This Is How I Believe 9/11 Was Carried Out

[timetunneler]

Icke is an interesting character... has a lot of insight into spiritual topics, symbolism... seems pretty level headed on many things... then purposely discredits everything he writes by saying that the elites are shapeshifting reptilians. So the question for me is what/who is he protecting by drawing in certain people.. dumping certain memes into the information stream... only to purposely push back those who find the shape shifting alien stuff to be a load of steaming turd... while holding onto a few true believers and a few people willing to read between the lines?

I imagine either he is protecting himself against something by willingly discrediting his work, or he is some type of limited hangout for some group that wants something to be known by those with "eyes to see and hear to hear" and willing to parse through the bullshit.

[8bitagent]

Icke is an interesting character... has a lot of insight into spiritual topics, symbolism... seems pretty level headed on many things... then purposely discredits everything he writes by saying that the elites are shapeshifting reptilians. So the question for me is what/who is he protecting by drawing in certain people.. dumping certain memes into the information stream... only to purposely push back those who find the shape shifting alien stuff to be a load of steaming turd... while holding onto a few true believers and a few people willing to read between the lines?

I imagine either he is protecting himself against something by willingly discrediting his work, or he is some type of limited hangout for some group that wants something to be known by those with "eyes to see and hear to hear" and willing to parse through the bullshit.

Or, he is like any of us...who can't help but add on his own twist or take.

I noticed noones really commented on the bulk of my original post,
which I feel is the closest deconstruction of how 9/11 was paved that I've seen online...I only added the "woo" on the end, because I feel that there is an uncanny esoteric aspect to 9/11 both symbolic and otherwise that seems too ubiquitous to be coincidental.

Otherwise, it's very hard having a Paul Thompson/Peter Dale Scott discussion about 9/11; not be anyone's fault. Memorizing stuff like BCCI,
CIA jihadist in Bosnia, hijacker history, etc is a complex web.

[timetunneler]

I noticed noones really commented on the bulk of my original post,
which I feel is the closest deconstruction of how 9/11 was paved that I've seen online...

I think in the 4th response on this thread I said you summed it all up. So there's not really much left to add. I actually saved it. Good stuff. You should keep adding stuff to it as you learn something new.

[IanEye]

Or, he is like any of us...who can't help but add on his own twist or take.

I noticed noones really commented on the bulk of my original post,

I appreciate the time you took to write your thoughts and ideas down.

One of the things I find interesting about your take is how invested the 'powers that be' were in the actual date: 09/11/01.

To me, that was their Achilles Heel. If any one had gotten wind of the plot, all they had to do was hang a giant banner from the Twin Towers on 08/11/01 proclaiming : 'Say Goodbye - 09/11/01' and according to your theory, the powers that be would have been so married to the plot that they would have gone ahead any way.

speaking of which:



are you going to check out this 'Man On Wire' film, 8bit??

http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/filmguide/Man_On_Wire.html




It makes me wonder how 'guerilla' this particular piece of theater was. meaning, did the Rockefellers fund Petit all along?

Perhaps there will be some 'no man on wire' truthers at the theater, picketing, ala the 'no-planes' people.

[8bitagent]

Or, he is like any of us...who can't help but add on his own twist or take.

I noticed noones really commented on the bulk of my original post,

I appreciate the time you took to write your thoughts and ideas down.

One of the things I find interesting about your take is how invested the 'powers that be' were in the actual date: 09/11/01.

To me, that was their Achilles Heel. If any one had gotten wind of the plot, all they had to do was hang a giant banner from the Twin Towers on 08/11/01 proclaiming : 'Say Goodbye - 09/11/01' and according to your theory, the powers that be would have been so married to the plot that they would have gone ahead any way.

speaking of which:



are you going to check out this 'Man On Wire' film, 8bit??

http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/filmguide/Man_On_Wire.html




It makes me wonder how 'guerilla' this particular piece of theater was. meaning, did the Rockefellers fund Petit all along?

Perhaps there will be some 'no man on wire' truthers at the theater, picketing, ala the 'no-planes' people.

That looks amazing! I know there's a children's book based on that event.

I noticed this part tho in the description:

On the afternoon of August 6, 1974, an international group of conspirators, disguised as construction workers and armed with fake IDs, snuck into the World Trade Center to perpetrate what would be called "the artistic crime of the century."

...curious.

Anyways, there was another famous stunt at the WTC:

The "B-Thing" stunt, in 2000 at the world trade center:
http://pranks.com/2007/08/02/the-b-thing-by-gelitin/

But the man on a wire, thats so trippy...the faintest micro error, and he'd be a goner.

As for being married to the date 9/11/2001, absolutely I believe it *had* to be that perfect Tuesday morning

According to the 9/11 commission, the date was arbitrary, haven already been moved up or moved down according to "confessions of KSM".
Meaning "al Qaeda" chose the date out of convenience.

