Aliens, Culture Control & the End of Dream's End

[Col. Quisp]

What makes him so special?

That is the question, isn't it?

I've been reading some of his blog posts in archive.org, re: SRI. Very interesting stuff, I must say. I think a lot of people are waking up to it on their own lately, and that's why we're seeing all this whipped up frenzy re: DE/TD/JB -- to try to discredit what he was saying by tarring him as a lunatic....I ain't sayin' he was a saint! By no means! But read his SRI stuff and then make up your own mind. I try to see the good as well as the bad in people.

On a very simplistic level, and on another board, a woman was gushing about a "The Secret" seminar her office had hosted, and how she was going to try it out. I and others said how those precepts sounded like they are aimed at keeping a "good worker bee." I can't remember what they are, but one of them was 'Don't gossip." Oh and "don't have negative thoughts." Now why do you think her boss sent the workers to a New Age seminar?

Don't gossip = keep your mouth shut about something you think needs changing.

don't be negative = accept your lot in life; don't complain.

Wish I could remember the other two principles. It was so obvious that her employer was using it as a means of control.

I still don't understand why this is such a powerful strange attractor-- but it does seem to be one.

I think DE was oversimplifying though, when he says that the goal of making people less materialistic and more spiritual / inward focused (by pushing Gnosticism) is to keep us from being social reformers...I think there's more to it but I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm oversimplifying his views -- I'm still reading through those archives, after all.

It is rather odd that the Nag Hammadi library was "discovered' in 1945, and then two years later we see a lot of other weird stuff start happening (Roswell, Jack Parsons' Babalon working...you know...THAT stuff).

Why were the Gnostic texts suddenly made available in 1975?

I'm asking a lot of questions...connect the dots for me.

[Avalon]

And his subject matter touched on child abuse, and if you've known anyone who has been abused, they're seriously fucked up individuals--in part, the type of people who might get involved in such a campaign, either for self-aggrandizement or because--maybe--they're being MC'd. I'm not totally comfortable with that conclusion but I'll throw it out there.



Make of all this what you will.

Whoa. Stop right there.

If you are throwing that generalization out, throw it right into the trash bin. It's an offensive and useless generalization.

I have a number of friends who are survivors of childhood abuse. Familial and clergy sex abuse, violence. People I've known for decades.

While they bear some of their history in their lives today, they aren't "seriously fucked up." In many ways they are some of the sanest, most grounded people I know, partly because of the work they've had to do to overcome their earlier pain.

You have no right to label their lives and work with your thoughtless judgement that has nothing to do with their realities.

[mulebone]

"The 60 year history of CIA has been about shaping culture."


It's older than the CIA.

Didn't Bernays say, in his book Propaganda, that in order to have a well run democracy one must control the public mind?

That was in the 1920s, if I'm not mistaken.

The thing that amazes me about the allegations against media mind control efforts is that all the accusers seem to overlook the fact that all of this media is easily circumvented using the 'off' button.
No one puts a gun to anyone's head and forces them to watch TV or go to movies, etc.

You can find similar flights from reality here and at practically every parapolitical site on the web.
One moment folk will be dissing the media as government controlled, the next minute they'll be waxing rhapsodic about how they just can't wait to see 'V for Vendetta' or 'Watchmen.'

Seems a bit absurd.

Even without the mind control angle films and television are an obscene waste of money.
I think Alan Moore said it best:

“If I write a crappy comic book, it doesn't cost the budget of an emergent Third World nation. When you've got these kinds of sums involved in creating another two hours of entertainment for Western teenagers, I feel it crosses the line from being merely distasteful to being wrong.”

The basic fact is that Western civilization has produced huge swathes of people with extra time on their hands that they have absolutely no effing idea what to do with. Consequently, these folk don't apparently need a great amount of encouragement to piss their precious lifetime away on frivolous crapola.


"It's about becoming informed"

Then what?

I think you overlook the fact that there seems to be a great number of Americans who have absolutely no problems with the idea of being part of an American Empire. I'm sure it's the same mechanism that causes pudgy couch potato sports fans to refer to their favorite team's victories by saying "We won." In reality, they may be complete and utter losers, but by projecting themselves onto their teams victory, they magically become 'winners' too.
The only reason there is any appreciable dissatisfaction with the Iraq War in this country is because they bungled the job so badly.

If you doubt that Americans are witless rhubarbs pathologically obsessed with their own belly button lint witness the campaign of our new prez with his 'hope' and 'change' meme attack. Now, I don't seem to remember any IEDs going off in Iowa or Indiana. And Michigan hasn't had its electrical and water service running in spurts for the last 5 effing years.
And huge chunks of our population hasn't been murdered by narcissistic weenies too dishonest to admit they're murderers, but we're the ones who are endangered.
It is idiotic.
And idiotic is what America does best.

