Pay no mind to the Mossad agent on the line

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:06 pm

Whenever you look at the dancing Israelis story you will inevitably hear the assertion that "the FBI concluded at least two were Mossad agents," and it is attributed to The Forward. Well let's see eactly what was said.

However, a counterintelligence investigation by the FBI concluded that at least two of them were in fact Mossad operatives, according to the former American official, who said he was regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israelis_9-11.html

(secondary source used since orinal source = page not found)

The rest of the articles deals with the many official FBI denials of this as does the ABC link mentioned before.

So what do we have? Some unnamed guy, in an unnamed position, telling us what the FBI really thinks.

What really amuses and CONCERNS me is that people who would ordinarily trust the FBI as far as they could throw them would lap up the alleged "real FBI opinion," by some ghost guy who relays the always trustworthy words of "two separate law enforcement officials." Surely I'm not the only one here who finds that weird. am I? I mean how does that work Rigorously Intuitively?
unaltered
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:26 pm

unaltered wrote:
8bitagent wrote: and people who question 9/11 but think any questioning of Israeli linkage to 9/11 is "anti Semitic".


I don't think ANY questioning is antisemitic; just continued use of lame "facts," which can't pass the smell test and Jew counting which offers only arm chair detective work with no smoking gun other than a generalized antisemitic starting point that Israel MUST HAVE done it because Israelis were (gasp) IN NEW YORK----IN HOLLYWOOD FLA.----OWNED BUSINESSES----etc. And those who weren't Israelis were JEWS so they MUST be Mossad spies and Israeli agents of EVIL!!!!

Anyone who can't see the obvious antisemitism in this is ignorant or protests too much.


Um, what are Israeli spies doing in America to begin with? Didnt an American get life in prison for spying for Israel?

And there's NOTHING fishy about Israeli spies in the summer of 2001 living two blocks from the 9/11 hijackers?

GM Citizen wrote:
I believe that the tide is turning, ever so slowly, and that the use of some of those labels, ie., anti-semite, no longer has a ring of authenticity to it. Nowadays when you hear the cry of "anti-semite" a person may just as well be inclined to wonder what information the crier wants to keep you away from.


I agree, like I've said I think the first layer of the 9/11 event was to make sure that questioning 9/11=anti Semitic(hence how the first theories were anti Jewish)

BUT...I have to say, there's a LOT of people who overly focus on "Zionist this, Zionist that"...some, who go further and use terms like "Crypto Jew", and do have a very anti Semitic slant to them

unaltered wrote:The much touted "leaked DEA document," quoted by so many Jew counters states that the DEA was suspicious of and began questioning these Super Jews as early as the beginning of 2000.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/timeli ... a0601.html

Yet the Super Mossad Jews supposedly CONTINUED their activities for a year and a half after blowing their cover. Not only that but over in NYC they "danced," in public bringing immediate attention to themselves.

I would suggest this is more like a Carry On movie or Monty Python sketch of spies than the demeanour of Super Mossad Spies. Counting these Jews is comical, yet that apparently doesn't phase the Jew Counters.


Ok, well everytime I reference the CIA or Bush Im gonna say the WHITE CHRISTIANS:)

I won't say Pakistani Intelligense, I'll say PAKISTANI MUSLIMS. :)

Lemme guess, Jimmy Carter is a virulent Jew hating anti Semite for criticizing Israel?

You act like there's no difference between "Jews did 9/11, Jews didnt show up for WTC work" and looking into Israeli spy rings in 1997-2001 America
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:38 pm

unaltered wrote:I mean how does that work Rigorously Intuitively?


It works that way because the CIA, not the FBI, was in the loop on 911:

Peter Dale Scott wrote:As for 9/11, the paradox between surface tranquility and alarming warnings is as evident as it was in 1950. Even the 9/11 Commission Report acknowledges that in the summer of 2001 "the system was blinking red" for an al-Qaeda attack. Its record amply refutes Condoleezza Rice’s claim in May 2002 that "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would … try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile." Yet in the midst of this crisis the CIA in August 2001 was flagrantly withholding crucial evidence from the FBI that, if shared, would have assisted the FBI in its current efforts to locate one of the alleged hijackers, Khaled al-Mihdar. This withholding provoked an FBI agent to predict at that time, accurately, that "someday someone will die."

