9/11 Cult Watch

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9/11 Cult Watch

Postby American Dream » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:17 pm

From: http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/

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WHY THIS SITE IS NEEDED

The awful events of 9/11/01 in the USA have had a deep and pernicious effect on the body politic in the US, and elsewhere, especially the UK. We oppose the calamitous invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan & the ongoing 'War on Terror' from an anti-imperialist (and anti-capitalist) position. Be that as it may, our remit here is not specifically those matters--many activists are already on the case internationally, and we commend them for that. Our efforts are complementary, not competitive.

Five years on the '9/11 Truth cult' (our term) is growing in the UK, a development that troubles us. Not because we dislike uncomfortable questions being asked of the powerful. On the contrary, we at Notes From the Borderland (NFB) magazine have been doing cutting edge parapolitical research since 1997, and individually before that. Our record of evidence-based research into covert state/ruling class activity plus an expertise in fringe politics qualifies us, we feel, to sound the alarm now. Those interested can peruse our sister-site www.borderland.co.uk, which outlines NFB research themes, methods and publications available. Precisely because we are committed to rigorous analytical research and related political intervention NFB is speaking out. Below, the 'issues' we have with the UK '9/11 Truth Movement' are summarised. Constructive feedback welcome.

WHY THE 9/11 TRUTH CULT BOTHERS US

1) They act like a cult, and an aggressive one. The unannounced 9/11 Truth meeting at the October 2005 Anarchist Bookfair in London was marked by physical violence (jostling and digging critics in the ribs), concerted attempts to drown out critics and a nasty intimidatory atmosphere overall. A valuable insight--click for details. At the demonstration outside the (Manchester) Labour Party Conference in September 2006, David Shayler (see below) threw his considerable weight about, forcibly seizing the 'free' microphone from one demonstrator who tried to draw attention to NFB's critique of the movement. While veterans of sharp exchanges, even we have been taken aback by the volume and vitriolic nature of the abusive email exchanges coming our way from this cult.

2) Disgracefully, prominent positions within the UK & Ireland 9/11 Truth Movement are occupied by ex-MI5 officers David Shayler & Annie Machon. Schnews memorably terms Shayler the 9/11 cult 'Poster Boy'--with his ready media access, Shayler is a big domestic draw as an (undoubtedly) impressive public speaker. Machon is the grandly-titled 'Secretary, UK & Ireland 9/11 Truth Campaign', and as such a 'gatekeeper' at the heart of the campaign. NFB have long analysed this pair's ever-shifting stories, and repeated lies. It is a moot question just whose agenda they are working to--including the distinct possibility of alignment with one or other state fraction--see here on this. In Notes From the Borderland issue 7 Heidi Svenson & Paul Stott wrote a critical article on the pair's role in the 9/11 Campaign, also available on this current site--here. To date, the main cultist answer has been abuse, and claims there is nothing to respond to. However, Machon has another line--on the British 9/11 Truth Campaign forum 26/9/06 she attacked Schnews (8/9/06 issue 559) and others in the "anarchist fringe" claiming it was "anybody's guess" as to why we dislike Machon/Shayler, raising the possibility such critics "may be" part of an "MI5 disinformation campaign designed to cause division, just as the campaign is beginning to bite". It takes the biscuit, that lying red-baiting spooks, who have not told the truth about their own murky pasts, implyothers work for the secret state. Shayler made similar (unsubstantiated) claims about the Stop the War Coalition too (see NFB 7 article). Machon says, with unintentional irony "I would hope that our record speaks for itself". It does indeed. Some 9/11 activists are waking up--scroll down to the comments section here.

3) A growing distaste at bizarre conspiracy theories the 9/11 cult propagate, in particular anti-semitism. Claims by Shayler (New Statesman 11/9/06) that 9/11 was a 'Zionist' conspiracy are two-a-penny--yet we rarely hear the phrase 'Saudi conspiracy' with far more evidence for such. Lurking in the wings are the usual racist snake-oil salesmen (or in David Icke's case lizards) eager to blame the 'Jews'. The venomous & often anti-semitic reaction to criticism by Jewish journalist Jon Ronson in November 2006 exemplifies this. A relevant subtext is the sheer disbelief non-US citizens could have organised 9/11 without US government assistance--racism by another (subtle) name.

4) Revulsion at the fact that increasingly (or intrinsically) ludicrous theories put about by the 9/11 cult & their home-grown shadow, the 7/7 cult, have the effect of letting spooks and others responsible off the hook in terms of accounting for their activities. In this category come Shayler's recent argument that no planes hit the World Trade Centre (or Pentagon) 9/11/01--instead it was holograms/ missiles/pre-placed explosives. Not only does this impute omniscient powers to the state in terms of carrying operations out effectively, it also implies they have the ability to keep the thousands involved quiet--amazing! The UK equivalent is the claim that the London 7/7/05 bombers didn't actually travel from Luton, didn't carry (or make) any bombs, and the 'suicide videos' they made weren't them anyway. None of this seems true to us, on current evidence. Amid the fog of 'hologram' hoaxes and other fruitloopery, secret state agencies and governments can thus evade hard questions--about why the Pakistani ISI head transferred $100,000 to 9/11 pilot Mohammed Atta, inadequate emergency procedures in New York & London, or the role of apparent MI6 asset Haroon Aswat in 7/7 for instance. NFB has a particular interest in retaining, and enlarging, the space for radical 'parapolitical' analysis of state malfeasance--and are concerned growing fruitcake influence chokes off the space for publicising actual real-life scandals which 9/11 cultists are indifferent to--the 1999 London nail-bombings and Tony Lecomber conspiracy to murder plot of recent--2006--provenance.