Just the story of Mohamed Atta and Abdul Alazziz al-Omari from Portland Maine to Boston LAX(where John Doe #2 from OKC bombing al Husseini Hussein was doing baggage handling), where the "luggage" containing everything you needed to know about al qaeda's role in 9/11...
well, that right there to me shows how urgent the operation on that date was.

I almost even see a PROMIS, or Terminator like Skynet advanced AI software component to 9/11, especially when you research what Ptech and some of the WTC companies were up to.

9/11/1990: Bush unveils the new world order to the world on tv
9/11/1941: construction on the pentagon begins
9/11/1973: The CIA helps launch the massive bloody coup in Chile

Just the name, "911", meaning emergency is quite interesting.

As is how most of the major "al Qaeda" attacks since 9/11 have happened on an 11 or 7 within the numbers of the date.

[OP ED]

Do What Thou Wilt Shall be the Whole of the Law;

3113 :: ::




Greetings.

hello op.

"it was inevitable that someone call me mr. ed, i suppose."

honestly, i waited as long as i could.

and you're being very sweet about it.

only because you caught me chemically altered in the right direction, dear.

In a thread far away and long ago, there was a discussion of "pet names" [for lack of better terms] and i considered then mentioning, that at least no one had yet referred to me as "mr ed" [to the best of my knowledge]. I didn't bring it up then, because i didn't want to give anyone any ideas they didn't already have.


Zorn. And Throbbing Gristle. Who knew?
I know a lot of TOPIers who listen to the same.

"9/11 star gate"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvSqY3po24
(gets into tree of life, isis/horus, solomon's temple, etc)

I like what you say and thanks for the vid. I haven't seen that in awhile, but it's great, one of his better efforts. At first, you kinda scratch your head and go, "what?", by the end it becomes clear. Disagree or not, it's brilliant.

I think he gets his facts wrong sometimes(He confuses AIWAZ for Lam in recounting Crowley's work), but overall it's quite an interesting premise he sets up in his synchronicity videos. Sometimes it seems like a stretch, other times it indeeds seem like one big cosmic giggle. It was actually this clip where I first heard of the idea that the structures struck on 9/11 being esoteric symbols.

the conclusions of Mr. Icke aren't often what I'd draw from his neat little piles, but this doesn't detract from the neatness of the piles.

oh, and from before, yes, pentacles [or pentagrams] are everywhere.







for Perelandra:




As I was about to say, or had been saying, or some such thing, ahem. Once you get through the stargate stuff, over the rainbow, things actually get a little weird even for the "woo" initiated.




This item belong[ed] to:
http://lolthulhu.com/

For the record, I've begun [sometimes preemptively] saving my illustrative pictures in the thread linked below. Anyone else may feel free to do likewise.
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/v ... 567#184567

to reiterate, the DuAt [or double doors, longform poetically "dwelling place of the stars"] :

http://www.duaut.com/
the Egyptian Star of Bethlehem
the Canopus Connection: Building the Duat in Three Dimensions
http://www.pakhomov.com/duat.html
the Valley of Kings
the Theory of the Energy of Life
LAM again
Stuff about Wizards and Aliens kind of interesting
quantum resonance theory

http://www.meru.org/Advisors/Torun/cmplethr.html





Thee Duat

The Starry abode. Afterlife, etc. Yes. But also symbolic of more mystical practices. The duat is, like so many other objects mentioned in this thread, surrounded by pillars. Two of them. sometimes they are north and south, rather than east and west.




Again The Devil and the Gates of Matter

Tuat is sometimes called Akert, after Aker, the ancient archetypical earth god who predates GEB [Crowley's Had or Hadit] as guardian of the Double Doors. He has two heads. This will be relevant later.

I just wanted to firmly establish that the Stargate Ritual is of prime interest to Thelema, forming the backbone [literally] of its approach to science and religion. It is unfortunate that David Icke isn't better informed about it. Perhaps I shall write him a letter.




The pillars are so often used in mythology, especially near-eastern and western philosophies, that we almost don't notice them.




Tolkien's trees were Pillars first.

Speaking of God's with Two heads, related to two pillars. We forgot Lagash.



well, he wasn't forgotten, just overlooked. Don't diss thee Eagle. To bring Order from Chaos is an admirable feat. Never confuse the Black Brotherhood's stolen ideas with the fruit of their actual workings. Chaos from Order, more likely.

The Eagle Lagash is emblematic of the Magnum Opus on multiple levels. The most obvious being, as with all lords of Pillars, that he is responsible for the process of initiation. Like Aker [Geb/Hadit] and Abraxas before, he represents the Solar elements in harmony with the Lunar influences. He is Archetypical of the entire operation. He would be emblematic of this one, if it wasn't black.

