Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff
Editor's note: Jefferson Morley, a former editor and staff writer for washingtonpost.com, is the author of the forthcoming book, Our Man in Mexico: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA, published by the University Press of Kansas. He has written about the Kennedy assassination for Reader's Digest, the New York Review of Books, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Salon, Washington Monthly and the Miami New Times.
Bob Woodward, my former colleague at the Washington Post, once warned me in a collegial way that the story of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was a journalistic "black hole," and so it is.
Perhaps the single most intriguing story to emerge from the JFK files concerns a career CIA officer named George Joannides. He died in 1990 at age 67, taking his JFK secrets to the grave in suburban Washington. His role in the events leading up to Kennedy's death and its confused investigatory aftermath goes utterly unmentioned in the vast literature of JFK's assassination. Vincent Bugliosi's otherwise impressive 1,600 page book debunking every JFK conspiracy theory known to man mentions him only in an inaccurate footnote.
When the story of the Joannides file emerged, former HSCA chief counsel G. Robert Blakey was stunned by the audacity of Joannides's deception. Blakey, a former federal prosecutor, thought the Agency had cooperated with Congress's effort to look into JFK's murder. Twenty-three years later he learned that the CIA bureaucrat ostensibly assisting his staff was actually a material witness in the investigation. "The Agency set me up," reported the Washington Post.
Blakey, now a law professor at Notre Dame, says Joannides's actions were "little short of outrageous. You could make a prima facie case that it amounted to obstruction of Congress, which is a felony."
Blakey has long argued that organized crime figures orchestrated Kennedy's assassination. The revelation of Joannides's unknown role has given him second thoughts about the CIA's credibility.
"You can't really infer from the Joannides story that they [the CIA] did it," he says. "Maybe he was hiding something that is not complicitous in a plot but merely embarrassing. It certainly undermines everything that they have said about JFK's assassination."
Bringuier went so far as to issue a press release on Oswald, calling for a congressional investigation of the then-obscure ex-Marine. "Write to your congressman for a full investigation on Mr. Lee H. Oswald, a confessed 'Marxist,'" the DRE spokesman wrote on August 21, 1963.
Did George Joannides of the CIA ignore Bringuier's prescient and potentially life-saving call for investigating Oswald?
Whether Oswald ever read this recruiting pitch is unknown. What is certain is that the CIA's campaign of assassination had gotten inside Castro's head. The same week that See hit the newsstands in Miami, the canny Cuban leader pulled aside an Associated Press reporter at a diplomatic reception in Havana. He said that he knew the CIA was plotting to kill him or his brother. "We are prepared to...answer in kind," the Cuban leader said. If American plots continued, he added, "United States leaders would be in danger...they themselves will not be safe."
In September 1963, a month after confronting Joannides's assets in New Orleans, Oswald went to Mexico City and visited the Cuban consulate, seeking a visa. He passed through a CIA surveillance program code-named LIERODE. He then visited the Soviet Embassy where his voice was picked up by a telephonic wiretapping program known as LIENVOY. (These recordings of Oswald, seized from the home office safe of Mexico City station chief Win Scott, were hidden from investigators and later destroyed.)
This cable, dated October 10, 1963, is no smoking gun. But is one of the key new documents in the JFK paper trail whose significance is not appreciated by the mainstream media or the furious partisans of the JFK chat groups.
The interest of these senior officials does not necessarily imply anything more sinister than a bureaucracy's natural tendency to cover its ass. The CIA had ample reason to be monitoring Oswald in late 1963. He publicly supported the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, a pro-Castro group, formally classified as a "subversive" organization by U.S. national security agencies. He attempted to travel to Cuba via Mexico, a signal of intent to violate U.S. law. Naturally, the Agency was paying attention.
There have also been interesting developments from the crime scene, perhaps the most important of which may seem like a no-brainer: The famous 26-second Zapruder home movie of JFK's murder contains original undoctored photographic imagery of the assassination. This authentication was deemed necessary by the Assassination Records Review Board, created by Congress to oversee the release of JFK records, because a vocal faction of JFK conspiracy theorists in the 1990s started claiming that the film had been surreptitiously altered to hide evidence of a conspiracy. (Their theory refuted, these conspiracy theorists abandoned the JFK field for greener pastures of 9/11 speculation.)
