Jani's at the mercy of her mind

[agitprop]

If I sound condescending its because I find the naturalization of consumerist gender identity to be so distasteful.

Wow...just...wow. But thanks about the smart and reasonable statement. That's a nice compliment.

Yes, this is my general take on most forms of socio-political epidemiology which conclude that "boys will be boys."

Perhaps it somehow did not read correctly, to you, that I was observing that my distaste for something I had perceived might be negatively raising the tenor of my tone.

I see nothing about the line you've quoted that, by any stretch of the imagination, results in a "wow, just wow" response.

Truly.

Genuinely.

Please do enlighten me.

I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to understand just "what...just....what" is so startling to you.

Well, I don't want to throw the thread, but that statement is just such a mouthful. It reminds me of a time I was at a party, years ago and a guy propositioned me. I hit him with a "What? Join you in the ruthless arithmetic of genetic survival?" His jaw nearly hit the floor. I think I got it from "The Naked Ape", and was just waiting to spring it on someone who deserved it.

What is socio-political epidemiology? I've never heard that one before.

[chiggerbit]

Wow. Why are you so afraid of this Mac person?

Agiprop, I don't think c2w was talking that way because she was afraid of Mac.


Before I leave this thread, I want to dump something here that I was working on before. The reason I was quoting these points is that I've seen kids with these behaviors before, only I can't remember that any of them were ever diagnosed as schizophrenic. Not that that means that Janni is or isn't schizophrenic, just that, as others have mentioned in earlier pages, the situaion with Janni is likely very complex. Some kids would be easy for almost anybody to parent, most kids are not especially easy to parent but their parens muddle through ok, regardless, and some kids would be very difficult to parent and, unfortunately, too many of these are born to parents who do not have the skills to do a difficult job.

Quote:
She locks her fingers in front of her chest and flexes her wrists furiously, a tic that surfaces when she's anxious....


Quote:

Born Aug. 8, 2002, Jani was different from the start, sleeping fitfully for only about four hours a day. Most infants sleep 14 to 16 hours a day. Only constant, high-energy stimulation kept Jani from screaming....


Quote:
"It was impossible to overstimulate her. We would leave at 8 in the morning and be gone for 14 hours. We could not come home until Jani had been worn out enough so that she would sleep a couple of hours....



Quote:

July 8, 2008: Claps hands, hops (tic-like)...

I was headed in this direcion before I got derailed by Mac's toxic comments. My own experiences wih these behaviors is too old to be of relevance today, but these therapies were starting to show up, if I remember right, towards the end of my work with some of these kids. I have no clue whether these services would be helpful to this family or not, or even if this "science" is credible, but it kind of makes sense, and I wanted to throw it out there.

http://aspiringdad.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... -about-it/


Rats, not the link I wanted. I'll try to find it.

Well, here's a link to an insurance company, which reports the negaive aspects of the effeciveness of sensory integraion therapy. What else would you expect? But, imporant o know all sides of the issue. Sill looking for he original.

http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/200_299/0256.html

[lightningBugout]

I see.

I would interpret socio-political epidemiology to be a form of epidemiology dealing with social as well as political variables. In other words, not so much biology.

Tagging the sort of studies that, I assumed, you were referring to as such was a rhetorical attempt to say that such studies cannot, by their very makeup say anything valid about biology because gender is a real loose concept determined by social and political variables. That has been true in most societies (ie consider eunuchs, hermaphrodites, castratos, transsexuals, transvestites, etc)

What, for example, does a hermaphroditic child (a gender which is increasingly common due to environmental pthalate pollution) prefer? a gun-doll? a doll-gun? or guns and dolls in equal proportion at different times dependent on their given ratio of male:female composition?

Or are they just freaks?

Forgive me for the silly base Foucault thing, but, you know, gender is very very poorly constructed in the types of studies I have seen.

[agitprop]

Chiggerbit, I think it's clear the poster feels intimidated, and this is NOT right.

Compared to What:
"i'm just too fearful of further alienating and antagonizing mac to have said so before now, let alone to explain what i was trying to say when i posted earlier in light of any of the forgoing. as i still am wrt explanation of views expressed earlier."

I agree with all comments you made about Jani. The treatment could be all wrong, but if she was born with a psychosis, autism, mania, ocd,or some weird combination of above the severe judgement of the parents is unwarranted, extreme and apparently based more on emotion and ideology than reasoned judgement.

I have schizophrenia and autism in my immediate and extended family and some of Jani's behaviour looks pretty familiar to me. The hand clapping, particularly. Anti psychotics can cause tardive dyskinesia, but it has a different appearance--more tremulous. She doesn't appear to be purely schizophrenic by any stretch, but mentally, neurologically abnormal?...Likely.

