Black Monolith of Kubrick's 2001: An Esoteric Mystery(9/11)

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Postby justdrew » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:48 pm

compared2what? wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
justdrew wrote:I just like to mention there's also this guy named Arthur C. Clark ...
... it's not really a movie version of the Arthur G. Clarke book


I just wanted to get his name down spelled right once: Arthur C. Clarke

here's something I hadn't realized:
It [the book] was developed concurrently with Stanley Kubrick's film version and published after the release of the film. The story is based in part on various short stories by Clarke, most notably "The Sentinel" (written in 1948 for a BBC competition but first published in 1951 under the title "Sentinel of Eternity"). For an elaboration of Clark and Kubrick's collaborative work on this project, see The Lost Worlds of 2001, Arthur C. Clarke, Signet., 1972.

Sentinel of Eternity deals with the discovery of an artifact on Earth's Moon left behind eons ago by ancient aliens. The object is made of a polished mineral and tetrahedral in shape, and is surrounded by a spherical forcefield. The first-person narrator speculates at one point that the mysterious aliens who left this structure on the Moon may have used mechanisms belonging "to a technology that lies beyond our horizons, perhaps to the technology of para-physical forces."

For millennia (evidenced by dust buildup around its forcefield) the artifact has transmitted signals into deep space, but it ceases to transmit when the astronauts who discover it breach the forcefield. The narrator hypothesises that this "sentinel" was left on the moon as a "warning beacon" for the possible intelligent and spacefaring life that might develop on Earth.

This quotation illustrates the idea, and its ramifications:

"It was only a matter of time before we found the pyramid and forced it open. Now its signals have ceased, and those whose duty it is will be turning their minds upon Earth. Perhaps they wish to help our infant civilization. But they must be very, very old, and the old are often insanely jealous of the young."

In the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, the operation of the sentinel is reversed. It is the energy of the sun, falling for the first time on the uncovered artifact, that triggers the signal that creatures from the Earth had taken the first step into space.
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:13 pm

justdrew wrote:
compared2what? wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
justdrew wrote:I just like to mention there's also this guy named Arthur C. Clark ...
... it's not really a movie version of the Arthur G. Clarke book


I just wanted to get his name down spelled right once: Arthur C. Clarke

here's something I hadn't realized:
It [the book] was developed concurrently with Stanley Kubrick's film version and published after the release of the film. The story is based in part on various short stories by Clarke, most notably "The Sentinel" (written in 1948 for a BBC competition but first published in 1951 under the title "Sentinel of Eternity"). For an elaboration of Clark and Kubrick's collaborative work on this project, see The Lost Worlds of 2001, Arthur C. Clarke, Signet., 1972.

Sentinel of Eternity deals with the discovery of an artifact on Earth's Moon left behind eons ago by ancient aliens. The object is made of a polished mineral and tetrahedral in shape, and is surrounded by a spherical forcefield. The first-person narrator speculates at one point that the mysterious aliens who left this structure on the Moon may have used mechanisms belonging "to a technology that lies beyond our horizons, perhaps to the technology of para-physical forces."

For millennia (evidenced by dust buildup around its forcefield) the artifact has transmitted signals into deep space, but it ceases to transmit when the astronauts who discover it breach the forcefield. The narrator hypothesises that this "sentinel" was left on the moon as a "warning beacon" for the possible intelligent and spacefaring life that might develop on Earth.

This quotation illustrates the idea, and its ramifications:

"It was only a matter of time before we found the pyramid and forced it open. Now its signals have ceased, and those whose duty it is will be turning their minds upon Earth. Perhaps they wish to help our infant civilization. But they must be very, very old, and the old are often insanely jealous of the young."

In the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, the operation of the sentinel is reversed. It is the energy of the sun, falling for the first time on the uncovered artifact, that triggers the signal that creatures from the Earth had taken the first step into space.


Typo! We regret the error.

Apart from Mr. Arthur C. Clarke, there are three instances of Kubrick actively working with the author's whose work he's adapting that spring to my mind, in all of which he made significant alterations to (or actively subverted) aspects of the original material, with or without the author's consent or public endorsement.