II. CSI Dallas
There have also been interesting developments from the crime scene, perhaps the most important of which may seem like a no-brainer: The famous 26-second Zapruder home movie of JFK's murder contains original undoctored photographic imagery of the assassination.
O'Dell is an unobtrusively brilliant man who lives with his wife in Fresno, California. By day, he runs the technology department of an insurance company. O'Dell is not one of those people drawn to the assassination by interest in the Kennedys or true crime stories or political conspiracies or the Mafia or anything like that -- and that is a great strength of his work. He does not embody the paranoid style in American politics. He embodies the empirical style sorely lacking in most JFK coverage. His methods are detached, analytical, polite and methodical. His e-mail exchanges with Thomas are civil.
The HSCA asked two other nationally known acoustic scientists, Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy, to examine Barger's data, focusing on the alleged from the grassy knoll. They found that the pattern of impulses closely matched the pattern from the Dictabelt. They concluded there was a 95 percent probability of a shot from the grassy knoll.
This finding confirmed what a substantial minority of the people at the crime scene thought. The book reviewers don't seem to know it but at the very least a significant minority of eyewitnesses thought at least one gun shot came from in front of JFK's motorcade.
One of the more judicious surveys of statements given by people in the crowd in the vicinity of the motorcade found that 40 out of 103 bystanders said that at least some of the gunfire came from behind a stockade fence atop the knoll. The tally was done by John McAdams, a Marquette University professor who runs a reliable website that debunks JFK conspiracy theories.
Our Man in Mexico
By Jefferson Morley
Reviewed by James DiEugenio
.....
Oddly, Morley writes that a Palestinian waiter killed Robert Kennedy. (p. 282) Sirhan was never a waiter at the Ambassador Hotel. And the sentence assumes Sirhan was the actual assassin. Which jibes with the curious and unexplained statements in the book-made more than once-- that Oswald shot Kennedy.
vigilant wrote:Further, the CIA was ordered to search JFK act files that it had transferred to NARA, but had admitted to keeping copies of as well as to sent to NARA but that aren't to be released to the public until 2017.
Hugh,
.....
...why does the above in blue occur at all?
As powerful as the alphabet people are, why in the hell do we even have the 50 year secrecy rule as it pertains to FOIA? Why don't they just seal the documents and let that be it? Why do they even bother to put a time limit on the sealing of info?
To give the impression that un-redacted info will be released in the future maybe? This always puzzled me a bit.
Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:http://www.playboy.com/magazine/features/jfk/jfk-page01.html
I'm reading this Jefferson Morley article in Playboy with a gas mask on and the windows open. He's working for the CIA sure as sewage stinks.
All in bold below are longtime CIA venues-Editor's note: Jefferson Morley, a former editor and staff writer for washingtonpost.com, is the author of the forthcoming book, Our Man in Mexico: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA, published by the University Press of Kansas. He has written about the Kennedy assassination for Reader's Digest, the New York Review of Books, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Salon, Washington Monthly and the Miami New Times.
Bob Woodward, my former colleague at the Washington Post, once warned me in a collegial way that the story of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was a journalistic "black hole," and so it is.
Say what about Vincent Bugliosi?Perhaps the single most intriguing story to emerge from the JFK files concerns a career CIA officer named George Joannides. He died in 1990 at age 67, taking his JFK secrets to the grave in suburban Washington. His role in the events leading up to Kennedy's death and its confused investigatory aftermath goes utterly unmentioned in the vast literature of JFK's assassination. Vincent Bugliosi's otherwise impressive 1,600 page book debunking every JFK conspiracy theory known to man mentions him only in an inaccurate footnote.
Here Morley covers Robert Blakey's lying ass with 'gosh, he was deceived.'
Shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
When the story of the Joannides file emerged, former HSCA chief counsel G. Robert Blakey was stunned by the audacity of Joannides's deception. Blakey, a former federal prosecutor, thought the Agency had cooperated with Congress's effort to look into JFK's murder. Twenty-three years later he learned that the CIA bureaucrat ostensibly assisting his staff was actually a material witness in the investigation. "The Agency set me up," reported the Washington Post.
Blakey, now a law professor at Notre Dame, says Joannides's actions were "little short of outrageous. You could make a prima facie case that it amounted to obstruction of Congress, which is a felony."