For contrast, apply this line of reasoning for a moment. In the past, 9/11 was at least a neutral date. To a mainstream illuminist, perhaps, the date would hold Solomonic potential, for architecture, both real and speculative. Okay? So, in this sense, we could see a truly Masonic [i.e. not the BB] occurrence, that is, an aesthetically pleasing microcosm of the formulae enacted for the purpose of illumination [or liberation or medicine, or actual architecting etc]. A good example, on the more mundane levels would be the building of the Pentagon to begin with, in and of itself, neutral. Representationally, both for memetic engineering and possibly for occult values it is in homage to the pantacle, a holy shield, to contain and/or redirect negative energy. A positive magical tool, which like any can be misused.
Another example, on a more philosophical/metaphysical wavelength [see: speculative masonry?] of what the proper alignments of currents such numbers SHOULD evoke can be demonstrated by wiki:

[quote=wiki]In 1906, the Transvaal government promulgated a new Act compelling registration of the colony's Indian population. At a mass protest meeting held in Johannesburg on September 11 that year, Gandhi adopted his still evolving methodology of satyagraha (devotion to the truth), or non-violent protest, for the first time, calling on his fellow Indians to defy the new law and suffer the punishments for doing so, rather than resist through violent means. This plan was adopted, leading to a seven-year struggle in which thousands of Indians were jailed (including Gandhi), flogged, or even shot, for striking, refusing to register, burning their registration cards, or engaging in other forms of non-violent resistance. While the government was successful in repressing the Indian protesters, the public outcry stemming from the harsh methods employed by the South African government in the face of peaceful Indian protesters finally forced South African General Jan Christiaan Smuts to negotiate a compromise with Gandhi. Gandhi's ideas took shape and the concept of Satyagraha matured during this struggle.[/quote]

See 9/11/06 the great wedding you said?

so what does any of this have to do with duat?



or with thelemic sex magick secrets?





who can say?




the flying disks are an old meme. Swedenbourg reported visions of them (in addition to the usual angels and god-types) while engaging in his own tantric pursuits with as many, er, eastern stars as he could get his two left hands on.





He made diagrams for his own airship, inspired by the visions.




The sexual polarities connections to the UFO phenom, are older than Jack Parsons knew. Although, I regard him as the first person to make the overt observation of their connectedness to the tantric paths. Non-sexual stress-inducing practices also generally lead to these sorts of "contact" experiences, with varying degrees of "contact", of course.




Contact,in and of itself, is not the actual purpose of this path. Balance is. As the prophet we call Jesus said [paraphrase] "the left hand does not know what the right is doing". Modern scientific studies of the human nervous system seem to indicate that this was more or less true, if not so simple.





In the plainest language possible, then. As regards my understandings of this path. Sexual alchemy, while processing currents of energies [sometimes resulting in contact] that have overt "sorcerous" side-effects, which are, frankly paranormal is not an end to itself. Which is not to detract from the obvious benefits of tantra, like, y'know having sex for a very long time. The idea is to establish union, not just externally, with the other person. Sex itself can do that, without magic, only chemicals. Rather the target of this union is internal. To [recreate] maintain personal balance on a very fundamental level. This is also likely the reason as to why a misstep on this path leads inevitably to insanity and dispersion of consciousness.




we are broken. But like all things natural, we have mechanisms that wish to repair this malfunction.





There are inherent disconnects between the reality we encompass and the reality we experience internally. This is largely the fault of our imperfect biological mechanisms for interacting with our environments. Many modern occultists place the blame squarely on the bicameral, divided, mind itself. The problem is in your own head. And so is the solution, supposedly. The tantric pathways, both sexual and otherwise, seemingly exist in an effort to rebalance the nervous system, to integrate the brain properly. It is believed that much of the seeming occult symbolism of the "Towers" relates rather to human polarity, rather than divine interdimensional portals. A more syncretic approach to occultism [as my own, say] might regard both of these as being equally possibly true, all the moreso if one belives that "As Below, so Above". A materialist magician may regard the "contact" experience as being no more than the other side of one's own brain attempting to tell one something. For those of us who regard the brain itself as being no more than an extension of "the above", this answer is insufficient, but leads in the proper general direction. Assume for the moment that all of this lunar/solar symbolism in the obviously mostly sexual post-alchemy is in fact about making sure your right and hand and left hand are on the same page. Assume that opening the third eye is really about making sure that your strong eye doesn't dominate.

now look at the picture of the mark of the beast again [the one on the pillow that looks like a penis]

then:





notice anything familiar?
Please carefully notice how I haven't given away any OTO secrets. I managed this, because they are irrelevant, and can be skipped over entirely. [fuck you bill breeze, and the whore that rode you in]





In another thread on this board, regarding psychadaelics I believe, someone brought up the subject of staring, that is, intense eye-contact for prolonged periods and its tendencies to result in symptoms not unlike the "acid-hive-mind" common to both prolongation of both tantra and hallucingen exposure. To paraphrase Jesus again, regarding the "fourth man" effect "where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I, in the midst of them". along with hand to hand contact, this staring is an important element in many Gnostic rites of the early e.v., significantly, variations of the aforemention Consolamentum.











