Vegetarianism

[john doe]

Hello all-<br><br>Sometimes I think some people smoke, drink, and eat meat to intentionally dull their senses- when you clean up your body you become more sensitive to the angst around you, and when you don't know how to reconcile with it you can get overwhelmed. In other words, a physical cleansing will be more succesfull if it's accompanied by spiritual & mental preparations...<br><br>If that makes any sense. <br><br>As an example, marijuana eventually robs you of your capacity to dream, but that can be welcome if your dreams are unsettling.<br><br><br>Also- I used to live with a woman who was a vegetarian. She literally tasted good (<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ), and her sweat didn't stink either.<br><br>-jd <p></p><i></i>

[FourthBase]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yep, vegetarianism. Self-righteousness as a lifestyle choice. All the benefits of moral purity without any unnecessary effort.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>You've GOT to be kidding me.<br>As if vegetarianism is merely some "new age" fad?<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[jingofever]

... the fad that isn't sweeping the nation. Humans evolved to consume a diet of meats, nuts, fresh fruits and vegetables and frothy beers. I try to follow that diet as much as possible, substituting mammoth chops with factory chicken, fresh vegetables with canned and frothy beers with fluoridated water. <p></p><i></i>

[FourthBase]

Re: "caveman diet"...<br>Our ancestors were mostly gatherers.<br>Only occasionally hunters.<br><br>Key word: <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>were</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.<br><br>Q: Does a pig have as much of a right to live and not be eaten as a severely retarded human being? Not a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>legal</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> right, not yet anyway. But what's your moral intuition? <p></p><i></i>

[darkbeforedawn]

Well, many of the most judgmental and unpleasant people I know are vegetarians. They believe they are better than other people. Some really horrible people are vegetarians: Hitler and some of the other higher ups in the reich were. I think to make blanket statements about what people should eat it is a waste of time. Some people simply cannot get enough and the right combination of nutrients from a grain based diet, expecially those who are unable to digest grain.People and groups of people are really different in their needs and ability to absorb nutrients. Also vegetarian diets are not necessarily better for the planet. Small family centered farms who pasture their animals instead of grain feed them are better for the earth than large pesticide sprayed and herbicide contaminated tracks of land used for raising grain and soy beans such as we see here in the midwest. Beware of doctrinair and cultish beliefs. Dairy and meat can be extremely nourishing and can be raised and treated in a cruelty free way that is good for the planet. <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

Back in the day, being vegetarian WAS a fad thing. My first husband and I did it for a couple of years. Much of that time we lived on oranges and cocaine... now there's a plant-based diet!<br><br>My second husband decided, about a year after we got together in the mid-70's, that he would indeed be morally superior to everybody else by becoming vegetarian. About ten years later, I did an experiment: got 4 baby goslings and raised them up to be nicer and kinder as proof of our moral superiority... but guess what? It DIDN'T work! Some years later, I found out that he also considered child molestation to be a morally superior act. Guess I just never did get with the program, so he (nor my girls) never told me. So much with the idea of the moral superiority of vegetarianism proving anything.<br><br>Talking about how the meat is raised commercially is about making conscious choices. Yes, much of the rain forest is cut down to make low-quality, short-lived grazing land for the fast-food market. Soybeans, too, are taking over what used to be jungles. You vegans need to know that soybeans are equally destructive to the environment... not to mention the genetic modification and chemicals used to produce them. Organic, non-GMO soybeans are out there, but are not necessarily very good for you... I don't feed them to any of our numerous animals.<br><br>It's ALL about conscious choices. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[Connut]

You don't think plants have feelings? You don't think they don't scream when wrested from the ground by their roots? You think because you can't hear their pain that it's alright to go ahead and drop them in boiling water? ALL life is sacred. If we don't say prayers of gratitude for the sacrifice of any thing we eat, then you might as well be chewing on live animals. Until we learn to live on air and sunshine, we'd better be respectful of all beings - plants, animals, birds, fish. Thus endeth today's lesson. <br><br>Cheers, Connut <p></p><i></i>

[silverspringwoman]

Traditional diets include animal products. The trick is to buy sustainably raised aand humanely killed animals, and avoiding processed/commercialized/desensitized foods of any kind, be they animal, vegetable or mineral.<br><br>There are great articles about the dangers of vegetarianism on the WAPF site; it is good reading regardless of where you fall on the "spectrum".<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://westonaprice.org">westonaprice.org</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>edited for typos</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=silverspringwoman>silverspringwoman</A> at: 3/9/06 11:06 am<br></i>

[professorpan]