Blakey has long argued that organized crime figures orchestrated Kennedy's assassination. The revelation of Joannides's unknown role has given him second thoughts about the CIA's credibility.
"You can't really infer from the Joannides story that they [the CIA] did it," he says. "Maybe he was hiding something that is not complicitous in a plot but merely embarrassing. It certainly undermines everything that they have said about JFK's assassination."
Gee, Oswald really did it?Bringuier went so far as to issue a press release on Oswald, calling for a congressional investigation of the then-obscure ex-Marine. "Write to your congressman for a full investigation on Mr. Lee H. Oswald, a confessed 'Marxist,'" the DRE spokesman wrote on August 21, 1963.
Did George Joannides of the CIA ignore Bringuier's prescient and potentially life-saving call for investigating Oswald?
Wait, Castro did it.Whether Oswald ever read this recruiting pitch is unknown. What is certain is that the CIA's campaign of assassination had gotten inside Castro's head. The same week that See hit the newsstands in Miami, the canny Cuban leader pulled aside an Associated Press reporter at a diplomatic reception in Havana. He said that he knew the CIA was plotting to kill him or his brother. "We are prepared to...answer in kind," the Cuban leader said. If American plots continued, he added, "United States leaders would be in danger...they themselves will not be safe."
Oh, and that totally faked story about Oswald going to Mexico? Now it is true again and Morley is rerunning the CIA's fabrications.In September 1963, a month after confronting Joannides's assets in New Orleans, Oswald went to Mexico City and visited the Cuban consulate, seeking a visa. He passed through a CIA surveillance program code-named LIERODE. He then visited the Soviet Embassy where his voice was picked up by a telephonic wiretapping program known as LIENVOY. (These recordings of Oswald, seized from the home office safe of Mexico City station chief Win Scott, were hidden from investigators and later destroyed.)
Seems the JFK researchers online are just "chat groups" of "furious partisans" when it comes to "new documents." Of course, the authenticity of those "new documents" is extremely suspect.
Say, isn't that negative framing and injection of possible disinfo? I'd say.
This cable, dated October 10, 1963, is no smoking gun. But is one of the key new documents in the JFK paper trail whose significance is not appreciated by the mainstream media or the furious partisans of the JFK chat groups.
Here Morley tells us why the vigilant CIA was paying attention to that 'lone commie, Oswald' and repeats all the cover created for a double agent-suckered-into-patsy as if he was just homegrown trouble up to no good on his own. What blatant falsehood here-The interest of these senior officials does not necessarily imply anything more sinister than a bureaucracy's natural tendency to cover its ass. The CIA had ample reason to be monitoring Oswald in late 1963. He publicly supported the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, a pro-Castro group, formally classified as a "subversive" organization by U.S. national security agencies. He attempted to travel to Cuba via Mexico, a signal of intent to violate U.S. law. Naturally, the Agency was paying attention.
"Naturally, the Agency was paying attention." Oh, brother.![]()
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But wait! Now for some misleading tapdancing around the Zapruder film segueing into...
TA DA - 9/11 DISINFO! WOO HOO!There have also been interesting developments from the crime scene, perhaps the most important of which may seem like a no-brainer: The famous 26-second Zapruder home movie of JFK's murder contains original undoctored photographic imagery of the assassination. This authentication was deemed necessary by the Assassination Records Review Board, created by Congress to oversee the release of JFK records, because a vocal faction of JFK conspiracy theorists in the 1990s started claiming that the film had been surreptitiously altered to hide evidence of a conspiracy. (Their theory refuted, these conspiracy theorists abandoned the JFK field for greener pastures of 9/11 speculation.)
This is my favorite example of this articles's misdirection.
When it gets around to the medical evidence, one of the most gruesome parts of the cover-up that also points right at the highest levels (like Pentagon/CIA) is that JFK's mostly destroyed brain was first substituted with another less damaged one for autopsy photos and then after it was stored by itself as evidence...it disappeared sometime in 1965 or 1966.
Dr. Gary Aguilar's work is minimized by Morley but here is Aguilar on this-
http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/c010699b.html
So how does Morley 'dispose' of this brain evidence in his disinfo article?
