ESP debunked?

[FourthBase]

WHAT HAPPENED TO $1 TRILLION?

Does anyone here not realize that a missing trillion dollars would likely be going into off-the-book classified projects? Does anyone actually believe that the military just "loses track" of super-sums of money or super-expensive equipment like that? They don't.

From your own link, TKL:

Not all Pentagon waste is visible. Hidden within the military budget is a secret "black budget" that's not subject to any congressional oversight (toothless as that usually is). It includes money for the CIA (tucked away in the Air Force budget, it gets about 10% of the total) and for less well-known but better-funded "intelligence" organizations like the National Security Agency (NSA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO).
In 1995, several members of Congress tried to argue that, with the Cold War over, there was no harm in publishing the total amount of the intelligence black budget, without details on how it was spent. Even this modest proposal went down to defeat but, in the process, led to the absurd spectacle of legislators mentioning the figure-$28 billion for fiscal 1996-while arguing that it shouldn't be publicly disclosed.
John Pike of the Federation of American Scientists estimates that the 1996 black budget included an additional $3 billion or so in military "stealth" projects, for a total of about $31 billion-down from about $36 billion a year during the Reagan years. Pike attributes the decrease to a couple of projects that grew too huge to be hidden in the black budget.
One of the projects that "surfaced" into the public budget is the B-2 bomber. Originally projected to cost $550 million each, B-2's ended up costing $2.2 billion each-literally more than their weight in gold.
Another is MILSTAR, which is designed to ''fight and win a six-month nuclear war...long after the White House and the Pentagon are reduced to rubble." The Air Force has tried to kill this idiotic program four times since it emerged from the black budget, but Congress won't listen. MILSTAR has cost us between $8 and $12 billion so far, and could cost another $4.5 billion between 1996 and 2000.
Since the black budget is completely off the books, it encourages waste on a titanic scale. As one Pentagon employee put it: "In a black project, people don't worry about money. If you need money, you got it. If you screw up and need more, you got it. You're just pouring money into the thing until you get it right. The incentive isn't there to do it right the first time. Who's going to question it?" ...

[theeKultleeder]

A little about the U.S. government's STAR GATE project

In the early 1970's, the CIA decided to fund a small research inquiry into the existence of human "psychic" abilities. Psychic Ingo Swann participated in the first (and other) trials for these studies. Psychic Pat Price joined the trials and eventually serious funding was provided for research.

A search was made for military individuals who might have RV talent, and by 1978 an initial small team of Viewers was formally created to test and do operational viewing, while the science would continue researching how best to support/aid that viewing.

Each year over a 20 year span, funding was renewed based on merit and often demonstration to a confidential congressional subcommittee. Many government, military, industrial and private groups provided funding over that period of time for various reasons.

The program had two primary locations, a small intell unit in Fort Meade MD and a science lab in Palo Alto CA. There were many different names used by agencies and military for the psychic program, some of which are still unknown to the public, many of which are deliberately confused in time, and all of which are now as a conglomerate for the public referred to as STAR GATE.

By 1982, the existing remote viewers had either died or left the unit except one, and in 1984 the sole remaining viewer (who had done the unit’s intell work alone for two years) retired and began working in the science lab for research and any intell targets brought him there. A new crop of viewers, these from Swann’s ‘training’ route instead of the original recruiting methods, were brought into the intell unit mostly from 1985 onward, to continue the work.

Around 1995 the program was handed to the CIA for ‘ownership’. This was for a variety of reasons, one apparently being the diminishing lack of success over time from the intell unit, which had management problems -- as well as other significant issues, many apparently RV-related.

The CIA, having been repeatedly embarrassed by public scandals over the years, had no wish to be ‘caught’ with the ‘psychic’ program. They’d had their budget curtailed that same year. So, they arranged a (mock) scientific trial based on very little data (the researchers (a) didn’t have intell/military clearance for much and (b) were actually told not to look at what little they got--), and the CIA closed the program four months after getting it, taking the funding for the program (which had already been approved) for their own personnel.

The CIA made the existence of the program public and issued a national press release stating that while the subject had been looked into for 20 years, it had never actually demonstrated merit.

Conveniently, nearly all the data evidencing the value of the project in Operations and why it was re-funded 20 years in a row is ‘classified’ from the public. Documents declassified gradually are harmless to this image.

If you count from the inception of the first government remote viewers (not just funded tests, but an formal ongoing ‘project’) to its end, you would probably count from October 1978 to September 1995 (17 years).

-- PJ

http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/faq016.cfm

REMOTE VIEWING. Psychic work in a remote viewing protocool. O, how we love Remote-Viewing! Here you'll find Remoteviewing Archives. Remote Viewer Resources. Psychic / Psi / Viewing How-to. Free remote viewing methods, how to remote view. McMoneagle interviews. Controlled Remote Viewing, yep CRV TRV SRV you name it there's ref. Remote Viewing transcripts and more... This giant site is nothing but free Remote Viewing info, legit remote viewers and more from STAR GATE (or stargate as some put it), remote viewer media and politics, great RV archives with former CIA & DIA remote viewers, since 1995 Firedocs has been online in one form or another

[FourthBase]

Around 1995 the program was handed to the CIA for ‘ownership’. This was for a variety of reasons, one apparently being the diminishing lack of success over time from the intell unit, which had management problems -- as well as other significant issues, many apparently RV-related.

