Federal Reserve losing control

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Postby anothershamus » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:46 pm

Image


dollar just fell off a cliff
)'(
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Postby justdrew » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:51 pm

OMFG Fed to buy 300bil in long term treasuries!

buried several paragraphs in...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

ok, I thought this was a first, but it looks like they bought treasuries in early December 2008 as well.
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Postby justdrew » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:16 pm

Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Helicopter Ben finally hauls out the helicopter
Posted by Justin Fox

The Federal Open Market Committee, that group whose interest rate decisions we used to care about back before the Federal funds rate settled down around 0.15%, moved markets this afternoon with its announcement that it was going to buy lots more mortgage securities (up to $750 billion more) and start buying long-term Treasuries (up to $300 billion worth) for the first time in a very long time.

It was a somewhat surprising announcement, given that the Fed has so far purchased only $69 billion of the $500 billion in Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Ginnie Mae mortgage securities it had already committed to buying, and Fed chairman Ben Bernanke had been giving hints that he wasn't quite ready to start buying Treasuries yet. Stock and bond markets initially took it as good news—a sign that the Fed still can do a lot to keep lending going to ease the recession.

But the stock market rally didn't last long, and it probably shouldn't have, because the Fed's move into the long-term Treasury market is a momentous and somewhat unsettling one. As the federal government issues trillions in new debt to finance stimulus spending and the daily operations of government, the quasi-governmental Fed will now be buying hundreds of billions of it, in the process creating new money out of thin air (the Fed doesn't actually have money set aside to buy stuff; when it buys something, the money suddenly, magically exists).

It's a very weird, somewhat circular transaction, and it was last done in a big way during World War II. At the time the Fed wasn't so much making monetary policy as doing its patriotic bit to finance the war (it was a de facto division of the Treasury Department at the time), but it worked on both counts: The deflationary tendencies of the 1930s were finally fully expunged from the economy, and we beat the bad guys. Later on, Milton Friedman described this kind of transaction as the functional equivalent of a "helicopter drop" of money, and after Ben Bernanke mentioned this in a speech in 2002 he became known as Helicopter Ben. Now he's finally living up to the name.*

Will it work? In the sense of fending off deflation, yeah, this should have an impact. But the financial world and America's position in it are more complicated than in the 1940s. We now owe lots of money to creditors outside the U.S., and when they see the Fed buying long-dated Treasuries they're bound to start worrying about what that means for the dollar. If they get too worried, they could drive up interest rates here and counter the impact of the Fed's purchases. So there are limits to the Fed's magical powers, and they already began showing up in currency markets this afternoon, with the dollar falling sharply against the euro and other foreign currencies. The adventure continues.

* Both Friedman and Bernanke were talking about a tax cut financed by Fed purchases of long-term Treasuries, but it seems to me that the current mix of stimulus, tax cuts, entitlement spending and falling tax receipts due to lower incomes is more or less equivalent.

---

Dollar Falls Most Since 2000 on Fed’s Plan to Buy Treasuries

By Ye Xie and Molly Seltzer

March 18 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar fell the most against the euro since September 2000 as the Federal Reserve said it will purchase $300 billion of longer-term Treasuries, spurring speculation the central bank is debasing the currency.

The greenback may extend its 5.6 percent decline against the currencies of six major U.S. trading partners since reaching the highest in almost three years in early March as the central bank prepared to flood the market with dollars. Citigroup Inc. currency analysts recommended adding to bets that the greenback will depreciate after it weakened beyond $1.34 per euro for the first time since Jan. 12.

“It did shock the market,” said Jack Iles, a money manager in Boston at MFC Global Investment Management, with $2.5 billion under management. “The Fed is printing money, which translates into general dollar weakness. There’s trillions being funded and committed. It’s a huge dollar negative.”

The dollar depreciated as much as 3.6 percent to $1.3498 per euro, the biggest intraday decline since September 2000, before trading at $1.3491 at 4 p.m. in New York. The dollar lost 2.3 percent to 96.29 yen from 98.60. The yen dropped 0.4 percent to 128.80 per euro from 128.35.

The Federal Open Market Committee said in its statement today that the central bank will buy longer-term U.S. government debt and purchase an additional $750 billion of agency mortgage- backed securities, a policy known as quantitative easing.

‘Full-Court Press’

“This is a full-court press by the Fed,” said Mike Moran, a senior currency strategist at Standard Chartered Bank in New York. “This is an aggressive move by the Fed to pump as much money as possible into the system. This will recharge bullish sentiment that spells more weakness in the dollar.”