2 = 0 = 1 ???

Thanks to whomever I stole these pictures of. Apologies for the kool aid guy. I just liked the picure, I think from the images thread.








If chickens are psychic enough to fuck up robots....






What happens when you attempt to "platform" a couple hundred millions simultaneously?
What kind of psychic ripple effect would result?
Cui Bono?

[note the picture above is of Chronozon(as a Moloch) by Crowley]

Well, I've talked about sex, drugs, and magic enough for one night. Maybe I'll go do some now.
Maybe we can still get into the "stargate"/SRI/Egregore aspect of all this before too much longer, as there are still dozens of onion layers there worth peeling apart.

I noticed noones really commented on the bulk of my original post,
which I feel is the closest deconstruction of how 9/11 was paved that I've seen online...I only added the "woo" on the end, because I feel that there is an uncanny esoteric aspect to 9/11 both symbolic and otherwise that seems too ubiquitous to be coincidental.

Well, sorry bout that. I only came for the woo, personally. While I tend to agree with the VAST majority of your parapolitickings, it isn't my field. I don't proselytize. And in my circles, generally, some variation on the CT wavelength is sort of assumed. I guess once the woo has already gotten you, finding out Al Qaeda is CIA isn't as much of a shock. I just sort of took it for granted from the beginning that this was an "inside" job. My own personal experiences of the day lead me to my beliefs regarding its use as ritual in a more than the usual psyops sense. Don't regard my not discussing it as a lack of interest, though.

Ubiquitous is a good word for it. I would've said "holographic" maybe, but its not quite perfect....more speculation in this direction later.

Love is the Law,
Love under Will.

[geogeo]

Well, I'm gratified to see more discussion on the esoteric dimension of 9-11. For the purpose of argument, I'm going to take a materialist approach that goes only as far as allowing that the 'magic' of 9-11 was the searing of images into the human collective unconscious, and leave out the New Agey interpretations and any actual traffic in spirits. Not to say these weren't intended or possible, but I'll stick to the possibility that we're dealing with seriously deluded and evil human beings whose magic techniques are in the realm of technology and symbol creation.

Occam's razor: the numbers used are not popular in occultism other than in Thelema, and the master number is 11 in that system. 93 and 77 have been explicated; 175 is equated with Astarte.

Liber Legis is the only true "channelled" Crowley material, and he never understood--nor, I daresay, to most Thelemites. First, by applying a modicum of skepticism, Crowley could easily have been set up, with Rose Kelly (hell, even the name--Edward Kelley to Dee) leading him to "666" and all that. Crowley appears to have been quite gullible, and may have been set up by Mathers, if not in league with Papus, to be the one--the charismatic, loud-mouthed, psychopathic one--to receive a new doctrine of the 'black brotherhood', as you call it. I prefer to call it the 'Council of 11' just for sake of effect. Like the semi-legendary druidic order loosely associated with the Hellfire clubs (Monks of Medmenham).

Now, Crowley himself never actually could recall exactly how things went down with "Aiwass", except that he says he never looked, though he 'gained an impression' of how the fellow appeared. Right. He was so gullible, could easily have been someone simply standing there in some garb, dictating the text. That cannot be disproved.

A lot of these charismatic occultist, particularly during the Revival, were picked, sometimes by the 'Unknown Superiors'--look at Hund, and he waited for them to come, and they never did.

Let's say they're picked by synarchists (and here I'll reference the excellent debunking 'The Sion Revelation' by Picknett and Prince--read together with their Stargate Conspiracy), whose stated goals are to work within all systems of government to create a world government, apparently centered on Europe, and probably the hexagon (6 to our 5), France. They specialize in creating incredibly elaborate backstories such as the Priory of Sion, and apparently in all sorts of elaborate lineages and religious/occult beliefs in the end of the world. But anyway, the LL appears to be something written largely by plagiarizing others' ideas, with particular reference to Abramelin the Mage, von Welling, of course Rabelais via the Hellfires, and etc.

