Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff
... Hey, will you pretty please tell John Schroder for me that he's put together a truly superb thread on the Honduras coup - none better on the web that i've seen - and that I thank him sincerely and profusely for the terrific, important, and timely information?
You guys are doing a great service there... and may the oppressed everywhere finally lose their inexplicable patience and their willingness to acquiesce to un-justice!
"But as his presidency progressed, Zelaya veered to the left and was in constant conflict with business groups, lawmakers from his own party, the news media and the army."Over the last year, Zelaya's positions moved to the left. He pushed social programs and more attention for the poor who have no work," said Giuseppe Magno, the outgoing Italian ambassador. "This switch was not in line with the program he was voted in on. He was too close to Ortega and Chávez, a position the middle and upper classes did not appreciate."" And who is more qualified than the ambassador of fascist government in Italy to comment on Honduran affairs?
"GABRIEL Ciro Noriega, a journalist from San Juan Pueblo, was killed on Friday night after leaving a television program, according to Andrés Pavón Murillo, president of the Human Rights Defense Committee in Honduras. He added that thugs strafed the Radio Sonaguera broadcasting station in La Ceiba, Solaya municipality, Colón department, with machine guns and that another journalist, whose last name is Montero, received serious bullet wounds. When he was taken to hospital the hired killers followed to try and finish him off, but he was removed elsewhere in time for his protection. His state of health is unknown. Pavón also detailed the human rights situation in the country since President Manuel Zelaya was deposed on June 28. He said that more than 400 people had been detained, some have been released and others held and charged with sedition and material damage.""
"At least one person died and three received bullet wounds in clashes at the Honduran capital's airport ahead of the expected arrival of ousted President Manuel Zelaya, a cameraman on the scene said Sunday." Where is CNN on this story and where is the showy (and shallow) correspondent, C Amanpour?
"Internally split, Hondurans have taken to the streets both in support of Zelaya and in opposition to his return." Oh, they admit that there is a split. Because if you read the New York Times, you get the impression that there are opponents of Zelaya and then there are who are opponents of both sides (see the op-ed piece in NYT today).
"Those critics point, for example, to the American deliberations over whether Mr. Zelaya’s ouster meets the legal definition of a coup, a decision that would set off an automatic suspension of aid from the United States. A senior administration official said that, for now, most aid to Honduras was “on pause.” While all of the countries in the European Union and most of the nations in the hemisphere have recalled their ambassadors from Tegucigalpa, the Honduran capital, the United States has kept its envoy in place, saying it wanted to keep open channels of communication with Honduran civil society."
AMY GOODMAN: John, talk about the contrast between the media coverage of the Iranian elections and the Honduran coup, and the response to it on the ground.
JOHN PILGER: Well, you know, you take the New York Times. The New York Times basically has said, in so many words, that the Iranian protests represent a mass movement, embracing the majority in the country. Now there is no doubt that among the people protesting, the many people protesting in the streets of Iran, are those who want another Iran, those who want greater freedoms, we have heard from that in the past, but without any smoking gun, without any credible information, without any evidence that that election in Iran was rigged. Rigged to get rid of something like 10 million votes. I mean, I don’t think anyone does in an election like in Iran or in the United States, there is a fraud. In most elections, there are. They may well have been extensive fraud in the Iranian elections. But the way our perception of those events in Iran has been manipulated is to suggest that this was a revolution that was said to overthrow the Islamic revolution of 1979. That is simply just not true. That has preoccupied the mainstream media. It has been on the front pages, and the top of the news and the networks.
Contrast that with Honduras, yes, it has been a news item, way at the end of Michael Jackson. As a main component of this news item has been the Obama administration’s alleged condemnation of the Honduran coup. But if you look at the condemnation, which is built on the fact they said, well they’ve tried to sway the Honduran military from staging the coup, and I have to say Hiliary Clinton does not want to call it a coup because she does so, the Foreign Assistance Act would kick in and she would have to withdraw all the military support to the 600 US military personal who are based in Honduras. But she said and administration officials have said, “Look, we tried to persuade the Honduran military from going ahead with this.” Well, you turn that around, and that means they knew that a coup was coming. And just beggars belief that they did not play a major role in the events–that may well have gone out of their control, they may well have not wanted the coup in its present form, in its present crude form to happen-but they knew about it.
It is so parallels the 2002 coup against Chavez. Now that story, what really is the kernel of that news story, it is really what really matters in that story, what did the U.S. play its traditional role or not, and why has the elected president of Honduras been kicked out of this country? That has been relegated. So, you have two news stories. You have the Iranian story of protests for freedom, that’s approved, thats a worthy story. You have the Honduras story of our friends in the south just getting a little bit of control, that is an unworthy story. Two different perceptions in two very, very important areas.
A solidarity convoy of sixty people bound for Honduras was detained in Maicao, Colombia, by military forces, Venezuelan public television channel VTV reported on Monday. The convoy, which included nineteen Honduran doctors, was initiated by grassroots organisations, workers representatives and students in Venezuela and aimed to show solidarity with the Honduran people in the aftermath of the military coup that ousted the democratically elected president of that country, Manuel Zelaya, on June 28.
Miguel Mora, a member of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), and a participant in the convoy, denounced via telephone, that immediately after Colombian customs had allowed the convoy to cross the border, they were detained by the Administrative Security Department (DAS) of Colombia, who alleged they had committed crimes, such as carrying political material.
"First they allowed us to pass, but when we had crossed the border towards the interior of Colombia and we were going in buses with logos of President Hugo Chavez that said ‘Solidarity with the Honduran people', the DAS immediately detained us alleging that we were committing a crime that in their country is not allowed, of carrying political material, of carrying images of President Chavez and material in solidarity with the Honduran people," Mora explained.
