita national wealth, P.S.] and our babies die in greater numbers. Thirty-eight million Americans were uninsured in 2000; now its forty-seven million. Employer-based health insurance is increasingly expensive, stingy, and iffy” (Hertzberg 2007, pp. 37-38).

more at link:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle ... emID=14533
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Postby FourthBase » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:59 pm

Thanks for posting that sunny.
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Postby populistindependent » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:23 pm

sunny wrote:(sonofagun, he's waging class warfare! 'Bout damn time.~sunny)


Hear, hear, sunny.

The truth is that class warfare has been going on all along - the wealthy few have been waging an all-out war on the rest of us. Time we fought back.
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Postby Hugo Farnsworth » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:03 pm

Here we go again with the Democrat "savior" to counter what the bad ol' Republicans have done.

So the political discourse is to pick the correct "savior".

Sheesh, folks, i would think by now we would have a clue.

NO CANDIDATE WORTH P*SSING ON comes from their ranks.

Sigh, we really need a second political party in this country.
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