Aliens, Culture Control & the End of Dream's End

[H_C_E]

Not a big Bob Wilson fan myself... his thinking ends up being a closed system--not for him, but in every person I've ever known who's discussed it.

Ironic and sad, that. It should only serve as a jumping off point for learning how to practice independent and logical thought. It is my opinion that if a person is going to engage in this business of tracking the tentacles of the Octopus, they had better get a handle on how to deal in probabilities, fuzzy logic and 100,000 shades of gray. Post modern thought is only a thread bare beginning. Learning how to think and speak operationally is necessary too. Otherwise one can become convinced of all manner of outrageous sh*t and become trapped in a belief system of their own making without even realizing it.

Sound familiar?

"You are number six." And there's no way off the island...

There are more than a few members here who seem to have fallen prey to this syndrome. And then one is left to surfing the Net, using lots of drugs or alcohol to try to numb the fear and anxiety. Then "They" really have won, haven't they?

[LilyPatToo]

nathan28 said:

I suggested there was a pattern from my experience and will allow that while it may be isolated, there's likely another pattern of some sorts at work. After all, IIRC the goal of all that satanic government experimentation--which, now that I see that it seems like it may all be sourced out of Colin Ross's book may be disinfo bullshit--was to use abuse among other things in a controlled manner.

If you'd like me to reduce the resolution more, the basic pattern is disruption and confusion.

While Colin Ross's book Bluebird (reprinted as The CIA Doctors) is a great source of information on the mind control programs, it's by no means the sole source and the information in it can be cross-checked with the surviving MKULTRA documents and with survivors' accounts. IOW, even if Dr. Ross has done some bizarre things (like that code or joining the board of the FMSF), his extensive work with program survivors who are DID/MPD has produced masses of valuable data.

John Marks did an awe-inspiring amount of research before writing The Manchurian Candidate and many other researchers have contributed too. You can read interviews with some of them (and with survivors) here at the KCLN Mind Control Series page.

I don't fully understand what you mean by the overall pattern you report seeing (of disruption and confusion). Are you referring to what the survivors were programed to do? Or to their day-to-day behavior now, outside of the program?

As I said above, you may have had bad experiences with a couple of individuals that are literally nothing like the way that many of the rest of us behave. I have my bad days when something triggers me, but it has never led me to lie, pathologically or otherwise. And only a very few of the other program survivors I know online could be described as "disruptive" or of sowing "confusion." But, of course, the more damaged, hostile people do tend to draw a lot of negative attention to themselves, while the rest of us lead quieter, more productive lives, despite what we've experienced.

LilyPat

[smiths]

ok sorry penguin, i now see it in nathans post

I've said it once, I'll say it again, pick up a copy of Finnegan's Wake and read aloud for a little bit.

why?

AnnaLiviaPlurabelle was the first i know of to raise this book in 2005 about which she said (although deep-study of Finnegans Wake with a genius mentor I have the great fortune to know, has in some ways taken me to the realm past veil 8 even…more on which some other time.)

i now realixe that AnnaLivia and HCE both derive names from the book

and i cant help feeling that LilyPatToo is somehow connected

what the hell is going on here?

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Nevermind Finnegan's Wake.

Pick up a copy of Goebbel's Rules of Propaganda.
Pick up a copy of Charles Osgood's and William McGuire's work on cognition.
Pick up a copy of Army Field Manual 33-1 Psychological Operations.
Pick up a copy of Army Field Manual 100-20 Military Operations in Low intensity Conflict.

Then you'd have some history and science background to analyze psyops media and Strategic Culture instead.

[smiths]

fair enough hugh,

i just wanted to know what it was all about,

back to the psyops

[OP ED]

Nevermind Finnegan's Wake.

Pick up a copy of Goebbel's Rules of Propaganda.
Pick up a copy of Charles Osgood's and William McGuire's work on cognition.
Pick up a copy of Army Field Manual 33-1 Psychological Operations.
Pick up a copy of Army Field Manual 100-20 Military Operations in Low intensity Conflict.

