Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby Penguin » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:50 pm

Not to mention the even more stunning stuff, that stuns no animal owner who has tried to communicate with the animals like equals and with an open mind.

At the same time, some scientists still claim that dogs, apes and parrots "don't really talk" even if they use a couple hundred word vocabulary lively and creatively. Some people do not really think either ;) They just regurgitate.

The most "controversial" first (ha!) -

http://www.sheldrake.org/nkisi/
http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Animals/parrot_abs.html

Testing a Language - Using Parrot for Telepathy
by RUPERT SHELDRAKE and AIMÉE MORGANA

ABSTRACT:
Aimée Morgana noticed that her language-using African Grey parrot, N'kisi, often seemed to respond to her thoughts and intentions in a seemingly telepathic manner. We set up a series of trials to test whether this apparent telepathic ability would be expressed in formal tests in which Aimée and the parrot were in different rooms, on different floors, under conditions in which the parrot could receive no sensory information from Aimée or from anyone else. During these trials Aimée and the parrot were both videotaped continuously. At the beginning of each trial, Aimée opened a numbered sealed envelope containing a photograph, and then looked at it for two minutes. These photographs corresponded to a prespecified list of key words in N'kisi's vocabulary, and were selected and randomized in advance by a third party. We conducted a total of 149 two-minute trials. The recordings of N'kisi during these trials were transcribed blind by three independent transcribers. Their transcripts were generally in good agreement. Using a majority scoring method, in which at least two of the three transcribers were in agreement, N'kisi said one or more of the key words in 71 trials. He scored 23 hits: the key words he said corresponded to the target pictures. In a Randomized Permutation Analysis (RPA), there were as many or more hits than N'kisi actually scored in only 5 out of 20,000 random permutations, giving a p value of 5/20,000 or 0.00025. In a Bootstrap Resampling Analysis (BRA), only 4 out of 20,000 permutations equalled or exceeded N'kisi's actual score (p = 0.0002). Both by the RPA and BRA the mean number of hits expected by chance was 12, with a standard deviation of 3. N'kisi repeated key words more when they were hits than when they were misses. These findings are consistent with the hypothesis that N'kisi was reacting telepathically to Aimée's mental activity.

Published in http://www.scientificexploration.org/jo ... ldrake.pdf

Alex, the African Grey Parrot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%28parrot%29

Alex (1976 - September 6, 2007[1]) was an African Grey Parrot and the subject of a thirty-year (1977-2007) experiment by animal psychologist Irene Pepperberg, initially at the University of Arizona and later at Harvard and Brandeis University. Pepperberg bought Alex in a regular pet shop when he was about one year old.[2] The name Alex is an acronym for Avian Learning EXperiment.[3] His successor was Griffin.

Before Pepperberg's work with Alex, it was widely believed in the scientific community that birds were not intelligent and could only use words by mimicking, but Alex's accomplishments indicated that birds may be able to reason on a basic level and use words creatively.[4] Pepperberg wrote that Alex's intelligence was on a par with that of dolphins and great apes.[5] She also reported that Alex had the intelligence of a five-year-old human[3] and had not even reached his full potential by the time he died.[6] She said that the bird had the emotional level of a human two-year-old at the time of his death.[7]

Accomplishments

Pepperberg, listing Alex's accomplishments in 1999, said he could identify fifty different objects and recognize quantities up to six; that he could distinguish seven colors and five shapes, and understand the concepts of "bigger", "smaller", "same", and "different," and that he was learning "over" and "under".[2] Alex had a vocabulary of about 150 words,[8] but was exceptional in that he appeared to have understanding of what he said. For example, when Alex was shown an object and was asked about its shape, color, or material, he could label it correctly. If asked the difference between two objects, he also answered that, but if there was no difference between the objects, he said “none.” Alex could even add to a limited extent. When he was tired of being tested, he would say “Wanna go back,” meaning he wanted to go back to his cage. If the researcher displayed annoyance, Alex tried to diffuse it with the phrase, “I’m sorry.” If he said “Wanna banana”, but was offered a nut instead, he stared in silence, asked for the banana again, or took the nut and threw it at the researcher. When asked questions in the context of research testing, he gave the correct answer approximately 80 percent of the time.[9]

Preliminary research also seems to indicate that Alex could carry over the concept of four blue balls of wool on a tray to four notes from a piano. Dr. Pepperberg was also training him to recognize the Arabic numeral “4” as “four.”

