'Illuminati' as 'deviant adepts'

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Postby lunarose » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:42 pm

4b

can you think of a practical way in which to implement full disclosure, of everything, everybody, everywhere? so what if the gov./elite discloses ALL - they have the most heinous military resources at their disposal, they can enforce whatever they want, no matter who knows. only ~30% of the u.s. agrees with iraq, has that stopped the carnage? all type of info came out about how fucked up things were happening during Katrina - what do you think it changed? i'll tell you what it changed, now you have a whole lot more people buying into 'let's privatize everything, since the government can't do anything right.'

you're offering a counsel of perfection, the only result of which will be to further disempower the already disempowered.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:42 pm

The notion that humans have substantially more "loosh" than other sentient mammals, enough to make what must be a much more difficult quarry (must be harder to leech off a more complex and willful consciousness) worth it, strikes me as absurd.
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Postby jingofever » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:54 pm

FourthBase wrote:
IanEye wrote:"Can you conceive of anything wrong with full disclosure?" - Paul from Boston


Fixed.


Hmmm... Paul, from Boston, likes to masturbate to Tom Brady? There is no reason you should be taking more shots than Garnett.
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Re: cross pollinating

Postby Jeff » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:55 pm

annie aronburg wrote:
There is a special "energy" called "loosh" which is precious and wanted by some somewhere. One of them who collect this energy created a place to grow this energy: The earth. The evolution that has taken place on earth is just modifications this creator did to get more and higher quality of loosh. This was provided by animals who are fighting, during a fight for life, and when ending a life span, loosh can be harvested. But the most loosh can be gotten from the humans; the creator had implanted a part of his own into these humans. When they have feelings like lonelyness, desire, parent's love, grief etc., the highest quality distillated loosh can be harvested, which is by far better than any other raw loosh.


Or, in other words, "I want my garmonbozia."

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Postby Jeff » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:59 pm

FourthBase wrote:The notion that humans have substantially more "loosh" than other sentient mammals, enough to make what must be a much more difficult quarry (must be harder to leech off a more complex and willful consciousness) worth it, strikes me as absurd.


But I think it makes a religious sense. And I think, ultimately, that's where these discussions have to go.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:01 pm

lunarose wrote:4b

can you think of a practical way in which to implement full disclosure, of everything, everybody, everywhere? so what if the gov./elite discloses ALL - they have the most heinous military resources at their disposal, they can enforce whatever they want, no matter who knows. only ~30% of the u.s. agrees with iraq, has that stopped the carnage? all type of info came out about how fucked up things were happening during Katrina - what do you think it changed? i'll tell you what it changed, now you have a whole lot more people buying into 'let's privatize everything, since the government can't do anything right.'

you're offering a counsel of perfection, the only result of which will be to further disempower the already disempowered.


Despite the "disapproval" of the majority of people and the half-damning info they occasionally flash us like street pervs, the real dirt is still mostly concealed and even when revealed, it's compartmentalized, and the half-dirt is effectively fake dirt which they exploit to further their agenda even more. The real dirt would compel even a listless oversatiated nation of TV addicts to revolt. What do you think this board is about, part of it anyway? Figuring out the real dirt. Intuiting it. Rigorously. Some of the real dirt is floating out there like dust and sunk into the seams like grime, and it's people like 8bitagent who are meticulously gathering that dust and grime together to create a faint-and-blurry-but-visible big picture.

Trust me, if the perps had to abide by full disclosure, it would end them. It's a numbers game, we still outnumber them millions-to-one, and they are still forced to derive their power from the consent of us, the people. Were everything fully disclosed and were they to still attempt what they get away with now, people would rise up, and they would have to resort to tactics that would destabilize the very economy that makes them fat and safe, crack the veneer which keeps them in power. The consumer economy has made them immensely rich and powerful, but it is still precarious, depending on such a thing as emotion, which they are still desperate to control. If they fuck up that precarious balance, they're fucked. The economy they designed to trap us...perhaps it has trapped them, too. In a good way. For the near future, anyway. They might be devising failsafes as we speak.

