If David Icke's "reptilian humanoid" routine is a

[Joe Hillshoist]

Good points, J. Apartheid apologist? Sheesh.

Anyway, the real point of this thread is the question of whether Icke is guilty of what he accuses others of doing. If it's a metaphor (and it is, unless proof is provided, which it's not) then he's constructing and exploiting a belief system to spread propaganda. It doesn't matter if he believes it -- a lot of tyrants, cult leaders and scam artists believe their own bullshit. Also, I think the point about the V television series is a good thing to bring up, because it reminds me of Al Bielek and the whole Philadelphia Experiment film angle (*spits on Charles Berlitz's grave*) that he's gone and grafted into the "Montauk Project" mythos.

But, I do have compassion and not just bile. I don't like feeling pity for people, and that's what I feel for Icke, Bielek, et al.

It appears that way. Funnily enough the name Credo Mutwa turns up in another RI related situation, tho one thats a bit more macabre than David Icke.

A seth efricen shaman/witch doctor/whatever was interviewed by police in an investigation into the possible trafficking of African kids for occult sacrifice, one that came about after a childs body parts were found in the Thames.

I think...

The details are a bit hazy at the moment, I can't remember them but the Brits among us might.

Anyway they interviewed a Credo Mutwa - asking for info, not out of suspician. I think that Credo Mutwa was a woman, and the photo I saw didn't look like Icke's mutwa, but I could be wrong about that. I may have misinterpreted the whole thing, so don't take my word for it. It may actually be that Mutwa and I just fucked the whole thing up.

Furthermore I think Credo Mutwa is a generic name for people who fill that role, a title of sorts. Thats the impression I got from what I read about the story above. But as I said my memory ain't as good as I think it is, and I may have misinterpreted the whole thing anyway - I can't find any other refs to Credo Mutwa being a title or generic name people assume.

I agree that if Icke's using it as a metaphor he's doing a shit job and puts himself in the same boat as people he criticises. But hypocricy isn't that high on my list of evils. Cutting up kids for use in occult rituals and to use their remains as magical fetishes is tho.

And to be honest i dunno if Icke is a believer himself or not. I think teamdaemon is right about about ayahuasca, and so possibly he does.

But he does seem to have a healthy sense of humour...

I dunno.

I also wonder at how many times conspiracy nuts turn some old popculture success into their pet theory/cause. BTW someone I used to know online was highly sus on Al Bielek for some reason. I can't remember what but remeber trusting their judgement.

[philipacentaur]

I agree that if Icke's using it as a metaphor he's doing a shit job and puts himself in the same boat as people he criticises.

Thank you. I didn't want that point to be lost in all the noise.

Cutting up kids for use in occult rituals and to use their remains as magical fetishes is tho.

Agreed. That's decidedly worse than hypocrisy, though I don't really give a shit what they do with the body parts, nor do I care for what purpose the crime was perpetrated. After the killing is done, what's that point? It's too late then.

Now that you mention that thing about "Credo Mutwa," a faint bell is ringing in my memory, but I can't turn up anything regarding the title aspect of "Credo Mutwa."

Personally, I find Icke's sense of humor sort of embarrassing, but at least he has one.

[orz]

It seems like the deeper you go down the rabbit hole you will eventually come across David Icke.

Seems to me like he's just sitting outside by the entrance to the warren.

[brainpanhandler]

FWIW...I believe that Icke and Credo Mutwa and other reptilian conspiracy advocates are not speaking metaphorically. Icke may or may not believe this stuff, but he definitely presents it as if it is a reality, as if there really are shape shifting reptilians from Niribu in our midst, controlling events and interbreeding with illuminati bloodlines. For the record... the whole kit-n-kaboodle is bat shit crazy. I could not sit through the Mutwa videos put out by Icke.

A google search for the terms Credo Mutwa Etymology does not turn up a whole lot and I don't know a damn thing about african languages so any research on the terms is rather laborious. I did find the following:

Credo in dutch means creed. Credo in latin means trust in, commit, rely on, think, trust.