The Dollar Index, which the ICE uses to track the greenback’s performance against the euro, yen, pound, Canadian dollar, Swiss franc and Swedish krona, dropped 2.7 percent to 84.595. The gauge fell 5.6 percent since reaching 89.62 on March 4, the highest level since April 2006.

Yields on the 10-year Treasury note dropped the most in one day since January 1962. At 2.51 percent, the yield on the benchmark Treasury note was 0.71 percentage points lower than that of comparable maturity German bunds. The gap widened more than a half-percentage point from 0.18 percentage point yesterday, making the U.S. assets less attractive.

“The dollar should weaken in the wake of lower U.S. yields,” currency strategists at Citigroup wrote in a research note today. “We have long argued that U.S. policy would eventually drive sustained dollar depreciation, and today’s Fed action could signal that the next leg lower is forthcoming.”

Krona Versus Dollar

Most major currencies rallied against the dollar, with the Swedish krona gaining 4.2 percent to 8.0975 and the Canadian dollar appreciating 1.6 percent to C$1.2499 as the Fed’s move encouraged investors to seek higher returns.

“Sell the dollar!” said Scott Ainsbury, a portfolio manager who helps manage about $12 billion in currencies at New York-based hedge fund FX Concepts Inc. “This is huge, huge. It’s equivalent to the Plaza accord. This is the last thing they have in the closet, and they used it a bit early.”

In 1985, U.S., the U.K., France, Japan and West Germany agreed at New York’s Plaza Hotel to coordinate the devaluation of the dollar against the yen and deutsche mark.

The yen earlier touched the weakest level against the euro this year as the Bank of Japan said after its two-day policy meeting that it will step up purchases of government bonds from banks, spurring concern it will flood the market with currency.

Yen Versus Euro

Japan’s currency was headed for a 2.2 percent decline against the euro this quarter as Japan’s deepening recession undermined demand for the currency as a refuge.

Sterling declined as much as 2.2 percent to 94.87 pence against the euro, the weakest level since Jan. 26, as the Office for National Statistics reported that unemployment claims rose by 138,400 to 1.39 million. The median forecast of 20 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News was for an increase of 84,800.

Bank of England policy makers voted unanimously to start printing as much as 75 billion pounds ($105 billion) to fight the recession as they cut the benchmark interest rate to a record low of 0.5 percent, according to minutes of the March 5 decision released in London today.

U.S. policy makers maintained a fed funds target range of zero to 0.25 percent today, matching the median forecast of 72 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. The dollar fell to what was a 13-year low against the yen on Dec. 17, the day after the central bank last lowered the target lending rate.
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Postby Byrne » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Financial Times (UK) wrote:Watchdog fears market ‘Ponzimonium’

By Javier Blas, Commodities Correspondent

Published: March 20 2009 19:35 | Last updated: March 20 2009 19:35

US federal regulators have warned of a “rampant Ponzimonium” as they disclosed they are investigating “hundreds” of possible scams in the aftermath of the $50bn fraud allegedly perpetrated by Bernard Madoff.

Bart Chilton, a commissioner at the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, the US regulator, said the watchdog was “seeing more of these scams than ever before” in commodities and other futures markets.

Mr Chilton said the CFTC, which patrol commodities and financial futures markets such as derivatives on stocks and foreign exchange, was investigating “hundreds of individuals and entities, many of which were related to Ponzi scams”.

The CFTC has filed charges against 15 alleged Ponzi schemes so far this year, compared with 13 during the whole of 2008. If the rate were sustained, the regulator could end the year filling more than 60 cases, officials said.

US regulators have said they are detecting more scams than before as the publicity surrounding Mr Madoff‘s case prompts some investors to question the credibility of returns.

But this is the first time a senior regulator has publicly put the number of investigation in the “hundreds”.

“The floundering economy has unearthed many of these house-of-card scams,” said Mr Chilton. “In the last month alone we’ve gone after crooks in Pennsylvania, New York, North Carolina, Iowa, Idaho, Texas and Hawaii.”

Mr Chilton did not provide details of the investigations but it is likely the majority of the cases relate to small investments, in the range of a few million dollars to $50m (€37m, £35m). In the latest case, the CFTC this week charged a North Carolina investment company over an alleged $40m Ponzi scheme in foreign exchange trading.

“These frauds combined harmed tens of thousands of hard-working Americans, many of whom thought they were investing properly to save for retirement or even their first home,” said Mr Chilton.

