9/11 Cult Watch

[erosoplier]

I think about it once in a while, but it isn't the main focus of my inquiry. If ever we figure out who did this, and somehow wrest power from their hands, historians can fill in the details.

I see it the other way around. Step 1: wrest some power from their hands; Step 2: use that power to figure out who did this.

The process of wresting power from their hands is as likely to flush out suspects as is any other particular means.

[slimmouse]

Having said that, you may be surprised by what I personally think about the collapses. There are two explanations that make more sense to me than the others. The first is that the towers were built with substandard materials and methods, as a result of mob-controlled corruption (skimming) in the construction industry of mid-70s New York. That could could certainly lead to a surprising collapse that any engineer would have great difficulty replicating using expected values for the materials. Imagine that. Corruption. In construction. In New York. In the 70s. Unthinkable.

And the reason WTC 7 collapsed is ?

You'll have to forgive my impatience here, but part of me is truly impatient, and given what people on RI know about all and sundry, I find it truly amazing that we are even disputing all of this.

Those towers were blown to kingdom come. Deliberately, and with occult impunity.

And for those who find this "insignificant", you try fucking telling that to the victims in those towers - The vast majority of whom would be here today but for those strange laws of physics anomalies.

Factor that into your equation as to why some of us truly feel angry that all of the evidence which points to deliberate destruction of those towers, which has fuckall to do with planes hitting them, is being ignored/ridiculed


Not to mention a few million Iraqui/afghani cadavers who are guilty of little more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time as the "empire strikes back".

The empire strikes back, largely as a result of the 3000 dead (mostly in New York) as a result of the hitherto unexplained collapse of those towers.

Go figure, you fucking schmucks.


And finally, for those in our midst who expect the average guy to be able to establish who was responsible for 9/11 by wading through tomes of "follow the money" books as opposed to looking at the hitherto unexplained and yet in your face collapse of those buildings, then I say;

Enough of this bullshit.

Did you get that Orz, Nomo et al ?

[Hammer of Los]

Hey, can I join in? I just read the whole lot. Actually, I'm quite enjoying it. I'm not sure why.

To be honest, I'm getting quite a thrill watching Isachar go at it. Gosh, you really had enough of this goddawful bs didnt you, Isachar? I can wholly understand why. I think to understand why you have to have been a, quite frankly, absurdly committed reader of these forums (and Jeff's blogs, well the poison pen ones where he turns on the 911 Truth Movement) for at least three to four years.

Am I gonna ramble? Yeah, its late.

When Nomo said kthnxbi or whatever the adolescent lingo was, I said to myself, why do people always say that and then post again a few moments later? Pretty funny stuff. Like those posts where Prof Pan says right Hugh, I've had enough arguing with you. As if. They always come back for more. That's why their posts number in the thousands. Always gotta try and have the last word. It's easier than offering anything genuinely substantive.

Oh yeah, something else that also tickled me was possibly the single most wit-less response by orz ever - yeah I know that would take some doing. It was this one;

ARGH SHUT UP

Hey, that's pretty smart, witty stuff right there. You sure put Isachar in his place with that one. I guess after your one zillionth sarcastic derisory insulting phrase, you had just run out of imagination. It happens to us all. You'll get over it man, and I'm sure you will bounce back to a full recovery in no time. Hell, by tomorrow you'll probably be back to berating people over mixed metaphors. I mean those dumb 911 CULTISTS probably use 'em all the time, right?

But, here's a few things.

I dont know about it being a conventional cd, and I don't know about thermite. But those towers sure as hell didnt collapse from aircraft impacts and fires alone, despite how mightily (and mightily badly) NIST and various mainstream organs have tried to convince us all otherwise. Look at the evidence, and make your own mind up.

The chances of "911 Justice" coming about are zero. Let's face it. I agree with those who said that. I thought that was the case from day one. However the more people come to realise the official narrative is one enormous lie, the less public support there will be for the fake war on terror, with its associated agendas of police state panopticon dept. of pre-crime legislation at home, and criminal wars of conquest, regime change and resource control abroad. And an enormous reduction in public support would have a real chance of stymying or at least mitigating the success of those pursuing those agendas. And that is a good thing. Isn't it?

