Let's buy a bridge = A theory of RA in the United States.

[sunny]

ps. sorry I mis-attributed your thoughts, sunny. btw what are your overall thoughts on krebs. how do they fit with this larger picture and do you believe (I do) that JonBenet was killed in an RA event?

Not to worry.

I do indeed think JonBenet was killed in an RA event. I'd had an intuition for many years the poor child's death was the result of a deeply disturbing "organized" event, but I did not know from RA until I came here to RI. Project Willow made a comment very early on in the life of the forum in regards to JonBenet that put me on the road to discovering Krebs and her allegations. Here it is:

I believe Jonbenet was killed accidentally during a Christmas ritual. The Ramsey's were more than likely hosts, and when their daughter succumbed to the uses of a high ranking male in the cult, they had to scramble to figure out how to explain her death. Then it took them all night to figure it out and clean up the remnants of the night's festivities.

Just a hunch on my part, but it would fit.
PW

Everything Krebs said supports PW's theory. The "high ranking male" in the cult would be Fleet White Sr., whom Nancy's grandmother claimed "would get away with it, he always does". Very wealthy, former military man...

I just think her story is important in that she personalizes RA, and in a legal setting, though her allegations were dismissed and ridiculed.

For our struggle is not against human opponents, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I've been meaning to make that my sig line for quite a while. Thanks for reminding me, marmot.

[Stephen Morgan]

There's so much varied information I don't think a comprehensive timeline could be manufactured. As for whether it would be RA, MC, TBMC, government-backed MK, would it be possible to seperate these things? I don't see how. Where would John Wheaties, rapist and suffocator of young girls, who was killed at Minot AFB, come in? What about Mo Atta's stripper girlfriend who claimed the back rooms of the strip club were used to record politicians in compromising positions for blackmail purposes, and the same thing being done with little kids at Kincora and Bryn Alyn?

What about Colonia Dignidad, where does that fit in? Is it private, or does its service as a DINA/CIA torture chamber make it government? Is it paedophile, because it was founded by a paedophile priest on the run from the law, or Nazi because he had been in the SS, or government-MK because they pioneered new types of torture and brainwashed their members? Or paedophile again, because it was linked to all those paedos in the Chillean government and was brought down when local children started vanishing?

I don't even think you could split it into private and intelligence based groupings. No private kiddie-porn distributor would last long without protection. I also think it's wrong to imagine that this was all spawned by the intelligence agencies and private groups are derived from technology and techniques that have leaked out from in there. It's the other way around, the intelligence services were set up by elite deviants, most notably the CIA being set up by the likes of Wild Bill Donovan (who appears in James Shelby Downard's Carnivals of Life and Death) and the Dulles brothers had been operating long before they got the CIA name and authorisation. Donovan worked for big business interests and the Dulles brothers for the Nazis and what's now Chiquita. It's hardly realistic rto think a generational cult could come together in a few decades.

It was going on before the CIA was dreamt up, although the CIA became a useful container and funding channel for the more drug/tech based approaches.

Franklin and Finders are quite conclusively proven, but I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Dutroux/affaire Pinon/X-Dossiers/ballet roses/Brabant massacres affair.

[American Dream]

Stephen Morgan, I think you make a lot of important and thought-provoking points above. Thank You.

The one place where I have questions concerns James Shelby Downard. Isn't he kind of a front for Michael Hoffman the Turd, er I mean the 3rd?

[nathan28]

SM, that's a lot of fact points.

Stephen Morgan, I think you make a lot of important and thought-provoking points above. Thank You.

The one place where I have questions concerns James Shelby Downard. Isn't he kind of a front for Michael Hoffman the Turd, er I mean the 3rd?

OT, but Adam Gorightly spent a lot of time tracking down James Shelby Downard, and said while he initially thought Downard was a shared identity/literary hoax he found enough corroboration for Downard's actual existence that he thinks Downard really existed; Adam Parfey "swore up and down" that Downard was real. What is murkier is the extent to which pieces attributed to Downard are his. I get the impression that some certainly are, but others are almost surely Hoffman and co.

Are the Finders still around? IIRC their founder was in his mid sixties when the DC City Paper interviewed him. They sound like a personality cult run by an amoralist that moonlights for the CIA and likely anyone else (shades of the OTO thread also up right now).