In July 2005, Pepperberg reported that Alex understood the concept of zero.[10] In July 2006, she discovered that Alex's perception of optical illusions was similar to human perception.[11]

Dr. Pepperberg was training the bird to recognize English phonemes, in the hopes that he would conceptually relate an English written word with the spoken word.[12] He could identify sounds made by two-letter combinations such as SH and OR.[12]

Alex's training used a model/rival technique, where the student (Alex) observes one trainer interacting with another. One of the trainers models the desired student behavior, and is seen by the student as a rival for the other trainer's attention. The trainer and model/rival exchange roles so the student can see that the process is interactive.

http://www.alexfoundation.org/

Animal bodies, human minds
William Allen Hillix, Duane M. Rumbaugh
http://books.google.fi/books?id=NsOMCzO ... navlinks_s

Kanzi, a bonobo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzi
Article about Kanzi -
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 22981.html

Savage-Rumbaugh and her colleagues kept adding symbols to Kanzi’s keyboard and laminated sheets of paper. First Kanzi used 6 symbols, then 18, finally 348. The symbols refer to familiar objects (yogurt, key, tummy, bowl), favored activities (chase, tickle), and even some concepts considered fairly abstract (now, bad).

Kanzi learned to combine these symbols in regular ways, or in what linguists call"proto-grammar."Once, Savage-Rumbaugh says, on an outing in a forest by the Georgia State University laboratory where he was raised, Kanzi touched the symbols for"marshmallow"and"fire."Given matches and marshmallows, Kanzi snapped twigs for a fire, lit them with the matches and toasted the marshmallows on a stick.


Koko, a gorilla:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_%28gorilla%29

Also, see the book by V.B. Dröscher - "Klug wie die Schlangen" - "Wiser than men" from 1962 for some basic awesomeness from nature.

Jackdaws and other research by Konrad Lorenz -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Lorenz
http://www.avianweb.com/jackdaws.html

The complex social interactions that occur in groups of Jackdaws was studied by Konrad Lorenz and he published detailed descriptions of the Jackdaw's social behaviours in his book "King Solomon's Ring". Lorenz put coloured rings on Jackdaws' legs so that individual birds could be easily identified and he caged them in the winter because of their annual migration from Austria. Lorenz observed Jackdaws' hierarchical group structure with dominance of the higher-ranking birds over others. He noticed Jackdaws' strong male–female bonding and that each bird of a pair occupy about the same position in the hierarchy. He reported that a low-ranked female Jackdaw rocketed up the Jackdaw social ladder when she became the mate of a high-ranking male. He also described some Jackdaw calls.

Jackdaws have been observed sharing food and objects. The active giving of food is rare in primates, and in birds is found mainly in the context of parental care and courtship. Jackdaws show much higher levels of active giving than documented for chimpanzees. The function of this behaviour is not fully understood, although it has been found to be compatible with hypotheses of mutualism, reciprocity and harassment avoidance.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/k ... awler=true

Short-term observational spatial memory in Jackdaws (Corvus monedula) and Ravens (Corvus corax)

Authors: Scheid, Christelle1; Bugnyar, Thomas2

Source: Animal Cognition, Volume 11, Number 4, October 2008 , pp. 691-698(8)

Publisher: Springer

Abstract:
Observational spatial memory (OSM) refers to the ability of remembering food caches made by other individuals, enabling observers to find and pilfer the others' caches. Within birds, OSM has only been demonstrated in corvids, with more social species such as Mexican jays (Aphelocoma ultramarine) showing a higher accuracy of finding conspecific' caches than less social species such as Clark's nutcrackers (Nucifraga columbiana). However, socially dynamic corvids such as ravens (Corvus corax) are capable of sophisticated pilfering manoeuvres based on OSM. We here compared the performance of ravens and jackdaws (Corvus monedula) in a short-term OSM task. In contrast to ravens, jackdaws are socially cohesive but hardly cache and compete over food caches. Birds had to recover food pieces after watching a human experimenter hiding them in 2, 4 or 6 out of 10 possible locations. Results showed that for tests with two, four and six caches, ravens performed more accurately than expected by chance whereas jackdaws did not. Moreover, ravens made fewer re-visits to already inspected cache sites than jackdaws. These findings suggest that the development of observational spatial memory skills is linked with the species' reliance on food caches rather than with a social life style per se.



http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_ ... human_gaze

We all know that people sometimes change their behavior when someone is looking their way. A new study in Current Biology shows that jackdaws, birds related to crows and ravens with eyes that appear similar to human eyes, can do the same.