So, in the light of that, I shall quote possibly the most important thing said in this thread. Thank you very much to lunarose;

.. i have had many discussions on this topic with my dad. indira singh, lack of civil defense, lack of pentagon defense, money trails, role of the saudis - all that went nowhere with him. he put it down to incompetence, and 'those politicians and businessmen are all just in bed with each other'. and he's a socialist, not center or right-wing. one day i brought to his attention the speed of the collapse, and that brought him up short. that he had to admit was 'off'.

Bingo!

Oh, do I need to get back on topic?

I shall now post something useful, instead of joining in the glorious, and somewhat enlightening, flame wars. Funnily enough, I shall now link to the only thread I ever started, and probably the only thread I shall ever start, in well over three years of lurking and somewhat sporadic posting on this board. Yes, I'm gonna link you to my very own thread! This thread has some pertinent discussion on Larry O'Hara, Paul Stott, and 911 Cultwatch. Its a good read, honest, and far more pertinent to the OP than this (admittedly rather entertaining) rehash of the great skyscraper collapse bunfight;

The British 9/11 Truth Campaign

Oh, and for real UK 911 Truth junkies (like me), there are some more references to O'Hara and Stott, and their status as likely intelligence assets and green/anarchist infiltrators, gatekeepers and general disrupters on the following thread too. On this one you can also find more than you would ever want on David Shayler;

May you live in interesting times. (Concerning David Shayler - my subtitle)


*Yeah, I looked it up. I guess the emote is you breaking down in despair trying to think up a derisory, sneering, insulting, smart-arse comment that is actually remotely funny. Well, good luck on that one, orz good buddy.

[isachar]

9/11 can't be "solved" like a some stick-up job at the corner store by dusting for prints or analyzing dust particles and molten-whatnot....

..."Justice" will never be administered. That may sound fatalistic, but it is the reality. So what if the buildings fell or were blown up? What difference does it make? So you somehow prove they were blown up- then what? Dick Cheney is lead out of the White House in chains? The perps are so thoroughly ABOVE the law in this case. Why get so nasty over thermite gibberish? Its inconsequential.

Fresno, can't say as I disagree with your basic fatalistic point, although it applies equally to any and all arguments. But rolling over and playing dead is exactly what the perps expect of the most, and for those who do not, well, let's just say they have their ways of coersion and punishment.

Sunshine, however, is the best antidote to lies and cover-ups. Jeff and his chorus of lesser amen Amy's do all they can to bring on the clouds to those areas of the constellation of 911 related crimes covered or suppressed by the phony NIST investigation.

The public lynching and firing of, for example, Dr. Jones and Kevin Ryan are both excellent cases in point of public retribution/sacking, denigration and destruction of those who reject the NIST fairy tale - irrespective of what one may think about the merits of their respective analyses and arguments (neither of which are as risable as Sir Isaac Nomobrains oft-expressed religous bigotry ad hominem and strawman attacks on Dr. Jones).

It's my opinion that so much effort has been directed to suppression of a valid and legitimate investigation of areas addressed (or suppressed) by the NIST investigation, and towards attacking those who have put forward cogent science-based arguments on this subject, is because this area of the coverup is the one the perps are most worried about containing.

Jeff and the other amen Amy's who take the 'so what' approach to elements of the crime addressed or suppressed by NIST regularly attack, belittle, and heap scorn and abuse on those who pursue this subject area. They do not distinguish between those who make mincemeat of the transparenly phony/contrived NIST report (see upthread for more on this) and those who make diligent, cogent and valid science-based arguments and investigations in support of alternative hypotheses, or those who most of us would agree, whose work and efforts lies nearer the outer fringes.

Nope, Jeff and the other Amy's go much further by lumping all such individuals, investigations and arguments together. They place a clever label on one and all and then disingenuously fail to a) acknowledge that a valid investigation does not start by throwing out hypothese' that are disagreeable to the public or to the investigator before they've been subject to a valid investigatory approach; and, b) note that some hypotheses have higher probabilities than others; and c) further by attributing the weaknesses of lower probability hypotheses to those with higher probabilities (a form of strawman argument).

NIST, for example, never gave the assisted collapse scenario any consideration over the course of its investigation. This seems to suit Jeff and the lesser Amy's just fine.