The CIA, having been repeatedly embarrassed by public scandals over the years, had no wish to be ‘caught’ with the ‘psychic’ program. They’d had their budget curtailed that same year. So, they arranged a (mock) scientific trial based on very little data (the researchers (a) didn’t have intell/military clearance for much and (b) were actually told not to look at what little they got--), and the CIA closed the program four months after getting it, taking the funding for the program (which had already been approved) for their own personnel.

Well, this is probably obvious logic: If a program is effective, there's no way the CIA would have closed it because they were averse to being embarrassed by a "psychic" stigma.

The CIA made the existence of the program public and issued a national press release stating that while the subject had been looked into for 20 years, it had never actually demonstrated merit.

Sure.

It had some merit. Whether it was a psi-based merit or a fraud/front-based merit, something kept warranting the funds every year. Something was demonstrated to a "confidential congressional subcommittee". Something was beneficial about it to the "many government, military, industrial and private groups" that provided funds.

Conveniently, nearly all the data evidencing the value of the project in Operations and why it was re-funded 20 years in a row is ‘classified’ from the public. Documents declassified gradually are harmless to this image.

If you count from the inception of the first government remote viewers (not just funded tests, but an formal ongoing ‘project’) to its end, you would probably count from October 1978 to September 1995 (17 years).

Isn't it curious that such a "merit-less" project would be re-funded year after year like that, and then dumped like a bag of trash, publicly acknowledged by a supremely secretive agency only to say it wasn't worth it, but still be mostly classified? Very curious.

Knowing that these two Harvard researchers are well aware of the evidence that stands to counter their assertion that psi phenomena do not exist, it's hard for me to imagine that they would make such an assertion without either 1) being personally convinced that their experiment covers all the bases and finally proves that psi phenomena are an illusion or 2) lying for some reason. If it's 1) then either a) despite their conviction based on the sound science they believe they practiced, they are nevertheless wrong and psi phenomena do exist or b) psi phenomena, in fact, do not exist. If it's 1b) then the military was not conducting the research in psi phenomena they claim they were, and the military psi projects were a front for something else.

I am not averse to the idea that psi phenomena is real. I'm perfectly willing to believe that something like remote viewing is real, and that the military knew it was real when they began researching it, and utilizing it. In that case, option 1a) makes perfect sense. But I'm not ruling out 1b) either. I am extremely unlikely to believe option 2), and if option 3) is "psi phenomena is in fact not real but the military genuinely researched it nevertheless" then I find that the least likely option, because again projects that expensive don't stay alive that long if the basic premise is verifiably untrue.

[theeKultleeder]

Unless you believe FOIA documents are faked and back dated, it appears that they really were working on "psychic spying."


http://www.remoteviewed.com/remote_view ... litary.htm



Stargate is the collective name for advanced psychic functioning or Remote viewing experiments and programs that were undertaken for twenty years to create a trainable, repeatable and if at all possible, accurate method of psychic spying or information gathering.

Worried by the expansion of Russian research into physic functioning in the late 1960's and early 70's, the American intelligence services took the decision to explore psychic functioning. SRI (Stanford Research institute) were contacted and contracted and the rest is now history!

From 1972 - to its disclosure in 1995 the American Intelligence and military machines used and expanded forms of ESP or psychic functioning for intelligence gathering purposes. For over twenty years this program under the code names of;
Scannate, Gondola wish, Sun streak, Center lane, Grill Flame, & Stargate - the collective name by which the entire program is generally now known.

The agencies involved in this twenty year and $20 M program include a huge assortment of spaghetti soup name agencies like: FBI, CIA, DIA, assorted military and government departments and agencies, many leading science labs and probably many others with names that cant be mentioned by a few select individuals.

In 1994/1995 when key players started to leave their military/intelligence services behind and with the enquiring media starting to encroach into until then 'Secret' realms of psychic spying, decisions were taken to publicially validate the Stargate program for its accuracy of data and efficiency - hence to sanitize and clean the entire Star gate records for all those involved in-light of the looming media disclosure. After all no-one wants to be associated with large dollar spending on psychic programs that don't work! - do they?

Within this site I have and continue to post the more interesting and useful STARGATE documents released through the FOIA from the CIA. I have picked out papers, documents and when I can, sessions that can be used by the remote viewing community and people learning to be better viewers.

There are many documents and remote viewing sessions within the FOIA archives that don’t show the actual target, therefore although good for a typical remote viewing method and format example, these have no use in showing the accuracy of the session - these I have not included.

[theeKultleeder]

You'll have to scroll down the page to find this. It's a fascinating PDF of an SRI document. It mentions Chinese experiments.

http://www.remoteviewed.com/remote_view ... litary.htm


"We have attempted to assess the possibility of constructing an intrusion detector that would be sensitive to remote viewing (RV) of facilities". WOW now this is unreal.. I just couldn't wait so had to get this up...

