Bush: Drunk off his ass in China

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:52 am

bks wrote:So did I miss the actual evidence that Bush was drunk/drinking, or is it just not there?

If he was drinking, then there should be pictures/video of him drinking, since there are hundreds of pictures/videos taken of the president at an event like that. Can I please see one?

In fact, I'll be glad to see ANY video/pictures of Bus drinking since 2001. Haven't seem them. Doesn't mean he's sober (as any alcoholic knows), but it does mean that there is no good reason for saying you KNOW he's drinking assuming you've seen him do it himself.


Christopher Hitchens, of all folk, said Bush was a dry drunk. Seems accurate to me, even considering the source.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/bus ... 33175.html

It takes a special talent to screw things up so efficiently. Bush basically has a choice between seeming drunk or learning-disabled. He chose "drunk".
Playing to his base.
User avatar
AhabsOtherLeg
 
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:43 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby RocketMan » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:55 am

The thing that gets to me with this "Bush is a drunk/dry drunk/relapsed alcoholic" discussion is the repellent deference to power when it comes to media. Michael Parenti for instance denigrates people who get hung up on Bush's psychology and all that and on some level I agree with that, systemic analysis is essential. But still, if the president of the United States is a binge drinker who falls down on his face (or arm) and becomes incapacitated due to this behaviour, I would think that according to the Civics 101 view of the world and Democracy, it would be the media's DUTY to expose this.

It's just such a double standard vis a vis for example the way that people laughed at Yeltsin... Who, granted, was even more egregious than Bush, but still, only a degree away, judging by the worst Bush flaps. I seem to remember Bush missing some meeting because of a "stomach ailment" that raised a few eyebrows a few years back, for example.

Justin Frank's "Bush on the Couch" paints a very disturbing picture of Bush's mental faculties and despite some Freudian yada-yada, it's a pretty convincing work.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Perelandra » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:05 pm

Image
User avatar
Perelandra
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:12 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:40 pm

bks wrote:So did I miss the actual evidence that Bush was drunk/drinking, or is it just not there?

If he was drinking, then there should be pictures/video of him drinking, since there are hundreds of pictures/videos taken of the president at an event like that. Can I please see one?



Five posts before yours:


Image
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby bks » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:14 pm

Yeah, I saw it. It's not exactly clear-cut evidence. The table is set for at least four people, and Bush is not holding a drink. There's a beer bottle in front of him. Yet notice Putin's left hand: is he gesturing to Bush to sit down next to him? To someone else perhaps? It's impossible to tell without more context.

I just want to see a picture that actually shows him drinking. If this picture can be taken, why not one with the bottle to his lips? Why not thirty?

Gun to my head, I'd say he drinks. I just want hard evidence.
bks
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:44 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:20 pm

I've got a whole collection here, there's also larger format pics of Bush drinking with Blair.

Image

Image
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:06 pm

This is the kind of nonsense and sloppy research that makes us all look bad. As much as I cant stand Bush I think it is ridiculous to imply he is drunk just because of a few still shots showing him acting like an idiot.

Also, in most every picture I have seen of him allegedly drinking, including the one DIRECTLY ABOVE posted by Wombaticus, the picture clearly shows he is drinking BUCKLER BEER, which he himself has admitted countless times to enjoying on occasion and which is a NON-ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE (sure, it does have trace amounts of alcohol, to be fair, but many alcoholics do drink it without having any problems or relapse).

I think if we want to level accusations against the man we should at least be honest and less sloppy in how we do it. I am for exposing him for the POS that he is, but not at the expense of our credibility.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Wilbur Whatley » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:14 pm

Percival, that's very noble of you. But I'm no stranger to alcohol, and I think he's been drinking regularly ever since he got elected. He damn sure looks drunk in many pictures, ESPECIALLY these recent ones from China. I trust my eyes on this, plus my ears on his mushy voice. I'm sure he has all kinds of other medical and psychological defects, but I think he's at least half-drunk most of the time.

There may be interesting memoirs that leak out of the White House after this horrendous presidency is over.