...this culpable withholding of crucial evidence from the FBI by the CIA closely parallels the CIA’s withholding from the FBI of important information about Lee Harvey Oswald in October 1963. Former FBI Director Clarence Kelley in his memoir later complained that this withholding was the major reason why Oswald was not put under surveillance on November 22, 1963. Without these withholdings, in other words,

neither the Kennedy assassination nor 9/11 could have unfolded in the manner in which they did.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:48 pm

You act like there's no difference between "Jews did 9/11, Jews didnt show up for WTC work" and looking into Israeli spy rings in 1997-2001 America


I've tried to explain I don't but if you MUST feel that way, go ahead.

And yes, I do think there is nothing fishy about Art students who were never proven to be any more than that living 8 tenths of a mile away from terrorists. I mean I try and imagine why Super Mossad would continue to use a busted operation for a year and a half like fucking Keystone cops and I try to imagine how much easier it is to spy from 8 tenths of a mile away when it would be more professional and easier for Super Mossads to get closer but it just eludes me. Stupid Mossad comes closer to mind than Super Mossad but who knows just how the Jewish mind operates, right?

So, for me, the art student dancing Israeli shit is still shit. And because it has become so integral to the "looking into Israeli spy rings," as part of the 9/11 narrative as witnessed here by the huge need for some to see it stay in the narrative despite its obvious stupidity, I don't trust any alleged "looking into," which hinges on shit.

I have already stated that yes Israelis probably DO spy on America and vice versa and I have never once mentioned the 4000 warned Jews you keep hammering away at except in a passing refernce to the origins of Arab urban myths so what the fuck else do you want of me?
unaltered
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:53 pm

barracuda wrote:
unaltered wrote:I mean how does that work Rigorously Intuitively?


It works that way because the CIA, not the FBI, was in the loop on 911:

Peter Dale Scott wrote:As for 9/11, the paradox between surface tranquility and alarming warnings is as evident as it was in 1950. Even the 9/11 Commission Report acknowledges that in the summer of 2001 "the system was blinking red" for an al-Qaeda attack. Its record amply refutes Condoleezza Rice’s claim in May 2002 that "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would … try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile." Yet in the midst of this crisis the CIA in August 2001 was flagrantly withholding crucial evidence from the FBI that, if shared, would have assisted the FBI in its current efforts to locate one of the alleged hijackers, Khaled al-Mihdar. This withholding provoked an FBI agent to predict at that time, accurately, that "someday someone will die."

...this culpable withholding of crucial evidence from the FBI by the CIA closely parallels the CIA’s withholding from the FBI of important information about Lee Harvey Oswald in October 1963. Former FBI Director Clarence Kelley in his memoir later complained that this withholding was the major reason why Oswald was not put under surveillance on November 22, 1963. Without these withholdings, in other words,

neither the Kennedy assassination nor 9/11 could have unfolded in the manner in which they did.


So it's rah rah FBI and unnamed former American officials of an unnamed organizations quoting 2 unnamed law enforcement officials?

Yeah, ok.
unaltered
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:04 pm

What's this Mossad stuff? We're mostly talking about the very proven network of Israeli spies in America from 1997 til 2001.

And Im sure if the Israeli spies lived right next door to Mohamed Atta and company, it'd still just be a big coinkydink too:)

Tell us, why did Netanyahu on September 12th 2001 and 3 weeks ago plainly state(according to Haaretz) that "9/11 was very good for Israel"
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:17 pm

Um, what are Israeli spies doing in America to begin with?


Every country in the world tries to maintain a ring of spies in the capitals of every other country in the world, if they can afford it. The richer and more powerful countries dispatch larger rings, and are accordingly host to larger rings from abroad.

I have been authorized to reveal that in the mystic international spy lingo, the major safe houses for these rings go under the codewords "embassy" and "consulate."

I see no contradiction in believing that

A) Israel runs spy rings, as well as mafias and intimidation rackets like any other junior empire, and that the "Art Students" and "Dancing Israelis" and "Urban Movers" probably were such (or ecstasy dealers, but, ahem, aren't we always talking here about how spooks and drugs are often connected?),

but at the same time also believing that

B) the idea that this was the operative end of the 9/11 op is ridiculous.