We have a text that sets up a religion particularly attractive to the elite, and subsequent movement to infiltrate the military and so forth with the project of bringing about the NWO. Problem is Crowley et al. thought that they literally meant a 'child' as in a human child, but whatever. Anyway, forward in time there is certainly room for all this to grow and flower in the 20th century, with the first significant 11 date used for the end of WWI. That date, of course, marks the beginning of the carnival season in Germany and elsewhere, but it's in specific reference to St. Martin of Tours day, 11/11, and he's of course the patron saint of France (one of them) and of the Merovingians. This takes us right back to the synarchists, in that their roots go back to the theurgy and thaumaturgy of 'la chose', the calling forth of spirits as practiced by the Elus-Cohens of Martinez Pasqually in the 1700s (same time as Gold-und-Rosenkreuz and other ceremonial magic lodges in Europe), and of course St. Martin himself, 'founder' in a sense of Martinism.

11 has very few connections, compared to 10, 12, or 13, so why would it have been picked by Papus and the Synarchists--whose stated goals were to take over the world via infiltration of all governments and belief systems, following on a current and probably direct lineage at least since the time of Bruno, if not as far back as Ficino in Florence? 11 is seen as teh number of fools in relation to the German carnival season, and you have the symbolism of the 'anti-government', the mockery of kings--BTW, direct precursor of 9-11 was the French Revolution (that's the most likely root of '93', as in the novel of Victor Hugo, NOT a leader of the fictitious Priory of Sion, but certainly an accomplished occultist or at least fellow traveler).

Most likely it's the occultist lineage of these deeply power-hungry and often 'Satanic' 18th-century societies responsible in large part for both the French Revolution at 9-11, and other events of this type (Steiner wrote about the 'lodges' behind WWI). These are broadly referred to as 'hermetic masonry' and they were/are 1)playing with forces they don't understand, a la Dee, so 2) could easily have been tools of demonic forces, or in a non-allegorical way released these forces into the world, or 3) realized this is hogwash, but use it for mind control, 'animal magnetism, etc.--these tendencies go way back, 4) are all tied to each other, are constantly engaging in battles with one another, and use Masonry as a front, 5) often involve the upper elites--royalty, of course, but also the financiers (Rothschilds joined lodges early 1800s).

Liber Legis is highly derivative, particularly now that we are getting access to so many major occult texts online that Mathers and his ilk drew from. There is the whole mystery of the cipher manuscript itself, but of course the HOGD purported to not be interested in political maneuvering, and I don;t think even OTO or AA did any of that very well--but the synarchists and this whole current I'm talking about certainly did--that was the whole point of their existence. So it doesn't matter if mainstream Thelemites are focused on loving under will and on themselves, and wouldn't think of crashing planes into towers; mainstream Christians wouldn't think of using the power of the pope to make king and conquer the world either; theres' always a separation. At some level, Thelema became the Mithras cult of the military-intelligence world--hell, htere was time, via the SOE and etc. to include this in the very creation of the CIA, via OSS in WWII.

The number 11, to return to that--'give us our 11 days' was the slogan used in England in the 1700s to protest the changeover to the Gregorian calendar, and there is a neat tie-in to the Hellfire club here (whose symbol was, of course, Harpocrates (Horus) (Crowley's Aeon of Horus--that's borrowed from a very popular occult current of the 1700/1800s?) via a painter who incorporated the slogan, but that's a side track. Anyway, we know that one thing Jose Arguelles is correct about--the control of the calendar is control over mass consciousness, it is control over the measuring of time itself, and this business of the 11 days may be significant, as it was to the Hellfires (the pal was of course Ben Franklin, as I assume you know)--somehow, at some point, and this is shrouded in secercy, but we managed to end up with the purported end of the aeon at 11:11 on Dec. 21, 2012--now, if I can get you to believe that the "11:11 current" (Google it) is all about aliens or other dimensions, then you'll buy all of this as the galactic Maya planning this in reverse, and 11 is the cosmic number, etc. But again, I'm acting on the idea that this has very material, concrete roots related to the occult/elite/royalist concepts of European secret societies (who, after all, had a large part to do with the conquest of the world through colonialism, and th creation of global economy, via the Rothschilds et al., with semi-mythic roots in the Templars), so I'm thinking 11, as their number is related to a root-concept, a carefully guarded idea that 5+6=11, i.e., the pentagon (US, Sirius, etc., possibly Anglo world) married to the hexagon (France) will result in NWO, or something of the sort. That this 11:11 is related to St. Martin and Martinism, and that any entity capable of creating the Priory of Sion myth (again, via Picknett and Prince, who are more rigorous than most academics I know) while the same folks are creating a united Europe, as stated and planned, and quite obviously what will become the center of NWO.

P&P also mention the way that surrealist art is related to occultism, and how hoaxing was a part of surrealism and also a part of occultism! That is to say, in the synarchist blend of politics and the occult, insider jokes are rife and rampant. This is certainly the case in 9-11, where these multiply even beyond the intentions of the doers.