The bogus method employed by NIST (which can be described as "assume your own results") to arrive at its conclusions of fire/high sustained temps is prima facie evidence of inteptitude and/or fraud.

The investigatory method that showed the highest potential of exposing the official fairy tale as a fraud and hoax was discontinued; that method, which was to replicate the actual fire conditions and subjecting comparable type/quality of structural steel therto in a laboratory setting was discontinued after initial tests failed to get lesser strength floor trusses to fail after they were continuously exposed to flames/temps for far longer than the fires lasted in the WTC's.

The investigatory method of analyzing dust samples for evidence of chemicals and compounds that would be present in the case of some methods employed in an assisted collapse hypothesis was not employed. Indeed, no samples were taken prior to NIST's involvement by FEMA, FBI, NYPD, or other official investigators, and NIST made no effort to obtain any such samples.

The well-documented (by others) eutetic reaction of steel recovered from underneath WTC's 1, 2 and 7 that is characteristic of use of some demo-type charges was ignored.

"It don't matter." "Give 'em a pass." "Fuck off," "They're all New Truthers" (or whatever the snide label of the day is to lump together and deride all who support a legitimate investigation of the areas covered or suppressed by NIST), say jeff and his chorus of lesser Amy's.

This as they use their favored method - aptly described by FB as 'winging it' - to dismiss those making credible, replicable, science-based arguments and analyses supportive of a legitimate investigation. Perhaps the best example being Sir Isaac Nomo making up his own additions, revisions, modifications, and exceptions to Newtonian laws of motion.

Rubber gloves anyone?

And, Hammer of Los, you rock dude. Mas, Otra. Mas, Otra! Swing that hammer.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

.....However the more people come to realise the official narrative is one enormous lie, the less public support there will be for the fake war on terror, with its associated agendas of police state panopticon dept. of pre-crime legislation at home, and criminal wars of conquest, regime change and resource control abroad. And an enormous reduction in public support would have a real chance of stymying or at least mitigating the success of those pursuing those agendas. And that is a good thing. Isn't it?

.....

That's exactly right.

The more the public is certain that the 9/11 cover story is FALSE, the less support for the huge uptick in fascism.

And that's why some of us stick with truth PROOF in the physical evidence to keep it simple and certain for the masses.

That's strategicly sound and scientifically sound at the same time. Double bingo.

[8bitagent]

Having said that, you may be surprised by what I personally think about the collapses. There are two explanations that make more sense to me than the others. The first is that the towers were built with substandard materials and methods, as a result of mob-controlled corruption (skimming) in the construction industry of mid-70s New York. That could could certainly lead to a surprising collapse that any engineer would have great difficulty replicating using expected values for the materials. Imagine that. Corruption. In construction. In New York. In the 70s. Unthinkable.

And the reason WTC 7 collapsed is ?

You'll have to forgive my impatience here, but part of me is truly impatient, and given what people on RI know about all and sundry, I find it truly amazing that we are even disputing all of this.

Those towers were blown to kingdom come. Deliberately, and with occult impunity.

And for those who find this "insignificant", you try fucking telling that to the victims in those towers - The vast majority of whom would be here today but for those strange laws of physics anomalies.

Factor that into your equation as to why some of us truly feel angry that all of the evidence which points to deliberate destruction of those towers, which has fuckall to do with planes hitting them, is being ignored/ridiculed


Not to mention a few million Iraqui/afghani cadavers who are guilty of little more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time as the "empire strikes back".

The empire strikes back, largely as a result of the 3000 dead (mostly in New York) as a result of the hitherto unexplained collapse of those towers.

Go figure, you fucking schmucks.


And finally, for those in our midst who expect the average guy to be able to establish who was responsible for 9/11 by wading through tomes of "follow the money" books as opposed to looking at the hitherto unexplained and yet in your face collapse of those buildings, then I say;

Enough of this bullshit.

Did you get that Orz, Nomo et al ?

I agree the towers were blown up to kingdom come..but I dont know how the magic trick was done. Maybe Criss Angel Mindfreak can explain?

The towers were blown up in a way that to the majority of engineers it would fit the fire impact theory.