"Jackdaws seem to recognize the eye's role in visual perception, or at the very least they are extremely sensitive to the way that human eyes are oriented," said Auguste von Bayern, formerly of the University of Cambridge and now at the University of Oxford.


(this one should be bloody friggin obvious if you have spent any time observing jackdaws - or, letting them observe you)

http://childmyths.blogspot.com/2009/04/ ... umans.html

A fascinating recent article on an ability usually thought to be human, but apparently shared by some birds:

von Bayern, A.M.P., & Emery, N.J. (2009). Jackdaws respond to human attentional states and communicative cues in different contexts. Current Biology, 19 (7), 602-606.

These researchers looked at the ability of jackdaws to pay attention to the eye movements of nearby humans-- a skill that human beings show from an early age. Human infants develop in the first year of life the ability to look at another person's gaze and figure out what he or she is looking at, as well as the ability to use their own eyes as "pointers" and attract another person's attention to something by looking at the object and then back at the person. However, animals like chimpanzees and dogs do not seem to be able to "read" eyes in this way, although they pay attention to the way a person's head is turned. Can birds demonstrate a skill that chimps and dogs cannot?

von Bayern and Emery put out food for their jackdaws and then timed how long it took them to approach it when an unfamiliar (so, from the jackdaws' viewpoint, possibly dangerous) person was gazing at it. The jackdaws hesitated to approach the food that a stranger was looking at, but readily approached it when a familiar person gazed at it. But the jackdaws did not seem to be able to follow a steady gaze to find food they could not see; a familiar person had to shift the eyes toward the food and point in order to get the birds to pick up on the help that was offered.

Why should jackdaws be able to use humans' eye movements or gaze to get information, when "higher" animals cannot? Does this study mean that other birds can also pick up cues from humans' eyes? One possible reason for jackdaws--but not necessarily other birds-- to have this ability is that jackdaws have dark pupils and light irises, as many humans do. This pattern makes for a complex and attention-getting visual stimulus which may
be familiar to these birds because they have looked at other jackdaws. Of course, human eyes are even more complex patterns, because they have the surrounding white area as well as the contrast between pupil and iris.


Honey guide birds:

http://www.mailsbroadcast.com/b25.honey.bird.htm
http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2009/08/i ... m-bbc.html

Honeyguide birds are named for a remarkable habit seen in one or two species: they guide large mammals like "Ratel or baboons" to bee colonies.

Once the mammal opens the hive and takes the honey, the bird feeds on the remaining wax and larvae.


In this 3-minute segment from a BBC series, David Attenborough introduces the honeyguide, a bird that intentionally communicates with humans. This Kenyan bird has presumably been interacting with humans (and perhaps other mammals) for thousands of years, directing them to locations were African honeybee colonies can be found. After the mammal raids the honeycomb, the bird can enjoy the leftovers

Although it's not mentioned in this video excerpt, I believe a similar interaction has been claimed by North American hunters with regard to crows and ravens, which by legend and modern stories will lead a hunter toward a deer, knowing that after the animal is killed and field-dressed, there will be lots of carrion to enjoy.


To be continued...
Penguin
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:56 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Penguin » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:53 pm

Image

Image

Siberian Jay

http://www.sll.fi/tiedotus/tiedotteet/p ... berianjay2
Finland's government clearcuts in habitats of threatened Siberian Jay- Forest industry giant UPM buys the wood

http://www.oulu.fi/northnature/english/ ... etlin.html

Siberian jay (Perisoreus infestans)

is definitely familiar if you have for example been trekking in Lapland. It’s very curious to know what you are ‘having for lunch’ in a break. This brown-red-greyish bird is also called the northern Finland’s jay. Siberian jay is our smallest crow bird, during nesting time it is hiding but in the summer it is very curious and almost half tame, the lucky bird of the Sami people.

As a omnivorous bird it will certainly check all break places after hiker in order to find crumbs. It is a resident bird so it won’t migrate away for winter.

The distribution of siberian jay is limited to Northern Finland. It’s also the province bird of the Kainuu province and it lives in the old spruce forests. Siberian jay hides its nest in a tall spruce and starts nesting already in March. The dam broods its eggs despite of the possible snowstorms and lively fledglings can be seen already in May - June.

