Air France flight missing over Atlantic

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Postby beeline » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:27 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane

Brazil flies bodies to mainland; Pitot tubes eyed

By MARCO SIBAJA and GREG KELLER, Associated Press Writer Marco Sibaja And Greg Keller, Associated Press Writer – 7 mins ago
RECIFE, Brazil – Brazilian helicopters began ferrying bodies of Air France crash victims to shore for identification Tuesday while a pilots' union said the airline was rapidly replacing speed sensors like those suspected of feeding false information to doomed jet's computers.

Soldiers and medical personnel in surgical gowns carried body bags on stretchers off of helicopters that flew the first recovered bodies from ships at sea to the island of Fernando de Noronha on Tuesday. Officials said they would then be taken by plane to the northeastern coastal city of Recife, where experts will try to identify them.

Brazilian officials said searchers had found 24 bodies by Tuesday morning.

Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board, said that identifying the bodies, knowing where people were sitting and studying their injuries could give clues to causes of the May 31 crash that killed 228 people.

With the plane's data recorders still apparently deep in the ocean, investigators have been focusing on the possibility that external speed monitors — called Pitot tubes — iced over and gave dangerously false readings to the plane's computers in a thunderstorm.

The L-shaped metal Pitot tubes jut from the wing or fuselage of a plane, and are heated to prevent icing. The pressure of air entering the tubes lets sensors measure the speed and angle of flight. A malfunctioning Pitot tube could mislead computer controlling the plane to accelerate or decelerate in a potentially dangerous fashion.

Air France said it began replacing the Pitot tubes on the Airbus A330 model on April 27 after an improved version became available, and said it will finish the work in the "coming weeks."

The monitors had not yet been replaced on the plane that crashed while on a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

Eric Derivry, a spokesman for the SNPL union, the main union for Air France pilots, told France-Info radio that all jets taking off on Tuesday would be equipped with two of the new Pitot sensors.

A memo sent to Air France pilots by the Alter union Monday and obtained by The Associated Press urges them to refuse to fly unless at least two of the three Pitot sensors on each planes have been replaced.

An official with the Alter union said there is a "strong presumption" among its pilot members that a Pitot problem precipitated the crash. The memo says the airline should have grounded all A330 and A340 jets pending the replacement, and warns of a "real risk of loss of control" due to Pitot problems.

At an industry conference in Kuala Lumpur, Emirates Airlines President Tim Clark said the Dubai-based company's 29 A330-200 planes have been flying since 1998 "and there is absolutely no reason why there should be any question over this plane. It is one of the best flying today," he said.

In a video posted Monday on a Web site, Brazil's air force revealed that search crews had recovered the vertical stabilizer from the tail section of Flight 447 — which also could provide key clues as to why the airliner went down in the Atlantic and where best to search for the black boxes.

The tail section includes the vertical stabilizer — which keeps the plane's nose from swinging back and forth — and the rudder, which controls the side-to-side motion. The data and voice recorders are also located in the fuselage near the tail.

William Waldock, who teaches air crash investigation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Arizona, said the damage he saw looks like a lateral fracture.

"That would reinforce the idea that the plane broke up in flight," he said. "If it hits intact, everything shatters in tiny pieces."

Goelz said the faulty airspeed readings and the fact the vertical stabilizer was sheared from the jet could be related.

The Airbus A330-200 has a "rudder limiter" which constricts how much the rudder can move at high speeds. If it were to move too far while traveling fast, it could shear off and take the vertical stabilizer with it.

"If you had a wrong speed being fed to the computer by the Pitot tube, it might allow the rudder to over travel," Goelz said.

Asked if the rudder or stabilizer being sheared off could have brought the jet down, Goelz said: "Absolutely. You need a rudder. And you need the (rudder) limiter on there to make sure the rudder doesn't get torn off or cause havoc with the plane's aerodynamics."

The discoveries of debris and the bodies also are helping searchers narrow their hunt for the cockpit voice and flight data recorders, commonly known as the "black boxes," perhaps investigators' best hope of learning what happened to the flight.

The wreckage and the bodies were found roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha islands off Brazil's northern coast, and about 45 miles (70 kilometers) from where the jet was last heard from.

Searchers must move quickly to find the recorders because acoustic beacons, or "pingers" on the boxes begin to fade 30 days after crashes.

Some high-tech help is on the way for investigators: two U.S. Navy devices capable of picking up the pingers to a depth of 20,000 feet (6,100 meters).