What an asshole!
Wilbur Whatley
 
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:41 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:32 pm

You may be right but until I see actual evidence of such I am not ready to make that accusation. He always looks like a dumbass and acts like an idiot in my opinion so that really isnt enough evidence for me to convict. Aside from that I think it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for him to cover up a heavy drinking problem while in the White House, he travels too much and is involved in public events too often to be getting hammered all the time. I have seen people with bad drinking problems and although some of them are able to function well in spite of it, most of them are not and I cant imagine him being able to carry out his duties as President if he was drinking as heavily as many on the internet want us to believe.


If i saw some video footage (like the one at the wedding where he was clearly drunk back in 92) then I would consider it but still pictures cannot be used to convict in this matter because you can take a picture of someone at any particular time and make the photo out to be something entirely different than what the situation really is.

In any case, it is plainly obvious that almost all of the pictures showing him drinking beer, he is drinking BUCKLER BEER, just like in the picture above, google a photo of Buckler and compare, it is a non-alcoholic beverage that he himself has admitted to drinking on occasion.

I dont much care to live in a world were accusations are just thrown around for the fuck of it, no matter who the person being accused is, if we have real hard evidence lets see it, otherwise this is just a waste of time and it is all based on nothing more than rumor, speculation and conjecture.

PHOTO OF BUCKLER BEER HERE:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&i ... ages&gbv=2

Compare that to the image posted by Wombaticus. You will also see in that google search, the same picture posted by Wombaticus from different angles, make it even more clear that what he is drinking is Buckler beer, my point in all of this is, that when we level accusations against someone and use sloppy pictures like the one above, all it does is further destory our credibility and make it more difficult next time to prove wrongdoing when it really takes place.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:54 pm

Yep. I figured that was the case but I wasn't about to go through beer bottle photos to find a match.

Image
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Wilbur Whatley » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:18 pm

Good grief. Did you read the label. It says "non-alcoholic," and then it says that it has 0.5% alcohol. In other words, it has quite a bit of alcohol, as much as one-quarter the amount of some weak beers.

Bush is said to have spent some time at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings in Austin in the 1980s, if I remember correctly, although I'm sure he was an arrogant prick about it. But if he really ever did learn anything about AA, he would know that alcoholics can't drink ANY alcohol. Recovering alcoholics who are Catholic, for example, stop taking wine at Communion, which is a very serious step for them. It's really amazing that an admittedly alcoholic president gets away with openly drinking beer and acting totally drunk and nobody will talk about it publicly. Why? That's because he is also a crazy torturer and murderer.

The fact that recovering alcoholics can't drink AT ALL is a matter of brain chemistry. Just a little bit opens up the serotin pathways wide open, if I remember correctly, and the results are unpredictable. It is certain that it mega-activates a craving. A control drinker might be able to hit the soft stuff 9 times in a row, or maybe even 99. But on any night, unpredictably, it just absolutely has to be 100 times that much.

In short, Percival, I don't think you know anything about alcoholics, which Bush has admitted to be.

Also, I think you're quite naive to think the White House wouldn't cover this up. This is the Bush regime, the most dangerous and secretive in history.

He's not a dry drunk. He's been a super squishy wet drunk for years. One of the most amazing stories in history.
Wilbur Whatley
 
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:41 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Nordic » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:28 pm

Tell me this isn't a guy who's hungover.

It's a guy who got drunk, fell down on his face, and when the picture was taken is hungover as HELL.

This was taken during the 2000 election debacle, before the Supreme Court handed this dipstick the Presidency.

Image

Why the picture won't fucking show up is beyond me .... You can click on it here I guess:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/72/22579 ... dc.jpg?v=0
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Postby Percival » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:37 pm

Wilbur Whatley wrote:Good grief. Did you read the label. It says "non-alcoholic," and then it says that it has 0.5% alcohol. In other words, it has quite a bit of alcohol, as much as one-quarter the amount of some weak beers.

Bush is said to have spent some time at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings in Austin in the 1980s, if I remember correctly, although I'm sure he was an arrogant prick about it. But if he really ever did learn anything about AA, he would know that alcoholics can't drink ANY alcohol. Recovering alcoholics who are Catholic, for example, stop taking wine at Communion, which is a very serious step for them. It's really amazing that an admittedly alcoholic president gets away with openly drinking beer and acting totally drunk and nobody will talk about it publicly. Why? That's because he is also a crazy torturer and murderer.