Siberian jay has many names given by folks and it’s also a bird of many beliefs. It’s quite poor singer, it meows, screeches and squeaks so it’s the troll of the forest. Germans have called it the bad luck jay, so in the north it brings luck and the opposite in the south.

(Ive had them eat some of my breakfast while trekking as well. They are really cool, the moment you turn your gaze, they fly down and grab what you are eating, and then fly to the closest tree to eat it :) )

Image

Image
Penguin
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:56 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:45 pm

Penguin, thank you for that info on corvids tracking eye movement. It seems to be normal behavior for Scrub Jays, since even the rowdy gang of 4 juveniles who've currently taken over my back yard exhibit it when interacting with me. I was also intrigued by the bird written about above who "went on an adventure." I've noticed that once they've dumped their offspring in my yard, the parents vanish for up to a couple of months. It's as if they're turning over feeding territory to their young, to ensure their survival. Then they reappear in early winter.

Scrub Jays' knowledge of nest-building isn't entirely hard-wired as it is in other birds. Researchers have written about a "nest visiting day" in Scrub Jay colonies (usually found in very tall trees like redwoods hereabouts). The nests that receive the most visits are the ones containing the noisiest babies and those nests are inspected very carefully by the visitors. The design of those nests is then incorporated into the next nest that the visitor builds--!

Since Merlin was intensely curious about everything I did as I built a garden shed that summer, I have this mental image of a teeny shed-shaped nest built by him way the heck up in one of the local redwoods :wink:

LilyPat
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Penguin » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:46 pm

Perhaps we should examine one of the large unstated assumptions that what we call "intelligence" is correlated with brain size and / or complexity only - or at least, that this is overrated for anthropocentric reasons?

Another corvid fan site -
http://www.progressivewebdesign.ca/corvids.html

The Corvid genus evolved in central Asia and radiated out into North America, Africa, Europe, and Australia millions of years ago. Corvids have been recognized worldwide for their high intelligence, which, according to the National Geographic, may even match chimps and gorillas in problem-solving abilities. This means the average crow far surpasses the intelligence of the average Republican.

While using a dozen distinct sounds to communicate and speaking in complex regional dialects, Corvids also listen for, and react to, calls of other bird species. They can relay messages bird-to-bird within minutes over large distances, which aids them in living in complex, hierarchic societies involving hundreds of individuals. We humans are generally such poor communicators we take years to lodge our long-standing complaints against even our nearest neighbors. Corvid society functions in an organized fashion with members who serve various occupations. The elders serve as directors while the youngsters are employed as scouts, hunters, and guards . . . the organization functions as an organized whole to the whole flock’s advantage. Humans are for the most part simply taught to look out for numero uno, all the while proving our intelligence by getting tangled up in sub-prime loans, pyramid marketing schemes, watching daytime television and hanging out in charming places like smokey bingo halls.

Crows

Corvids have proven to exercise thinking processes that include imagination in solving problems, anticipating outcomes and reading the intentions of others. Corvids are shown to have a sense of humour and enjoy playing tricks on one another. They will use deception and cunning to trick each other into looking in the wrong places when they are actually at another location, by making a ruckus at one spot and then flying silently to the spot where the good food is. This same technique works on people in the mall food court. Corvids will collect shiny metal objects like coins, silverware and jewellery as trophies and status symbols to decorate their nests. Similarly, people will collect plywood Ikea furniture, Anne Geddes prints and plastic celebrity bobble-heads as status symbols to enhance our homes. Corvids will marshal squads to escort hawks and other predators out of their territory. Nature has also pitted owls against crows in an ancient turf struggle where crows harass owls by day while owls use the darkness to regain advantage by night. Rather than getting involved in the commuinty, humans call lawyers and cops to resolve our conflicts for us.



Sneaky western scrub jays have been observed waiting to move food caches when no other jay is looking, seeming to anticipate what other jays may be thinking. I have observed this same cunning behavior with diners at a dessert buffet. Corvids subsist in harmony on a sustainable diet gleaned from their surroundings. Humans insist on paying dearly for food shipped from every corner of the planet and then we still complain. Magpies have proven to be capable of recognizing themselves when they see their own reflection in a mirror, using the mirror to preen their feathers . . . a level of self-conception thought solely to exist in the realm of higher primates and human teenagers. Come to think of it, I leave the house without looking in the mirror most days as do many people it seems . . . begging the question: would magpies make as many downright horrific fashion statements as people make if they had to get dressed every morning?