He turns it into a mere figure of speech-II. CSI Dallas
There have also been interesting developments from the crime scene, perhaps the most important of which may seem like a no-brainer: The famous 26-second Zapruder home movie of JFK's murder contains original undoctored photographic imagery of the assassination.
"...a no-brainer..." Get it? Hunh-hunh? Get it? "...a no-brainer...."
This Morley guy is SUCH A JOKER. Such the funny man, haw-haw.
Now for more gobs of negative framing of JFK researchers here when the dictabelt recording is refuted by a Mr. O'Dell-O'Dell is an unobtrusively brilliant man who lives with his wife in Fresno, California. By day, he runs the technology department of an insurance company. O'Dell is not one of those people drawn to the assassination by interest in the Kennedys or true crime stories or political conspiracies or the Mafia or anything like that -- and that is a great strength of his work. He does not embody the paranoid style in American politics. He embodies the empirical style sorely lacking in most JFK coverage. His methods are detached, analytical, polite and methodical. His e-mail exchanges with Thomas are civil.
Here's severe minimization of the enormous number of people who heard shots from the grassy knoll and fenceline plus a misleading photo instead of the stunning photos showing a stampede of people and cops towards the grassy knoll-The HSCA asked two other nationally known acoustic scientists, Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy, to examine Barger's data, focusing on the alleged from the grassy knoll. They found that the pattern of impulses closely matched the pattern from the Dictabelt. They concluded there was a 95 percent probability of a shot from the grassy knoll.
This finding confirmed what a substantial minority of the people at the crime scene thought. The book reviewers don't seem to know it but at the very least a significant minority of eyewitnesses thought at least one gun shot came from in front of JFK's motorcade.
"...a substantial minority...a significant minority..."
That's misleading minimization. I'm still trying to find the stills from Tina Towner's filming of the assassination aftermath with a stampede of people up to the grassy knoll and overpass to find the perps.
Now one disinformationist pays tribute to another as Morley pimps the CIA's lead online JFK liar, John McAdams-One of the more judicious surveys of statements given by people in the crowd in the vicinity of the motorcade found that 40 out of 103 bystanders said that at least some of the gunfire came from behind a stockade fence atop the knoll. The tally was done by John McAdams, a Marquette University professor who runs a reliable website that debunks JFK conspiracy theories.
Morley is an unmitigated disinformationist, no question about it.
The bleat goes on...la di da di da....
That's enough exposing this article's deceptions and frame-ups for now.
Back to just reading this 'blame it on the dead guy' misdirection...
Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:...Perhaps it would help if you were to specify why you think Morley “rightly links (Alford) to the Mary Pinchot Meyer case.”
I fail to see the slightest similarity. One is a 19 year old who lived to tell her alleged tale five decades later, and the other a worldly woman married to a CIA careerist, who separated from him and was thereafter murdered, without writing a tell-all book. Aside from both allegedly sleeping with the President, what do they share in common? And whatever it is, why did Morley fail to mention this commonality if it is so important?.
You say that you learned some time ago that people aren’t right about everything. Indeed.
However, this veteran journalist got a very elementary detail spectacularly wrong, per your own admission, yet is nevertheless somehow well placed to offer an opinion - for it is only that, absent any evidence for its veracity - because....? Because it dovetails with your own bias, perhaps?
One notes your chiding tone toward JFK researchers who may not share your opinion on this book. Morley’s take is “sensible and logical,” whereas the “other JFK researchers cannot do that.” In fact, Morley’s take is only one man’s opinion, and defies both sense and logic. A visit to the following link would help explain (at least partly) why to all but the most wilfully, obdurately partisan.
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net ... ing-alford
Others here have already raised equally salient points.
If you have something more than mere condescension to offer, I’d welcome it. If not, posts such as these - with so lazy and baseless a blanket denunciation of those who may not necessarily agree with you - don’t elevate the tone of debate.
And if Mimi Alford was so intent upon making sure her daughters knew the totality of her life story, why didn’t she just tell them? Or commit it in writing for their exclusive consumption, without seeking a personal profit from it?
Much about this book is highly suspect, but reasons for wariness will be ignored by those who have already concluded that JFK was a “lousy human being.” Such prejudice is precisely what this book was designed to feed upon. And does. And will.