Then you'd have some history and science background to analyze psyops media and Strategic Culture instead.

see also PDF's i linked to in the end of the PSYOP/Disinfo thread. they're all DOD manuals of sorts. most of them fairly recent.

http://www.dodccrp.org/html4/books_downloads.html

[OP ED]

though you should still read Finnegan's.

poo poo Hugh.

[Trifecta]

“When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they either cease being mistaken or they cease being honest.”
- Anonymous

[Joe Hillshoist]

Just out of interest, has anyone actually read changing Images, and if so, did you read a book, a text file, or that goddam scanned PDF.

(Sorry guys I appreciate having it, Its just hard for me to read it for some reason. I think the idea of reading photos instead of looking at them is fucking with my head.)

I have a few questions.

Whats gained by faking alien abductions? There must be a list of possible answers, cos I can think of several things.

At what point did the possibility of alien spaceships become unreasonable, or obviously impossible, by the standards of accepted mainstreal science?

Did it actually become "unreasonable" and "impossible".

So, Dream's End starts looking closely at a topic and comes to a conclusion, that the "alien" craze really covers up the acute part of a campaign of mind control, one that involved all manner of abuse that would be fitting for Jonestown. He also suggests--like HMW, but more calmly and believably--that there's a larger cultural mind control project** that is, in some ways, different from all previous cultures' means of generating consensus. I'm not sure if I agree with that latter bit, but still.

I dunno if SRI''s report is "cultural mind control" or cultural yoga and self assessment.

And until I read it I'm not gonna be able to comment.

One piece of advice that might be worth considering is that you are not living in a movie. If there is a "plot", you are not the star. You are most likely the dead body at the start of the movie. If you act like it is a movie and you are the star, then you will end up as the dead body at the start of the movie.

If you act like its life, and the only world you are the centre of is your own, then maybe you will sus shit out.

If you think its movie written by god for your benefit, at some point your critical thinking skills will go out the window.

I suspect that is what happened to DE, tho whatever caused it ...

I have a few opinions on this whole thing. Some of them would crack you up and some might cause outrage among some people, tho if you think I'm talking about you being outraged you are probably wrong, I doubt those who'd be outraged were involved. But who knows. I often wonder if its got nothing to do with aliens or SRI or scientology, or even TD or anything remotely connected to whatever we think it is.

Sometimes I wonder if the net became self aware and is playing practical jokes on everyone.

Not very often tho, the probability of that having anything to do with the whole saga is under 1% IMO.

Then I wonder why I'm wasting my time and energy wondering about it.

I'm not doubting the validity of his research, possibly one or two of his conlclusions, but what if that actually had nothing to do with it. What if he pissed someone off who lived next door to him, and they decided to fuck his life up? And that was part of it.

I think its getting to the point where we need to get the last of this td/jb/de mess out of the way and actually focus on his research, and the targets of his research, which is what would have happened if this mess hadn't happened. I'm really hoping thats what this latest thing has been about, and even if it wasn't, thats what the people that value this board need to make happen.

If he was targeted because of his research and its exposure here, then perhaps its time we paid it some serious attention again, like we would have if he hadn't imploded. And do something useful with it, if there is anything useful to do with it. If he was targeted thats why, to stop us as well as him doing his thing, cos it seems that while he may be a jerk, perhaps he was pushed to behave like a jerk specifically to divide him and his ideas from the people on this board.

If so should we let that happen?

And who cares if he was a prick. If he was well then fuck him. If he behaved at his worse, but really wishes he hadn't maybe he deserves a second chance. Thats not really up to me, and its irrelevent too. Cos whatever useful things he did uncover, we on this board haven't really got into them IMO. Not the way we could. And if he was targeted thats why.

Are we gonna continue to let that happen?

It often seems to me that when his ideas come up we get in this don't go there spiral over the whole ugly mess when he left, or got booted, and what lead to it.