1.15 mb .pdf file - right click to 'save as' OR it will just open!

[FourthBase]

After all no-one wants to be associated with large dollar spending on psychic programs that don't work! - do they?

But, even if it worked...discrediting it as worthless would make sense.

[theeKultleeder]

The accuracy rates aren't all that great. There are metaphysical reasons for this, IMO, and some of the RV protocols address some of this. Like "analytical overlay": that's the conscious mind or ego-awareness imposing it's own designs on the subconscious impressions. Time is a big factor, too. Remote Viewers can have difficulty in pinpointing the time from which their impressions are coming from; it could be the past, present, or future - or even a possible future.

If you look at the history of psychic development, which is really very old, it's always in the context of spiritual development. Yogis and meditators and whatnot develop these skills as a side effect in their practice. My feeling is that it would be pretty hard to develop spiritually when you are whoring your mind out to the DIA, etc.

I enjoyed listening to this Coast to Coast show last year:

Psychic Detectives

Kelly Snyder of Find Me discussed how his group of 32 psychics & experts assists law enforcement and families in locating missing people. The organization was formed out of frustration because a lot of cases involving missing kids weren't being looked at, he explained. The team of psychics, who are vetted during a one-year probationary period, are all given the same basic information about a case and then work separately on their impressions.

Three of the team members joined the show during the evening to share their process. Forensic astrologer Dave Campbell said he gathers his data through an astrological crime scene chart that he devises based on the start time of the incident. He then combines this information with perceptions he receives as a medium.

Spiritual teacher Sunny Dawn Johnston uses meditation to tune in to the energy of the deceased or missing person, and sometimes incorporates cards or a pendulum to fine tune a location. As a clairsentient, she experiences empathically what may have taken place during a crime.

Search & Rescue facilitator Kristi Smith talked about her work training dogs to locate people through scent. Canines can provide closure, either eliminating a place, or finding a body in a given location, she noted.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2007/08/20.html

http://www.findme2.com/

[FourthBase]

The accuracy rates aren't all that great.

Depends on the purpose, right? If the purpose is to demonstrate that a real psi phenomenon exists at all, then the rates only have to be substantially better than chance. If the purpose is to utilize the psi phenomenon for high stakes intelligence work, then the rates had better be very accurate.

[Iroquois]

...not necessarily. I do not believe intelligence has to be accurate to be of value. But, it helps immensely for the level of accuracy of the information to be accurately known.

[FourthBase]

...not necessarily. I do not believe intelligence has to be accurate to be of value. But, it helps immensely for the level of accuracy of the information to be accurately known.

True, I guess. If RV can provide an intel agency even a 5% improvement in forecasting or whatever, a 5% they couldn't achieve with any other method, then they wouldn't turn it down just because it's not a 50% improvement. Every little edge counts.

[FourthBase]

I overlooked this part of the article:

Moulton said he was initially inspired by research he conducted for his senior thesis, which demonstrated that brain activity is affected by previous exposure, even when this exposure is subconscious.

http://harvardscience.harvard.edu/medic ... lter-brain

"Hypnosis has a contentious history," notes Stephen Kosslyn, professor of psychology at Harvard and leader of a study in which people were hypnotized to see color where only shades of gray exist, and to see gray when actually looking at brightly colored rectangles. "Some insist it's a state of mind that differs from normal states and involves unique consequences; others say it's nothing more than state-show gimmickry. It all comes down to the question of whether the brain is doing something different." The answer apparently is yes, at least in the case of color perception. "What we have shown for the first time," Kosslyn concludes, "is that hypnosis changes conscious experience in a way not possible when we are not under hypnosis."

[John E. Nemo]

I can't see gravitons.
Crazy people called scientists tell me they exist, but can't prove that they
do.

Therefore, gravity is a lie.

[FourthBase]

Yeah, did we discuss the actual science of the experiment? Why would they expect the ESP and non-ESP stimuli to excite markedly different brain activity?

[Penguin]

Indeed. These two questions, Nemo and Fourth, point out the flaw and blind spot of the study is obvious when you consider this.
If they cant explain this assumption, Id have to consider the study quite worthless.

[FourthBase]

Well, if anyone cares I'll probably be seeing this dude at some point in the next few months, or at least his bro, so while I pretty much know what to ask him, I'll take suggestions, too.

What's funny is that the most memorable thing to me about Sam involves a paranormal moment of sorts, paranormal to me anyway. After a party, a few of us started an impromptu wiffleball game in the parking lot and each person got several pitches to hit. The girls sucked but one of them made good contact at least. I was hitting ropes but anything I lifted was a weak popup. Nobody had really smashed the ball. Sam was in a hurry to leave and he took a few last swings, hitting a couple grounders. Okay, one final swing. Wham. Dude crushed a wiffleball harder than I've ever seen in my life, and I've played hundreds and hundreds of wiffleball games in my life. It sounds really stupid, mundane. But I guess you had to be there. It was a magical moment. At the time I hardly knew about his ESP research, and I cheekily thought to myself something like, "This guy has secretly figured out telekinesis in a lab and just used mind power to hit a monstrous wiffleball home run."