“It is a good thing that folks are double-checking to ensure they aren’t being ripped off by fraudsters,” he said, referring to the increasing number of investors who are tipping off US federal regulators after they have become suspicious.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009
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Postby Trifecta » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:25 am

Follow the Bailout Cash

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190363?digg=1
There was plenty of outrage on Capitol Hill last week over the executive bonuses paid out by AIG after getting federal bailout money. But another money trail could make voters just as angry: the campaign dollars to members of Congress from banks and firms that have received billions via the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

While a few big firms, such as Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase, have curtailed their campaign giving, others are quietly doling out cash to select members of Congress, particularly those who serve on committees that oversee TARP. In recent filings with the Federal Election Commission, the political action committee for Bank of America (which got $15 billion in bailout money) sent out $24,500 in the first two months of 2009, including $1,500 to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and another $15,000 to members of the House and Senate banking panels. Citigroup ($25 billion) dished out $29,620, including $2,500 to House GOPWhip Eric Cantor, who also got $10,000 from UBS which, while not a TARP recipient, got $5 billion in bailout funds as an AIG "counterparty." "This certainly appears to be a case of TARP funds being recycled into campaign contributions," says Brett Kappell, a D.C. lawyer who tracks donations. (A spokesman for Cantor did not respond to requests for comment. A spokeswoman for Hoyer said it's his "policy to accept legal contributions.")

The cash flow is already causing angst inside the Beltway. "The last thing I want to do is wake up one morning and see our PAC check being burned on C-Span," said one bank lobbyist, who asked not to be identified because of the issue's sensitivity. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Financial Services chair Rep. Barney Frank both said recently they won't take donations from TARP recipients. But House Democratic fundraisers have quietly passed the word that the party's campaign committee will resume accepting them—but down the road, not right now. Said one fundraiser, who also requested anonymity, "These are treacherous waters."
the future is already here—it just got distributed to the wealthy first
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Postby antiaristo » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:13 pm

One question about the structured finance fraud has always bugged me. How on earth were the salesmen able to convince the buyers that the extra yield - in many cases no more than 20 to 30 basis points - was worth the extra risk associated with something new and unfamiliar?

I think this is the answer.

The salesmen stressed how their own organisation was investing billions of their own money in the same instruments. What's more, the salesman's institution would be subordinate to his customer. In other words, Goldman Sachs or whoever would lose all of their own money before the buyers would lose any of their own.

That's powerful.

That's putting your money where your mouth is.

Or is it?

Look at what happened:

Friday, March 20, 2009
What is wrong with the Wall Street culture?
Goldman Sachs put on a little dog and pony show today to explain to the witless public that they had almost no net exposure to AIG and so the bail out of AIG was NOT a de facto bailout of Goldman.

This is how it works. Goldman and AIG had a special business relationship. Goldman bought junk mortgages from fraudulent, predatory lenders and other toxic assets and bundled them into securities to sell to some unsuspecting fool such as a municipal pension fund in Norway . To convince these utter marks that Goldman had some skin in the game, they held on to some of the mortgage exposure. See, if they are good enough for Goldman, they are good enough for your stupid Norwegian backwater. Except, they didn't really keep the exposure on the books. No way! They aren't stupid. They hedged this exposure with AIG. They bought insurance contracts with AIG, the so called credit default swaps (CDSs). So if the shit hits the fan in the mortgage market, Goldman will be OK even if the Norwegians get their cold white asses handed to them.

But then their business partner, AIG, started to look kind of sickly. Whoops. Looks like that hedge might not be reliable. How do we hedge our hedge? At this point there was no one else willing to write a big insurance contract against mortgage defaults since they were already defaulting. No one sells flood insurance during a flood. If AIG goes down, Goldman would as well. How would Goldman get out of this one? By shorting the bejesus out of AIG, that's how! They took out CDSs on AIG that would pay out if AIG went down. That's right. They bet that their business partner would fail so that if they did, on the whole, they would come out OK. So in the end, says Goldman, we couldn't care either way what happened to AIG, the fools getting foreclosed on or those dumb Norwegians. We took responsibility for our company and made sure that we would come out OK regardless what happened. So we are innocent of all these accusations of needing a stealth bailout.

What really amazes me is that they thought this would somehow convince people to leave them alone. See, we didn't need a bailout. We already bet that AIG would fail. In fact we bet that all of you would fail. We have no exposure to any of you. We are betting against Norway as we speak. Pretty sure they are going down. We should know since we are the ones that sold them all this garbage.