As for practicality...citizens are asked to disclose more and more, live under more and more scrutiny...and it doesn't make sense philosophically, politically, logically. The more power one has, the greater the responsibility exists to disclose. That principle, if followed faithfully, would ensure that the Age of Full Disclosure would start from the top down, not bottom up. Theoretically, anyway. That's one practical idea...in theory.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:06 pm

jingofever wrote:
FourthBase wrote:
IanEye wrote:"Can you conceive of anything wrong with full disclosure?" - Paul from Boston


Fixed.


Hmmm... Paul, from Boston, likes to masturbate to Tom Brady? There is no reason you should be taking more shots than Garnett.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No way!

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Antoine was the gay one.

(BTW, once. I needed to visualize what makes all the women I know -- fiery independent bohemian women -- swoon over him. And oh yeah, I never said what I visualized...I visualized him banging my ex-girlfriend, not me! :wink: )
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Postby teamdaemon » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:56 pm

Today, in this world, there is nowhere "away from the prying eyes and ears of the elites", if they are determined enough, if you are seditious enough. Secrecy, ultimately, confers zero advantage today to anyone whose secrets are not protected and enforced by the elite's own safeguards (i.e., through the clearinghouses like secret societies and intelligence agencies), secrecy is not only useless but counter-productive to anyone whose secrets are not the very same as the elite's, to anyone who is not an elite.


I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. You might consider us an "elite" community, but we are not fucking children. We are mostly interested in not going to jail for 10 or 20 or 30 years, and that's why we are secretive.[/quote]
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:28 pm

Well, I should concede that I vastly overstated what I probably meant, as I often do. Being secretive about, say, illicit behavior that really has no business being illicit...that's a good thing. Then again, hypothetically, if a community of people are avid pot-smokers...that's a secret the elite doesn't really give a shit about, save for the random bust or pretext for another reason they want to take you out. And yet, even there...if all the people in Boston (where about half of all people between the ages of 18-35 smoke pot) were to have a non-anonymous puff parade the size of a Sox rolling rally...(rolling rally!)...it would mean a lot more than an anonymous one, and it would mean 1000x more than the feeble one-off doobie dog run on April 20th. Anonymity is a short term necessity, but ultimately it's a cage which helps the authoritarians control us. The numbers are there to expose and publicly undermine the fraud which is anti-marijuana law. Among other frauds.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:56 pm

FourthBase wrote:How are they enlightened? Not to brag, but I can't actually conceive of anyone being much more enlightened than, say, me. And I'm not that enlightened.


Maybe you should meditate on that comment. :P

Seriously tho,

Some people just have this vibe. There was one I was gonna link to, but his website has disappeared. He is the Phillipino tribal leader I go on about.

I guess they are among the most peaceful people I have met, despite a world full of bullshit they have had to deal with. They are committed to their individual activism, although they don't define themselves by it. I guess you could describe that as acting without the desire for an outcoome, but with total commitment to their actions.

They are really nice people to be around, and they seem to have this amazing ability to open their hearts to people, even people they have just met.

They are also repulsed by violence.

My brother met one person like this, and my bro claims that this person was so repulsed by violence he could feel it coming several hours beforehand. It made him ill. (Not my bro the other guy). That wasn't violence directed at the enlightened inividual either, just violence in the place said enlightened individual was in.

The people I have met have never had a reaction like that, but then we have never been in a situation where violence occurred afterward.

These people have come from all works of life. Some are white Australians with jobs in offices, some are blackfellas, some are neither. There is nothing I would say that unites them except that they are enlightened.

I used to think I was enlightened but having met these people I realise I was just full of shit.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:05 pm

They are really nice people to be around, and they seem to have this amazing ability to open their hearts to people, even people they have just met.


My brother met one person like this, and my bro claims that this person was so repulsed by violence he could feel it coming several hours beforehand. It made him ill. (Not my bro the other guy). That wasn't violence directed at the enlightened inividual either, just violence in the place said enlightened individual was in.


