9/11 Cult Watch

[DrVolin]

The real change in dynamic was the failure of flight 93 to obliterate Congress. I agree that the collapse was not necessary, but may very have been planned anyway.

[Searcher08]

Given the fact that each WTC was demolished by two thermobaric bombs, which were planted in the central liftshaft, one just above the plane impact site, the other in the basement, using nothing more than a single fork-lift truck, all of this is moot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-l1mr2h98

Where's the green font?

There

Seriously, what is easier

A Demolition crew of dozens spending days / weeks drilling and wiring wiring each building
vs
Two / three people with a fork-lift make two trips and have both sites set up in an afternoon, in time for tea ?

WTC 7 looks like a CD - the other ones do not.

[8bitagent]

Thats one heck of a chance to take, to *hope* the towers collapse. To *hope* your brainwashed dupes make it on the planes and direct them smack into the towers at high enough positions(remember, if TOO many people died on 9/11, youd have a whollllle different dynamic at play)

But there still would have been wars waged if the towers hadn't collapsed.

What people assume is that the collapses were needed either to induce psychological trauma or to bury sensitive records or both. But in terms of providing an impetus for military invasions/occupations and the Patriot Act etc, the only thing needed was for the planes to hit the buildings. Right?

And what exactly would the "different dynamic" have been if, say, 40 thousand people had died? And how would that putative dynamic have been bad for the perps? Isn't the altitude of the impact zones a result of planes simply not being able to fly low enough through Manhattan to hit, say, the 20th or 30th floors?

That would pretty much be like Empire Strikes Back without the "Im your father" revelation at the end. Sure, itd be an epic movie...but it just wouldnt be the cherry on top masterpiece.

The human mind, as much as by the time 175 struck the South Tower, would still cognitively perceive it as an accident mentally. Smoke coming out of a high rise just does not elicit the apocalyptic trauma inducing psychological impact as two massive towers crumbling into fine micron power, pyroclastically flowing through the streets with people screaming...out of some sort of Bruckheimer movie.

Any psychologist will tell you, even a BBC Curtis documentary(Century of Self) that some things induce more mass social effects. Psychologists would probably agree that the sight of the tower collapse and ensuing clouds through the streets is a million times more impactful than merely two planes going in. However, Flight 175 being shown repeatedly on tv with the big ol' fireball was definately part of the trauma.

Without the towers collapsing, there'd be no...



Remember the first time you heard the sound of primal fear induced shrieking curse words on television as they replayed the reactions from people as the South Tower fell?

We might have seen some Bill Clinton like pinpricks and actions in Afghanistan, but it was ALL about the towers falling that day...all the decade(and I believe more) preperation for it was culminating to that moment. Flight 93 not making DC was perhaps undesired, but the towers HAD to fall that day

I just try not to speculate on HOW they were *guaranteed* to fall or how the planes were *guaranteed* to hit WTC 1/2 and Pentagon

[FourthBase]

We might have seen some Bill Clinton like pinpricks and actions in Afghanistan, but it was ALL about the towers falling that day

You seriously think that?

Collapses or not, I think there would have been the same wars.

[Jeff]

The real change in dynamic was the failure of flight 93 to obliterate Congress.

Absolutely agree. The flight was delayed 40 minutes, closing the window of plausible denial.

[8bitagent]

Given the fact that each WTC was demolished by two thermobaric bombs, which were planted in the central liftshaft, one just above the plane impact site, the other in the basement, using nothing more than a single fork-lift truck, all of this is moot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-l1mr2h98

Heh, you may have something there.

Watching that clip, its amazing how this weapon was

1. developed to kill deep within Afghanistan in the 80's
2. obviously meant to kill in the war on terror being planned
3. that asian lady is pure evil
4. the guy said its "most effective" when planted inside of a high structure


I wonder if there would be any trace of the bomb itself if such a device had been placed in the world trade center(didnt william rodriguez or others talk about shenanigans and heavy equipment going on on empty floors?)

Meaning, if you tested some of the towers, there would be traces of something like this.

Again, Im very open minded...I just dont believe in the way controlled demolition is being hypothesized...tho that said, I respect and greatly appreciate out of all the architects; what Gordon Ross has said

[8bitagent]

The real change in dynamic was the failure of flight 93 to obliterate Congress.

Absolutely agree. The flight was delayed 40 minutes, closing the window of plausible denial.

The hijacked blip of Flight 93, kept continuing on FAA and NORAD radar, heading for Washington DC...according to many in NORAD and FAA control centers.

We might have seen some Bill Clinton like pinpricks and actions in Afghanistan, but it was ALL about the towers falling that day

You seriously think that?

Collapses or not, I think there would have been the same wars.

If 9/11 was about capital, I dont think a tower collapse free 9/11 would have given the masterminds of 9/11 the capita they needed....nor the psychological effect

I dont believe for a second 9/11 was merely just about "war and oil", and Im talking even in the exoteric real world sense. I think its more than just corporate and strategic hegemon, but changing the entire landscape of society and bringing about a clash of civilizations

The real change in dynamic was the failure of flight 93 to obliterate Congress. I agree that the collapse was not necessary, but may very have been planned anyway.