Most amazingly, crows and ravens have proven to be "meta-toolmakers" meaning not only do they use tools, they also use tools to make tools. Crows and ravens are the only known "meta-toolmakers" outside of a small percentage of humans and chimps with expensive training and experience. Even with advantages over crows like opposable thumbs and human intellect to aid in our inventiveness, blunt objects and cussing have always been the immediate human solution to a mechanical problem. Not so for crows, with whom intellect is paramount. The Caledonian crow has discovered how to bend wires and twigs with bricks or rocks to fish food out of crevices it could not reach with its beak. In addition to different hook tools, these crows use a certain leaf to make sharp poking instruments they sculpt and sharpen. They have also learned how to work in tandem to flip over garbage pails. Because different groupings use different techniques, this may mean crow traditions are being handed down through generations, signifying a type of sophisticated tool-making avian culture. On the other hand we have all observed people angrily hammering on objects with no effect.

....

These birds are so naturally gifted and such resourceful problem solvers, we ought to stop killing them and put them on the pay roll to figure out the problems our politicians consistently fail to solve, decade after decade. Let us get some real bird-brains on the problems we face today. When presented a problem Corvids work hard to find solutions, and this reveals their resourcefulness and creativity. When facing problems, human politicians mindlessly follow the political tradition of rolling over to be unquestioning servants of big money. With all the evidence in, actual problem solving seems to have ceased at some stage of human evolution. We monkeys should just step away from the switches and consult a Council of Corvids on how to proceed.

From this point on, I say we should tirelessly promote and listen to the Amazing Corvids, our oft misunderstood, amazingly gifted bird brothers and sisters!

http://www.ayahuascafoundation.org/AFplants.htm

Plants

Plant medicine is older than history, older than humankind itself, for undoubtably animals were using plants to heal before humans emerged on earth. We, as living beings, are all made of the same planetary material and we use this material, our own and of others, to live together, making up the body of Mother Earth. We share the air we breath with the plants, in a beautiful example of how interconnected we are. Humans breathe out carbon dioxide and plants breath it in. Plants breath out oxygen and humans breathe it in. Where would we be without plants?

The curanderos of the Amazon and from most every ancient culture are still intimately connected with the plants, and they still consider them friends and allies, who help them understand the true nature of reality, and how best to act within it. This is what is referred to as 'la ciencia,' the science. Plants are conscious beings, and if we respect them as our own brothers and sisters, grandmothers and grandfathers, our own children, then we can learn a great deal from them.


http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/Medicine_Primates.doc

snippets:

Evidence is emerging that medicine is not a human invention at all. In fact, we ape animals. An example is the deliberate ingestion of soil, known as "geophagy". In people, it is thought to signal mental health problems. But according to a study of chimpanzees in the Kibale National Park in Uganda, it turns out to be a remedy. Consuming a particular kind of soil, as Sabrina Krief and her colleagues at the Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle in Paris reported recently in the journal Naturwissenschaften, increases the potency of ingested plants, such as the leaves of trichilia rubescens, which have anti-malarial properties. Her team collected earth eaten by chimpanzees, as well as leaves from young T. rubescens trees in the same area. All the soil was rich in the clay mineral kaolinite, the principal component of many anti-diarrhoea medicines.

Clays can bind mycotoxins (fungal toxins), endotoxins (internal toxins secreted by pathogens), man-made toxic chemicals, bacteria and viruses. They also act as an antacid and absorb excess fluids. The scientists replicated the effects of mastication, gastric and intestinal digestion in the laboratory and were surprised. Before being mixed with the soil, the digested leaves had no significant effects. However, when the leaves and soil were digested together, the mixture developed clear anti-malarial properties. "This overlapping use by humans and apes is interesting from both evolutionary and conservation perspectives," says Krief. "Saving apes and their forests is also important for human health."