The listening devices are 5 feet (1.5 meters) long and weigh 70 pounds (32 kilos). One will be towed by a Brazilian ship, the other by a French vessel, slowly trawling in a grid pattern across the search area. The devices will be dropped into the ocean near the debris field by Thursday, Berges said.

The French nuclear attack submarine Emeraude, arriving later this week, also will try to find the acoustic pings, military spokesman Christophe Prazuck said.

France's defense minister and the Pentagon have said there were no signs that terrorism was involved in the crash.

David Epstein, Qantas Airways General Manager for Government and Corporate Affairs, said two companies manufacture the Pitot monitors for the A330 planes — France's Thales Group and Charlotte, North Carolina-based Goodrich Corp.

The Air France plane uses sensors made by Thales while Qantas uses those by Goodrich for its 28 A330 planes, he said.
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Postby Sweejak » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:46 pm

Meteorite Striking Jets: Some Probabilities

http://emsnews.wordpress.com/2009/06/08 ... abilities/
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Postby StarmanSkye » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:46 pm

Curious coincidence, but one of my earliest speculations about the flight was its being struck by a meteor -- don't recall now if that was before or after the witness report of a fiery glow seen that lasted for about 6 seconds in the area of the flight. I don't suppose we'll EVER find comprehensive proof IF such a thing occurred. A 1-in-10 chance makes it a VERY possible event given the large numbers of both meteorites and airline hour/miles.

Re: a possible bombing: I'd suppose even IF the plane was brought down by a bomb and this is discovered, that such a thing would NOT be acknowledged publicly, at least if the officials had their way -- too 'ackward' to admit airplane bombings can't be 100 % prevented, a hazard to the airline market-share. But too, I'm puzzled why the crew flew INTO the storm with violent horizontal up-and-down draft windshear reading 100 mph.
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Postby nomo » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:34 pm

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... 6215300405

Terror Names Linked To Doomed Flight AF 447

3:58pm UK, Wednesday June 10, 2009
Peter Allen, in Paris

Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on the Air France flight which crashed with the loss of 228 lives, it has emerged.

French secret servicemen established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the doomed Airbus in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on May 31.

Flight AF 447 crashed in the mid-Atlantic en route to Paris during a violent storm.

While it is certain there were computer malfunctions, terrorism has not been ruled out.

Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), the French equivalent of MI6, were dispatched to Brazil.

It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly-classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.

A source working for the French security services told Paris weekly L'Express that the link was "highly significant".

Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.

There is a possibility the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence", the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously".

France has received numerous threats from Islamic terrorist groups in recent months, especially since French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan.

Security chiefs have been particularly worried about airborne suicide attacks similar to the ones on the US on September 11, 2001.
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Postby lupercal » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:53 am

nomo wrote:It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly-classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.


bwahaha. Two top investigators into illegal weapon trading bite the dust and we're supposed to believe it was Khalid Sheikh McShoebomber.

Oh it hurts, it hurts. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby tazmic » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:23 am

...highly-classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic


Too classified to be on a no-fly list? :roll:
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Postby nomo » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:46 pm

I thought the no-fly list was an American obsession.
:?
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Postby Penguin » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:33 pm

nomo wrote:I thought the no-fly list was an American obsession.
:?


They use the same list in Europe, if the flight passes over or lands at any US territory..

And I think they have all kinds of lists of their own. Interpol, Europol, and all the member nations secret state police bureaus, all got to have something to do..

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Preven ... 5244345498

Preventing terrorism takes growing share in Security Police spending
SUPO marks 60th anniversary

The Finnish Security Police SUPO spent more money on preventing terrorism last year than ever before. SUPO spent 31 per cent of its 2008 budget on fighting terrorism, up from 28 per cent in 2007.

Counter-espionage continues to take the largest percentage of SUPO’s budget. Last year, it took slightly over one third of all SUPO spending, down significantly from 44 per cent in 2007.

The figures come out in last year’s review, which SUPO made public in connection with Friday’s celebration of the organisation’s 60th anniversary.

Although SUPO focuses on terrorism, the threat that it poses remains small in Finland. SUPO chief Ilkka Salmi does not see much of a threat of acts of terror against key power structures in Finland.

The focus of SUPO interest in terror has been on the activities of hard-line Islamists. To repel the threat, SUPO has sought new cooperative partners in North Africa and the Middle East.

According to SUPO, there are strong indications that groups involved in conflicts in the Muslim world are getting support from Finland. SUPO says that officials are monitoring possible support networks.

SUPO resources have grown evenly in recent years. Whereas just under 190 people worked for SUPO at the beginning of the decade, personnel now numbers 220. This year’s budget is EUR 16 million.