5) Fundamentally, the 9/11 & 7/7 cults have a pernicious effect on political discourse. By focussing primarily on a small group of decision-makers in a predominantly ahistorical way, they serve to trivialise, and disempower, the very popular masses that are ultimately the agents of radical social change--if that is to happen. As the excellent Schnews article says"World power is not a neat pyramidal structure with aliens, Jews or a cabal of men with a secret handshake at the top...There is one conspiracy that doesn't lurk in smoky rooms behind closed doors--its called global capitalism". Some US comrades have correctly described 9/11 conspiracy obsessives as examples of "arrested radicalisation". It is true many now drawn towards the 9/11 & 7/7 cults would in the past have become Leftists--and it is vital the Left/Greens do not ignore the genuine issues posed by 9/11--but as supplementary to political practice, not substituting for it. Ultimately, the 9/11 obsession of many people in the UK is not a manifestation of critical thought, but cultural and political subordination to the US--whereby events there are considered more important than equivalents in the UK or the rest of the world. A post-Cold War echo of Soviet Union worship. Earlier Al-Qaeda attacks, such as the 1998 Nairobi US Embassy bombing, get barely a look in, conspiracy-wise. Not just because most killed (213/4,600 injured) were non-white, but the carnage took place outside the imperial (US) heartland. So little to interest white middle-class Western conspiracy theorists. 7/7, however, functions as a useful add-on to the main event--9/11. Though added to the lexicon of 9/11 cult issues in the US, this is done in a patronising way--see the 'Bullhorn Bull-shitter' Alex Jones' film.

THE PURPOSE OF THIS SITE

1) A source of critical comment and resources--send us ideas on such, and new section suggestions. We do not intend to be a comprehensive 9/11 (or 7/7) site, but a signpost directing you to appropriate information. To reach a page, click on the appropriate text block in the left-hand column above, or sub-heading below.

2) A spur to debate on our parallel site where we welcome crossing swords with cultists-- http://paulstott.typepad.com/911cultwatch/ . That said, racist and anti-semitic abuse will disappear faster than Machon/Shayler from a truth-drug party (with or without green skull-candles).

3) To act as a collation point for ludicrous 9/11 & 7/7 cult media interventions needing a response--which we will act on as time permits.

4) Encouraging activists opposed to conspiracism to understand they are not alone, helping them speak up, and not be shouted down, intimidated or ignored. Such activists may well include a sensible reality-oriented minority inside the 9/11 Truth campaign itself.

5) An essential first step towards sanity, inspiring non-dupes within the UK 9/11 movement to excise Machon & Shayler from the ranks.

6) To enhance national/international networking of those genuinely committed to evidence-based parapolitical research. To this end, we welcome reciprocal web-links with those in agreement: email us at nineelevencultwatch@uk2.net.

7) To facilitate producing/distribution of relevant leaflets & analyses. If there is interest in a pamphlet, let us know. In the interim, and anyway, we will continue to research 9/11, 7/7 & associated cults in Notes From the Borderland magazine--if you have articles to submit email us at: contactnfb@tiscali.co.uk. Alternatively write to NFB at BM Box 4769 London WC1N 3XX. To purchase issues 7 (already out) & 8 (which will cover Al Qaeda/7-7/9-11 Truth Cult) visit www.borderland.co.uk then follow the links.

8) To help the precipitate serious analysis of the 9/11 & 7/7 cults as social political and quasi-religious phenomena.
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Disinfo outfit

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:54 pm

COINTELPRO division efforts ramping up.

This is a dead give-away that spooks are behind this 'cultwatch' site-

Encouraging activists opposed to conspiracism to understand they are not alone,


This is the line that CIA shill, Chip Berlet, uses, too.

"Silly irrational kooks believing that planning (conspiring) goes on. Nonsense."
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Postby nomo » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:56 pm

Seems to me that site isn't opposed so much to "conspiracism" as it is to loony-tunes conspiracism.
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:03 pm

This is a dead give-away that spooks are behind this 'cultwatch' site-

This is a dead give-away that you haven't had more than a cursory glance at the site and have no idea who's "behind" it.
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Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:05 pm

Remember Hugh, this is a UK site, and the UK 9/11 and 7/7 movements have been blessed with the leadership of MI5er David "I am Jesus" Shayler.

Any group seeking justice and truth needs a healthy dose of self-criticism, or it's going to invite justifiable criticism from outside. But any group that morphs into a "movement" may be beyond that.
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Chip Berlet all the way.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:26 pm

Jeff wrote:Remember Hugh, this is a UK site, and the UK 9/11 and 7/7 movements have been blessed with the leadership of MI5er David "I am Jesus" Shayler.