Because, you see, most of the "Art Students" were rounded up and deported before 9/11 - this is surely the most important fact about them that for some reason, almost never gets play. The rest were taken afterward in the general sweep of suspicious Middle Easterners.

They may have intentionally been deployed as a red herring. They may have been the ones who gathered the information about a list of 19 (!) prospective terrorists that the Mossad then passed on to the CIA in August 2001, a list which included the same four ring-leaders named by Able Danger and, later, as the ringleaders of the Official Story.

Or they may have been doing something else and ended up associated with 9/11 inadvertantly. Or both.

In the end, I see Bush sitting in that classroom, not at all wondering what the hell Card meant and looking guilty as sin, while the Secret Service and WHMO and the rest of the entourage go ahead with the photo op as scheduled to the minute, and then the Pentagon gets hit 51 minutes after the first tower, on a morning when the military and other agencies had incidentally scheduled wargames and drills to rehearse multiple domestic hijackings, planes hitting buildings in Washington, an emergency in New York and a nuckular war with the Russians. And afterwards no one in the chain of command can get their mutually exclusive AWOL stories straight about where they were or what they did, but three years later the Commission fixes that for them by inventing a single timeline that exonerates them all as stupid, just in time for an American election in which, as usual, Stupid Wins. But they are ready to seize the enabling event with every tentacle, launch two invasions planned in advance, declare a permanent global state of war, shift trillions of dollars on behalf of their corporations and friends, transform how the society and its politics are defined, and implement nearly every inch of an agenda they had ready but could not have effected otherwise.

That tells me a whole universe already about who is obviously involved, at the top levels of the official US government, which is a great place to be at the start of investigating what happened, since more often you need to trace your way up from some dimestore burglary up through many levels of fog to the Burglar-in-Chief, and thus I don't have to speculate about whether some Israelis several leagues down the food chain were really dancing when the Jersey cops nabbed them.
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:24 pm

8bitagent wrote:

Tell us, why did Netanyahu on September 12th 2001 and 3 weeks ago plainly state(according to Haaretz) that "9/11 was very good for Israel"


He didn't. I addressed that in another post here.
unaltered
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:29 pm

8bitagent wrote:Tell us, why did Netanyahu on September 12th 2001 and 3 weeks ago plainly state(according to Haaretz) that "9/11 was very good for Israel"


Because, duh. I guess hypocrisy's not his biggest fault.

Tell us, why did Bush say, as part of his standard joke routine when speaking to Republican crowds for months after Sept. 11, "Lucky me - guess I hit the trifecta"?

Even more impressively, why did the embryonic pre-Bush Regime (aka Project for a New American Century) tell you exactly what they were planning geostrategically more than a year in advance?

Why did Hitler write Mein Kampf?

Getting things done requires an astonishing amount of truth telling among power and its allies and soldiers in public fora, which is another reason why the media drown it all out every day with the next Shiny Object.

(Gotta go back to the continuing National State of Mourning over Russert.)
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:41 pm

JackRiddler wrote:In the end, I see Bush sitting in that classroom, not at all wondering what the hell Card meant and looking guilty as sin, while the Secret Service and WHMO and the rest of the entourage go ahead with the photo op as scheduled to the minute, and then the Pentagon gets hit 51 minutes after the first tower, on a morning when the military and other agencies had incidentally scheduled wargames and drills to rehearse multiple domestic hijackings, planes hitting buildings in Washington, an emergency in New York and a nuckular war with the Russians. And afterwards no one in the chain of command can get their mutually exclusive AWOL stories straight about where they were or what they did, but three years later the Commission fixes that for them by inventing a single timeline that exonerates them all as stupid, just in time for an American election in which, as usual, Stupid Wins. But they are ready to seize the enabling event with every tentacle, launch two invasions planned in advance, declare a permanent global state of war, shift trillions of dollars on behalf of their corporations and friends, transform how the society and its politics are defined, and implement nearly every inch of an agenda they had ready but could not have effected otherwise.