I haven't seen anyone anywhere suggest that we, as a nation, should apologize to the Iraqi people for being ignorant easily manipulated dumbfucks who believe just about anything as long as it comes from the TV.

If one can't figure out that the media is essentially bullshit just by watching it, no amount of "informing" is going to do much good.

In my opinion, anyway.

[nathan28]

And his subject matter touched on child abuse, and if you've known anyone who has been abused, they're seriously fucked up individuals--in part, the type of people who might get involved in such a campaign, either for self-aggrandizement or because--maybe--they're being MC'd. I'm not totally comfortable with that conclusion but I'll throw it out there.



Make of all this what you will.

Whoa. Stop right there.

If you are throwing that generalization out, throw it right into the trash bin. It's an offensive and useless generalization.

I have a number of friends who are survivors of childhood abuse. Familial and clergy sex abuse, violence. People I've known for decades.

While they bear some of their history in their lives today, they aren't "seriously fucked up." In many ways they are some of the sanest, most grounded people I know, partly because of the work they've had to do to overcome their earlier pain.

You have no right to label their lives and work with your thoughtless judgement that has nothing to do with their realities.

Say what you will. I've been very close with some people who have been abused who refused to get help. It was tremendously obvious that the function of abuse is to give people needs that their friends and family cannot meet, and thereby undermine any home for human intimacy. There is a reason they call it the "cycle of violence" or whatever you want. Because it self-perpetuates once it's been started. These people close to me were unreliable, prone to fabrication and saw other people as things to be punished.

What they needed was therapy. Full Stop. There is some logic to abuse. It dehumanizes. If you aren't willing to acknowledge that child sexual abuse has a lasting impact that can be to some extent exploited for destructive purposes, then I have to question your understanding of the phenomenon.

[LilyPatToo]

nathan28 said:

These people close to me were unreliable, prone to fabrication and saw other people as things to be punished.

What they needed was therapy. Full Stop. There is some logic to abuse. It dehumanizes. If you aren't willing to acknowledge that child sexual abuse has a lasting impact that can be to some extent exploited for destructive purposes, then I have to question your understanding of the phenomenon.

I'm very sorry that your personal experiences with survivors of abuse was so negative, nathan28, but to insult and attempt to invalidate all of us who happen to have not only survived, but done so with our humanity intact, is not OK.

Take a look around you here at RI. There are a number of survivors posting who have personal histories that are strongly suggestive of cult/Cult and/or government mind control programs. I'm one of them. While I'm used to the usual naysayers sniping at me, I've rarely seen a post as obnoxiously arrogant, insulting and carelessly cruel as yours above.

Some of us are currently in therapy and I suspect that most have undergone it in the past and will again in the future. This does not automatically make us unfit for interaction with the rest of humanity at all. Nor are we anymore likely to "fabricate" than anyone else...but that is a charge made by disinfo hacks in order to keep people from listening to us and possibly uncovering proof that MC programs are ongoing.

And while some abuse survivors are severely "broken" and toxic to be around, we don't all deserve to be tarred with the same brush. That's bigotry, plain and simple.

LilyPat

[Avalon]

Of course those who are abused can have it make lasting impacts on their lives, especially if they don't get therapy or have access to some other process that helps them heal. And I have loved ones who are children of those who were themselves abused, and I see how that can play out down the line.

But your words were "if you've known anyone who has been abused, they're seriously fucked up individuals."

"They are" -- present tense.

"Anyone" -- blanket statement. There's a really wide continuum of effects and causes, and you do the conversation a disservice to make a generalization like that.

[nathan28]

nathan28 said:

These people close to me were unreliable, prone to fabrication and saw other people as things to be punished.

What they needed was therapy. Full Stop. There is some logic to abuse. It dehumanizes. If you aren't willing to acknowledge that child sexual abuse has a lasting impact that can be to some extent exploited for destructive purposes, then I have to question your understanding of the phenomenon.

I'm very sorry that your personal experiences with survivors of abuse was so negative, nathan28, but to insult and attempt to invalidate all of us who happen to have not only survived, but done so with our humanity intact, is not OK.

Take a look around you here at RI. There are a number of survivors posting who have personal histories that are strongly suggestive of cult/Cult and/or government mind control programs. I'm one of them. While I'm used to the usual naysayers sniping at me, I've rarely seen a post as obnoxiously arrogant, insulting and carelessly cruel as yours above.