Or, as your boy Dickens said, “There are books of which the backs and covers are by far the best parts.”
Posted 23 March 2012 - 01:20 PM
From Salon.com
The return of "Castro did it" theory
by Jefferson Morley
March 22, 2012
Excerpt:
The charge is sensational because Latell is the highest-ranking former CIA official to ever accuse the Cuban leader of personal responsibility for JFK’s death. It is uncorroborated because much of the evidence Latell cites in the book is not in the public record or available to JFK scholars. Even the CIA is keeping its distance. When I asked the Agency to comment on Latell’s thesis on Wednesday, a spokesperson replied, “You can report the CIA declined comment.”
Still, Latell is a former CIA official in good standing, and his allegations signal the CIA may be changing its institutional position on the causes of JFK’s death. As the 50th anniversary of JFK’s death approaches in 2013, Latell’s book indicates the Agency defenders are moving toward “a modified limited hangout” — Washington lingo for a public relations maneuver to release previously hidden information in the service of preventing exposure of more damning detail.
For most of the past five decades the institutional posture of the CIA has said that there is no evidence of conspiracy in Kennedy’s death and no evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald, a known leftist, acted at Castro’s behest. In 1967, CIA director Richard Helms sent an order to every CIA station in the world ordering them to take steps to combat speculation about Oswald’s motives and associations. The Agency’s line echoed the Warren Commission: that Oswald had killed JFK for reasons known only to himself and anybody who thought differently was irrational or anti-American or both. If Latell, a career CIA employee, had written his book in the 1960s or 1970s, he would have been fired.
Complete article: http://www.salon.com/2012/03/22/the_ret ... singleton/
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... opic=18926
Posted Today, 01:03 AM
Jeff Morley's article on Sgt. Bales, the soldier who shot up the Afghans talks about the reports of more than one guy was responsible. I think itwas one guy – it is after all an - Army of One – but the conspiracy theory I have heard but have notyet read about is the possibility he was part of a MKULTRA type experiment.
Did Sgt. Bales have help? - Salon.com
From the US military report – Use of Humans in Chemical Agent Research – they used soldiers, prisoners and students as theprimary subjects of the MKULTRA research with LSD and other such experimental drugs, and this guy certainly qualifies on that count.
And just as Tom Clancy wrote about Japanese suicide airplane hijackers years before 9/11, Jacob's Ladder is a sci-fi-movie about an American soldier who they experiment on who goes nuts – and it begs the question of whether or not this guy was one of those test subjects.
If you want I will dig out my old files on the military's experiments, a story that I did in 1977 with Bill Vitka, now with CBS Newsradio in NYC and John Judge. Using the military report Judge obtained, Vitkaexposed University of Penn professor Dr. Albert Kligman as one of the research scientists who experimented with Dixon, mainly on prisoners,but also students and soldiers.
I later met one of Kligman's patients who I am still in contact with, and he told me some horror stories, all kept secret because of national security...
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... opic=18967
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Warren Stupidity (a host of the General Discussion forum).
Corporate McPravda continues to, ah, fumble JFK assassination reportage.![]()
Regarding Robert F. Kennedy and Rory Kennedy's interview in which they expressed their father's thinking on the assassination of President Kennedy:Fact check: ABC’s Marquardt fumbles JFK facts
Jefferson Morley
January 13, 2013
ABC News correspondent Alexander Marquardt made two factual mistakes in his Good Morning America report today on Robert Kennedy Jr.’s remarks that his father believed “rogue CIA agents” may have been involved in uncle’s assassination.
Marquardt stated, “Now for the first time ever we’re learning that JFK’s own brother and Attorney General RFK was quote ‘fairly convinced’ that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone.”
That is not accurate. RFK’s views had been reported twice previously by credible sources.
SNIP...
ABC News then erred by quoting historian Robert Dallek about the JFK assassination controversy without context. On camera the UCLA historian said that the assassination has been “investigated, re-investigated, investigated again and again and no one’s ever come up with highly credible evidence” to contradict the theory that Oswald acted alone.
CONTINUED...
http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/fact- ... #more-2351
PS: Founded by Jefferson Morley and Rex Bradford, http://www.JFKFacts.org is a new website that DUers and everyone interested in learning the truth about Dallas should know about.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022189427
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