That tells me a whole universe already about who is obviously involved, at the top levels of the official US government, which is a great place to be at the start of investigating what happened, since more often you need to trace your way up from some dimestore burglary up through many levels of fog to the Burglar-in-Chief, and thus I don't have to speculate about whether some Israelis several leagues down the food chain were really dancing when the Jersey cops nabbed them.

Agreed. But this doesn't mean looking into Mossad's role (which likely was simply as an onlooker) is without merit or off-limits. When I hear this:
unaltered wrote:I don't trust any alleged "looking into,"

I have a knee-jerk reaction to "look into".

Justin Raimondo's early article, "9/11: WHAT DID ISRAEL KNOW? – and when did they tell us?" is a pretty expansive treatment of the subject.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:54 pm

.

I certainly followed Raimondo's work those first couple of years - until I knew it quasi by heart, since he repeated the same passages about the Art Students over and over as the "story of the century," as you may remember.

The central problem with Raimondo's take, and it is shared by the editors of Counterpunch among others, who you may remember landed a Democracy Now gig last year to promote Ketcham's "scoops" (able rewarming) of the Art Students and Israeli foreknowledge, is that at the same time Raimondo exposes Israeli links or at least lays out a narrative of intentional Mossad failure to warn the US about what they knew (largely based on the famous FOXNEWS series, ahem), he actively dismisses as absurd "conspiracy theory" the far larger, obvious and compelling bodies of evidence pointing to Bush regime and US spook-complex foreknowledge, facilitation and orchestration of the events. So let's not pretend it's all about people refusing to follow the possible Mossad links (as some do, just as others refuse to follow any trail that goes through Saudi Arabia or Pakistan even if it worms its way back West). On the contrary, there is a tight group of influential dissident writers who are willing to ask "what did Israel know and when did it know it," but who at the same time fling all the usual bedunker sophistry at anyone who asks what the Bush regime knew or did. Then there is the looser bunch of "ZIHOP" yahoos on the Count-the-Jews front a la Rivero of WhatReallyHappened, xymphora and the wtcdemolitions.com crew, who treat the Israeli connection as the only possible central plot and go ballistic on anyone who thinks USG doesn't automatically spell ZOG.

Why doesn't the French foreknowledge of what was going to happen inspire people to think France orchestrated 9/11?

Here's a good treatment of that by Hamden Rice of DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... _id=678886

American Media Completely Distorting Bombshell Le Monde 9/11 Report
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 02:20 PM by HamdenRice
I assume it's because so few Americans read French. I guess a wire service wrote a blurb about the French story, and American papers are summarizing the blurb rather than the original le Monde story.

I'm amazed at this Newsday "translation," of the Le Monde report that appeared Monday:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld ... ire/sns-...

<quote>

"But the French warning hinted at a plot in Europe, not the United States, and there was no suggestion of suicide attacks or multiple planes. One former official said al-Qaida may have leaked misinformation to divert intelligence agencies from the bigger, deadlier plot to come on Sept. 11, 2001.

The warning was another example of how intelligence agents sensed al-Qaida was hard at work in the months leading up to Sept. 11 but were unable to piece together fragmented warnings into a coherent plot.

<unquote>

Now compare that to what the Le Monde article actually says. I’ve tried to translate the French into idiomatic English so that it is easier to understand it. Words in brackets <> are either inserted to make sense or alternative translations of specific words:

<quote>

Dès janvier 2001, la direction d'Al-Qaida se montre néanmoins transparente aux yeux – et aux oreilles – des espions français. Les rédacteurs détaillent même les désaccords entre terroristes sur les modalités pratiques du détournement envisagé. Jamais ils ne doutent de leur intention. Provisoirement, les djihadistes privilégient la capture d'un avion entre Francfort et les Etats-Unis. Ils établissent une liste de sept compagnies possibles. Deux seront finalement choisies par les pirates du 11-Septembre : American Airlines et United Airlines (voir fac-similé). Dans son introduction, l'auteur de la note annonce : "Selon les services ouzbeks de renseignement, le projet d'un détournement d'avion semble avoir été discuté en début d'année 2000 lors d'une réunion à Kaboul entre des représentants de l'organisation d'Oussama Ben Laden…"