For example, despite what the credits and all parties involved have to say about it, in my view, it's simply not possible that Nabokov wrote the screenplay for the 1962 Lolita. Or that he viewed it as more than very tenuously related to anything he ever authored or conceived of, even. Because that really would be like pigs flying, it's so wholly outside of the scope of his verifiable habits and characteristics. And besides that, it's tremendously altered both in theme and substance. As is The Shining. As is A Clockwork Orange.

IIRC, Stephen King was very vocal about his objections to the movie. I know that Anthony Burgess has expressed some dissatisfaction with ACO, too, but don't remember if he did it at the time of the film's release or not. At the time, anyway, Nabokov professed to be happy with the way the movie turned out. And he may have been. But as noted, there's just no chance that it could have been in any capacity other than: As a fan of the movies and vision of Stanley Kubrick. Because artistically speaking, it's got practically nothing to do with his novel.

So....You know, I'm pretty sure that from Dr. Strangelove onward, all Kubrick's movies were adaptations. Though I've never read the material that Dr. Strangelove, Full Metal Jacket, or Eyes Wide Shut are based on, and so cannot say exactly how heavily adapted. But for the ones I have read, including 2001, the only way the novels are an aid to understanding the movie is as potential indicators of what parts were so inherently incompatible with Kubrick's worldview that there was nothing even he could do to wrestle them into conformity with it, and was just forced to leave them out.

He was a director who was very particular about detail, and famously insistent on using his movies to say and do solely and exclusively what he felt there was to be said and done, as well as famously stubborn in remaining completely impervious to all other considerations. So it's usually a pretty safe bet that looking for an elaboration of any of his work in any part of the books they're based on that he chose not to include isn't going to be much of an aid to understanding it.

I apologize for being so dogged about something so picayune. Those movies are very personally valuable to me. So I'm personally passionate about them. But I wouldn't really argue with anyone who pointed out that was my personal problem, and not necessarily relevant to anyone else.
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Postby JackRiddler » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:43 pm

.

squares

.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:55 pm

I see that Kubrick's films from the 1960s on perfectly match USG psyops themes.
I think he was 'in the club,' just like Sydney Pollack, George Lucas, and Steven Spielberg.

There were a few bullets and a shell found in the Dealey Plaza area over the years
On top of buildings.
One was a military-style full metal jacket...I just read that, can't remember where...
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/textsearch/advancedResults.do


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket
Cast
....
Peter Edmund as "Private Snowball": African-American recruit, the butt of jibes about from Hartman about "fried chicken and water melon", and famous for informing him that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy from "that book suppository [sic] building, Sir!".
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Postby justdrew » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:13 pm

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Postby lightningBugout » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:25 pm

jd - what do you think about Tarkovsky (esp. Solaris and Zona)?
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
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Postby justdrew » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:27 pm

hugh, not to add fuel to the fire but I thought of you when I was just reminded that one of his films (which I haven't seen) is: Barry Lyndon

I don't think he'd have moved to England if he were really in that club, he held hollywood at more than arms length. He may have gotten a bit used once or twice, but not terribly; though an awareness of that may be behind his on-going seclusion and withdrawal from the US.


lightningBugout wrote:jd - what do you think about Tarkovsky (esp. Solaris and Zona)?


Tarkovsky in '56 makes The Killers and Kubrick in '56 made The Killing. I find that enticingly coincidental. Solaris was the Soviet 2001: A Space Odyssey
The Cold War was the new world order; at the top, in the shadows, the same well meaning technocrats ran the whole show... and for a time it was good... relatively.
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Postby Col. Quisp » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:37 pm

Please read this blog post:
http://wrongwaywizard.blogspot.com/2008/10/bore-me-again-o-wrong-way-wizard.html

it is about 2001 as well as EWS
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Postby lightningBugout » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:41 pm

justdrew wrote:hugh, not to add fuel to the fire but I thought of you when I was just reminded that one of his films (which I haven't seen) is: Barry Lyndon

I don't think he'd have moved to England if he were really in that club, he held hollywood at more than arms length. He may have gotten a bit used once or twice, but not terribly; though an awareness of that may be behind his on-going seclusion and withdrawal from the US.


lightningBugout wrote:jd - what do you think about Tarkovsky (esp. Solaris and Zona)?