When leftist heroes like Chumpsky talk about "oh 9/11 doesnt matter", he doesnt realize that it wasnt just 3000, but all the people killed in the Afghan, Iraq, and other invasions, incursions etc

AND the clout the "war on terror" gave Israel, Phillipines, Russia, etc to totally brutalize areas they wanted
So were talking 9/11 killed over a million people

However, who blew up the towers remains a mystery. We dont know how they did it, and who did it. The money trail I find to be air tight

[isachar]

[quote="8bitagent
However, who blew up the towers remains a mystery. We dont know how they did it, and who did it. The money trail I find to be air tight[/quote]

8bit,but one needs all of one's ammo when pursuing such things.

Like with Watergate, it was the tape on the doors that led to that one being blown open (insofar as that went). It wasn't the money trail, which didn't come until sometime after.

At the risk of being accused by some among the amen chorus of mixing my metaphors - and from a purely strategic perspective for the moment - one doesn't allow the other team to begin each posession at the 50-yard line and expect to prevail, or to not be slaughtered.

Just sayin', and not sayin' it can't/won't happen differently this time around - if at all.

Regards.

[orz]

Did you get that Orz, Nomo et al ?

No I didn't read it.

[orz]

Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's Amy's

Wow, you really do think that's a good idea! Amazing.

[orz]

one doesn't allow the other team to begin each posession at the 50-yard line and expect to prevail, or to not be slaughtered.

The other team has already won and gone home, plus they weren't even playing against your team.

[brainpanhandler]

.....However the more people come to realise the official narrative is one enormous lie, the less public support there will be for the fake war on terror, with its associated agendas of police state panopticon dept. of pre-crime legislation at home, and criminal wars of conquest, regime change and resource control abroad. And an enormous reduction in public support would have a real chance of stymying or at least mitigating the success of those pursuing those agendas. And that is a good thing. Isn't it?

.....

That's exactly right.

The more the public is certain that the 9/11 cover story is FALSE, the less support for the huge uptick in fascism.

And that's why some of us stick with truth PROOF in the physical evidence to keep it simple and certain for the masses.

That's strategicly sound and scientifically sound at the same time. Double bingo.

Maybe so. But isn't there the seed of a reconciliation here? One camp speaks to the "masses" in a way that seems the most convincing and the other camp speaks to a smaller, but potentially more influential in it's own way, audience about the more complicated money trail. Are we really at cross purposes? This seems to me ideal. In fact, if we were to all sit down and discuss the best way to convince as many people as possible about the "truth" of 9/11 we might well conceive of just such a two pronged approach.

Is language like "fucking schmucks" really necessary?

[FourthBase]

I can't understand why isachar isn't a "guest" yet.

[lunarose]

oh my goodness hammer of los, i'm blushing...!

again, i'd like to reiterate that different pieces of evidence cause the penny to drop for different people. that's why its so important to develop all the lines of evidence (collapse stuff, lack of defense, normal emergency procedure, money trails, deep politics, investigation into the hijackers' story, on and on).

also, considering that these towers were supposed to be some of the most brilliant engineering of the late 20th century, i think an honest no-holds-barred investigation into what caused the collapse - impact and fires, cd, shoddy materials, lack of adherence to construction specs - is vitally important. how many steel frame skyscrapers are there around the world? that was a hideous loss of life, and repeats should be prevented at all costs. its just a standard safety issue - like how the FAA investigates every plane crash to make sure the safety protocols are rock solid. well, what do you know, the FAA kinda forgot to do that in this case ..............

[Jeff]

I can't understand why isachar isn't a "guest" yet.

The thread's seen a lot of incivility (I'm guilty too), but I don't see any bannable offenses. And since the incivility is contained to the thread, the board hasn't been disrupted.

We haven't had a CD thread in a while so there's some steam to blow off, and it's about as serious as having recess in a mud puddle.

Having said that, if the thread's to stay open, let's bring the mudslinging down a couple of notches.

[FourthBase]

I can't understand why isachar isn't a "guest" yet.

The thread's seen a lot of incivility (I'm guilty too), but I don't see any bannable offenses. And since the incivility is contained to the thread, the board hasn't been disrupted.

We haven't had a CD thread in a while so there's some steam to blow off, and it's about as serious as having recess in a mud puddle.

Having said that, if the thread's to stay open, let's bring the mudslinging down a couple of notches.

Fair 'nuff.