By January 2001, Al-Qaida’s direction, however, has become transparent to the eyes - and the ears - of French spies. The writers <of the French intelligence reports> even detail the operational disagreements between terrorists about how they envision the hijackings. They <the French intelligence report writers> never doubt the <terrorists’> intentions. For a while, the jihadists focus on hijacking a plane <en route> between Frankfurt and the United States. They draw up a list of seven possible airline companies. The pirates of 9/11 <ie hijackers> finally chose two: American Airlines and United Airlines (see facsimiled). In his introduction, the author of the note announces: “According to the Uzbek <intelligence> service’s information, the hijacking project seems to have been be discussed at the beginning of 2000 at a meeting in Kabul between representatives of Usama Bin Laden’s organization…”

Des espions ouzbeks renseignent donc les agents français. A l'époque, l'opposition des fondamentalistes musulmans au régime pro-américain de Tachkent s'est fédérée dans le Mouvement islamique d'Ouzbékistan, le MIO. Une faction militaire de ce parti, emmenée par un certain Taher Youdachev, a rejoint les camps d'Afghanistan et prêté allégeance à Oussama Ben Laden, lui promettant d'exporter son djihad en Asie centrale. Des livrets militaires et des correspondances du MIO, trouvés dans des camps afghans d'Al-Qaida, en attestent.

The Uzbek spies thus inform the French agents. During this period, Islamic fundamentalist opposition to the pro-American policy of <the Uzbek regime in> Tachkent, united to form the Islamic Movement of Ouzbékistan, the MIO. A military faction of this party, created by a certain Taher Youdachev, joined the <al Qaeda> camps in Afghanistan and pledged allegiance to Osama Bin Laden, promising him to export jihad to Central Asia <ie Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc>. Military records and correspondences of the MIO, found in Afghan Al-Qaida camps, confirm this.

Alain Chouet a gardé en mémoire cet épisode. Il a dirigé jusqu'en octobre 2002 le Service de renseignement de sécurité, la subdivision de la DGSE chargée de suivre les mouvements terroristes. Selon lui, la crédibilité du canal ouzbek trouve son origine dans les alliances passées par le général Rachid Dostom, l'un des principaux chefs de guerre afghans, d'ethnie ouzbek lui aussi, et qui combat alors les talibans. Pour plaire à ses protecteurs des services de sécurité de l'Ouzbékistan voisin, Dostom a infiltré certains de ses hommes au sein du MIO, jusque dans les structures de commandement des camps d'Al-Qaida. C'est ainsi qu'il renseigne ses amis de Tachkent, en sachant que ses informations cheminent ensuite vers Washington, Londres ou Paris.

Alain Chouet recalls this episode. Until October 2002, he was the director the Security Information Service, the subdivision of the DGSE charged with tracking terrorists' movements. According to him <ie Chouet, head of French counter-terrorism>, the credibility of the Uzbek channel originated in the past alliances of General Rachid Dostom, one of the principal Afghan warlords, who is also an ethnic Uzbek, and who was then fighting the Taliban. In order to please his protectors in the Uzbek security <ie intelligence?> service, he infiltrated some of his men in the heart of the MIO <ie the Uzbek jihadist organization being trained at Al Qaeda camps> up to the very command structure of the al Qaeda camps. Thus, he informed his friends in Tachkent <ie, the capital or government of Uzbekistan> with the knowledge that his information would proceed onwards to Washington, London or Paris.

La formulation de la note française de janvier 2001 indique clairement que d'autres sources corroborent ces renseignements sur les plans d'Al-Qaida. Selon un dispositif bien huilé en Afghanistan, la DGSE ne se contente pas d'échanges avec des services secrets amis. Pour percer les secrets des camps, d'une part elle manipule et "retourne" des jeunes candidats au djihad originaires des banlieues des grandes villes d'Europe. D'autre part, elle envoie des hommes du service action auprès de l'Alliance du Nord du commandant Massoud. Sans compter les interceptions des téléphones satellitaires.