Any group seeking justice and truth needs a healthy dose of self-criticism, or it's going to invite justifiable criticism from outside. But any group that morphs into a "movement" may be beyond that.


Of course there are spook infiltrators like Shayler. Duh.
And I'm judging this op article that itself spews spook lines.

That line about rejecting "conspiricism" is a slam dunk. That's a BULLSHIT expression.

Here's some more from this awful article-
>don't say things that "impute omniscient powers to the state" straw man
>the 'how could the government be so competently evil' straw man
>the 'someone would've talked' strawman
>tying controlled demolition to 'holograms' and other "fruitloopery"
>emphasizing the entirely unsubstantiated cover story meme of "9/11 pilot Mohammed Atta"

This is gatekeeping and cointelpro wrapped in 'more rational than thou' packaging.
NOT critical thinking and well-warranted criticism of a movement.


In this category come Shayler's recent argument that no planes hit the World Trade Centre (or Pentagon) 9/11/01--instead it was holograms/ missiles/pre-placed explosives. Not only does this impute omniscient powers to the state in terms of carrying operations out effectively, it also implies they have the ability to keep the thousands involved quiet--amazing! The UK equivalent is the claim that the London 7/7/05 bombers didn't actually travel from Luton, didn't carry (or make) any bombs, and the 'suicide videos' they made weren't them anyway. None of this seems true to us, on current evidence. Amid the fog of 'hologram' hoaxes and other fruitloopery, secret state agencies and governments can thus evade hard questions--about why the Pakistani ISI head transferred $100,000 to 9/11 pilot Mohammed Atta, inadequate emergency procedures in New York & London, or the role of apparent MI6 asset Haroon Aswat in 7/7 for instance.


NOTHING about 9/11 Truth based on physical evidence and pointing at the cover-up allows "secret state agencies and governments" to "thus evade hard questions."

THAT's a false dichotomy, a double bind ploy.
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:32 pm

I'm more concerned by the fact that their web design is even more retarded than the average 9/11 truth site, and that's saying something! :)
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So I was right.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:34 pm

Just look at the touted sister site. There is NO 9/11 Truth. Just linking it to anti-semitism and alien abductees.

And here's their recommended reading.

http://paulstott.typepad.com/911cultwatch/books/index.html

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Rudolph Giuliani: Leadership
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:38 pm

Yes, because we all know true 9/11 researchers wouldn't stoop so low as to read Giuliani's book when researching Giuliani. Why can't these spooky spooks just watch recontextualised interview clips on youtube like any reasonable and intelligent person would?
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Re: Chip Berlet all the way.

Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:38 pm

Myopic much? Your obsession over "physical evidence" which is neither physical nor evidence and presumption of spookhood upon anyone who doesn't share it, blinds you to a lot of good stuff.

You quoted a nice segment, but omitted the first line:

"Revulsion at the fact that increasingly (or intrinsically) ludicrous theories put about by the 9/11 cult & their home-grown shadow, the 7/7 cult, have the effect of letting spooks and others responsible off the hook in terms of accounting for their activities."

Isn't revulsion an appropriate response to the "Truth Movement" that ate 9/11 justice?
Last edited by Jeff on Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby OP ED » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:39 pm

After reading their resources/researches page, I'm inclined to agree with Hugh, although I'd not say they're more than gatekeepers, that much seems obvious to me.

In the RR section of their page they make all sorts of suspect claims about various sources [such as the innocence of the PNAC's "new pearl harbor" meme, rather that it wasn't said by PNAC, outrightly false, etc].

They allude to the presence of disinformationists in the movement, but want to avoid "conspiracism". [what would YOU call it? Planned psyops? For what purpose?]

It reeks of amazing randiness to me, although in the usual holier-than-thou sense, so I'm inclined to see "gatekeeper" rather than spook.

My opinion. Look the site over for yourself, if you see something that indicates I'm wrong, bring it to my attention, but telling me to read it myself isn't an argument for its validity, as I'm doing so.

I've bookmarked it for later.
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:43 pm

Well guys, nice job proving their point I guess? :(
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Postby OP ED » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:47 pm

orz wrote:Well guys, nice job proving their point I guess? :(


That was the reason they put the site up, I'd imagine, to further marginalise those who are in the middle on most of this.

I'm still looking at the site, haven't found much yet.
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Postby orz » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:52 pm

Much what?
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Postby OP ED » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:00 pm

orz wrote:Much what?


of anything particularly interesting and/or damning. Like I say, I don't assume everyone is a spook. But some of the opinions on this site do seem to detract from valid points of view and deflate the entire line of questioning.

It seems to me that these people live in a bubble world, wherein 911 "may" have had some "inside" help along the way ["maybe"], but that this bubble exists in some parallel universe where its somehow a NEW thing. {like their crack about CT being "ahistorical" above}

What history are they talking about?

Fucking newbies started researching this shit in Fall '01 and pretend that nothing overtly [and covertly] weird ever happened before that.
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