Tarkovsky in '56 makes The Killers and Kubrick in '56 made The Killing. I find that enticingly coincidental. Solaris was the Soviet 2001: A Space Odyssey
The Cold War was the new world order; at the top, in the shadows, the same well meaning technocrats ran the whole show... and for a time it was good... relatively.


need to see the killers (and the killing i guess) but find it fascinating that solaris is so warm and plaintitive and even a bit lush while 2001 is, well, cold. this is not the soviet/us juxtapoz they taught me about in elementary school!
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
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Postby justdrew » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:15 am

ok, here's something the great wiki says of 2001:
"160 minutes (Premiere cut)
141 minutes (General release)"

The HD/blueray remaster says it's 148 minutes and at an aspect ratio of 2.40:1 when it was, per wiki, filmed at 2.20:1 ... may I just add... WTF?
Has the Premiere cut ever been issued? I for one would like to see the missing 19 minutes. (I'm guessing the aspect on the hd reissue is just wrong and the run time is the general release plus some extra credits)

After the film's premiere in April of 1968, Kubrick cut 19 minutes from the film, including parts of the Dawn of Man prologue, the Orion spaceship, Pool exercising in the centrifuge, and Pool returning with the AE-35 unit. Kubrick also inserted the title cards "Jupiter Mission 18 Months Later" and "Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite."
Screening for Life Magazine - March 29, 1968
Washington D. C. Press Previews - March 31, April 1, 1968
Washington D.C. World Premiere - April 2, 1968
New York Press Previews - April 1-2, 1968
New York Premiere - April 3, 1968
Los Angeles Premiere - April 4th, 1968
Kubrick cuts 19 minutes from film - April 4-5, 1968
Final cut shown in New York - April 6th, 1968


So I guess I can forget about finding the missing 19 minutes. boy you could construct on heck of a rumor around "the mystery of the missing 19 minutes". I wonder... maybe just 18 and a half minutes are missing and it's been rounded up? Just another enticing coincidence? (the Nixon tapes missing 18.5 is the parallel for those of you following along at home)

also this is out there:
Alex North's 2001, The Legendary Original Score
The late Alex North's original score. His friend and fellow composer Jerry Goldsmith, guided by North's cassette and sheet music, reverently conducts the National Philharmonic Orchestra in this world premiere recording of the score commissioned by Kubrick who later chose not to use it in his film. Booklet contains the story of how this lost score came to be resurrected.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:15 am

Kubrick was going to do a Napolean movie but someone else did so he transferred his period research to 'Barry Lyndon.'

There is a common theme in the two subjects-
Failed masculine violence. Post Vietnam catharsis.

Very different from the American Exceptionalism meme of 1968's '2001' when the Apollo program was riding high and the My Lai massacre was still unknown.

Then Nixon left behind hundreds of POWS. And then he was canned. And the tv news anchors were all replaced.

Then ex-president LBJ gave some unusually candid interviews just before he died with hippie long hair looking like a depressive Buffalo Bill.
"We were running a damn Murder Inc. down there...'

'Bury Lyndon.'
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Postby lightningBugout » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:19 am

Hugh, what's your eyes wide shut rundown. In a nutshell? (though I realize that is a tall order)
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Postby justdrew » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:29 am

lightningBugout wrote:need to see the killers (and the killing i guess) but find it fascinating that solaris is so warm and plaintitive and even a bit lush while 2001 is, well, cold. this is not the soviet/us juxtapoz they taught me about in elementary school!


hmm, the State Committee for Cinematography even assigned the same run time, 2 hours 20 minutes (roughly) but Tarkovsky went over to 164, roughly the original length of 2001. both are based on books by established authors.

ahh... allmovie guide has noticed something along these lines:
Conceived partly as the anti-2001: A Space Odyssey (1968), Andrei Tarkovsky's Solaris (1972) weaves a hypnotic fable about love, humanity, and memory out of its science fiction premise. Reinstating the detritus of everyday existence absent from 2001's future vision

...so I wasn't imagining things for once... lol
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Postby lightningBugout » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:39 am

I need to watch both this weekend. Thanks jd - you've turned me on to what I think is actually a fucking fascinating little historical node. Will report back.....
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Re: kirby's 2001

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:58 am

Foote Hertz wrote:
Image


"The monolith waits no longer...it activates to allow an ancient experiment to reach it's climax"

In an esoteric symbolic way, this sounds like 9/11 itself and its meaning...or, America itself. I think were really about to see the climax soon enough, the ritual being completed.
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