The formulation of the French note of January 2001 states clearly that other sources corroborate this information within Al-Qaida. According to the well oiled <intelligence gathering> machine in Afghanistan, the DGSE was not satisfied with <information> exchanges with friendly secret services. In order to pierce the secrecy of the <al Qaeda> camps, it on the one hand, manipulated and “turned” <returned?> young male applicants for jihadist <training> from the suburbs of large European cities, <ie Muslim and North African ghettos> and on the other hand it stationed <French counter-terrorism intelligence operatives> with the Northern Alliance commander Massoud <ie Ahmed Shah Massoud, charismatic head of the Northern Alliance, who was murdered by a Taliban or al Qaeda camera bomb just two days before the 9/11 attacks began>. Not to mention intercepting satellite telephones.

<end quote>

The revelation here is the level of penetration into al Qaeda. The French have Uzbeks posing as jihadists in the command structure of al Qaeda; they have European born or based Muslims posing as jihadists in the al Qaeda camps; they are listening to their satellite conversations.

They have such sweeping and deep penetration of al Qaeda, that al Qaeda had become “transparent” to French intelligence. They even listen in to the jihadists debates about which airlines to strike and which airline routes to hijack. Their eyes and ears are there when it is decided months before 9/11 to hit American Airlines and United Airlines.

This is almost the complete opposite of the English language description of the article, which claims that the French had some information, but couldn’t put the pieces together.

All of this information was passed to the CIA Station Chief in Paris, Bill Murray, one of the highest ranking overseas CIA officers, one who is embedded in the heart of NATO’s intelligence structure – and incidentally who apppears to be a stand up guy who later would try to quash the Niger yellow cake hokum, a guy who thereafter retired (or was retired) from the agency, but is reluctant to talk to the press because his CIA “contracts” could be withdrawn in revenge.

Also unprecedented in the French report is the disclosure that the forces of Northern Alliance warlord General Rashid Dostum were a significant source of intelligence on al Qaeda before 9/11. You may recall that Gen. Dostum has been a destabilizing force in post Taliban Afghanistan, and was responsible for the massacre of surrendered Taliban forces after the seige of Kunduz, in which up to 1,000 surrendered insurgents were loaded in shipping containers and allowed to die of thirst and exposure, and many of the remainder were raked with machine gun fire when they screamed for water.

Other aspects of the English language translation and summary of the French news story are laughable. The Newsday version is that "But the French warning hinted at a plot in Europe, not the United States, and there was no suggestion of suicide attacks or multiple planes."

The original French version is that "And initially a surprise: the high number of notes devoted only to the threats of Al-Qaida against the United States, in the months before the suicide attacks in New York and Washington. Nine reports/ratios entirely on this subject between September 2000 and August 2001.

Do they think that we're that stupid? That everyone in the United States is too lazy to look at Le Monde's website, and that even if we did, not one of us can read French?

Now for my own speculation about why this Le Monde report is so important. If both French intelligence and the lowly Uzbek intelligence service and a Northern alliance warlord, Rashid Dostum, have penetrated al Qaeda up to the command structure, and if other friendly middle eastern intelligence services also warned the US of the 9/11 attacks, is it reasonable to believe these other intelligence agencies also penetrated al Qaeda so completely?

Is it reasonable to assume that Egyptian, Jordanian, Saudi or even Palestinian Authority intelligence might also have slipped some operatives into the Afghan al Qaeda camps to keep an eye on what was going on there? Might the Mossad during the closing era of good feelings between the Barak administration and the Palestinian Authority have slipped an operative or two into the al Qaeda camps? Wouldn't the Russians have slipped in a few "turned" or make believe Chechens and the Chinese a few fake Uyghurs? Might actual penetration of al Qaeda have been the source of the many warnings by foreign intelligence agencies about the impending attacks, and if so, were they more concrete than we have been led to believe?

Considering that even the lone American, John Walker Lindh, was able to walk into the training camps and get training, can we conclude that prior to 9/11 al Qaeda recruited indiscriminately and that its counter intelligence capacity was pathetic?

If Uzbek intelligence was so good, and the Uzbekistan was in the tight embrace of the US, what intelligence might the US have been receiving in Tachkent?

Also note that the French story completely discredits assertions by both the Clinton and Bush administrations that they had no human intelligence on the ground, in the camps. Apparently, the west did. This makes sense as disinformation: of course both administrations would not want to disclose to the enemy that they had intelligence sources fairly high up in the al Qaeda structure, because such operatives might have been outed and killed, and al Qaeda would have taken counter measures to avoid such infiltration.

