Fourth Base: when I say "automatic believers" it's because I deeply care about getting the facts correct, especially in this subject matter because it's one that I feel that I can contribute to and also that some of these threads are basically accusing the people that make or market the film of having really evil intentions. I think getting the facts right is important because if there is duplicitous intent going on, it needs to be exposed. If there is a mass psyop Hollywood campaign then I want to know about it, examine the proof for myself and lend my voice to exposing it. Just the same if there isn't a psyop, either with a specific person or film or overall with regards to the industry, then I also believe it's important to have that portion of Hugh's claim proved to be false so he can move on to finding other, possibly better examples and avoiding any possible smear for a film's creators. The context is important and getting the facts right are moreso; if I don't point out that it's incorrect to say that there are no female military characters in "Cloverfield" someone else will. Facts are important if Hugh's overall theory is correct because if weaknesses are found in the structure, other much better critics than I will erode his foundation. The stronger his case is, the better it is, isn't it? And if he's wrong, again, either on a specific case or overall, then the result is the same too, that the truth wins out.
Hugh: I'm not making any phone calls. We've talked in the past about your theories about certain films and I've offered my defense of them. I've also offered counter examples of Hollywood films that I think wouldn't exist if your psyop was as big and established as you believe. And right now I am more frustrated at continuing the discussion than would benefit from me debating or introducing new claims or examples. Why don't you make the calls and talk to these people? You could always put what you have towards writing a book about your beliefs and in it you could have interviews with the creators and owners of these films. Present the evidence and testimony and leave it to the readers to make their own decision.
Winston Smith: Thank you. A couple of times I started to write a goodbye post and I stopped myself because I hate those things; they're designed solely for one purpose and that's to play the part of a mean little kid that gathers up his toys and goes home. But I'm also a human being and I realize that I may be getting too defensive because it's an area that I care deeply about and see many good things in -- that's why I chose this name to use on here, as you wisely inferred with your picture. Maybe taking a break is a better idea if it ever comes to that point. But I wanted you to know that it picked me up a bit to read your words and appreciation.
IanEye: your words do a better job of communicating the anger that I have been feeling. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, and the discussion on here runs dark and deep, but to label so many filmmakers as in on some gigantic conspiracy either partially or in full is insulting to the work of artists, craftspeople and even the marketing people that sell the product. Movies and filmmakers are an easy target to take a punch at because it's hard to feel bad for big business or people who make a very successful living doing something that most people think is glamorous and fun. Thank you for trying to show that even as anonymous masks on a message board our words have a power to each other and the strangers we talk about.
Hilda: Yes, if you blink you miss the female military character in "Cloverfield" but she is still there. And I didn't infer that she was taking Marlena away to be shot; there were no guns or guardsmen leading Marlena away. I'm left with the assumption that they knew what was about to happen and it was going to be a terrible thing, to paraphase what Hud said. I also don't believe that this is a good recruiting movie. The Army is shown ineffective in dealing with the Cloverfield monster. We even see Army men die from the first parasite attack and they have guns while Rob and Marlena manage to kill one of these things each. If anything that's inferring Gen Y is capable of dealing with a monster invasion while the Army isn't. In any case, if a 30-story monster showed up in Manhattan I believe the military would also soon arrive on the scene, so it's not like it was a surprise to not see them involved with the drama.
Pan: Thanks for backing me and the world of movies up and seeing the positive nature of the medium (even in a giant monster movie, and I do believe that it exists in such a picture.)
Uncle Scam: instead of labeling me as a bully, back Hugh up by offering supporting evidence. What's the point to your post, I'm supposed to feel like dirt or that Hugh should have free reign to drop the movie psyop angle into every thread he participates in? Do you think it was appropriate to hijack the Karala red rain thread the way he did? I don't and I think Jeff was 100% right in asking Hugh to stop it. And if another prolific poster on here kept injecting the same angle into different threads, trying to find links to their theory, I'd expect Jeff to do the same again regardless of who it is.
