Obama's first evil act as president

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Postby RocketMan » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:58 pm

We will never agree as long as those on the whiny, bitchy side of the equation label those who don't whine, bitch and moan "kool aid drinkers" "obamabots" etc etc.. Since we're in a labeling mood, I knew it wouldn't be long for the Chlamor Hipster Fanboy Army to make it's presence known. Cue Code Unknown and the rest...


I really, really thought that this board would not have exchanges like this. I'm bailing out of this thread/fiasco, but before I go I have to point out how self-contradictory that quote is. To paraphrase Dubya, ya can't have it both ways: you can't take the high horse and then claim the low road.
-I don't like hoodlums.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:20 pm

"In a dust bowl of inhumanity it only takes a few precious drops to make mud."

"Ignorance is the gift that keeps on taking."
-HMW

Never forget that the White House is the space-age Reichstag and no gestures can ever change that.

Gestures to scrape up some 'goodwill' for the Reichstag are what we are seeing now to capitalize on the Obama honeymoon period for damage control and reduction of friction-
STRICTLY FOR USG STRATEGIC GAIN, not for peace nor justice nor human rights.

Even false hopes have a useful shelf life that will be exploited.
So don't split hairs trying to parse out some strands of justifying integrity in USG actions.
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Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:58 pm

RocketMan wrote:I really, really thought that this board would not have exchanges like this. I'm bailing out of this thread/fiasco, but before I go I have to point out how self-contradictory that quote is. To paraphrase Dubya, ya can't have it both ways: you can't take the high horse and then claim the low road.


Just wanted to make myself understood (on your level).

Later...

~C
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The Song Remains the Same

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:17 pm

"CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment.

So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination.

These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator's security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists" [or these days "terrorists"] but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow."

— Steve Kangas: Timeline of CIA Atrocities
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Postby professorpan » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:36 pm

The purpose of this thread is to point out the absurdity of the caricature of Obama as a demonic snake who can do nothing but evil. It's a caricature as patently ridiculous as the Obama-as-messiah caricature.

It doesn't mean I endorse everything he has done, or the system within which he works, nor does it mean I am not critical of his missteps and capitulations. But it has been wildly amusing to see the haters twist themselves into knots to avoid admitting that he has done anything of worth.

And I find chlamor's unwillingness to discuss what he is for to be very telling.
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Postby Trifecta » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:51 pm

There is no purpose here, it will take 8 years for you to realise this.

Obama as a demonic snake, nope, no one is saying that, they are saying all administrations are as a demonic snake. He is yet anopther puppet for the masters of doom

Talk to ya in 8 years (fingers crossed)

For the record, when you may want to look at the hope that befell the UK when Tony Blair took power, we all believed change would follow and for a few short spins of the doctors it appeared to ... you know the rest of the story.

Governments are crooks, liars, cheats, murderers and complicit in acts against those who truly want to live peaceful lives. The only thing that will change that is when people like you stop believing the Popes of Hope (lol) will come and save your scrawny asses.

Viva the global peoples revolution!
the future is already here—it just got distributed to the wealthy first
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Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:52 pm

professorpan wrote:And I find chlamor's unwillingness to discuss what he is for to be very telling.


I doubt he's unwilling ...he's just waiting for someone else to write for him.... :roll:
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Postby ninakat » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:22 pm

Trifecta wrote:For the record, when you may want to look at the hope that befell the UK when Tony Blair took power, we all believed change would follow and for a few short spins of the doctors it appeared to ... you know the rest of the story.

Governments are crooks, liars, cheats, murderers and complicit in acts against those who truly want to live peaceful lives. The only thing that will change that is when people like you stop believing the Popes of Hope (lol) will come and save your scrawny asses.

Viva the global peoples revolution!


Indeed!

And the Tony Blair comparison fits so well. It's already clear that Obama has won the propaganda war -- it's really just a question of how long that will last.
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Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:44 pm

Trifecta wrote: The only thing that will change that is when people like you stop believing the Popes of Hope (lol) will come and save your scrawny asses.


Pass the Orgone please..........LOL. I like my hopeless despair with a little sumthin extra.
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Postby elfismiles » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:56 pm

Mitchell’s Firm Worked for Dubai Ruler in Jockey Case (Update1)
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By Timothy J. Burger

Jan. 27 (Bloomberg) -- George Mitchell, President Barack Obama’s special Middle East troubleshooter, was chairman of a law firm that was paid about $8 million representing Dubai’s ruler in connection with a child-trafficking lawsuit.

The DLA Piper law firm did legal and lobbying work on the case, which alleged that Dubai’s Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al- Maktoum and another official used children kidnapped from other countries to ride as jockeys in camel races. The firm lobbied federal agencies, members of the U.S. House and about two dozen Senate offices, including those of Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2006 and 2007, according to Justice Department foreign-agent disclosures.

Mitchell, 75, who isn’t a registered lobbyist, didn’t lobby either on this issue or for Dubai generally. DLA Piper partner Bill Minor said in an e-mail that Mitchell, a former Democratic senator from Maine, mainly focused on growth and management at the firm of almost 4,000 attorneys and 65 offices worldwide, and high-profile projects such as an investigation of steroid use in Major League Baseball.