Prof Michael Huffman, of Kyoto University, believes humans have long looked to other animals for medicinal wisdom. In 1987, he happened to be watching a constipated chimpanzee called Chausiku in the dense rainforest of the Mahale mountains in western Tanzania. Reaching for the shoot of a noxious tree that chimps would normally avoid, Chausiku peeled it and sucked its bitter pith. Within a day, her constipation was gone. It was the first time a scientist had seen a sick chimp select an unsavoury plant known by humans to have medicinal properties, and then recover. The pith, from the tree Vernonia amygdalina, has now given up its secrets. It contains compounds active against many of the parasites responsible for malaria, dysentery and schistosomiasis. The shrub is poisonous and called mjonso - "strong medicine" - by the local people, the WaTongwe. But what is fascinating is that they use the same plant to treat the same illnesses - and take the same time to recover. Prof Huffman has found that nearly all of the ape remedies he has studied are also used by local people as medicine - echoing, he believes, the evolutionary origins of human medicine.

Prof Huffman has shown that individual leaves from any of 34 different plants are swallowed whole by chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas across Africa - but that it tends to be only the sick chimps that will swallow leaves, and that they do so on an empty stomach. He was particularly excited to stumble upon a freshly deposit of chimpanzee dung filled with these swallowed leaves, in which live parasitic worms had been entrapped in the hairy folds. (When not chewed, the leaves are flushed out of the system within six hours in a laxative-like action.)

But self-medication is not confined to chimps. At Bwindi Impenetrable Park and Mgahinga National Park in Uganda, mountain gorillas chew the bark of the nondescript Dombeya tree as a food. The bark is laden with active ingredients, including antibiotics that kill common bacteria such as E. coli, and there is anecdotal evidence that the presence of bugs in gorilla dung matches the ape's Dombeya-eating patterns. In southern Mexico, howler monkeys eat figs that can fight parasite infections.

It is not just curative medicine that was invented by our animal relatives, but preventative, too. Baboons living near the city of Taif, Saudia Arabia, are known to dig drinking holes in the sand directly adjacent to the murky, algae-tainted watering sites of livestock. To ensure the water does not make them sick, they "patiently wait for the filtered water to seep through the sand," says Prof Huffman.

Monkeys also resort to aromatherapy. When capuchins rub each other's fur on the Nicoya Peninsula of Costa Rica they use citrus fruits, notably lemons, limes and oranges, during the rainy season. Either applied directly, or mixed with saliva, the citrus oils help fight bacterial and fungal infections and repel insects. Their cousins in central Venezuela, the weeper capuchins, like to anoint themselves with the secretions of millipedes, which act as an antiseptic and repel mosquitoes and ticks.

Apes may even resort to recreational drugs. They eat the seeds of Kola (cola) trees, thought to be a pick-me-up of the kind found in coffee. Two hallucinogenic plants are ingested by gorillas in Equatorial Guinea and by chimpanzees in the Republic of Guinea: Alchornea floribunda and A. cordifolia (Euphorbiaceae). The apes even resort to eating the root of Tabernanthe iboga, which contains a chemical called ibogaine which has been studied by doctors for use in detox therapies.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine.shtml

Some have said that human medicine is true medicine because we organise and teach it. But Prof Huffmann has seen a young chimp watch its sick mother take medicine, before trying it itself.

For Prof Andrew Whiten, of St Andrews, an expert on ape culture, it is easy to conclude that the animals can learn symptoms, medicines and dosages from their peers. Take the use of Vernonia amygdalina, the constipation-countering shrub mentioned above. Prof Whiten points out that the chimpanzees are meticulous and careful to discard all but the inner pith. The outer parts are so poisonous that they often kill domestic goats unfamiliar with the forest flora - indeed, it is known as "goat killer" by the Temme people of Sierra Leone.
Last edited by Penguin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Penguin
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:56 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:26 pm

Penguin posted:
Corvids have been recognized worldwide for their high intelligence, which, according to the National Geographic, may even match chimps and gorillas in problem-solving abilities. This means the average crow far surpasses the intelligence of the average Republican.

Thank you for my first coffee-through-nose sinus-cleanse experience of the day! Now, why don't we have an emoticon for that???

LilyPat
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Perelandra » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:51 pm

Thank you Penguin and LPT for the fascinating info. I'm going to buy some bulk peanuts and make friends with the resident corvids.
User avatar
Perelandra
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:12 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Penguin » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:15 pm

Konrad Lorenz wrote somewhere that jackdaws remember people that have hurt one of them, and can point this person out to the whole flock, eventually. And they have a long memory, as a collective. I think he mentioned that swinging around jackdaw-like black objects around them is also not a good idea for the possibility of mistaken malicious intent ;)
Penguin
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:56 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:44 pm

My husband told me about crows who've been shown to recognize people who've pissed them off, even when their tormentor wore a mask. And not just any mask would cause them to attack or avoid the person--it had to be the exact same mask.