This might explain away one of the raps against the Clinton administration -- namely, that when they had bin Laden located in the camps, the military had to get clearance at the highest levels (ie the president) in order to launch cruise missiles. The Le Monde reporting explains why: a missile could easily have killed friendly intelligence operatives within the camp command structures. If my speculation is correct, an errant cruise missile would have slaughtered a virtual United Nations of friendly intelligence operatives.

The Le Monde report does not disclose what is in the French intelligence reports closer to 9/11. So, I suspect that there will be follow up reporting by the author, Guillaume Dasquiéfrom, on the 328 page dossier.

Also of interest is why someone in French intelligence leaked this dossier now. A post in the other thread asks why the mainstream media is picking up on this old news. It's not old news. Someone in French intelligence has decided to drop a bombshell now.

The set up of the French article is almost funny: Guillaume Dasquié walks into the office of Emmanuel Renoult, private secretary of the director of French intelligence, plops down the 328 page dossier, and the private secretary deplores this breach of intelligence and refuses to comment. Dasquie then confronts the former private secretary of the director of central intelligence with the 328 page dossier, who (presumably gulps hard first and) blurts out something to the effect of, but of course no one could have imagined that hijacked planes would be used as missiles ... The western press duly reports in English that the Le Monde news story confirms that prior to 9/11 no one in French intelligence suspected that planes would be used as missiles. My capacity to grasp French irony in print may be limited, but I don't think that's the meaning Dasquie had in mind.

I wonder if someone in French intelligence finally smells blood in the water across the pond in Washington.
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 am

There's clearly a large discconect here. The mainstream liberals and conservatives believe al Qaeda did 9/11. Many truthers believe the neocons and Pentagon did 9/11, and al Qaeda was "falsely blamed". That there was no middle eastern involvement.

My research shows *why* it's crucial to look into the arteries of al Qaeda and global jihad, to show exactly how the global elite behind 9/11 and most major Islamic terror attacks use an all too willing brigade of martyrs.

We know Indonesia, the Philippines, Russia, etc all stage false flag terror attacks...tho in other instances, the jihadists being stage managed
are all too willing to follow their very *non* Muslim puppet masters(usually under the guise of a "sting operation")

The idea to the "Zihopers"(I like that one), that Israel "did it" is absurd...
as in my view, the idea that "the neocons orchestrated 9/11"

From my research, if youre gonna say that, then noone was more guilty of 9/11 than Bill Clinton's administration:

There woulda been no 9/11 had people under Clinton:

...Covered up the truth of the World Trade Center 1993 attacks

...Blocked FBI investigations into the 9/11 operatives, hijackers, terror charities, etc

...Deny Sudan's request to share info on Osama's network and hand him over(then blew up a baby formula factory)

...fund and help the Taliban to power

...do a number of deals with the Taliban

...stood down CIA predator hellfire drones with Osama in their crosshairs

...used and funded al Qaeda in the Bosnian and outlying Balkans conflict(even as Osama declared a fatwa on the West)

...protected Ali Mohamed, one of the top al Qaeda architects who was behing the 1998 attacks and happened to be a CIA asset

...made sure Khalid Mohamed and Osama could escape FBI investigations in 1996 and be protected by the elites of Qatar

...made sure the CIA/Malaysian video surveiled "9/11 Summit" in Malaysia that had Khalid Mohamed and some of the hijackers got covered up

...made sure that Saudi intelligence coordinating the hijackers in America with FBI informants in San Diego got covered up

...made sure the FAA and FBI werent notified that the CIA was monitoring some of the hijackers from Germany to America

...made sure to destroy any evidence of Able Danger in 2000, which identified Mohamed Atta and the hijackers

...made sure to cover up that Ramzi Yousef, Nawaf al Hamzi, Khalid al Midhar, etc were all CIA assets in Bosnia(or in the case of Yousef, in Afghanistan around 1989)

...made sure to play footsy with the FBI in the USS Cole Attacks, which Yemen helped cover up
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:35 am

If you endorse the hypothesis that black ops of the kind being posited were in the picture at all, it's at best misleading and at worst a fallacy to try to sort the operatives according to which national intelligence agency they worked for. At that level, they're not acting for national interests, or even multi-national interests, properly speaking. They're acting for a meta-national power complex that feels the same kind of foolish unbridled love for some specific nation-states that people who are insanely devoted to their pets do for their dogs, cats, parrots, and weasels, or whatever. They're almost like members of the family. But only almost, and not to the extent that they'd think twice about putting them to sleep if, owing to some change in the global scenario, continuing to care for them became an impediment to occupational functioning.

