Who eats the suffering?

[lightningBugout]

Can anyone help me break down the origin and scope of the notion that some sort of non-human entity feeds off of human suffering? Where in myth does one find this idea? Etc.

[MacCruiskeen]

Well, there's the old Gnostic idea that this world was made by a bad God who delights in his creatures' suffering, but no doubt you're aware of that.

Personally I think it's clear that much, probably most, of the suffering experienced by humans and other animals is caused quite simply by humans. As Alasdair Gray put it (speaking through his fictional creation, the tormented child Duncan Thaw):

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is hate.

Later, Thaw becomes an art student, and the line turns up again, slightly varied, in another fever dream:

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is separation.

[lightningBugout]

Well, there's the old Gnostic idea that this world was made by a bad God who delights in his creatures' suffering, but no doubt you're aware of that.

Personally I think it's clear that much, probably most, of the suffering experienced by humans and other animals is caused quite simply by humans. As Alasdair Gray put it (speaking through his fictional creation, the tormented child Duncan Thaw):

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is hate.

Later, Thaw becomes an art student, and the line turns up again, slightly varied, in another fever dream:

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is separation.

I'm looking more for entities that put David Icke's "ideas" into a historical and mythological context. Cross cultural variants on demons and such. More specifically even than just demons or nefarious beings that like to cause mischief. I'm specifically looking for ones which draw some sort of sustenance from human suffering. OP ED?

[erosoplier]

Personally I think it's clear that much, probably most, of the suffering experienced by humans and other animals is caused quite simply by humans. As Alasdair Gray put it (speaking through his fictional creation, the tormented child Duncan Thaw):

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is hate.

Later, Thaw becomes an art student, and the line turns up again, slightly varied, in another fever dream:

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is separation.

Wouldn't the truth, or at least a nicely rounded trilogy, be:

Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, and the recipe is love.

?

[Searcher08]

I know that Castaneda had the Voladores (sp ?) or Flyers, of which there were six types discussed in The Active Side of Infinity.

These parallel (or rip off ) Chogyam Trungpa's The Myth of Freedom ,where there are Six Bardo States.

[lightningBugout]

Wow, Searcher are you a big Trungpa fan?

[justdrew]

OK, put on the hip waders... I don't exactly fully believe this in all details, but it's a potential explanatory framework synthesized from a variety of sources. The full implications would take a book length or more, so just a quick brief here. My intuition says there's a possibility that this is at least close to the real situation. and it's not pretty.

I feel this warning necessary: this is within the realm of starkly bizarre ideas, so touch them lightly if at all, or at least be careful who you talk about this to. "Expression of these concepts may constitute a potentially commit-able offense."

___
There's the idea "feeds off suffering" or is it more a matter of "feeds off" and suffering is just one way to milk it faster? This would be based on the idea of some kind of energy flow into and out of people that sustains the existence of that portion of the being not incorporated in the physical body. The feeders, who presumably exist in the same "place" as the non-corporeal portion of ourselves, can be assumed to be for some reason cut-off from this flow, and so need to get fed elseways in order to continue to exist; or need more of this energy for some reason than they get naturally. The idea of the higher self being considerable as an other-dimensional thermodynamic dissipative structure/process, requiring energy input from outside itself in order to stave off entropy seem reasonable, as such things go. We've no idea what the nature of that energy is since we've got nearly no idea at all of what the nature of this other-dimensional domain is like. Some call it God's Love or Light from the creator/source. It may well be something like an other-dimensional-equivalent of a photon, so light is a good metaphor.

Just as there are no anti-photons, because photons do not have any quantum numbers to be reversed, there is no Darkness, there is only an absence of Light.

The energy received in the flow isn't destroyed in the receiving being and so there is also an outflow. If the outflow is blocked or reduced, there would be a reduction in the inflow as well. This may be one of the ways in which greed harms the self.

One significant point is that there is a major issue of Will about how that output is directed. It seems probable that these hypothetical 'feeders' can't just take what they want. They have to convince their prospective source to give it. "convince" by any means available. Including setting up whole social structures "down here"

So, random mass slaughters are not the kind of thing just any feeder can exploit. Only the ones in line to receive from the big major religions stand to benefit. Although some cult wipe-outs may well be small scale feeders in action.

It seems that the other-dimensional component of our being naturally connects to the energy flow, by incarnating in a physical body. The feeders don't want to do that, for a variety of reasons.

Much of this is explained slightly differently in a short book available since the 80s online called "War in Heaven by Kyle Griffith" - which I think is full of shit on some fronts, but contains some possible aspects of the real deal. Be wary approaching the material if you look into it, this is some deeply weird stuff.

but I would be interested in hearing any reactions to these ideas.

[monster]

Gnostic archons fit the bill, I don't know if they're the earliest such myth:

What then is the interest of the Archons in opposing the exodus of the soul from the world? The gnostic answer is thus recounted by Epiphanius: “They say that the soul is the food of the Archons and Powers without which they cannot live, because (the soul) is of the dew from above and gives them strength.”