Yeah, wtf. Who can tell how many islamic terror strikes there have been in Finland? Its funny how these kinds of things catch on...
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Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:53 pm

http://www.sundayherald.com/internation ... 85.0.0.php

Key figures in global battle against illegal arms trade lost in Air France crash
ARGENTINA: Argentine campaigner Pablo Dreyfus and Swiss colleague Ronald Dreyer battled South American arms and drug trafficking
From Andrew McLeod
AMID THE media frenzy and speculation over the disappearance of Air France's ill-fated Flight 447, the loss of two of the world's most prominent figures in the war on the illegal arms trade and international drug trafficking has been virtually overlooked.

Pablo Dreyfus, a 39-year-old Argentine who was travelling with his wife Ana Carolina Rodrigues aboard the doomed flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, had worked tirelessly with the Brazilian authorities to stem the flow of arms and ammunition that for years has fuelled the bloody turf wars waged by drug gangs in Rio's sprawling favelas.

Also travelling with Dreyfus on the doomed flight was his friend and colleague Ronald Dreyer, a Swiss diplomat and co-ordinator of the Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence who had worked with UN missions in El Salvador, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Kosovo and Angola. Both men were consultants at the Small Arms Survey, an independent think tank based at Geneva's Graduate Institute of International Studies. The Survey said on its website that Dryer had helped mobilise the support of more than 100 countries to the cause of disarmament and development.

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Buenos Aires-born Dreyfus had been living in Rio since 2002, where he and his sociologist wife worked with the Brazilian NGO Viva Rio.

"Pablo will be remembered as a gentle and sensitive man with an upbeat sense of humour," said the Small Arms Survey. "He displayed an intellectual curiosity and a determined work ethic that excited and enthused all who worked with him."

According to the International Action Network on Small Arms Control (IANSA), Dreyfus's work was instrumental in the introduction of landmark small arms legislation in Brazil in 2003. Under this legislation, an online link was created between army and police databases listing production, imports and exports of arms and ammunition in Brazil.

Dreyfus was an advocate of the stringent labelling of ammunition by weapons firms, arguing that by clearly identifying ammunition not only by its producer but also its purchaser, the likelihood of weapons being sourced by criminals from corrupt police or armed forces personnel is greatly reduced.

Though a Brazilian referendum on the right to bear arms was rejected in 2005, Viva Rio says the campaign should be considered a success because half a million weapons were voluntarily handed in to the authorities. Anti-gun activists put the referendum defeat down to fears criminals would circumvent the law and continue to gain access to small arms the usual way - through Paraguay and other bordering countries. This was not an irrational fear: until 2004, when Paraguay bowed to Brazilian pressure, even foreign tourists were allowed to purchase small arms simply by presenting a photocopy of their identity card. Dreyfus knew that many of the weapons from the so-called tri-border area between Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina were reaching Rio drug gangs.

When unidentified gunmen made off with a stash of hand grenades from an Argentine military garrison in 2006, Dreyfus deplored what he said was lax security at military depots across the world. "If a supermarket can keep control of the amount of peas it has in stock, surely a military organisation could and should be able to do the same with equal if not greater efficiency with its weapons," he said. "The key words are logisitics, control, security."

When Rio agents smashed a cell of drug traffickers who had sourced their weapons from the tri-border area, Dreyfus noted its leaders were prominent businessmen living in apartments in the plush Rio suburbs of Ipanema and São Corrado, "not in the favelas".

In a recent report posted on the Brazilian website Comunidade Segura (Safe Community), Dreyfus noted that the Brazilian arms firm CBC (Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos) had become one of the world's biggest ammunition producers by purchasing Germany's Metallwerk Elisenhutte Nassau (MEN) in 2007, and Sellier & Bellot (S&B) of the Czech Republic in March. This would not be particularly noteworthy but for the fact that CBC's exports had tapered off in recent years due to legislation restricting exports to Paraguay, arms that often found their way back into Brazil and on to the Rio drug gangs - the "boomerang effect", as Dreyfus called it. "The commercial export of weapons and ammunition from Brazil to the bordering countries stopped in 2001," wrote Dreyfus. "CBC lost commercial markets in Latin America, but Brazil won in public security."

However, manufacturers from other countries had moved in to fill the void, and before its purchase by CBC, S&B was already "one of the marks most currently apprehended" by Brazilian police. Dreyfus said that, in view of the fact the Czech Republic was bound by the EU Code of Conduct on weapons exports - which states that EU countries must "evaluate the existence of the risk that the armament can be diverted to undesirable final destinations", CBC should "consider the risk that some of these exports end up, via diversions, feeding violence in Brazil".