So, 9-11--ushering in the Aeon of Horus, as I have previously stated? As OP ED says, maybe it's the opposite. But I think it was exactly as we assumed it was, an attack on America, meant to read by hermetic lodges, by initiates, not by us, who are beside the point. Perhaps the message was that Sirius and all that have had their day, that for us this is the beginning of the end, that we have served our purpose. We have to track forward 11 years, to 2012, and the building New Age hysteria over the Maya end-times, and the building hysteria over all these other threats and 'threats.' Perhaps those at our end who allowed this to happen did so because they were convinced that this was the birth of the child, because it would allow the US military-industrial complex free rein, the War on Terror, all that. But at the other end, in the metropole, this was a great joke, because of course OBL himself, it was said, designed it to drag us into a war we could never recover from. OBL's words were put into his mouth by deep-thinking, deep-analyzing European mystics? At this end, dumb old Americans bought it hook line and sinker, just as we always do. At the other end, with centuries of global administration under their belts, they look down their noses at us and our simplicity, and realize how useful we'll be.

To put it more simply--the NWO is already here in the form of the United Europe. This was a project of synarchists, and it was Mitterand in France who had a major hand in this coming about. All that remains is to use the might of the US against itself and against mutual enemies.

One more point--I see John O'Neill as an initiatve, quite likely (though it is impossible to find out) not actually dying in the twin towers collapse (only his friend Bauer could id him). O'Neill was a mysterious dude, nicknamed 'Satan' by some of his coworkers, seen as the spider at the center of the intelligence web, and, if you go back over the whole Frontline program materials on him, you'll see how he spins the Osama myth (OBL is almost his alter ego) and maneuvers himself to New York, to where 9-11 was planned (counter-terrorism office of FBI), and actually into the friggin buildings themselves, via the 'CIA of Wall Street'. Hell, there's even several obvious double-agent things he does (the briefcase bit, for example, straight out of a spy movie!), but anyway, here's a guy no one knew, really (how many women did he have who didn't even know about each other?) who knew everyone who was anyone in New York City, who had a magnetic personality, even has a mysterious Catholic priest in his background, and he practically browbeats folks into believing OBL is behind all the build-up events (even though OBL never admits anything and the cases fall apart, viz. Cole). He rushes to Yemen to clean that one up, and the ambassador comes out looking bad.

For my money, O'Neill is laughing somewhere right now, superspy and initiate.

But like all of what I've written, it's a fable. I'm an American, and all Americans can only tell lies.

[OP ED]

good thoughts geogeo.

for my part, as one who has cleaned ectoplasm off my shoes [and the wall, and the dog...] on more than one occassion, I cannot comfortably argue from a purely materialist position unless ones' definitions of materialism are fairly flexible [like an olympic gymnast].

Clearly, I don't tend to regard Aleister as being as gullible as you seem to think. I'm also not certain from what viewpoint you regard him as not "understanding" LL. Although I'd suggest he didn't grasp it in its entirety until at least 1909. It also wasn't the only channelled work used by Thelema. The context of the other documents' receipt isn't something you've likely come across however, as they have never been available publically. Indeed, it is likely that the vast majority of OTO members don't even know they exist.

Contextually, LL cannot be understood without reference to 418. Besides being a much better written text, 418 explains the contents of AL better than any of the commentaries ever written [save perhaps Motta's]. Many of the memes commonly associated with AL and Thelema originate in this text, rather than in LL ["Babalon", for example, never appears in LL, indeed, is an Enochian word]. Crowley's system is nothing more or less than a continuation of that established by Dee and Kelly's work. This is explicitly stated in the Equinox commentaries on 418.

Horus is selected for very obvious reasons. Most of these are old occult memes which are familiar to moderns regardless of the fact that they are largely unaware of their origin. This is also is the star cult. Horus is [in Egypt, GD, etc] the god set over the constellation of Aquarius. The Horus Aeon is the EXACT same thing as the age of aquarius. This of course also means that it hasn't actually started yet. we still have a couple years.

I'm not sure as to where some of your assertions arise [Crowley believing in a literal Child, etc] so I am uncertain of how to comment on these.

I dunno P&P, but I am also interested in the connections between surrealist art and occultism, although I tend to draw my comparisons specifically between various "futurist" techniques and those of HOGD and OTO [etc] as can be seen by some of the links I provided previously in this thread. The are distinct practical elements in common between these techniques and their various results.

Almost certainly the majority of the participants did so for purely material benefit and/or misguided "illuminist" goals. The Black Lodge rarely advertises itself and its aims as such.

I still look at this as an abortion attempt. I also do not think it worked.

Indeed, despite its materialist goals coming together, I think it is having rather the opposite effect on the psyche as was intended. Of course, Blake could've warned them about this.