I'd be astonished if some elements of what is technically the American intelligence community were involved in this particular scheme and some elements of what are technically the intelligence communities of Israel and the UK (among others) weren't. I guess that if I learned that some elements of Chinese intelligence were also pitching in, that might be surprising. But in general terms, meta-nationally is just how powers who do shit like bring down the World Trade Center roll. I don't see how it's helpful to rule out any of the usual suspects that some evidence suggests may have been players in the planning or execution of the attacks. The evidence isn't so fully in that I feel I can count them out.

Like Jack Rrrrr, I try to keep my eye on the highest visible point olf the power pyramid that it's my business and my right to oversee. But that's for practical reasons. A primary one of which is discouraging the rise of a meta-national power complex with an extensive black-ops network, evidence for the existence and various technical national origins of whose members I therefore have to be open to acknowledging.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby GM Citizen » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:41 am

unaltered wrote:And I'm supposed to believe YOU rather than an actual verifiable ABC link? lol


Hey, Unaltered, don't take it from me. Take it from this guy. He was there! Yeah, no way, you say. Yes way. He was there ON TOP of the van with his 4 pals, and guess what he says? He says "our purpose was to document the event". Huh, go figure.

That explains the camcorder, although the reason for the dancing has yet to be determined.

Check out what he says back home in November, 2001:

"our purpose was to document the event"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx9q5N8iV68
Veni, Vidi, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around
GM Citizen
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:02 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:46 am

Jack Riddler wrote:Why doesn't the French foreknowledge of what was going to happen inspire people to think France orchestrated 9/11?

I should think because it would seem that French Intelligence was consistently passing their Al-qaida intel to the U.S.
Between September 2000 and August 2001: French Repeatedly Learn of Al-Qaeda Plots Against the US
  
The French intelligence agency, DGSE, publishes nine intelligence reports between these dates on the subject of al-Qaeda threats against the US. Over three hundred pages of classified DGSE reports on al-Qaeda from July 2000 to October 2001 will be leaked to a French reporter in 2007. One of the nine reports on attacks against the US, dated January 5, 2001, will be detailed in a 2007 French newspaper article (see January 5, 2001), but the contents of the other eight remain unknown. DGSE officials will later claim that such reports would have certainly been passed on to the CIA. None of the contents of any of these French reports will be mentioned in the 2004 9/11 Commission report. [Le Monde (Paris), 4/15/2007]


October 2000: Bin Laden Decides Next Action Against US Will Involve Hijacking; French Later Pass Warning to US
  
Bin Laden has personally approves an al-Qaeda plan to hijack a US airplane. A French intelligence report in January 2001 will describe an al-Qaeda plot to hijack aircraft, possibly one flying from Frankfurt to the US (see January 5, 2001). The report notes that, “In October 2000 bin Laden attended a meeting in Afghanistan at which the decision to mount this action was upheld.” [Le Monde (Paris), 4/17/2007] At the meeting, bin Laden also decides that his next action against the US will involve a hijacking. However, there is still disagreement among al-Qaeda leaders over how the plot would work. [Agence France-Presse, 4/16/2007] The French report also claims that in early 2000, bin Laden met with Chechen rebels, the Taliban, and other al-Qaeda leaders to begin planning this hijacking (see Early 2000). The Chechens are likely connected to Chechen leader Ibn Khattab, who has a long history of collaboration with bin Laden (see 1986-March 20, 2002) and is said to be planning an attack against the US with him around this time (see Before April 13, 2001). The French will apparently pass all this information to the CIA in early 2001 (see January 5, 2001).


Typical entries from the timeline.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 177 guests