Are we gonna continue to let THAT happen?

[Fat Lady Singing]

One piece of advice that might be worth considering is that you are not living in a movie. If there is a "plot", you are not the star. You are most likely the dead body at the start of the movie. If you act like it is a movie and you are the star, then you will end up as the dead body at the start of the movie.

If you act like its life, and the only world you are the centre of is your own, then maybe you will sus shit out.

If you think its movie written by god for your benefit, at some point your critical thinking skills will go out the window.

I suspect that is what happened to DE, tho whatever caused it ...

Joe, that is very well put. I often get the impression that the desire to be somehow "more special" than others is behind a lot of weird Internet meltdowns I've seen (Dream's End's being only one particularly spectacular example). This is not to say that bad stuff doesn't really happen to these people, though. I wonder if They, whoever They might be, target such people knowing they'll be easy to manipulate.

On the other hand, to say that they're targets at all may be giving them "more special" status. Hm.

If a dude implodes on the Internet and nobody reads it, does he make a sound?

[American Dream]

Joe Hillshoist wrote:

One piece of advice that might be worth considering is that you are not living in a movie. If there is a "plot", you are not the star. You are most likely the dead body at the start of the movie. If you act like it is a movie and you are the star, then you will end up as the dead body at the start of the movie.

If you act like its life, and the only world you are the centre of is your own, then maybe you will sus shit out.

If you think its movie written by god for your benefit, at some point your critical thinking skills will go out the window.


WORD-

This is the cause of a lot of people's problems and confusions.

[Penguin]

One piece of advice that might be worth considering is that you are not living in a movie. If there is a "plot", you are not the star. You are most likely the dead body at the start of the movie. If you act like it is a movie and you are the star, then you will end up as the dead body at the start of the movie.

If you act like its life, and the only world you are the centre of is your own, then maybe you will sus shit out.

If you think its movie written by god for your benefit, at some point your critical thinking skills will go out the window.

Well said. That line of thinking tends to lead to paranoid personal hell also....

I havent read the SRI stuff, maybe I should - might later today if I feel up to it - have it as pdf as well but I dont mind reading pics...Ill comment on that when I do.

(haha, so others liked that too)

[Joe Hillshoist]

I speak a lot of wild stuff on the net, and have some pretty mad ideas and am open about some very strange experiences I have had and mad shit I've seen.

Someone here tried to convince me I was a monarch Multiple programmed psychic mind killer or something. Whoever they were, they had read a fair bit of stuff i have said, they made some very seductive arguments that could have definitely appealed to someone who wanted to live life like a movie. Well it seemed that way. Oh and an alien abductee, and regular one at that, with implants and everything.

I mean, maybe they hadn't, maybe they genuinely believe it,( or were trying to reach out in some way i don't fathom, and maybe its true and part of their life, but I doubt it, especially after they way they behaved.)

Or maybe they make this shit up and its a standard thing and I'm over analysing it.

I don't consider it that big a deal, tho if i was unstable it could have been. And I gave them a bit of rope too, so I could form my own opinions on them. The rest of which I'll probably keep to myself. (So don't ask.)

Funnily enough I can't find the pms... Tho I probably deleted them.

[stefano]

I had Changing Images of Man printed from the pdf and bound, so I have it as a book. I read the first chapter then got caught up in a house move and haven't got any further since. I scanned through it yesterday again, I won't give an opinion until I've read it all but my feeling is that the corporate state took the SRI's methods and used some of them (for the benefit of the powerful corporations), instead of using the whole idea.

Anyway the idea that mentalities need to change if we want to avoid disaster is pretty obvious to me.

So no opinion yet, have another book to finish then I'll get stuck in again.

[nathan28]

@LilyPatToo: By "pattern" i mean like a constellation. Isolated points that might be part of something bigger. And when I say "confusion" i mean just that: a fundamental confusion.