Okay, I'm definitely not that enlightened.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:00 pm

No me either.
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Postby Sounder » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:30 am

This Gnostic take on the Illuminati sounds similar too material in a War in Heaven link that yathrib posted in another thread. http://www.zeitlin.net/EndEnchantment/WarInHeaven.html

In this material the Invisible College is determined to counter the programming of the Theocrats. Well, I do not like Theocrats so it is easy to be taken in by (my own) confirmation bias. I do however enjoy social cohesion, and the ‘common doctrine’, whatever other evils it contains does contribute to this.

Everybody frames their argument to prove that they are good and evil is contained within ‘The illuminati’, or Patriarchy, or Gaia, or Theocracy or technology or whatever. So nice that all these categories are seen from the inside as being ‘good’, yet when seen from the outside they are often taken as being ‘evil’. How about we apply our discrimination to look for the negative element within our own pretences, and (gasp) look for the positive element (information) within the category that you do not naturally resonate with.


For John E Nemo,

Quoting from; God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism by Abraham Joshua Heschel

Pg 336,
“Halacha represents the strength to shape one’s life according to a fixed pattern; it is a form-giving force. Agada is the expression of man’s ceaseless striving which often defies all limitations. Halacha is the rationalization and schematization of living; it defines. specifies, sets measure and limit, placing life into an exact system. Agada deals with man’s ineffable relations to God, to other men, and to the world. Halacha deals with the details, with each commandment separately; agada with the whole of life, with the totality of religious life. Halacha deals with the law; agada with the meaning of the law. Halacha deals with subjects that can be expressed literally; agada introduces us to a realm which lies beyond the range of expression. Halacha teaches us how to perforn common acts; agada tells us how to participate in the eternal drama. Halacha gives us knowledge; agada gives us aspiration.”

I am not a Jew or religious, yet this is still my favorite book.

Here are occultic secrets hidden in plain view. Negative relations between order and liberty create problems (profits), while positive relation’s only produces happiness and contentment.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:56 pm

There are no absolutes.

"Hey, I'm more enlightened than you!"

"Cool. Walk on water, then."

It's just a fact that a person can hook into something that seems so really-real. Like talking to dead ancestors... so how is that? Do they really live on in heaven or hades and wait around for flowers on their graves? (Oh, thank-you). Or is it something else - maybe "Time is a lie." That is, our linear perception is part of a fundamental cognitive illusion.

See? I'm just hinting at something, there. Always hints. In my own philosophical musings I'm constantly hinting that it's all made up. It's not supposed to make sense, cuz it's always only the sense the subject makes of it.

Anyway - Jack Chick is right! Role-playing games are covert training programs for occultic development. There was some esalen-type work done with people who were put into altered states en masse, and set up to meet in a dream world... ("a" dream world). They also set up all types of inner initiatic journeys. Good stuff. I forget the name of the book. Every chapter ended with WAKE UP in case the reader went into trance while reading.

My point is that some RPG's are set up the same way. "Self-secrets" are folded up within themselves in plain sight. It's always only the sense the subject makes of it.


The basic premise of Mage: The Ascension is that everyone has the capacity, at some level, to shape reality. This capacity, personified as a mysterious alter-ego called the Avatar, is dormant in most people, who are known as sleepers, whereas Mages (and/or their Avatars) are said to be Awakened. Because they're awakened, Mages can consciously affect changes to reality via willpower, beliefs, and specific magical techniques.

The beliefs and techniques of Mages vary enormously, and the ability to alter reality can only exist in the context of a coherent system of belief and technique, called a paradigm. A paradigm organizes a Mage's understanding of reality, how the universe works, and what things mean. It also provides the Mage with an understanding of how to change reality, through specific magical techniques...

In the Mage setting, everyday reality is governed by commonsense rules derived from the collective beliefs of sleepers. This is called the consensus. Most Mages' paradigms differ substantially from the consensus. When a mage performs an act of magic that does not seriously violate this commonsense version of reality, in game terms this is called coincidental magic. Magic that deviates wildly from consensus is called vulgar magic. When it is performed ineptly, or is vulgar, and especially if it is vulgar and witnessed by sleepers, magic can cause Paradox, a phenomenon in which reality tries to resolve contradictions between the consensus and the Mage's efforts...