Mitchell’s firm had extensive lobbying clients and offices in the Middle East ranging from the leader of Dubai to a Kuwait construction firm contracting in Iraq. The firm also has offices in Egypt, Oman, Qatar and Abu Dhabi and has an affiliation with a law firm in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Mitchell traveled to Dubai and spoke to the press there about the issue.

Suit Thrown Out

The camel-jockey suit was thrown out after the U.S. Justice Department notified a Miami federal judge that it planned to intervene and argue that al-Maktoum was immune from the suit as a foreign leader.

“That he was such a key figure in the firm himself certainly gives the appearance that probably any of the clients that solicited help from the firm may have had a business relationship with him as well,” said Craig Holman, who lobbies for tougher governmental ethics rules for Public Citizen, a Washington-based advocacy group.

In a Jan. 24 telephone interview, Mitchell said he “was generally aware of the case but I had no involvement in it.”

“I visited Dubai. I did not discuss the case with the Sheikh. I had nothing to do with bringing it in,” Mitchell said. “I was merely chairman when it occurred.”

Mitchell’s name heads a list on DLA Piper’s Web site of a team advising clients “on opportunities and risks associated with doing business in Iraq and the Middle East generally.” In addition to legal work, the Web site says DLA Piper has “experience working with relevant decision makers in the United States and the region.”

Dubai Billing

Altogether, DLA Piper billed Dubai-related entities about $9.5 million on this and other issues while Mitchell was chairman from 2005 through the end of 2008.

Other lobbying clients located or primarily interested in the Middle East -- and one focused on Iran -- paid DLA Piper an additional $2.29 million.

Mitchell, who is traveling in the Middle East this week, may need a waiver from Obama’s new policy on ethics and lobbying, which says government officials must wait two years before working on matters “directly and substantially” related to pre-government employers or clients even if they weren’t registered lobbyists, said Stefan Passantino, head of the Washington-based political law group for McKenna Long & Aldridge.

‘Perception Dynamic’

“It is a perception dynamic that has to be managed very carefully,” said Passantino, who helped represent former House Speaker Newt Gingrich during a congressional ethics case.

Asked if he’s going to have to recuse himself from anything at the State Department, Mitchell said, “I haven’t made any judgment on that.”

“I have to wait and see,” Mitchell said. “I will be resigning from the firm and terminating all private business activities.”

White House spokesman Bill Burton referred questions to the State Department, where spokesman Gordon Duguid declined comment and referred questions to Mitchell’s office. A voicemail left at the U.A.E. embassy in Washington wasn’t returned.

Habib Al-Mulla, a Dubai-based lawyer for Sheikh Mohammad, also said Mitchell “played no role in the litigation or efforts that led to the quashing of the lawsuit.” Al-Mulla said the sheikh was satisfied with the outcome of the case.

Mitchell, a former U.S. Senate majority leader and onetime federal judge, was quoted by the Emirates News Agency in January 2007 defending the United Arab Emirates’ efforts to rescue “underage camel jockeys.”

Mitchell led efforts in Northern Ireland that resulted in the 1998 Good Friday peace agreement. In 2000 and 2001, he was chairman of a fact-finding panel examining the crisis in the Middle East.

9/11 Commission

In 2002, congressional Democrats tapped Mitchell as vice chairman of the 9/11 Commission. Mitchell and Henry Kissinger, then-President George W. Bush’s pick as chairman, quit the commission’s top posts after Congress required members to disclose financial information and suggested Mitchell may have to sever ties to his law firm.

The camel jockey lawsuit in September 2006, a class-action lawsuit filed by Mount Pleasant, South Carolina-based Motley Rice LLC by the children’s parents, accused al-Maktoum and others of enslaving boys from Africa and South Asia who were brought to Dubai as jockeys for camel racing, a popular sport in some parts of the Arab world.

DLA Piper picked up the case two weeks after the lawsuit was filed in the U.S. on behalf of underage camel jockeys. It set up meetings with Biden’s Senate staff on Nov. 29, 2006, followed by a Dec. 15 meeting with Obama’s staff. On Jan. 4, 2007, the firm arranged a meeting with Clinton and other senators and their aides, according to Justice Department Foreign Agent Registration Act filings.

‘Serious Problem’

A February 2005 report on the U.S. State Department Web site says that in the United Arab Emirates, which includes Dubai, “trafficking of young, noncitizen boys employed as camel jockeys continued to be a serious problem, although the Government has pledged to eliminate this practice for boys under the age of 15.” The report cited an estimate by the Ansar Burney Welfare Trust International, a Pakistan-based civil rights group, that 5,000 boys were working as camel jockeys.

The U.A.E. introduced the use of robots as riders on the camels and two years ago set up an $8 million fund to compensate former child jockeys. Human rights organizations have condemned the use of children as camel jockeys, saying the boys, mostly from Pakistan and Bangladesh and some as young as 4 years old, are abducted, sexually abused and underfed.