IF, Flight 93 was truly intended as part of the 9/11 murder mystery dinner and show; that would mean there may be something to the hijackers revolt...and that means the hijackers took the first blow against the nwo, not "Islamic terrorism" which is just a proxy foil of the PTB

Of course there's also possible evidence of a small bomb on board Flight 93 that went off right as the passengers were about to revolt
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/f93bomb.html

[Searcher08]

You know 8bit, one of the things I despair of is seeing people fixate on just one hypothesis and treat it like it is reality and the ONLY way things can be. One thing I have got from our discussions is the need to be willing to consider multiple, sometime contradictory options and hold them in a creative and conceptually inclusive way; other roads seem to lead to the Land Of The Memetic Foodfight

So much of 911 "debate" reminds me of the Six Blind Men of industan story by Rudyard Kipling

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

[8bitagent]

You know 8bit, one of the things I despair of is seeing people fixate on just one hypothesis and treat it like it is reality and the ONLY way things can be. One thing I have got from our discussions is the need to be willing to consider multiple, sometime contradictory options and hold them in a creative and conceptually inclusive way; other roads seem to lead to the Land Of The Memetic Foodfight

So much of 911 "debate" reminds me of the Six Blind Men of industan story by Rudyard Kipling
[

Brilliant analogy! I had never heard of that poem, but it fits

How brilliant was it of the PTB to create organized Islamic terrorism as we know it under the guise of "fighting them commies", then get every country from Pakistan to Dubai to Saudi Arabia to Israel to even England get involved with 9/11; while putting out a massive ocean of confusing and obfuscating information about the hijackers, timelines, flight patterns, etc

All with a heaping dose of "missiles" and "Jews stayed home" bullshit?

Now were' all just bees without a hive, discombobulated playing the role of your aforementioned six blind men(who somehow all have connections to Carlyle and the ISI)

Oh yeah, one quote that has always stayed with me, to the people who think the planes/fire brought down the towers:

Pakistani ISI official RG Abbas, while pointing to the twin towers in 1999 to an FBI informant whistleblower:
"Those towers are coming down".

Planes and impact/fire alone do not guarantee "those towers are coming down"

And EVEN Osama bin Laden was SHOCKED the towers fell. Fancy that

[erosoplier]

Since nothing I type in these threads seems to matter, from now on I'll communicate solely through photographs. CDers love photographs.

I'm not really looking forward to the next time you feel compelled to call the CD and CD disinfo combination a "circle jerk"

[erosoplier]

Given the fact that each WTC was demolished by two thermobaric bombs, which were planted in the central liftshaft, one just above the plane impact site, the other in the basement, using nothing more than a single fork-lift truck, all of this is moot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-l1mr2h98

Where's the green font?

There

Seriously, what is easier

A Demolition crew of dozens spending days / weeks drilling and wiring wiring each building
vs
Two / three people with a fork-lift make two trips and have both sites set up in an afternoon, in time for tea ?

WTC 7 looks like a CD - the other ones do not.

I don't see how the extra violent thermobaric explosives could possibly have been used to do what happened to the towers. They are high volume pressure wave bombs, and high volume pressure waves didn't bring the towers down.

[erosoplier]

3. that asian lady is pure evil

Is she any more "pure evil" than any other weapons developer?

4. the guy said its "most effective" when planted inside of a high structure

The guy said its "most effective" when planted inside a structure. It fucks people up first and foremost, and if the structure is light enough the pressure wave would do damage to the building itself. Other than that, it's just a really good way to blow the windows out of a building when used indoors.

[FourthBase]

It would destroy fleshy objects like, you know, people.
But look at what it did to some of the plastic dummies.
If plastic can come away with just cracks...
How in the fuck does that destroy buildings?

[isachar]

It's astounding that there those here who would deny those who died at the WTC's and their families a full investigation (one worthy of that term) of the events of that day. It's even more astounding that these same individuals are quite happy to attack those who challenge the patently false and contrived NIST report.

The 'litmus test' Jeff must make people believe exists is just as phony as the NIST invesitgation and the Whitewash Commission reports. It only exists in his mind and those of his sycophantic minions, and perhaps among a few at the fringe. Jeff loves promoting these individuals and framing himself and others as being their victims. I'm sure it gains him popularity among some and gives him a thrill as to his 'righteousness'.

The 911 reality and justice movement has no leaders that I know of. It's at best a wide and largely highly dispersed group of individuals and loose-knit organizationse who reject the official fairy tale. And, like all such 'movements' (a term that I apply very loosely) includes a wide range of opinions and beliefs. Accordingly, it has no official or received dogma - other than a rejection of the official fairy tale. Jeff 'litmus' test is merely a strawman he uses to make his sanctimonious attacks on those who reject the transparently phony NIST investigation and pursue a course he prefers.

But a valid investigation begins by excluding no reasonable hypothesis without subjecting it to the investigatory method first - including (among other techniques) forensics, lab tests and other time-proven methods used as such. A phony backwards assume your own results computer simulation is NOT one of these techniques.

But Jeff and those who allow that deconstruction of the old testament as the one, true and only path to uncovering the official fairy tale liberally wield the hypocriscy of the digital pen to attack and abuse those who recognize that both the old and new testament versions of the official fairy tale are critical to uphold the official dogma, and that both are equally invalid and vulnerable.

I don't know for certain why the towers collapsed, but it's not my job to. What I know for certain is that the official fairy tale offered for their collapse is utterly ludicrous and compromised. I also know that the position of Jeff and the other Amy's posting here who seek to suppress a valid investigation into their collapse are most helpful to those who benefit most from the official fairy tale.

Oh, and orz, you can go back back to licking the underside of the church pews now.

And FB, keep on 'winging it' as you so well describe the pulling it out of your ass approach.

More Hammer, less orzo!

[barracuda]

7 pages back...

Of course I don't object to reopening the investigation.

Thanks for supporting what is the over-arching goal of the 911-reality/justice movement which is to re-open that part of the investigation related to the issues covered by the phony NIST report, as well as to those related to the equally phony 911 Whitewash Commission.