[agitprop]

I see.

I would interpret socio-political epidemiology to be a form of epidemiology dealing with social as well as political variables. In other words, not so much biology.

Tagging the sort of studies that, I assumed, you were referring to as such was a rhetorical attempt to say that such studies cannot, by their very makeup say anything valid about biology because gender is a real loose concept determined by social and political variables. That has been true in most societies (ie consider eunuchs, hermaphrodites, castratos, transsexuals, transvestites, etc)

What, for example, does a hermaphroditic child (a gender which is increasingly common due to environmental pthalate pollution) prefer? a gun-doll? a doll-gun? or guns and dolls in equal proportion at different times dependent on their given ratio of male:female composition?

Or are they just freaks?

Forgive me for the silly base Foucault thing, but, you know, gender is very very poorly constructed in the types of studies I have seen.

So you're saying studies of gender issues are skewed by the cultural-political social environment. Granted. I don't know why this would be less so today than a generation or two ago.

[chiggerbit]

Chiggerbit, I think it's clear the poster feels intimidated, and this is NOT right.

Oh, ok, I see now. he fon was oo small for me o read.

[lightningBugout]

So you're saying studies of gender issues are skewed by the cultural-political social environment. Granted. I don't know why this would be less so today than a generation or two ago.

I'm trying to say that it is far closer to true that a given child is a blank slate upon which most gender is written, but then that is likely to provoke a conversation I don't feel like having.

I am mostly saying there are few instances of "basic sex difference(s)" in so far as they pertain to different sorts of toys or propensity to aggression, etc.

In general we don't even recognize that M/F is not the simplistic binary that most people take as common sense. Without that recognition as a baseline, I find most such studies next to meaningless.

[chiggerbit]

Ok, still not the link I meant regarding sensory inegraion, but interesting:

http://www.bbbautism.com/sensory_integration.htm

"....One special area of concern is oral tactile dysfunction. For years, parents have told their physicians that their children with PDDs had strange, limited food preferences. Many prefer bland, textureless foods, and self-select from only a few favorites: peanut butter, white bread, and applesauce only, for example. Although sometimes food preferences may have their roots in allergy issues (some allergists say that the foods we crave tend to be the very ones we are allergic to), if texture appears to be the primary issue, the problem is more likely to be oral defensiveness. OTs can work to desensitize the nerves in the mouth, helping these children to gradually tolerate more textures and broaden their diet.,,,,"

[MacCruiskeen]

That's Entertainment.

Well, I hope you're all having a good time here, because that's clearly the main thing, apart from nor being judgmental about agitprop, who has anecdotes to relate. (Like, how cool is that?)

The last few pages of this thread have been just absolutely fucking incredible, and incredibly instructive. Behold the revolutionary Internet, spawned in America the Beautiful.

When you're finished chatting, let me me know when the psychotic brat January Schofield finally dies, and then make an incredibly inspiring show of regretting it. That's Entertainment.Weep telegenically, while taking very good care not to blame the parents. Nobody decent is ever judgmental. And that's what makes America truly great.

Where was I... Ah yes, what's on TV? That Jon Stewart is like totally subversive...

How's the weather? Clouds gathering?

Sleep badly.

Badnight.

[mentalgongfu2]

Mac, I've never got into a fight with you before and I'm not trying to start one now, but FWIW: Quit being an asshole.

[justdrew]

there is nearly, nearly nothing we can do, in America or anywhere else for that matter. If as we suspect this treatment and situation is abusive, it's culturally condoned, and that is a hard thing to go against, especially when it involves a parent/child relationship. Getting all the authorities to take an alternate perspective will be difficult, as they will surely refuse to speak with anyone other than the child and the parents. There is a question of the father violating the child's privacy, I don't know what case law applies on families publicizing their childrens illnesses, normally that info would be kept private. I mean, what happens when she grows up and is fine, and all these blogs document her troubles for classmates in highschool to read? (it could happen)

[MacCruiskeen]

Oh sorry, mentalgongfu, I'm being an asshole. I forgot this was a chatroom.

So, seen any good movies lately? That A Beautiful Mind is like totally inspiring. It moved me to tears. Psychotics are kinda scary, but what ya gonna do?!? And that Russell Crowe is sooooo cute!! He made me wanna hug him!!! But still, kinda creepy, the whole thing. I'm more of a romcom kind of a gal, to be honest...

Are you married? I'm a progressive. I think Jon Stewart is like totally kewl. And that Michael Schofield is like just incredibly brave and inspiring!!! I just saw him on Oprah!!!! He gave his life for his little girl, that's what he said at her funeral. It made me cry.