Though his focus was on Latin America, Dreyfus also advised the government of Mozambique and at the time of his death was preparing to do the same for the government of Angola, where stockpiles of weapons left over from the civil war continue to pose a security problem.

Dreyfus and Dreyer were on their way to Geneva to present the latest edition of the Small Arms Survey handbook, of which Dreyfus was a joint editor. It was to have been their latest step in their relentless fight against evil.
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Postby nomo » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:23 pm

Not to diminish the death of anybody on that plane, but statistically, when a plane with 200 or more passengers crashes, chances are that it had on board one or more persons highly valued in their field of expertise. That doesn't necessarily mean that their presence was the reason for the accident. Sometimes an accident is just that: an accident.
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Postby smiths » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:36 pm

An Italian woman who arrived late for for the Air France flight that crashed in the Atlantic has been killed in a car accident.

Johanna Ganthaler had been on holiday in Brazil with her husband and missed Air France Flight 447 after turning up late at Rio de Janeiro airport on May 31, The Times online has reported.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/woman-wh ... -c5l9.html
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Postby Sweejak » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:29 pm

14-year-old hit by 30,000 mph space meteorite
Gerrit Blank, 14, was on his way to school when he saw "ball of light" heading straight towards him from the sky.
A red hot, pea-sized piece of rock then hit his hand before bouncing off and causing a foot wide crater in the ground

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandte ... orite.html
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Postby StarmanSkye » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:31 pm

14-year-old hit by 30,000 mph space meteorite


That's incredible -- How come the pea-sized pepple traveling at some 41.6 thousand feet per second didn't simply blow the lad's hand off or burn/bore a hole thru it, instead of 'bouncing' it? That must have been a huge amount of kinetic energy. If it was 20 times faster than a rifle bullet, then the energy is squared, isn't it? ie, 400 times greater (assuming equal rest mass, which may be close for a pebble). I can't imagine even a relatively light bullet traveling at 'only' 2000 ft/second just lightly slapping a hand away. Isn't it more likely the meteorite's velocity had been radically reduced as its mass vaporized, so it was traveling at no more than a few hundred feet per second, with perhaps only a few grams weight? So the kinetic energy would have been roughly equivalent to a tossed tennis ball?

******
And the passenger who 'missed' the ill-fated flight, only to die in a car accident: Jeez, when yer number's up, it's UP, eH? Cripes...
(;
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Postby Sweejak » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:42 am

I'm guessing it had to be a glancing blow, maybe it didn't even actually hit his hand, and as for bouncing, gee I don't think so. I'm having a hard time conceiving of anything moving that fast bouncing off of anything. I'd expect burns too. I'm beginning to doubt this story.
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Postby smiths » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:43 am

Doomed Air France jet 'crashed suddenly'
June 14, 2009 - 9:07AM

Debris recovered so far from Air France flight 447 seems to indicate the jet plunged suddenly into the Atlantic Ocean and did not explode in the sky, Brazilian experts say.

Almost two weeks after the Rio-Paris flight disappeared at sea, former pilot Ari Germano told O Globo newspaper today that he was "struck" by at least one of the photographs released on Friday by the Brazilian Air Force.

According to Germano, who has written a book about air crashes, the images suggested that the Airbus A330 passengers were caught by surprise and the tragedy unfolded so rapidly that the crew did not have the time to react.

In the photographs, the seats in the crew area were folded with the seatbelts hanging down, which "suggests that the crew was moving about the passenger cabin. If there had been an alert or a warning about a pending risk, the crew would have been seated," he said.

"They did not have the time to do anything," added the former pilot, who also recognised an orange first aid kit that was left intact.

Dozens of pieces of debris recovered by the Brazilian Navy have been brought to an airport hangar in the northeastern city of Recife.

A French navy ship on Friday recovered six more bodies, bringing to 50 the number of bodies found in the wake of the crash of the plane, which went down over the ocean on the night from May 31 to June 1 with 228 people on board.

Captain Ronaldo Jenkins, a security consultant with the National Union of Air Carriers (SNEA), told Globo that he had identified a safety vest and part of the plane's internal covering, which showed no trace of fire or smoke, suggesting no explosion.

"On the photographs published in recent days, where we can see debris from the plane floating in the water and a restroom door, there were also no signs of fire," he added.

AFP


http://www.theage.com.au/world/doomed-a ... -c6zl.html
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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