Some of us are currently in therapy and I suspect that most have undergone it in the past and will again in the future. This does not automatically make us unfit for interaction with the rest of humanity at all. Nor are we anymore likely to "fabricate" than anyone else...but that is a charge made by disinfo hacks in order to keep people from listening to us and possibly uncovering proof that MC programs are ongoing.

And while some abuse survivors are severely "broken" and toxic to be around, we don't all deserve to be tarred with the same brush. That's bigotry, plain and simple.

LilyPat

I may have put my foot into my mouth by speaking from experience, but every pathological liar I've known has been a victim of physical or sexual abuse. Do you know any pathological liars? It's impossible to sort out anything they've told you. Does that sound familiar?

And what I mean with that is that there's something about misdirection going on inherent to these sorts of things. Apologies for not wording it in a more sensitive manner, and for not having the foresight to word it clearly from the outset.

I didn't mean to tar everyone with the same brush, but I will own to being insensitive. But i do ask, if abuse were so non-damaging, why is it an issue? When i think about the people I know who are in the greatest amount of personal peril I am immediately thinking about at least one or two people who have gone through childhood sexual abuse. I'm positive that abuse victims have gone on to live healthy lives. But tt has a goddamn impact that I've had the misfortune to know in the second-hand and that's why it's a problem. Please don't misinterpret this.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

I'll get to your specific focus on "why DE?" after these returns-

Hugh, will you cite anything? Please. No personal speculation about the latest keyword. I want to see at least a secondary source.

I've put primary sources in the Data Dump and Psyops forums on the history of propaganda science, OSS, CIA, neuroscience, examples.

Some of your ranting about the CIA you should lay at the feet of the Kurgan tribes' fondness for horses and invasions.

Culture is shaped by the conditioning of children with CIA media, 'The Little Mermaid' and 'Buzz Lightyear,' far more than Kurgan proclivities.

Maybe Klingons.
(Men are harder to recruit with a female "clinging" to them. See 'Napoleon Solo and Han Solo.')

But how much of it is NATIONAL SECURITY and USG and how much of it is simply class struggle? I hate to flog the old Marxist horse but...

CIA social control IS class struggle, elites dominating masses by occupying their very minds. During WWII new scientific tools and bureaucratic specialization were added to what elites have been doing for eons.

You are on a reification trip. Are they "real"? They don't have a physical nexus for existence...
.....
Focusing on surface causes doesn't help.

Yes, 'they' do have a physical nexus.
Check history, documents, budgets, legislation, websites, etc.
See 'Bob Woodward,' for instance.
Or 'John Rendon.'
Or 'Lawrence Wright.'
Or 'Jane Mayer.'

Why not just harass DE the old-fashioned way?
.....
I'll kindly submit--WHY do something like what was done to DE, **IF** there was a THEY doing it?

To discredit him and thus all 'like him,' "conspiracy theorists."

And do it online where the discrediting can spread fast to precisely the demographic most likely to find things they aren't supposed to know.

I can't find the link right now, but IIRC the Barnum & Bailey Circus, which served in part as a CIA front, for years had their agent connections harassing a historian...

I know that info-suppression history. Totally different context.
She wasn't touching on as many dangerous topics to power as Duncan or DE. And she was writing a boring old hard copy book, not with an internet blog. So not nearly the potential for spreading the meme.

What makes him so special?

The context of the people and topics involved during a news cycle.

All combined into a powerful synthesis of trendy artsy truth-telling about spook culture and crimes, from Scientology to CIA ritual abuse to 9/11.
And there was something for everyone - scandal, Hollywood, rock'n'roll, a beautiful woman to ogle - a real viral marketing speed ball.

DE, by chasing all the ARG squirrels who came at him, provided a vehicle for discrediting lots of subjects and people all at once-
>Theresa Duncan (tied into videogames for girls)
>Jeremy (tied into tech-art scene)
- both outing Scientology, a rocker (Beck), CIA history, ritual abuse, 9/11
>Father Frank Morales (tied into JFK, NY 9/11 Truth, FEMA-CoG history, urban policies as counterinsurgency, more)

Duncan and Blake were staying with Morales who got a Project Censored award for his history of the militarization of police since the 60s.

Someone came here to RI to post a few times that Morales was a "disinfo guy." Then went away. I refuted the accusations by showing CIA-Pentagon involvement was real in the Kerner Commission.

The CIA media in LA played up the 'paranoid self-destructive kook' of Duncan - DreamsEnd angle to encourage opinion-shapers not to pursue any of these topics.
"No more Rosie O'Donnells or Martin Sheens or Oliver Stones or Ed Asners, please."

Make sense?

[LilyPatToo]

nathan28 said:

I didn't mean to tar everyone with the same brush, but I will own to being insensitive. But i do ask, if abuse were so non-damaging, why is it an issue?