In Mage, there is an underlying framework to reality called the Tapestry. The Tapestry is naturally divided into various sections, including the physical realm and various levels of the spirit world, or Umbra. At the most basic level, the Tapestry is composed of something called Quintessence, the essence of magic and what is real, in game terms. Quintessence can have distinctive characteristics, called resonance, which are broken down into three categories: dynamic, static, and entropic...

In the game, Mages have always existed, though there are legends of the Pure Ones who were shards of the original, divine One. Early mages cultivated their magical beliefs alone or in small groups, generally conforming to and influencing the belief systems of their societies...

Seeing their chance, mages who believed in proto-scientific theories banded together under the banner of the Order of Reason, declaring their aim was to create a safe world with Man as its ruler. They won the support of Sleepers by developing the useful arts of manufacturing, economy, wayfaring and medicine. They also championed many of the values that we now associate with the Renaissance. Masses of Sleepers embraced the gifts of early Technology and the Science that accompanied them. As the masses' beliefs shifted, the Consensus changed and wizards began to lose their position as their power and influence waned.

This was intentional. The Order of Reason perceived a safe world as one devoid of heretical beliefs, ungodly practices and supernatural creatures preying upon humanity. As the defenders of the common folk, they intended to replace the dominant magical groups with a society of philosopher-scientists as shepherds, protecting and guiding humanity. In response, non-scientific mages banded together to form the Council of Nine Traditions where mages of all the major magical paths gathered...

As more and more sleepers began to use the Order's discoveries in their everyday lives, Reason and rationality came to govern their beliefs, and the old ways came to be regarded as misguided superstition. However, The Order of Reason became less and less focused on improving the daily lives of sleepers and more concerned with eliminating any resistance to their chokehold on the minds of humanity. Ever since a reorganization performed under Queen Victoria in the late 1800s, they call themselves The Technocracy...

The metaplot of the game involves a four-way struggle between the technological and authoritarian Technocracy, the insane Marauders, the cosmically evil Nephandi and the nine mystical Traditions (that tread the middle path), to which the player characters are assumed to belong. (This struggle has in every edition of the game been characterized both as primarily a covert, violent war directly between factions, and primarily as an effort to sway the imaginations and beliefs of sleepers.)

Mages divide themselves according to their cultures, beliefs and even historical accidents or arbitrary alliances. The primary groups include:

[edit] Council of Nine Mystic Traditions

* Traditions
o Akashic Brotherhood
o Celestial Chorus
o Cult of Ecstasy
o Dreamspeakers
o Euthanatos
o Order of Hermes
o Sons of Ether
o Verbena
o Virtual Adepts

[edit] The Technocratic Union

* Technocracy
o Iteration X
o Progenitors
o The New World Order
o The Syndicate
o The Void Engineers

[edit] Others

* Crafts
* Marauders
* Nephandi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage:_The_Ascension


I for one, would hate to see a truly technocratic or scientific technology able to harness human spiritual abilities. Thank Chaos the mind is so slippery in the lab.

Mages ‘awaken’ to the ways of magic. The setting states that it is unclear whether this is mostly accidental or as a result of a person's nature or understanding. The process of awakening can be slow or fast, but there are two major ways in which the event may manifest: the Mystery Play and the Astral Journey. In both sorts of ‘awakenings’, the mage-to-be goes on a journey that culminates with them arriving at or in their respective Tower and inscribing their name upon it.

The Mystery Play is a waking dream, where the magical symbolism of their awakening is overlaid on top of the ‘real’ world. Other people, places and real world events mesh together until the Mage arrives at a skyscraper, a phone booth, a grove or some other place that represents their Tower and somehow write their name in both the physical and real setting, such as a hotel ledger or a statue's plaque.

Astral Journeys, which occur when the potential mage dreams, are common to those who deny or resist the ‘awakening’. Astral Journeys feature strange settings, objects and people, in a full sensory experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage:_The_Awakening
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Re: 'Illuminati' as 'deviant adepts'

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:35 pm

bump
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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