[mulebone]

Anyone ever read The Highest Altar by Patrick Tierney?

Tierney was investigating contemporary human sacrifice in Peru & Bolivia. Tierney knew that narcotics gangs & very wealthy people were sacrificing poor folk on high Andean mountains using local yatiri in order to increase their wealth & prestige & to guarantee that their narcotics would ship unmolested. But he lacked hard evidence.

Oh, he had bodies galore, most showing signs of ritualistic damage, but no one there who witnessed these actual rituals would go on record (privately they admitted everything) because they were terrified of the yatiri, not to mention the rich folk & drug dealers. The local police dismissed everything outright, because the dead folk were poor, and sadly, no one gave a shit. (Surprising, eh?)

The problem was compounded because these rituals were obviously practiced in an unbroken, yet now clandestine, chain since before the time of the Incas.

Tierney found that Aymaras had always used, despite their outward Christianity, human sacrifice to appease the 'gods of the mountains." They called it "feeding the Earth."

The "elite" just tended to slaughter anyone they could lure to the killing site, while the Aymara tended to ritually prepare the victim.

Then there's Walter Burkett, who pointed out that blood, violence & sacrifice lurk at the heart of every religion. He even went so far as suggesting homo sapien be altered to homo necan, or "man, the killer."

I'm going on about human sacrifice because MPD by RA, if true, is just a form of human sacrifice, isn't it? You essentially sacrifice the victim's personality on a sexual altar rather than on one of stone.

Hiding evidence & compromising investigators doesn't seem like it would be that difficult if you have the monetary means, does it?

I also think that placing an S in front of the RA is probably mistaken. These practices pre-date Christianity. Humans have always used less than savory methods to guarantee the favor of the God's. Satanic Ritual Abuse is just the latest mask worn by that instinct.

Also, I think there is a correlation between Aymara sacrificial purposes & intelligence purposes.
The Aymara killed to gain new, more immediate, gods for their pantheon; the victims were essentially deified. Spooks, on the other hand, are looking to gain newer weapons for their "war," whatever way you care to define their "war,' and they essentially "deify" the RA victim into their "pantheon of spooks."

[lightningBugout]

It is NOT fucking "fun to watch the spooks come out". You can tell that shit to Doro222.

kidding, relax. who is doro222.

[lightningBugout]

stephen - lots and lots of interesting material you bring up. thanks.

to clarify - i certainly didn't suggest making any sort of comprehensive timeline of anything. but i don't see why the sheer volume of material should act as a deterrent to action of some sort.

IOW i would like to do something proactive. that was my impetus.

[nathan28]

There's so much varied information I don't think a comprehensive timeline could be manufactured. As for whether it would be RA, MC, TBMC, government-backed MK, would it be possible to seperate these things? I don't see how. Where would John Wheaties, rapist and suffocator of young girls, who was killed at Minot AFB, come in? What about Mo Atta's stripper girlfriend who claimed the back rooms of the strip club were used to record politicians in compromising positions for blackmail purposes, and the same thing being done with little kids at Kincora and Bryn Alyn?

What about Colonia Dignidad, where does that fit in? Is it private, or does its service as a DINA/CIA torture chamber make it government? Is it paedophile, because it was founded by a paedophile priest on the run from the law, or Nazi because he had been in the SS, or government-MK because they pioneered new types of torture and brainwashed their members? Or paedophile again, because it was linked to all those paedos in the Chillean government and was brought down when local children started vanishing?

I don't even think you could split it into private and intelligence based groupings. No private kiddie-porn distributor would last long without protection. I also think it's wrong to imagine that this was all spawned by the intelligence agencies and private groups are derived from technology and techniques that have leaked out from in there. It's the other way around, the intelligence services were set up by elite deviants, most notably the CIA being set up by the likes of Wild Bill Donovan (who appears in James Shelby Downard's Carnivals of Life and Death) and the Dulles brothers had been operating long before they got the CIA name and authorisation. Donovan worked for big business interests and the Dulles brothers for the Nazis and what's now Chiquita. It's hardly realistic rto think a generational cult could come together in a few decades.