The fact that recovering alcoholics can't drink AT ALL is a matter of brain chemistry. Just a little bit opens up the serotin pathways wide open, if I remember correctly, and the results are unpredictable. It is certain that it mega-activates a craving. A control drinker might be able to hit the soft stuff 9 times in a row, or maybe even 99. But on any night, unpredictably, it just absolutely has to be 100 times that much.

In short, Percival, I don't think you know anything about alcoholics, which Bush has admitted to be.

Also, I think you're quite naive to think the White House wouldn't cover this up. This is the Bush regime, the most dangerous and secretive in history.

He's not a dry drunk. He's been a super squishy wet drunk for years. One of the most amazing stories in history.


You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I require some evidence to draw such conclusions about people, no matter who they are.

For you to question what I know about alcoholism is fucked up. You know nothing about me and lets just leave it that way.


And, for the record, Bush has NEVER admitted to being an alcoholic, in fact he has denied it repeatedly, he has said he drank too much and one day back in the 80s after one of his birthdays, he woke up and decided to quit on his own because he spoken with Billy Graham and came to the conclusion that it was time to stop. He never said he had a problem with it, only that he felt it was time to stop and he claims he did so on his own and never spent any time in rehab. I doubt he is telling the truth about any of that, but you are claiming he admitted to being an alcoholic when in fact he never has. That doesnt mean i dont believe he may be, that is all beside the point, he has never once publically admitted to being an alcoholic.

Secondly, do I think an alcoholic should be drinking Buckler non-alcoholic beer? No, of course not, but I doubt Buckler is going to make anyone, no matter who they are, falling down drunk, and that is what you and others on here have claimed Bush was and have used pictures of him drinking Buckler as your evidence of such. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:41 pm

Nordic wrote:Tell me this isn't a guy who's hungover.

It's a guy who got drunk, fell down on his face, and when the picture was taken is hungover as HELL.

This was taken during the 2000 election debacle, before the Supreme Court handed this dipstick the Presidency.

Image

Why the picture won't fucking show up is beyond me .... You can click on it here I guess:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/72/22579 ... dc.jpg?v=0



It may be, but we do not know for sure do we. I am sure if I followed you around all day I could probably find some moments here and there where I could take some unflattering photos of you and spread them around the internet and make you out to be something you may not even be close to being.

Look, I cant stand the son of a bitch, I am just asking that we be responsible with how we go about condemning his fucking stupid ass because when we get sloppy all it does is make us look bad and destory our credibility and they win when that happens.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Wilbur Whatley » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:43 pm

Percival, here's the fabulous Wiki page on George W. Bush substance abuse controversy:

Bush has described his days before his religious conversion in his 40s as his "nomadic" period and "irresponsible youth" and admitted to drinking "too much" in those years. In Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President by James Hatfield, Bush is quoted as saying that "alcohol began to compete with my energies ... I'd lose focus". Although Bush states that he was not an alcoholic, he has acknowledged that he was "drinking too much",[1] and that he couldn't remember a day when he hadn't had a drink, including his stay at Phillips Academy, where not only was he underage but alcohol was prohibited on campus, as well as at Yale where, conversely, "hard drinking" was considered a badge of honor (Hatfield).

Bush's drinking may not have caused problems were it not for his tendency to become excessively uninhibited, according to reports of friends. In the article referenced above, Kristof quotes Bush's cousin Elsie Walker as saying, "He was a riot. But afterward, when you're older, that can wear thin", and gives the example of Bush asking a "proper" female friend of his parents at a family cocktail party, "So, what's sex like after 50, anyway?"[1]

* In December, 1966 (age 20), he was arrested for disorderly conduct after he and some friends had "a few beers" and stole a Christmas wreath from a hotel.[2] The charges were later dropped.
* On September 4, 1976 (age 30), Bush was arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol near his family's summer home in Kennebunkport, Maine. He admitted his guilt, was fined US$150, and had his driving license in the state suspended for two years. The White House had claimed 30 days, the document shows two years.[3] This incident did not become public knowledge until it was reported in the press in the week before the 2000 election.