The convoy, which departed on Saturday from Simon Bolivar House, Caracas, had planned to pass through Colombia, Panamá, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and arrive a few days later in Honduras via land.
Mora said the forty Venezuelans, nineteen Honduran doctors and one Cuban participating in the convoy remained detained; their passports had been taken from them and the place where they were located, cordoned off. Mora indicated that he had managed to slip away with a telephone and, through this, communicate with VTV.
"They detained us simply for carrying pictures of Chavez and a solidarity banner with the Honduran people," he said.
President Manuel Zelaya arrived early this morning to Washington, D.C., to participate in several meetings with the Organization of American States (OAS) and the U.S. Department of State. The Honduran president, ousted in a military coup on Sunday, June 28, has a scheduled meeting at 1PM (EDT) with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It is unclear what exactly is expected of this meeting. Most likely President Zelaya will request the US Government cease ALL military and economic aid to Honduras until the coup government steps down. However, it is unlikely that Washington will comply with this request in its entirety. The Department of State has already been clear that it is not subject to suspending any aid directed toward "democracy promotion", which includes large part of the $49 million it is investing this year in Honduras through USAID. There have also been no moves to remove the US military presence from Honduras, which probably won't happen either, since the Pentagon undoubtedly wants to maintain the presence, and also shares very close ties with the Honduran military involved in the coup against President Zelaya.
Today, a group of representatives from the coup government have also arrived in Washington, and have a scheduled press conference at 3pm at the National Press Club in Washington DC. Their visit has been organized by Republican Senator John McCain, who is also the chairman of the International Republican Institute, heavily implicated in the Honduran coup (see my blog entry below). A lobbying firm with close ties to McCain, the Cormac Group, has organized the coup representatives' press conference this afternoon. John W. Timmons, founding partner of the Cormac Group, was legislative counsel to Senator McCain and directed his legislative agenda, principally in the area of commerce. Cormac Group also represents the neo-fascist, anti-castro Cuban mafia company, Barcardi USA.
Yesterday, President Obama mentioned the situation in Honduras in a speech he gave before the New Economic School in Moscow. He stated the following: "Even as we meet here today, America supports now the restoration of the democratically-elected President of Honduras, even though he has strongly opposed American policies. We do so not because we agree with him. We do so because we respect the universal principle that people should choose their own leaders, whether they are leaders we agree with or not."
Well, glad that's cleared up. Obama, et al, don't like President Zelaya, but he was elected by his people, so....
President Zelaya's meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has just concluded in the State Department's offices in Washington. President Zelaya is still meeting right now with Sub-Secretary of State Thomas Shannon and National Security Council Advisor on Latin America, Dan Restrepo. Clinton gave several remarks at the end of the meeting with President Zelaya, announcing that Costa Rican President Oscar Arias will lead "negotiations" between President Zelaya and the coup government in order to reestablish constitutional order in the country. Clinton refused to respond clearly to a question regarding whether or not the US Government was formally and legally considering the events in Honduras as a "coup d'etat", stating that since "negotiations" and "diplomatic efforts" are going on now, Washington prefers not to comment more on the situation. Clinton, and later State Department spokesperson Ian Kelly, would not comment on the presence of the coup representatives delegation in Washington today, invited by Senator John McCain. Nor would they respond to inquiries regarding alleged meetings between those coup government representatives and Sub-Secretary of State Thomas Shannon.
The main question here is why any negotiations at all are being conducted with a criminal, coup government that violently kidnapped and forced a democratically elected president into exile. The US government says it won't negotiate with terrorists, yet it will negotiate with criminals, repressors, human rights violators, kidnappers and coup leaders. And, its letting them roam freely through the halls of Congress today.
"[As Americans] it's like, 'Oh my god, people are rioting in the streets!' But they're doing that every Saturday night. I hate to be so crass about it all, but it's just the way their culture works. My job is build golf course -- to get others to invest in the country so they quit acting like like crazy people. Of course it's not crazy to them, just to us."
"We know there was a crime there," said Inestroza, the top legal advisor for the Honduran armed forces. "In the moment that we took him out of the country, in the way that he was taken out, there is a crime."
"We fought the subversive movements here and we were the only country that did not have a fratricidal war like the others," he said. "It would be difficult for us, with our training, to have a relationship with a leftist government. That's impossible."
Using amateur videos and mobile phone pictures, young Hondurans opposed to the ousting of President Manuel Zelaya are uploading images to YouTube in what they have branded a 'tele-coup.'
With media controls in place, national channels offer biased political coverage and frequently cut off all cable channels to broadcast their messages.
Some repeatedly air speeches from the interim leaders who sent Zelaya away on a plane to Costa Rica on June 28, as well as pictures of days-old demos by their supporters.
To counter the one-sided coverage, Zelaya supporters are uploading videos of protests, speeches by union leaders and clashes with the army.
"We call it 'tele-coup' because on the national channels you can't see the reality of what's happening," said engineering student Cesar Silva.
"Obviously if they cut Internet broadband we're dead," Silva told AFP, adding that the supporters use several servers to try to avoid being cut off.
JackRiddler wrote:Thank you John.
I'm amazed at how this thread and the one on Iran seem to be the best third-party compilers of relevant information and analysis on the two crises in English available on the Web. And it's mostly thanks to you.
Sweejak wrote:Hey, will you pretty please tell John Schroder for me that he's put together a truly superb thread on the Honduras coup - none better on the web that i've seen - and that I thank him sincerely and profusely for the terrific, important, and timely information?
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