This culture of Wall Street is now about forming business relationships and then making sure you have no "exposure" to the fate of these partners. That is, business relationships are now like some disease that you are get "exposed to". Prudent business policy now is to actively bet against your business partner's very survival so that if they go down, you come out just fine. What kind of culture are we breeding on Wall Street. It is everyone for themselves. No one trusts anyone. No one is willing to form normal business relationships where you and your partner are truly in the same boat. Goldman's meeting today displayed this more clearly than I have seen before. The amazing thing is that didn't even consider that what they were admitting to was worse than what they were trying to defend their company against.


http://certainruin.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... lture.html

Nice people!

And here, from the Rolling Stone article, an indication of how a regulation free entity was able to function within the London capital markets:

In the biggest joke of all, Cassano's wheeling and dealing was regulated by the Office of Thrift Supervision, an agency that would prove to be defiantly uninterested in keeping watch over his operations. How a behemoth like AIG came to be regulated by the little-known and relatively small OTS is yet another triumph of the deregulatory instinct. Under another law passed in 1999, certain kinds of holding companies could choose the OTS as their regulator, provided they owned one or more thrifts (better known as savings-and-loans). Because the OTS was viewed as more compliant than the Fed or the Securities and Exchange Commission, companies rushed to reclassify themselves as thrifts. In 1999, AIG purchased a thrift in Delaware and managed to get approval for OTS regulation of its entire operation.

Making matters even more hilarious, AIGFP — a London-based subsidiary of an American insurance company — ought to have been regulated by one of Europe's more stringent regulators, like Britain's Financial Services Authority. But the OTS managed to convince the Europeans that it had the muscle to regulate these giant companies. By 2007, the EU had conferred legitimacy to OTS supervision of three mammoth firms — GE, AIG and Ameriprise.

That same year, as the subprime crisis was exploding, the Government Accountability Office criticized the OTS, noting a "disparity between the size of the agency and the diverse firms it oversees." Among other things, the GAO report noted that the entire OTS had only one insurance specialist on staff — and this despite the fact that it was the primary regulator for the world's largest insurer!

"There's this notion that the regulators couldn't do anything to stop AIG," says a government official who was present during the bailout. "That's bullshit. What you have to understand is that these regulators have ultimate power. They can send you a letter and say, 'You don't exist anymore,' and that's basically that. They don't even really need due process. The OTS could have said, 'We're going to pull your charter; we're going to pull your license; we're going to sue you.' And getting sued by your primary regulator is the kiss of death."

When AIG finally blew up, the OTS regulator ostensibly in charge of overseeing the insurance giant — a guy named C.K. Lee — basically admitted that he had blown it. His mistake, Lee said, was that he believed all those credit swaps in Cassano's portfolio were "fairly benign products." Why? Because the company told him so. "The judgment the company was making was that there was no big credit risk," he explained. (Lee now works as Midwest region director of the OTS; the agency declined to make him available for an interview.)


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... over/print


How anyone can deny that this, like Lloyds of London, was a setup, is completely beyond yours truly.
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Postby chiggerbit » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:09 pm

Thanks, anti. Hope you don't mind, but I' borrowing that top link.
Last edited by chiggerbit on Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ninakat » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:48 pm

Geithner Plan Will Rob US Taxpayers: Stiglitz
By: Reuters | 24 Mar 2009 | 07:16 AM ET

The U.S. government plan to rid banks of toxic assets will rob American taxpayers by exposing them to too much risk and is unlikely to work as long as the economy remains weak, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz said on Tuesday.

"The Geithner plan is very badly flawed," Stiglitz told Reuters in an interview during a Credit Suisse Asian Investment Conference in Hong Kong.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner's plan to wipe up to US$1 trillion in bad debt off banks' balance sheets, unveiled on Monday, offered "perverse incentives", Stiglitz said.

The U.S. government is basically using the taxpayer to guarantee against downside risk on the value of these assets, while giving the upside, or potential profits, to private investors, he said.

"Quite frankly, this amounts to robbery of the American people. I don't think it's going to work because I think there'll be a lot of anger about putting the losses so much on the shoulder of the American taxpayer."

Even if the plan clears banks of massive toxic debt, worries about the economic outlook mean banks could still be unwilling to make fresh loans, while the prospect of a higher tax burden to pay for various government stimulus plans could further undermine U.S. consumers, he said.

Some Republican lawmakers have also expressed concern over the incentives offered by the government, which could end up providing private investors with more than 90 percent of the funds to buy the troubled assets.