Love is Law,
SHCR 8

[Perelandra]

the conclusions of Mr. Icke aren't often what I'd draw from his neat little piles, but this doesn't detract from the neatness of the piles.

The quotes to which your comment refer were musings about the work of Jake Kotze and his Stargate synchromysticisms, not Icke, just fyi.

for Perelandra:

Why, thank you, a lovely gift.

I'm trying to follow this thread along when I can and finding it all very interesting. I just don't have enough time to read all that I do AND make lengthy comments, but appreciate everyone else's.

OP ED, because you mentioned the Age of Aquarius, I thought I'd throw in something that I found out awhile ago.

After being in earth signs for almost 200 years, the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction of 1980 was in an air sign (Libra). In 2000, it went back into an earth sign (Taurus). The Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will return to an air sign in 2020 (Aquarius) and remain in air sign for the better part of two centuries. Many of the upsetting changes which are taking place in the world today can be linked not just to the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction, but to its transition from the earth element to the air element.

I read in Hamlet's Mill that the new age is begun by the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in that sign. As we see from the above, this will occur in 2020. When I looked up 2020 in the ephemeris to double-check, I was surprised to find that the date when this aspect is exact is...December 21, in 0 degrees.

Just an aside, maybe interesting only to me.

[geogeo]

OP ED --

Picknett and Prince's works are really excellent, in that they are believers in the occult themselves, but also quite good at revealing parapolitical misuse of esoteric thought and action. Highly recommended.

I think your black lodge failed largely because, as always, it cannot control the real chaos (emergent) even though every attempt is made to figure 'us' out. Despite social engineering, despite all sorts of mind control, despite the very bases--control of space and time--'the people' will do what they will, and there are far too many of us now with far too much freedom. At least, I believe that is what stands between us and the NWO. Clearly Flight 93 was a failure, as their holy guardian angel was, I suspect, meant to hit the Capitol, symbolically eliminating representative government.

The anthrax attack, if it's related, was also apparently a failure.

The War on Terror, like all America's wars, was also a failure with the American people, who couldn't really give a shit. And I live and work at a public college deep, deep, deep within the red-white-blue heartland, so I'm not talking about the liberal elites of rimland here.

But, I don't think it means that they won't try again--I am most worried about 11/11/11, and of course 12/21/2012 and 11:11 Pm (now how the Hell did 'they' fix THAT time of day for the Winter solstice, if not from deep within the time-standard, very secretive, US government agency responsible for such things?)

I believe I will feel quite liberated in 2013, if no more of these Aeon-changing events comes to pass...

About Crowley, I meant that he thought that there had to literally be a woman and a child of some sort. But as for LL, the first admonition was not to interpret it, I believe. Yes, I've read his interpretations, and some of them are quite befuddled. What are we to make out of finding an island and dunging it about with enginery of war? All I'm saying is it is certainly not difficult, from the outside looking in, to exclude the possibility that Crowley was naive and LL was simply narrated to him by a human being. The response that Thelemites I've talked to have given me--that each is to interpret it in his/her own way--seems beside the point. Each is to interpret the bible differently, but that doesn't stop many from interpreting Revelation in a literal and wolrd-ending fashion, with drastic conseuences for the rest of us.

good thoughts geogeo.


I still look at this as an abortion attempt. I also do not think it worked.

Indeed, despite its materialist goals coming together, I think it is having rather the opposite effect on the psyche as was intended. Of course, Blake could've warned them about this.

Love is Law,
SHCR 8

[OP ED]

bumped for vigilant, and also to remind me to respond to geo, as I'd forgotten and I was sooo close to being done with this thread, too.

[8bitagent]

bumped for vigilant, and also to remind me to respond to geo, as I'd forgotten and I was sooo close to being done with this thread, too.

I reread some of your last long picture/info linked posts on this thread...and I can barely get my head around some of the information and ideas you're positing. Consider that a compliment...

One has to wonder, how you'll rap this thread up...you're summation.

I don't want people to think I believe that some old gentleman's club with funny hats and secret handshakes contains old white men "Illuminati" members behind all the world's events.

But there's...something...something, that just can't be explained by
conventional reasoning. Something so in your face, but we dare not raise the question.

Which brings us back to the why's.
Unless Mohamed Atta and his gang were qabbalist number guys with
a hankering for esoteric Egyptian allegory...

Why the Twin Towers. Why the Pentagon. Why 11, 77 and 93.
Why September 11th 2001? What is the real desired effect?
And...whom or *what* might this all point too?

[nathan28]

i'm bumping this--i have some commentary here as well but have got to spend eight hours driving. You know, doing my part to bring on Peak Oil Apocalypse.