Mutwa in a number of southern African languages in the region Credo is from (Ndali, Ndari, Pangwa, Ndamba) means chief or king. In Kisi (An African language of the Bantu family spoken in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone) it means Good. Interestingly the term mutwa in manda (1.a Dravidian language of southern India. 2.an aboriginal language of Australia.) also means chief or king. http://www.websters-online-dictionary.o ... tion/mutwa

It seems likely that credo mutwa translates roughly as "formal statement of religious teachings/faith" and "chief. Presumably when put together Credo Mutwa then becomes the chief teacher of the faith, which seems to make sense.

The only "proof" that Icke seems to offer is that stories of reptilians pop up all over the globe in different places and times. How can this be? he asks unless there is some truth to these stories. I guess he has not read The Dragons of Eden by Sagan. Sagan argues that our almost universal fear of reptiles is a hardwired instinctual artifact from our distant evolutionary past. Nor has Icke discovered the concept of Jungian Archetypes.

Intuition is the noun. Rigorous is the modifying adjective.

Intuition is a faculty we could argue about until the end of time, but I would say at least that intuition is not unstructured by experience and does not spring into existence ex nihilo. So far as RI is concerned it seems to me that the Rigorous modifier needs to predominate, as in scrupulously and strictly accurate. What's so hard about saying only that which the evidence allows one to say and prefacing anything else as conjecture?

[Joe Hillshoist]

I did some digging into the cse in londn, known as the "Adam" case, and I think they Scotland Yard detectives actually went and saw Credo Mutwa of Icke fame, no one else.

I haven't read Dragons of Eden, but I am aware of an awful lot of reptillian lore from around the world.

I live in a house thats been colonised by foot long skinks, and they won't go away. They are called Major Skinks. They appeared after a mushroom trip. I saw little lizard things everywhere. They seemed to be the spaces between the pieces in the jigsaw that was my view of reality.

Next day after I came down these goddamn lizards started appearing in the house. Another time while tripping I have seen what looked like humungous snakes, everywhere on the ground. The all led to peoples feet, and were stretched out behind them, people were leaving these trails the way snails do. They were everywhere.

Funnily enough there are times I have been able to use that. For some reason I can visualise the trail of someone I want to find and find them. I noticed it was working in Melbourne over christmas. Its not an easy thing to do and it doesn't always work. I haven't had mushrooms for years and hadn't over Chrissie so that isn't why I still thm.

The rainbow serpent created the world according to most (if not all) mobs of blackfellas. Although snakes are fearful creatures in their cultures that is no surprise. This country has most of the worlds deadliest snakes. But the rainbow serpent is not looked upon as an evil force, a powerful one worthy of respect and capable of punishing people who deserve it.

There is also an underworld snake. A real nasty piece of work. Like the rainbow serpents evil twin or counterpart.

Where I live the local people have a story about a goanna and a snake that fought and created this part of the world. The goanna won, and chased the snake off. It left the coast at Evans Head and headed out into the Pacific. The goanna was wounded and died on the coast. Its body formed the aptly named Goanna Headland. Which looks like, thats right, a parrot.

No a goanna actually.

Where the animal was wounded there is a deposit of red ochre.

I have a fiend who is a cheif with a shamanic role, of a tribe in the Philipines. His final ordeal was to wait at a creekside, and sleep the night there. A giant python is supposed to crawl over him, or any potential candidate for the office, and kill them if their heart isn't pure or whatever.

He said feeling that snake crawl over him was the scariest event in his life.

I could go on.

Deep down I think Icke is taking the piss. But at the same time i think he feels his schtick has a life of its own and possibly wonders if it might all be true.

Of course he could just be off his head.

BTW Thanks for doing that etymological thing BPH. I dunno if it was worth it or not, cos right now I am struggling to remember where I got those ideas from, re Credo Mutwa being a generic name and all that. Looking into it since this arv, when I brought that up, I'm starting to wonder whatever got those ideas into my head.

BTW One small nitpick. If you are gonna attribute something to an aboriginal language, can you name the language, or the tribal group or whatever. Saying an aboriginal language is like saying a european language. it could be anything. There are 600 language groups from pre invasion Australia, and they are not all as similar as you might think they could be. If your source doesn't mention it I know there's nothing that you can do, but if it does it would be helpful.

There are various connections between some aboriginal australian groups and india, but, as I said theres alot of groups, and names would help narrow it down.

[brainpanhandler]

"Interestingly the term mutwa in manda (1.a Dravidian language of southern India. 2.an aboriginal language of Australia.) also means chief or king."