Do you have children?

[agitprop]

So, tell us a bit about yourself, Maccruiseken

[chiggerbit]

there is nearly, nearly nothing we can do, in America or anywhere else for that matter. If as we suspect this treatment and situation is abusive, it's culturally condoned, and that is a hard thing to go against, especially when it involves a parent/child relationship. Getting all the authorities to take an alternate perspective will be difficult, as they will surely refuse to speak with anyone other than the child and the parents. There is a question of the father violating the child's privacy, I don't know what case law applies on families publicizing their childrens illnesses, normally that info would be kept private. I mean, what happens when she grows up and is fine, and all these blogs document her troubles for classmates in highschool to read? (it could happen)

Janni's privacy is the least of her worries, even though boundary violaions are something that make me personally uncomfortable. Her privacy, with regards to her father's blogging, is not an issue, child protection-wise. I know counties which wouldn't even consider temporary out-of-home-placements unless there was a least a broken bone. At least! And it isn't just what the culture accepts, it's also the hoops the courts require social services to jump through.

[compared2what?]

i'm just too fearful of further alienating and antagonizing mac to have said so before now, let alone to explain what i was trying to say when i posted earlier in light of any of the forgoing. as i still am wrt explanation of views expressed earlier.

and that's entirely due to my limitations, not his or anyone else's. which are (obviously) entirely my responsibility and not his. or anyone else's. the topic just happens to touch upon areas that are close enough to my own narcissistic wounds that I'm irrationally and disproportionately fearful of provoking a hostile response that i know perfectly well isn't, in objective terms, a great enough threat to justify my cowardice. in short: i'm a great big oversensitive baby, and that's nothing to fucking boast about.

in any event. i do understand that the topic is jani, not me. and that's the topic wrt which i want to contribute whatever i've got to give that might be of any potential use to anyone. if i can. so basically, this post isn't a whole lot more than a statement to that effect; an advance apology for all the many ways I'm sure I'll fuck up if i ever do manage to stop being such a pussy; and -- most importantly -- an expression of agreement with and support for mac's position, in the event that i don't.

sincerely, albeit unbecomingly trepidatiously,

c2w

Wow. Why are you so afraid of this Mac person? It's just an anonymous forum. Speak your heart and if you disagree with something, just say it without insulting the person you are opposing If that person insults you for offering a differing point of view, they are simply revealing themselves as boorish. It's plain for anyone to see. The treatment I'm getting from this person says far more about them than me. I'm simply remaining as calm as I can and letting them beat the hell out of themselves in mental ju jitsu. It's their choice.

As I said, my fears are related to personal issues unconnected to Mac, whom I like and respect, and therefore whose anguish I don't want inadvertently to increase. Which was part of what I was trying to indicate, along with a pretty straightforward expression of my humble desire to contribute something positive to the discourse without stepping into the line of his fire on a front for which I simply don't have any very robust defenses. Because, who knows? If it turns out that he doesn't mind just limiting himself to shooting at my feet and commanding me to dance or something similarly restrained, then everyone's a winner!

It never hurts to ask, basically.

Plus, as I said, I agree with him and wanted to say so. Particularly because I'm with lbo, in that I don't see how flaming Mac is of any value whatsoever. But enough about me. I actually have a question wrt the topic.

Do any of you West-Coasters know anyone in (or anything about) whatever the Child Welfare Services agency is called out there? Because...Well. I have no faith in the system here at all. And I wouldn't entrust a dust-mite to its care unless that dust-mite had an actively involved legal guardian who cared about the dust-mite, understood its needs, and knew how to negotiate a bureaucracy well enough to see that they were met.

However. If what's at stake is the welfare of a child who's at risk in her home, and there's a competent, caring adult available to locate, hook up with and oversee the best of the considerable resources that upper management has probably done its best to conceal in some obscure nook, cranny or corner of the system, then that part of it might actually both save the child's life and do what it can to make sure that it was well worth saving. Oddly enough. Because the exact same system is useless at best and deadly at worst for the vast majority of the people it's supposed to serve.

Also. About that hitting. Isn't there a mandatory-reporting requirement for child abuse? There is here. And it applies to civilians, not just doctors, in some circumstances. But I'm almost positve that there's something like that at least for doctors, wherever they are. Which would kind of raise some questions about who's obligated to do what wrt Jani's caregivers. I'm gonna go to see if I can figure out about it. Maybe Mac actually can turn her psychiatrist in to the authorities. You never know.

In any event. You all in the Los Angeles area: I only have the first (and in some cases second) clue about where to look and who to call for city services in this town, on this coast. I don't know anything about how stuff works way out there, or even if there are any concealed resources to uncover. Does anybody else?