As quoted here and here, both websites being surprisingly cool-looking.

[Sweejak]

I suppose we shouldn't leave out the Cassiopaean Experiment via Laura Knight.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/waveindex.htm

[Searcher08]

Wow, Searcher are you a big Trungpa fan?

More a big Carlos fan once upon a time.
I like what he did and how he worked a lot.

"...Westward, a single breath blows across the plains, Nebraska's
fields harvested & stubble bending delicate in evening airs
up Rockies, from Denver's Cherry Creekbed another zephyr risen,
across Pike's Peak an icy blast at sunset, Wind River peaktops
flowing toward the Tetons,
a breath returns vast gliding grass flats cow-dotted into Jackson Hole,
into a corner of the plains,
up the asphalt road and mud parking lot, a breeze of restless
September, up wood stairways in the wind
into the cafeteria at Teton Village under the red tram lift
a calm breath, a silent breath, a slow breath breathes outward from
the nostrils."
--from AG, "Mind Breaths"

[Avalon]

There's the idea "feeds off suffering" or is it more a matter of "feeds off" and suffering is just one way to milk it faster? This would be based on the idea of some kind of energy flow into and out of people that sustains the existence of that portion of the being not incorporated in the physical body. The feeders, who presumably exist in the same "place" as the non-corporeal portion of ourselves, can be assumed to be for some reason cut-off from this flow, and so need to get fed elseways in order to continue to exist; or need more of this energy for some reason than they get naturally. The idea of the higher self being considerable as an other-dimensional thermodynamic dissipative structure/process, requiring energy input from outside itself in order to stave off entropy seem reasonable, as such things go. We've no idea what the nature of that energy is since we've got nearly no idea at all of what the nature of this other-dimensional domain is like. Some call it God's Love or Light from the creator/source. It may well be something like an other-dimensional-equivalent of a photon, so light is a good metaphor.

Just as there are no anti-photons, because photons do not have any quantum numbers to be reversed, there is no Darkness, there is only an absence of Light.

The energy received in the flow isn't destroyed in the receiving being and so there is also an outflow. If the outflow is blocked or reduced, there would be a reduction in the inflow as well. This may be one of the ways in which greed harms the self.

One significant point is that there is a major issue of Will about how that output is directed. It seems probable that these hypothetical 'feeders' can't just take what they want. They have to convince their prospective source to give it. "convince" by any means available. Including setting up whole social structures "down here"

So, random mass slaughters are not the kind of thing just any feeder can exploit. Only the ones in line to receive from the big major religions stand to benefit. Although some cult wipe-outs may well be small scale feeders in action.

I find myself thinking of them swelling up enormously like ticks on it.

As for whether they can take the suffering when they want, have to have it offered or get it ambiently, maybe it's the difference between wildcrafting, going to the farmers' market, or getting it in a can.

I'd wonder then, if the the tasty bad mojo they've sucked up from us dissipates, gets transformed, or just gets excreted.

[Maddy]

Also from Epiphanius, 9,3:

They say that the flesh must perish and cannot be raised, but belongs to the Archon. But the power in the mensis and semen, they say, is soul "which we gather and eat and whatever we eat - meat, vegetables, bread or anything else - we do creatures a favour by gathering the soul from them and and taking it to the heavens with us.

[Maddy]

Epiphanius, 10,8:

The Archon who holds this world captive looks like a dragon. He swallows souls that are not in the know, and returns them to the world through his phallus, here <to be implanted> in pigs and other animals, and brought up again by those.

[slimmouse]

If you are currently engaged in this physical reality, yet see the whole thing as something of a cosmic shell game which Im sure Icke does, then what is one supposed to do ?

Ignore the physical level where most peoples conception of reality exists despite fully understanding that ultimately it is all relatively irrelevant ?

Or try and make this physical reality a better place by saying it as you see it ( or has been told to you anecdotally or has been written through countless ancient texts and myths and legends ) ?

Right or wrong I can only dream of having the courage of David Icke

[justdrew]

I'd wonder then, if the the tasty bad mojo they've sucked up from us dissipates, gets transformed, or just gets excreted.

I'd guess as it passes through each being it comes out at a lower 'wave-length' or 'energy-level' - eventually this probably ends up dissipating to the point that it's absorbed back into the pleroma. These hypothetical feeders would probably be able to use their own outflows via their will to "build" "stuff" "up there" or perhaps effect communication with both their earthly and non-earthly minions. Anything "made" in this way runs down, dissipates, and so has to be continually 'fed' as well, this may be one reason for the feeders need to feed from as many as possible.

Most likely their are entirely other much better ways to "power" things "up there" - but for some reasons, these feeders prefer this method. Like an animal adapted to a niche survival strategy. and then there's also talk of a "false light" that some nasty things use to dazzle the credulous.

this is of course just a hypothesis


of course Dennis Wheatley would put it that way, he was off base a lot of the time I guess.