BTW, Perelandra, prepare yourself to be trained by your local peanut-craving corvid. My husband says I'm the best-trained human he's ever seen when it comes to responding to a Scrub Jay's demand for peanuts. If we're watching TV or on the computer in one end of the house, I'm often half-way down the hallway before I even notice that I'm heading for the back door, in fact :oops: :roll:

Our city neighborhood now has Ravens, too, but I've been completely unsuccessful in getting their attention so far. And a courting pair of Mockingbirds passed through one winter, but didn't set up housekeeping here, much to my disappointment. But we do have gorgeous Steller's Jays. Only one of them ever showed up as a baby in my yard, but he still brings his much shyer mate by a couple of times a year for peanuts. They do not forget. Here he is, all puffed up against the cold:
Image

LilyPat
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby ShinShinKid » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:01 pm

Lily, try something extremely reflective or shiny!
Put it at the bottom of a cylinder or somewhere else "hard to get to".
Ravens (and Corvids in general) seem to react when their curiosity is piqued; smart animals usually do.
Well played, God. Well played".
User avatar
ShinShinKid
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: Home
Blog: View Blog (26)

Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:28 pm

Thanks, ShinShin--they fly over the yard quite often, but even grapes sitting on the deck railing have failed to get them to visit. I have friends who've tamed them using grapes, so I had high hopes. Love to watch them waddle around on the ground, looking like portly, self-satisfied old gentlemen in shabby, rusty black suits.

Come to think of it, Merlin loved shiny objects too. A few weeks ago I was digging in an old garden bed below the tree where he used to perch to watch me and I found a corroded old miniature boxknife. When it was new, it was chrome-plated and he constantly stole it if I forgot and left it out where he could see it.

LilyPat
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

for the (love of) birds...

Postby marmot » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:45 pm

Here below are some links to some recent Penguin, Hugh and justdrew threads on crows, mockingbirds and ravens - with a TED Talks video thrown in on the amazing intelligence of crows with Joshua Klein:

RI: Crows can use causal reasoning! New study

RI: Mockingbirds bear a grudge against particular people

RI: Flocks of raven on killing spree

<youtube> TEDTalks : The amazing intelligence of crows - Joshua Klein
marmot
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:52 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby marshwren » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:03 pm

Decades ago i was communiting to a job at the Jersey shore, and frequently saw Herring Gulls circling a particular bridge during off-peak traffic hours. They would drop clams onto the road to crack them open, then swoop down, grab the broken shell, and fly off somewhere safe to finish prying it open. Thought it rather clever of them, even if my car got hit on occasion.
marshwren
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:22 pm
Location: outland
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Username » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:06 am

~
Driving down a country road on my way to work one morning last fall, a crow swooped down and dropped something on the road in front of my truck. Not knowing what it was, I avoided running over it, but as I passed, I noticed it was a philbert nut and saw the crow in the rear view mirror examining it as I drove away. That same scene happened several more times, on my way to and from work last year, so those clever birds taught me to crack their nuts for them. I felt like such a tool.




Nordic wrote:Yet so many other birds are so damn stupid. Doves, for instance. Complete idiots. They'll lay their eggs anywhere. Then they break, or fall out of the crappy little nest they make, or predators will get them because the nest will be in a really easily-accessible place. Yet there are tons of doves where I live. I guess it's a numbers game with them, they just lay eggs everywhere and enough of them survive.



Did you know..
"...the mourning dove used to be
called the Carolina Turtledove and doesn't leave its mate."


Neither did I, but you can read about it here -----> Sanford's Second Love After Cheating? Killing birds by Martha Rosenberg.
~
Last edited by Username on Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Username
 
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


Postby Fixx » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:28 am

Penguin wrote:Konrad Lorenz wrote somewhere that jackdaws remember people that have hurt one of them, and can point this person out to the whole flock, eventually. And they have a long memory, as a collective. I think he mentioned that swinging around jackdaw-like black objects around them is also not a good idea for the possibility of mistaken malicious intent ;)


He wrote this in 'Solomon's Ring', a book I can highly recommend reading, both educational and entertaining at the same time.
Fixx
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:04 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 123 guests