It was going on before the CIA was dreamt up, although the CIA became a useful container and funding channel for the more drug/tech based approaches.

Franklin and Finders are quite conclusively proven, but I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Dutroux/affaire Pinon/X-Dossiers/ballet roses/Brabant massacres affair.

There was a massive thread about Dutroux somewhere here. I partly remember because someone made what some took as a half-hearted effort at crypto-apologism.

Stephen, that's a lot of information there and quite valueable. What's the source on that thing about Atta's girlfriend? That's one of the things about Hopsicker's work I find tenuous... she seemed a little too convenient.

[foistlastus]

The various events and cover ups in Jersey certainly correlate.

pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com/

has an article posted recently relating to information I have read here.

[blanc]

random comments:-
In quite a short time most of the protections for the human rights of an individual and the structures which underpiined democracy have collapsed. Whilst this has been going on RA has been chugging along in the background - presumably undermining any effective opposition which might have been made . The fact that the most appalling crimes reported by individual survivors could be swept away without investigation, with the co-operation in many cases of the general public who would rather believe the twaddle of FMS and satanic panic than ask the right questions, served as a testbed for this take over I suppose.
I spent some time trying to find links between perp groups in the uk, without coming up with anything definite, same places, same methods, but couldn't link the groups. One survivor was shown a plan of a pyramid structure of different levels by a 'friend' perpetrator, who showed where they were, and that they were moving up a level. Is it as organised as that, or was that balloney.
Oh yes Belgium, a watering place for arms deals, a connection with Africa too.Don't get Amerocentric because ra isn't.
RA is criminal, we have now the criminal take over of democratic institutions don't we?
Belief system - people believe what suits them, and pretend to believe if that serves.
Finally, killers need victims, but not the other way round.

[marmot]

Yes, blanc, I believe it's extremely well organized and controlled, yet for its hierarchical and compartmentalized nature most people within it (excluding those at the top of the 'pyramid') are clueless as to what they're really a part of.

[American Dream]

blanc wrote:

Oh yes Belgium, a watering place for arms deals, a connection with Africa too.Don't get Amerocentric because ra isn't.

I very much agree. I tend to focus on MK ties to intelligence agencies because that seems like the most strategically important place to focus. In the United States that sort of research is heavily, heavily focused on the CIA, with perhaps an added emphasis on the Nazi antecedents.

With Belgium though, we really arrive in Rigorous Intuition territory because the multi-generational RA cults and occult secret societies with which we should be concerned definitely have major roots into Europe. In that, there must be a deep power structure of which I know little, but without a doubt Belgium has a place on the map of occult Europe and deep power Europe.

The connection of Belgium to Africa, especially with regards to diamonds and weapons is intriguing in light of some of the child soldier armies that have been organized in Africa. Some of these organizations are functionally very, very similar to the worst of the RA cults. So maybe these kinds of groups have some kind of place in the network, though proving this incontrovertibly would be very, very difficult.

[marmot]

European researcher: Joel van der Reijden

Institute for the Study of Globalization and Covert Politics

http://www.isgp.eu/index.html

Good info there

[Penguin]

I guess its business as usual, if you take a snapshot of a few centuries in Europe..
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/leopold.html

Sorry for slight OT perhaps.. Just a snippet..

At the same time, Léopold continues to advocate his long-held belief that Belgium should become a colonial power. "I believe that the moment is come for us to extend our territories. I think that we must lose no time, under penalty of seeing the few remaining good positions seized upon by more enterprising nations than our own," he says in 1860.

In 1861 he advises the Belgians to "imitate your neighbours; extend beyond the sea whenever an opportunity is offered. You will there find precious outlets for your products, food for your commerce, ... and a still better position in the great European family."

1865 - Léopold assumes the throne following his father's death on 10 December, proclaiming that "all that I desire is to leave Belgium larger, stronger, and more beautiful." However, as a constitutional monarch, he has no power to decide government policy.

Over the next 20 years Léopold lobbies the Belgium Parliament to get a colony "in our turn." After various unsuccessful attempts he eventually resolves to establish his own, private colony, deciding that central Africa holds the greatest potential.