I got this from http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Manda and http://www.websters-online-dictionary.o ... tion/mutwa

Joe, you certainly do have a lot of interesting stories.

[IanEye]

Next day after I came down these goddamn lizards started appearing in the house. Another time while tripping I have seen what looked like humungous snakes, everywhere on the ground. They all led to peoples feet, and were stretched out behind them, people were leaving these trails the way snails do. They were everywhere.

Funnily enough there are times I have been able to use that. For some reason I can visualise the trail of someone I want to find and find them. I noticed it was working in Melbourne over christmas. Its not an easy thing to do and it doesn't always work.

Joe, what you describe in terms of "trails" reminds me of the costume party scene in "Donnie Darko".....

[Searcher08]

Yeah, thank for enlightening me with such needle sharp observations about Icke. . ZZzzzzz.....
Can I have my last 30 seconds back?

[Searcher08]

90% of everything is bullshit
Theodore Sturgeon

[philipacentaur]

Michael Tsarion is an interesting guy.

Whenever I see any of his work, I am always reminded of the information provided by people like Kay Griggs and Dee Carone - the dark intersection of military intel, Zionist mafia and mind control.

I'm reminded of the "information" provided to people like Winston Churchill by Nesta Webster. Tsarion's a fan, too. You want your time back? Good luck with that, simpleton. Funny how I've seen you defending both Icke and Tsarion recently, and quite rabidly.

Anyway, fun stuff, people. Keep it coming.

[§ê¢rꆧ]

I have to concur with tKl. Icke is nucking futs but he's welcome around the campfire for now. Same with Tsarion.

It's funny - this thread has popped up because last nite I just discovered a co-worker who is way into Icke, much to my surprise. We had a similar back-and-forth as on this thread (maybe a little lest hostile and agreed to disagree.

The unfortunate thing in my perspective is that the rest of my co-workers could not see the difference between David Icke and, say... Peter Dale Scott. In fact they had ONLY heard of Icke and none of the more rational conspiracy research. There is much truth to this muddying the waters stuff.

[teamdaemon]

Seems to me like he's just sitting outside by the entrance to the warren.

Definitely. And he will tell you a bunch of shit about what's in there that he blatantly pulled out of his ass. Icke is a science fiction writer. Science fiction writers with cult followings that think the science fiction is real... does that sound familiar?

[Searcher08]

Michael Tsarion is an interesting guy.

Whenever I see any of his work, I am always reminded of the information provided by people like Kay Griggs and Dee Carone - the dark intersection of military intel, Zionist mafia and mind control.

I'm reminded of the "information" provided to people like Winston Churchill by Nesta Webster. Tsarion's a fan, too. You want your time back? Good luck with that, simpleton. Funny how I've seen you defending both Icke and Tsarion recently, and quite rabidly.

Anyway, fun stuff, people. Keep it coming.

Bite me.

Try learning to read - I said Tsarion was an interesting guy - I did not say I agreed with a lot of what he said, or is that distinction a bit too much for your superficial scanning?

Where is the post with my "rabid" defence of Tsarion?

[lunarose]

the thing that gets me about all this is the defamation of reptiles. reptiles defend a territory just big enough to support them, only kill what they need to eat, and even have consensual sex!

why do people take traits only found in humans and project them as being alien or from outside? we're so ignorant about our nature and the worlds of other creatures.

so, anyone here have any proof about the reptilian nature of our rulers they'd like to share with the board, seeing as we have some 'true believers' here?

[philipacentaur]

Bite me.

On your "Holy Shillelagh"? No thanks, I'm spoken for.

Try learning to read - I said Tsarion was an interesting guy - I did not say I agreed with a lot of what he said, or is that distinction a bit too much for your superficial scanning?

Where is the post with my "rabid" defence of Tsarion?

No, I read all of it. I'm quite a good reader, and I do it all the time. Okay, maybe not "rabid" -- I tend to veer into hyperbole and assholery when I have a severe sleep deficit. What's your excuse?

Whenever I see any of his work, I am always reminded of the information provided by people like Kay Griggs and Dee Carone - the dark intersection of military intel, Zionist mafia and mind control.

There must be a reason that Tsarion reminds you of these things. I wonder what that reason is. Actually, I don't.

You just stepped in here because you have an axe to grind, and your entree was in the form of feigning disinterest. Get to discussing or fuck off.