But President Barack Obama has said the plan was critical to a U.S. economic recovery, Stiglitz, a professor at New York's Columbia University and a former World Bank chief economist, also urged G20 leaders at their London summit next month to commit to providing greater resources to developing countries and said China should be given bigger voting rights in the International Monetary Fund.

"The voices of developing countries, and countries like China that will provide a lot of the money, are not heard."

China would be hard pushed to reach its targeted 8 percent economic growth this year, but the important thing was that at least the Chinese economy was still growing, he said.

Stiglitz welcomed China's proposal on Monday for an overhaul of the world monetary system in which Zhou Xiaochuan, governor of the People's Bank of China, said the IMF's Special Drawing Right has the potential to become a super-sovereign reserve currency.

Stiglitz has long called for the U.S. dollar to be replaced as the only reserve currency.

Basing a reserve system on a single currency whose strength depends on confidence its own economy is not a good basis for a global system, he says.

"We may be at the beginning of a loss of confidence (in the U.S. dollar reserve system)," he said. "I think there is support for some sort of global reserve system."
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Postby slimmouse » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:58 pm



Manufactured "proletarian" servitude.
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Postby Luposapien » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:48 pm

More "Banks gone Wild" in the news...

[url=http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/03/11/now_needy_fdic_collected_little_in_premiums/?page=full?ref=fp1]Now-needy FDIC collected little in premiums
With fund going strong, banks didn't pay for decade
[/url]

By Michael Kranish
Globe Staff / March 11, 2009

WASHINGTON - The federal agency that insures bank deposits, which is asking for emergency powers to borrow up to $500 billion to take over failed banks, is facing a potential major shortfall in part because it collected no insurance premiums from most banks from 1996 to 2006.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which insures deposits up to $250,000, tried for years to get congressional authority to collect the premiums in case of a looming crisis. But Congress believed that the fund was so well-capitalized - and that bank failures were so infrequent - that there was no need to collect the premiums for a decade, according to banking officials and analysts.


Now with 25 banks having failed last year, 17 so far this year, and many more expected in the coming months, the FDIC has proposed large new premiums for banks at the very time when many can least afford to pay. The agency collected $3 billion in the fees last year and has proposed collecting up to $27 billion this year, prompting an outcry from some banks that say it will force them to raise consumer fees and curtail lending.

To possibly reduce the fee increase, the FDIC has asked Congress for the temporary authority to borrow as much as $500 billion from the US Treasury - up from the current $30 billion limit - in case the number of bank failures increases even more dramatically. If Congress approves the measure, to borrow more than $100 billion, the FDIC would still need permission from the Federal Reserve, the Treasury Department, and the White House.

As of Dec. 31, the FDIC had $18.9 billion in its insurance fund - down from $52.4 billion a year earlier - in addition to $22 billion that it has set aside for pending bank failures. The agency has projected it will need $65 billion to take over failed banks through 2013.

But if the FDIC suddenly had to take over a giant bank such as Citigroup or Bank of America, the fund would be drained "in a flash," said Cornelius Hurley, director of the Boston University law school's Morin Center for Banking and Financial Law.

Last week, FDIC chairwoman Sheila Bair wrote to Senate Banking Committee chairman Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, that her agency could need more money because the existing fund "provides a thin margin of error" given the government's responsibility "to cover unforeseen losses." The March 5 letter, provided to the Globe, said the additional borrowing authority is necessary to "leave no doubt" that the FDIC can "fulfill the government's commitment to protect insured depositors against loss."

Bair said yesterday that the agency's failure to collect premiums from most banks "was surprising to me and of concern." As a Treasury Department official in 2001, she said, she testified on Capitol Hill about the need to impose the fees, but nothing happened. Congress did not grant the authority for the fees until 2006, just weeks before Bair took over the FDIC. She then used that authority to impose the fees over the objections of some within the banking industry.

"That is five years of very healthy good times in banking that could have been used to build up the reserve," Bair, a former professor at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, said in an interview. "That is how we find ourselves where we are today. An important lesson going forward is we need to be building up these funds in good times so you can draw down upon them in bad times."

Hurley agreed with Bair's analysis of the FDIC's dilemma. "Typically you would build up a reserve during the halcyon days to protect yourselves during a recession," he said, calling the decision to stop collecting most premiums "a political one" that was pushed by banks and not based on strict accounting principles.