No one is saying that it's "non-damaging"--where the heck did you get THAT?

Severe, repeated abuse will definitely damage human beings, but we do NOT all turn into pathological liars. That's false logic and it kind of boggles my mind to find here at RI.

Again, please stop labeling all of us based upon your own personal negative experience with a couple of us. We weren't all alike to begin with and the damage inflicted by the abusers we survived is highly unlikely to be the same in everyone.

LilyPat

[H_C_E]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, pick up a copy of Finnegan's Wake and read aloud for a little bit.

AMEN. I'd include RAW's "Cosmic Trigger" series as well.

Just because you can think or imagine something doesn't mean that it's true.

Every mind contains a Thinker and a Prover. What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves. And once the cycle starts it's difficult to see in order to stop it.

I certainly am willing to recognize that the CIA and other alphabet agencies have been up to no good over the years. But the Manatee theory
is absurd, and he is UNABLE to see this due to such thorough self-programming. Sometimes we have more to fear from ourselves than from some external man made bugaboo.

And finally, this utter dismissal of the mysterious aspects of our existence (derisively known as "Woo") needs to stop. It has and always will be a part of the fabric of RI. These Fortean phenomenae are fascinating and worthy of discussion, and ARE NOT by neccesity or fact, an "enemy" that needs to fought. And even if they were, it's not at the expense of exclusion of those human enemies (which as I rightly pointed out, include ourselves.)

HCE out.

[Penguin]

...

[nathan28]

nathan28 said:

I didn't mean to tar everyone with the same brush, but I will own to being insensitive. But i do ask, if abuse were so non-damaging, why is it an issue?

No one is saying that it's "non-damaging"--where the heck did you get THAT?

Severe, repeated abuse will definitely damage human beings, but we do NOT all turn into pathological liars. That's false logic and it kind of boggles my mind to find here at RI.

Again, please stop labeling all of us based upon your own personal negative experience with a couple of us. We weren't all alike to begin with and the damage inflicted by the abusers we survived is highly unlikely to be the same in everyone.

LilyPat

I didn't "label all of [you]". Drew Carey, e.g., is an example of a person who suffered sexual abuse, said it made joining the USMC easier and still went on to be a successful human, so I'm sure HMW has something to say about him. I suggested there was a pattern from my experience and will allow that while it may be isolated, there's likely another pattern of some sorts at work. After all, IIRC the goal of all that satanic government experimentation--which, now that I see that it seems like it may all be sourced out of Colin Ross's book may be disinfo bullshit--was to use abuse among other things in a controlled manner.

If you'd like me to reduce the resolution more, the basic pattern is disruption and confusion.

[nathan28]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, pick up a copy of Finnegan's Wake and read aloud for a little bit.

AMEN. I'd include RAW's "Cosmic Trigger" series as well.

Just because you can think or imagine something doesn't mean that it's true.

Every mind contains a Thinker and a Prover. What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves. And once the cycle starts it's difficult to see in order to stop it.

I certainly am willing to recognize that the CIA and other alphabet agencies have been up to no good over the years. But the Manatee theory
is absurd, and he is UNABLE to see this due to such thorough self-programming. Sometimes we have more to fear from ourselves than from some external man made bugaboo.

And finally, this utter dismissal of the mysterious aspects of our existence (derisively known as "Woo") needs to stop. It has and always will be a part of the fabric of RI. These Fortean phenomenae are fascinating and worthy of discussion, and ARE NOT by neccesity or fact, an "enemy" that needs to fought. And even if they were, it's not at the expense of exclusion of those human enemies (which as I rightly pointed out, include ourselves.)

HCE out.

Not a big Bob Wilson fan myself... his thinking ends up being a closed system--not for him, but in every person I've ever known who's discussed it. He also published under New Falcon, which had production values so low it made me want a refund. But I realize that R.A. Wilson's work is really the first place a lot of people even discover the possibility that they can consider things from more than one perspective, which makes me want to weep.

I've bolded the important part of what you've written, partly because it's what's in question. DE made a point of it being an issue, and I think that's part of what's at the core of this. TD/JB pointed not to the surface woo but to the hidden-in-public woo of the Church of Scientology. Etc. That's the only thing I can see that sorts them out from the rest.

[Trifecta]

If we see ourselfes as victims, that becomes our essence. If we are able to rise above victim hood we become power influencers, live changers and thought leaders, it changes us in the process.

Sometimes real shit makes us real people, able to empathise with all sufferers whatever the crime or misfortune they have to endure.

Empathy for life will be the saviour of this planet.

[smiths]

i am confused penguin, where in this thread did the finnegans wake comment come from, cos you've quoted it but i dont see were it appears at all?