1874 - Meanwhile, with the backing of United States and British newspapers, Henry Morton Stanley begins an ambitious transcontinental expedition of Africa. Over three years he travels 11,000 km from the east coast to the headwaters of the Congo River and then down the river to the Atlantic.

1876 - Léopold sponsors an international geographical conference in Brussels where he proposes the establishment of an international benevolent committee for the "propagation of civilisation among the peoples of the Congo region by means of scientific exploration, legal trade and war against the 'Arabic' slave traders."

"To open to civilisation the only part of our globe which it has not yet penetrated, to pierce the darkness which hangs over entire peoples, is, I dare say, a crusade worthy of this century of progress," Léopold says at the conference.

1878 - Léopold sets up the Comité d'Études du Haut Congo (CEHC), an "international commercial, scientific and humanitarian committee", and commissions Henry Morton Stanley to further explore the Congo. However, Stanley's real mission will be to establish Belgian sovereignty along the river's south bank and monopoly control over the Congo rubber and ivory trade.

1882 - The CEHC is reorganised as the Association Internationale du Congo (AIC - International Association of the Congo), a single-shareholder development company wholly owned by Léopold, who now begins to push for the territory covered by Stanley's treaties to be recognised by the international community as a sovereign state.

1884 - In November 14 European nations (Austria-Hungary, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Great Britain, Holland, Italy, Norway, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden and Turkey) and the US meet at the Conference of Berlin, called to carve up central Africa among them.

1885 - The Conference of Berlin concludes in February. France is given 670,000 square kilometres on the north bank of the Congo (modern Congo-Brazzaville and the Central African Republic) and Portugal 910,000 square kilometres to the south (modern Angola).

After some deft manipulation, Léopold's claims to the remaining 2.3 million square kilometres on the south bank of the Congo are recognised and the État Indépendant du Congo (Congo Free State - CFS) is founded under his personal rule. Léopold is proclaimed "sovereign" of the new state on 29 May. Boma, a town on the Congo River about 80 km upstream from the Atlantic Ocean, is named as the capital.

Under the terms of the 'General Act of Berlin' Léopold promises to suppress the slave trade, "watch over the preservation" of the 20-30 million Congolese now subject to his rule and improve "their moral and material conditions of existence." He must also encourage missions and other philanthropic and scientific enterprises without any "restriction or impediment whatsoever" and guarantee free trade.

Over the next 23 years Léopold will amass a huge personal fortune by exploiting the Congo directly and by leasing concessions to private companies prepared to pay him 50% of their profits. The period will witness some of the worst atrocities ever committed on the African continent. However, Léopold will never visit the region, ruling instead by decree from Belgium.

marmot: This is the direct link to the full Dutroux story on that site you linked - http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_do ... affair.htm
In one html file..

"Beyond the Dutroux Affair
The reality of protected child abuse and snuff networks
the victim-witnesses | the investigators | the accused | the apparently assassinated

Warning: The information in this article is not suited for anyone below the age of 18, as it involves extreme sexual violence against children. A certain amount of normally-illegal visual evidence (it is censored) has been included."

http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_do ... ccused.htm
http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_do ... nesses.htm
http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_do ... gators.htm
http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_do ... ations.htm

[blanc]

I'm not sure if it is on the ispg site or not, but linked as one of the apparent roots of the dutroux affair was a club for returning colonials, which became a kind of sex club. This was part of my reason for mentioning Africa. Again, linked to Nihoul there was an Africa connection, being investigated by the belgian security services at the time. And lastly, mashed up in the doings and dealings of one of the companies used to make arms deals which seem to have had connections with iraq was a man thought to have been in the brit security services, whose exact provenance is not elucidated, but who spent time in Africa, and to whom the murder of Bull in Belgium is by some attributed. Allegedly to prevent him blowing the gaff on the aforementioned arms deals, which would have severley knocked the price of the impending sale of this company - (shareholders later bore the brunt of its collapse). The companies records were held by the DTI which was intent on destroying them - don't know if they have yet. Its all a kind of pre-cursor and parallel to the el yamamah model, yet another uninvestigated criminal conspiracy involving govts in some measure, and protected by them. The first company referred to above was initially fished by the american security services, so I think we can shake hands across the ocean here.