But James Chessen, chief economist of the American Bankers Association, said that it made sense at the time to stop collecting most premiums because "the fund became so large that interest income on the fund was covering the premiums for almost a decade." There were relatively few bank failures and no projection of the current economic collapse, he said.

"Obviously hindsight is 20-20," Chessen said.

House Financial Services Committee chairman Barney Frank agreed that officials believed at the time that the good times would last and that bank failures would not be a problem.

"We had this period where we had no failures," the Massachusetts Democrat said in an interview yesterday. "The banks were saying, 'Don't charge us anything.' " [Wonder if this would work with my auto insurance. I haven't had to file a claim in years...]

Last October, to help restore confidence during the financial meltdown, Congress and then-President Bush agreed to raise the insured amount from $100,000 to $250,000 per depositor until Dec. 31, 2009. A small portion of the new fees on banks will go toward supporting that increase.

The FDIC has never failed to make good on its promise to pay for the insured deposits when a bank fails, and officials said that will not change. The fund ran short of money during the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s, prompting the agency to increase fees to make up for the shortfall.

Then, a booming economy left banks flush with cash, and by 1996 the insurance fund was considered so large that it could grow through interest payments and fees charged only to banks with high credit risk. Congress agreed that premiums didn't need to be collected if the fund was sustained at a level that was considered safe. Thus, about 95 percent of banks paid no premiums from 1996 to 2006, including some new ones that did not have to pay a premium, the FDIC said.

Congress mandates that the insurance fund must stay between 1.15 percent and 1.5 percent of all insured deposits. The reserve ratio on Dec. 31 was 0.40 percent, down from 1.22 percent at the end of 2007. The FDIC has increased premiums to increase the reserve ratio, as well as proposing a one-time emergency assessment that could raise as much as $15 billion.
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Postby rrapt » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:37 pm

James Chessen: "...no projection of the current economic collapse", he said.

I believe the man is saying that either everyone in the banking industry is stupid, or he is lying; plenty of folks knew but weren't talking, and they who talked were either ignored or rubbed out.
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Postby freemason9 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:43 pm

This thing ain't funny, folks, and bitching about the economic policies of a scrambling federal government doesn't help anyone. The Obama administration is doing the only thing possible to avoid a complete economic collapse. And he is right in doing so, because allowing it to happen is inconceivable; the fabric of modern society is unstable as it is, and you would surely be shocked at just how "uncomfortable" the world will become if this doesn't work.

Wish him luck, and don't bother preparing for the worst. There is no way to prepare for it.
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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Postby chiggerbit » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:02 pm

The Obama administration is doing the only thing possible to avoid a complete economic collapse.


But, see, this is where I disagree with you, fm. I think there are other options out there that might have cost the same amount of money but would have been way more effective. But this one Obama has chosen is the one that benefits the Goldman Sachs types. Obama has surrounded himself with has-beens and people who were in on it. Do you really trust them to do what needed to be done? I don't. The "too bigs" of the "too big to fail" were the problem. Propping them up is continuing to enable the unerlying problem. The people who put in protections back at the end of the Great Depression understood what the problems were, and continue to be today. "Too big" IS the problem.

Let's flag this and come back to this argument in two years.
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Postby smiths » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:19 am

sorry freemason9 but that is just rubbish,

i dont know how you can visit here everyday, read the things you do and then make a statement like that,

they could have put the banks straight into bankruptcy procedure,
they could announce a major change in the aggressive military strategy,
they could have embarked on a genuine green new deal program to help the environment and the people,
they could have encouraged local small banking and infrastructure programs at the expensive of giant conglomerates,

there are hundreds of things they could do differently,

but handing out taxpayer money to the scums that bankrupted america is not one of the things they HAVE to do
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Postby Brentos » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:43 pm

freemason9 wrote:This thing ain't funny, folks, and bitching about the economic policies of a scrambling federal government doesn't help anyone. The Obama administration is doing the only thing possible to avoid a complete economic collapse. And he is right in doing so, because allowing it to happen is inconceivable; the fabric of modern society is unstable as it is, and you would surely be shocked at just how "uncomfortable" the world will become if this doesn't work.

Wish him luck, and don't bother preparing for the worst. There is no way to prepare for it.


He sums it up better than me:

http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/ ... d_war.html

http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/ ... redux.html (pt2)

Worth a read.

I noticed from another thread that you think that 'CD'ers are 'nutters'. I'm not surprised based on your comments in this thread. I think you are the nutter in thinking that more refined bullshit (Obama) is more acceptable than hardsell bullshit (Bush). At least Bush was obvious.
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