‘Remarkable Partnership’

Mitchell was quoted by the state-owned Emirates News Agency in January 2007 as praising the United Arab Emirates and Dubai for a “remarkable partnership with UNICEF to locate, care for and repatriate underage camel jockeys. This program has been justly praised by the international community as a model solution to a serious problem.”

DLA Piper billed the Dubai government about $8 million, according to Justice Department filings. This included almost $2.5 million between Aug. 6, 2006, and Feb. 28, 2007. Over the next six months, the firm billed Dubai over $1.2 million, as it held more than 70 meetings with senior officials at the White House, the State and Justice departments, and Congress, seeking a “statement of interest” by the U.S. government for their client.

The Justice Department on July 26, 2007, informed U.S. District Judge Cecilia Altonaga it would file a motion seeking “head of state immunity” for al-Maktoum. The judge dismissed the case days later, citing other jurisdictional issues.

A similar case was filed in Kentucky, omitting Dubai’s ruler as a defendant, and was also dismissed in November. John Eubanks, one of the lawyers who filed the cases, said the matter appears to be closed as far as U.S. courts are concerned.

To contact the reporter on this story: Timothy J. Burger in Washington at Tburger2@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: January 27, 2009 12:08 EST

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home
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Postby compared2what? » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:01 am

Is this thing on? Test, one-two, one-two.

compared2what? wrote:Pan, I'm glad to see you back on the thread. Did you have a chance to read the Army Field Manual on interrogation techniques to which Obama is reverting?

Did you notice that when it come to terrorism suspects, the techniques it explicitly permits include but are not limited to: isolation; prolonged sleep deprivation for 30-day-increments, with an increment-renewable-on-request option; sensory deprivation; "Fear Up" techniques (basically, the exploitation of an existing fear and/or the creation of a new fear, plus psychological manipulation thereof)?

When Judge Crawford threw out the case against Mohammed Al Qatani because his treatment "met the legal definition of torture" a week or two ago, those were the very techniques she was referring to.

On the good news tip: Waterboarding is not, in the letter of the law, a permissible interrogation method anymore. But then again, according to the last administration, it already wasn't.

professorpan wrote:I'm sure he will do plenty of things that will piss me off. And I will be outspoken when that occurs, just as I've been outspoken about any politician, regardless of party. But unlike the Obama-can-do-no-good RI brigade, I have now seen evidence that he will do some, possibly many, very good things.


As an opponent of torture whose President just signed orders his administration depicted as a torture ban that in fact made interrogation techniques which meet both the common-sense and legal definitions of torture the new universal standard, do you now feel any need to be outspoken? As you would about any politician?

I too see evidence that he will do some good things, btw. And I hope that he will do many good things, although I myself don't see evidence that he will yet.

Torture's not a gray area to me, however. Neither is rhetorically deceptive Presidential showboating on issues as serious as torture is. They're both clearly unacceptable, and have to be protested in the most outspoken and plainspoken terms possible.

Perhaps you agree with me. And if not, perhaps you can change my mind. So let me know, either way.

Thanks,

c2w
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Postby chlamor » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:03 am

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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:21 am

Is that Grateful dead or Jim Jones varietyKool Aid?
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Postby chlamor » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:33 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Is that Grateful dead or Jim Jones varietyKool Aid?


Listen to this madness Americana style and you'll know fer sure that here in The Homeland the Obama insanity has reached Stepfordian proportions.

It's a 17 minute clip from NPR with a discussion and phone-ins talking about Obama products. Quite surreal:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=99911106

Get your ObamaLobotomy today citizen.

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Last edited by chlamor on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby vigilant » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:39 am

Cosmic Cowbell wrote:
vigilant wrote:Always enjoy reading your posts whether I agree with em or not...

But this un here gave me the giggles. It struck my funny bone hard. Thanks for this one, it made my day...

You do realize don't you, that you just posted an artistic rendition of the Pyramid and All Seeing Eye, in the same post with a pro Obama message? This little logo you posted signifies a pyramid due to the shape of the hands, the hole in the middle is the eye, and the rays shooting outward, etc...its got it all bud.

So you might want to be a little more careful next time you decide to illustrate your point with graphics.

(i'm still laughing my ass off on this un, and i'm wondering if you're not jerking our chain. was this really a pro Obama post?)


Hmmm...I was under the assumption that the image represented 1/2 of the international sign for a blowjob....different strokes I suppose.

vigilant wrote:Alternative 1: Demand that these folks spend the rest of their life in gitmo, take their piggy banks so we can gitmo of our stuff back, and spend the money unbrainwashing our country.


Hey...that's a GREAT idea....see, that wasn't so hard now was it. Tell you what, you, Chalmor, Rocketman, Ninakat and the rest go on up ahead and get started OK...I'll be right behind you...promise.


Thank you for understanding both the sincerity and the humor in my post. I knew you didn't realize what you had posted, and I couldn't help but tell you. I admire your ability to look for the best in this situation too, I sincerely do. I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean I was trying to be noxious about it bro.......carry on.
The whole world is a stage...will somebody turn the lights on please?....I have to go bang my head against the wall for a while and assimilate....
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