[geogeo]

Don't forget that the history of civilization is the history of belief in a higher power, embodied in or flowing through an elite, guiding the cosmos in a certain direction, generally toward some apotheosis for at least the Elect (and a holocaust for the rest...). The Western occultists didn't make this up, they simply were at slight variance from that 2K-old institution that has establishes, effectively, the Deity's rule on Earth, the Roman Catholic Church.

The only difference now is that humanism and rationalism, thanks to the cynicism of your Erasmuses, your Voltaires and Descartes, chose to belittle and ignore the mystic bases that proper up power in the West (or anywhere) so there's a bit of an anti-conspiracy trend in thinking since 1789 (watershed date).

The American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Holy Alliance, the 3rd Republic, World War I, World War II--their roots and directions were all heavily influence by 'occultists' but also by movements within the Catholic Church (and other churches, needless to say). Of course history has diminished and sidelined their importance--that's the whole point. And yes, organized speculative Freemasonry did serve as the haven or breeding ground for the plans and projects that set us on our recent track of development, which picked up in the mid-1700s. And they were influenced by theurgy -- i.e. 'deities' were telling them what to do, a la the Elus Cohens -- just like had always happened. Indeed, the occultists we so often read about were generally the 'enlightened' ones; the courts and dioceses of Europe were saturated with prophets, seers, saints, and the like in whom the holy 'appointed' leaders would place their faith. It is a credit to Agrippa that his enlightened system was largely ignored (though not for lack of his trying) as was Paracelsus; Dee was taken a little more seriously, for a time (enough time to provide the evidence from the astral plane that England needed an Empire).

Nothing's changed, except that we proles tend to think that this whole 'relgion' thing for people like Bush is vague and has nothing to do with theurgy--in other words, it's the same sort of praying that run-of-the-mill Christians do (or like Ma Theresa did) which got no direct answer.

We've been summoning our own subconscious, talking to our hive mind, because through history we always get the same answer -- Unite, You are all One, I am You... What else would we say? Not too long ago, we were all one. The big secret...the hive mind recycles its memories through human bodies, perhaps--hence the belief that the high priest of mysticism Louis Claude de Saint-Martin was Saint Martin of Tours reincarnated (a carefully kept secret in synarchic Martinism); hence the importance of 11 and 11-11.

[OP ED]

bumped for vigilant, and also to remind me to respond to geo, as I'd forgotten and I was sooo close to being done with this thread, too.

I reread some of your last long picture/info linked posts on this thread...and I can barely get my head around some of the information and ideas you're positing. Consider that a compliment...

One has to wonder, how you'll rap this thread up...you're summation.

I don't want people to think I believe that some old gentleman's club with funny hats and secret handshakes contains old white men "Illuminati" members behind all the world's events.

But there's...something...something, that just can't be explained by
conventional reasoning. Something so in your face, but we dare not raise the question.

Which brings us back to the why's.
Unless Mohamed Atta and his gang were qabbalist number guys with
a hankering for esoteric Egyptian allegory...

Why the Twin Towers. Why the Pentagon. Why 11, 77 and 93.
Why September 11th 2001? What is the real desired effect?
And...whom or *what* might this all point too?

Thank you, I suppose. Though I aim to cause much less confusion,/obfuscation with my further points in a future post. I can sympathize with nathan28 as I drove 450 miles in 9 hours around/across the ohio river valley before drving (not in a straight line) home and then about another 100 miles north, in order to make it to a [!S.S.S.S.S.S.S.!] Solsticed event/collaboration/festivice. (I'm a sun worshipper, for Christ's sake, you know? Glykon Praised!) As it was, traffic was lite and/or no state policemen (got the weekend off cause have to work 4 Julyish ?) so I had time to spare. The people hosting it tend to secrecy/privacy, so invitations are rare, and i couldn't pass it up. They actually invited me to the dawn rite, but there was no way I could've made it (not if i'd left the exact moment i found out about it) in time. I was required/invited (my acceptance/invitation were entwined) to perform the adoration evocation. (Crowley suggests everyone memorize them and then adapted them for personal use. of little use to non-sun-worshippers) I have to go to Gibraltar (an indoor flea market place) to pick up some tiles (and rugs, etc, for business) today, as they won't be open again till next friday and i need the stuff by wednesday. i should be around later, as i've run so much recently i intend to do basically physically nothing for a couple days (mow my grass, maybe).

i owe geo a proper comment on his points, as he always has important angles to consider in these areas. (that is a compliment) I'll certainly get to that shortly, as i have no excuse to continue to do otherwise.

afterward, well. nevermind. bridges. crossed. when arrived at, etc.

have a pleasunt sunday.

LIL,
R; S,H.C. (aKa DaNieL) [[ XIX ]] {S.O.H.P.C.E.R.D}


12:45 (or so) Sunday 6/22/08 e.v. Sol/Gemini :: hele Pollux