I was watching the Propaghanda Broadcasting System a few months ago and they had a clip from an upcoming program that showed a reenactment from Gitmo: an actor in an orange jumpsuit with a hood over his head (with eyeslits) chained to a single point on the floor by his wrists and ankles with a strobing light flickering. Then it hit me: the point of the MC project was never to "master" mind control but simply to fuck with people to the greatest extent possible. Or, put another way, the actual intention behind mastering mind control isn't to control people as it is to destroy them without killing them: to, in a way, weaponize them. I'd suggest that sexually abusing children is about as close to that as possible.

That said, of course, as long as someone's brain is still running it's possible for them to heal or disobey. It's clear to me that our culture is quite neurotic about this to begin with. But control, of course, isn't 1-to-1, it's heuristic.

That's part of what's at issue. Sidney Gottlieb's stated goal with MK-ULTRA etc. was to see whether a human could be made to act on an order in a way that would override his or her own self-preservation drive.

Do you see what the problem is there? We've known since the dawn of agriculture that you can order men to rush into lethal circumstances and most of them will do it. The whole project was/is moot.

Which, to me, suggests there is something of an anti-intelligence behind it all. But that bit is superstition.

Just out of interest, has anyone actually read changing Images, and if so, did you read a book, a text file, or that goddam scanned PDF.

I have the print-out of the PDF, with comments like "Duh" "phillistines" and "did this really take a gov't grant?" etc. written throughout. It's not a hard read but it is kind of like TV, oddly easy but you walk a way a little dumber afterwards.

I have a few questions.

Whats gained by faking alien abductions? There must be a list of possible answers, cos I can think of several things.

At what point did the possibility of alien spaceships become unreasonable, or obviously impossible, by the standards of accepted mainstreal science?

Did it actually become "unreasonable" and "impossible".

I think I have an answer to that but it's a bit lengthier and relates back to the SRI project tangentially.

If you think its movie written by god for your benefit, at some point your critical thinking skills will go out the window.

I suspect that is what happened to DE, tho whatever caused it ...

Sometimes I wonder if the net became self aware and is playing practical jokes on everyone...

I'm not doubting the validity of his research, possibly one or two of his conlclusions, but what if that actually had nothing to do with it. What if he pissed someone off who lived next door to him, and they decided to fuck his life up?

I think it's very easy to do this. People overestimate how thick the wall between sanity and neurosis is. In my OP I mention that I was bothered (enough to start this thread, which I hope resolves more than just my own concerns (which were dissolved by mere valerian root)) by someone so much as associating me with an elements of the TD/JB ARG. I think that's totally possible, and more likely, actually. How much of this was "psyops Special Forces" and how much of it was just Assholes on the Internet? What is clear to me is that whatever it is, to some extent, it is actively policed, i.e., someone or some group has made the thing their project (see, e.g., cocoaandtruffles, which I thought at first was just some innocent lulz being had at a substitute teacher with bad punctation's expense but has since become ghoulish). Whether it's an Internet Asshole or something Spookier, though, is important but without some serious InfoSec Jiu-Jitsu & FCC violations probably not going to happen.

I think its getting to the point where we need to get the last of this td/jb/de mess out of the way and actually focus on his research, and the targets of his research, which is what would have happened if this mess hadn't happened. I'm really hoping thats what this latest thing has been about, and even if it wasn't, thats what the people that value this board need to make happen.

If he was targeted because of his research and its exposure here, then perhaps its time we paid it some serious attention again, like we would have if he hadn't imploded. And do something useful with it, if there is anything useful to do with it. If he was targeted thats why, to stop us as well as him doing his thing, cos it seems that while he may be a jerk, perhaps he was pushed to behave like a jerk specifically to divide him and his ideas from the people on this board.

That was my point, I want the parasite that's growing on this thing to be removed. I really don't care for one more TD/JB theory. I have about six and none of them matter that much to me.

But that said, the whole thing might just be empty and just a parasite.