Biao,<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Vegetarianism is just another form of "ethics as performance art" - big pious displays of eco-morality at the alter of a diffuse godhead ("gaia" ... "the future" ... "nature"<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> .<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That's a load of bullshit.<br><br>I'm not 100% vegetarian, as I eat fish and shellfish. I don't condemn meat eaters, although I disagree with their choices, just as vegans disagree with mine.<br><br>But adopting a vegetarian diet can be a positive ethical decision. Eating lower on the food chain has far less impact on the environment -- water use, land use, and less animal waste. And calling ethical choices "performance art" is specious. Are pacifists performance artists? Are antiwar activists performance artists? To someone who does not believe in killing sentient beings unnecessarily, becoming a vegetarian is a daily affirmation of nonviolent principles.<br><br>Are some vegetarians self-righteous? Sure. So are plenty of meat eaters who get off on ridiculing vegetarians. You seem to fall into that category. <p></p><i></i>

[heath7]

Beautifully put, Connut. <br><br>What makes animals any better than plants?<br><br>There's eons of natural tradition of homo sapiens eating animal flesh and plant flesh. We were meant to, that's why meat tastes so good. If we weren't meant to eat it, it'd taste nasty to us. <br><br>Now, I'm open to the argument that not eating meat does some good things for your body and mind, and would be interested in hearing more of the unwashed science behind that. I'm kind of an aggressive person, and I could conceive that if I ate less meat, maybe I'd grow up a little, as an example<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>...something else plants and animals have in common is that neither are processed honorably. Growth aiding chemicals are used in plants as well as animals, not to mention the whole 'genetically modified' controversy. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=heath7>heath7</A> at: 3/9/06 11:39 am<br></i>

[slimmouse]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm not 100% vegetarian, as I eat fish and shellfish. I don't condemn meat eaters, although I disagree with their choices, just as vegans disagree with mine.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> If I were to try and articulate the reasons why I stopped eating sentient creatures, theyd look at me stupid.<br><br> It hadnt really occurred to me until rather lately, that we all go "OOh", and Ahh at the wonders of human based technology. We would of course be doing even more of that in a fair society, but thats another Story. <br><br> What we appear to have overlooked completely however is the incredibly sophisticated nature and beauty of creation itself. The sheer artistry and intellect involved in such creation is more than worthy of wonder and preservation. And thats without even begginning to consider the nature of the consciousness of such creations or the creator.<br><br> Why I did stop I suppose is actually unimportant to most people. The important thing I guess is that I did.<br><br> And I certainly <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>dont</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> miss it <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[professorpan]

The "why are animals any better than plants?" and "plants feel pain, too!" arguments fall apart under scrutiny.<br><br>First, even if you believe that plants feel pain or are in some way sentient, eating animals means you are consuming a vastly larger number of plants than if you ate *only* plants. For instance, cattle and chickens are fed a huge quantity of plant material, so eating animals means you are also taking part in the consumption of all the plant material that the animal converts to flesh/protein.<br><br>Also, insisting that we are "meant to" eat meat is also fallacious. We have choice to eat whatever we wish -- we aren't foraging in the forest anymore, straining to meet our biological needs.<br><br>Yes, humans evolved as omnivorous creatures, as our physiology attests. We also evolved as murderous slave-owners and warmakers. I'm glad our evolution has produced a growing number of people who reject violence and oppression. We can, and do, make choices that have ethical consequences.<br><br>I have always found the animosity of meat eaters against vegetarians strange. Many are quick to condemn vegetarians and insist that meat eating is natural, therefore choosing to not eat it is unnatural. That's as logical as saying that having children is natural, therefore birth control is somehow wrong. <br><br>We all make choices. I never impose my pescovegetarianism on others, yet I am constantly called upon to defend my choice. <br><br>Eating lower on the food chain (i.e. a plant-centric diet as opposed to a meat-centric diet) is better not only for human health, but for the ecosystem. A simple tour of the Eastern Shore of Maryland will show you what intensive, factory farmed chickens can do to water and land resources. Not to mention the terrible conditions for workers, and the horrid abuse of the animals.<br><br>I do understand that people take issue with preachy vegetarians who go out of their way to denigrate meat eaters. But they are no different, or any more annoying, than meat eaters who denigrate vegetarians. <p></p><i></i>

[chillin]

I still eat some meat and feel bad about it. I feel bad about eating plants too. For the same reasons. Guess I'm destined to become a sungazer.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.lifemysteries.com/psjs_faqs/06236228.shtml">www.lifemysteries.com/psj...6228.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

[DireStrike]

When we live in a society that can't decide whether eggs, fat, carbs, cholesterol, etc etc etc ad nauseam is good or bad, I think it's pretty hard to trust anyone's judgement is correct. I'll stick to the diet that humans have had for hundreds of thousands of years. Grain, fruit, vegetables, meat where you can get it, and delicious animal byproducts because I couldn't live without cheese and cream. =p Of course I'll try to get it from a local, sustainable and humane farm. <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<br> Thats an interesting link chillin.<br><br> 15 mins out of my life a day. Hmmm.<br><br> Nothing ventured, nothing gained I guess <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>