The most notorious episode, reported in numerous diverse sources including U.S. News & World Report, November 1, 1999, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq by Robert Parry, First Son: George W. Bush and the Bush Family Dynasty by Bill Minutaglio, and W: Revenge of the Bush Dynasty by Elizabeth Mitchell, has 26-year-old George W. Bush visiting his parents in Washington, D. C. over the Christmas vacation in 1972, shortly after the death of his grandfather, and taking his 16-year-old brother Marvin out drinking. On the way home George lost control of the car and ran over a garbage can, but continued home with the can wedged noisily under the car. When his father, George H. W. Bush, called him on the carpet for not only his own behavior but for exposing his younger brother to risk, George W., still under the influence, appears to have retorted angrily, "I hear you're looking for me. You wanna go mano-a-mano right here?" Before the elder Bush could reply, the situation was defused by brother Jeb, who took the opportunity to surprise his father with the happy news that George W. had been accepted to Harvard Business School.[4]

During the 2000 presidential campaign, Bush said that he gave up drinking after waking up with a hangover after his 40th birthday celebration: "I quit drinking in 1986 and haven't had a drop since then." He ascribed the change in part to a 1985 meeting with Reverend Billy Graham, after which he began serious Bible study, as well as to gentle but persistant pressure from his wife, Laura.[5][6][7] Friends recall that Bush said nothing of his decision, even to Laura, until many weeks later when they realized that he had not had so much as a single beer in the interim.

An editorial letter by Graydon Carter in Vanity Fair for January, 2008, quotes a new book about Bush:

"a new book by former British foreign secretary Lord Owen may supply a clue. In The Hubris Syndrome: Bush, Blair, and the Intoxication of Power (ISBN 1842752197), Owen recalls the time in 2002 when the commander in chief collapsed while sitting on a sofa watching a football game. (Official cause: he’d choked on a pretzel.) The presidential head hit a table on the way to the floor, he suffered an abrasion on the left side of his face, and a blood sample was rushed to Johns Hopkins, in Baltimore. Owen says he was told by a British doctor who had visited Johns Hopkins that lab technicians there found that the blood contained significant amounts of alcohol."[8]

Since then, a photo[9] was taken on June 7, 2007 of Bush drinking what appears to be a beer at the G8 Summit in Heiligendamm, Germany. However, a German newspaper, citing White House sources, has said it was Buckler, a non-alcoholic beer.[10]

During an official visit in Rome, on 12 June 2008 Bush had an official lunch with Italian President Giorgio Napolitano, and during the lunch was served both white and red wine. [11]

[edit] Illegal drugs

Bush has refused to discuss speculation that he has used illegal drugs, but has said that when his father became president in 1989, and required White House employees to affirm that they had not used illegal drugs for 15 years, he would have passed that test.[12][13]

A conversation between Bush and an old friend and author, Doug Wead, touched on the subject of use of illegal drugs. In the taped recordings of the conversation, Bush explained his refusal to answer questions about whether he had used marijuana at some time in his past. “I wouldn’t answer the marijuana questions,” Bush says. “You know why? Because I don’t want some little kid doing what I tried.” When Wead reminded Bush that the latter had publicly denied using cocaine, Bush replied, "I haven't denied anything."[14]

In 1999, St. Martin's Press published a book[15] claiming that Bush had been arrested for cocaine possession and that he had the record expunged. The publisher claimed at the time that the book had been "carefully fact-checked and scrutinized by lawyers",[16] but soon afterwards recalled it and pulped all copies after it came to light that the author, James Hatfield, had been convicted in 1988 of attempted murder and in 1992 of embezzlement, had spent five years in prison, and had falsely claimed that his vanity novel about James Bond was authorised by the copyright holder.[citation needed]

In February 2004, Eric Boehlert in Salon magazine claimed that Bush's cessation of flying in April, 1972 and his subsequent refusal to take a physical exam came at the same time the Air Force announced a Medical Service Drug Abuse Testing Program, which, he wrote, was officially launched on April 21, 1972. He further claimed that while the drug testing took years to implement, "as of April 1972, Air National guardsmen knew random drug testing was going to be implemented."[17] Other sources indicate that the U.S. military did not introduce drug testing until the 1980s.[18]

**********end of quote

I think you're slicing it too thin. Yes, he has never publicly admitted that he is an "alcoholic." But 100 times he's said things that mean the same thing, and as we know, it's the behavior that counts, not the words.

As to your own history, I said you don't seem to know much about alcoholism. I stand on that impression. It's not based on knowledge of your life, of course; it's based on your words in this thread.
Wilbur Whatley
 
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:41 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests