Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

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Postby erosoplier » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:09 am

I saw a story (could even have been via RI, maybe it's already been mentioned on this thread but I missed it...) about a city in Japan where (I'm sure it was crows...) the crows not only dropped nuts on the hard paved roads in order to break them, but they dropped them on the pedestrian crossing, because they knew they were endangering their lives doing their business on japanese roads, and had figured out that there was a window of safety provided by the crossing when it was in use by pedestrians.

We only have quick crows in Australia - with all the road kill (kangaroos, possums, etc), all the slow ones are long dead. You can tell they think of us as pests, barreling along at dangerous speeds in our cars like we do, but they tolerate us, because we accidentally provide them with plenty of tucker.
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Postby LilyPatToo » Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:45 pm

Though I generally look upon Sea Gulls as annoying dumbbell birds, the ones who fish Lake Merritt have learned the dropping-shells-onto-pavement trick. Woe betide the walker/jogger/runner who rounds the south edge of the lake where the mussel beds are without casting an eye sky-ward :shock: I've had mussels dropped from such a height that when they hit the sidewalk near me, I got spattered with mussel innards....though now that I think on it, mussels are sort of all innards (excluding their pretty black shells) aren't they? :wink: :P

LilyPat

PS Thanks for the links to those other threads, which I'd missed, marmot.
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Postby marmot » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:20 pm

LilyPatToo wrote:Thanks for the links to those other threads, which I'd missed, marmot.

you're welcome, LilyPat.

Great Thread, btw, this one here..
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Dogs

Postby Penguin » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:21 am

from Slashdot today -

http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/08 ... d-Children

Ponca City, We love you writes
"The Telegraph reports that researchers using tests originally designed to demonstrate the development of language, pre-language and basic arithmetic in human children have found that dogs are capable of understanding up to 250 words and gestures, can count up to five and can perform simple mathematical calculations putting them on par with the average two-year-old child. While most dogs understand simple commands such as sit, fetch and stay, a border collie tested by Professor Coren showed a knowledge of 200 spoken words. 'Obviously we are not going to be able to sit down and have a conversation with a dog, but like a two-year-old, they show that they can understand words and gestures,' says Professor Stanley Coren, a leading expert on canine intelligence at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. Dogs can tell that one plus one should equal two and not one or three,' says Coren, adding that dogs 'can also deliberately deceive, which is something that young children only start developing later in their life.' Coren believes centuries of selective breeding and living alongside humans has helped to hone the intelligence of dogs. 'They may not be Einsteins, but are sure closer to humans than we thought.'"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... ldren.html

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal ... index.html
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby Gnomad » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:26 pm

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/201 ... 6000c.html

Study finds crows can distinguish symbols representing quantities

MAEBASHI (Kyodo) -- A team of researchers said Monday they have found crows can recognize symbols representing different quantities, successfully selecting containers holding hidden food items in experiments when given a choice based only on symbols.

The research by Shoei Sugita, professor of animal morphology at Utsunomiya University, and others has confirmed for the first time in the world crows can distinguish quantities of items, suggesting the birds have the same numerical cognition ability as human beings.

The outcome of the tests involving eight jungle crows was published in the October issue of Animal Behavior, an international journal.

In the experiments, the researchers prepared two containers in a cage, showing the eight crows two sets of quantity symbols on their lids.

The jungle crows were initially presented with the choice between two and five, with only the container bearing the five symbols containing food. The crows were trained to get the food at a 70 percent success rate.

The crows later received tests for non-numerical clues such as element configuration, shape, total filled area and novel sets of quantity involving choices with figures ranging from two to eight.

The eight crows had a 70 to 90 percent success rate choosing the container holding food for 19 of the 20 choices with which they were presented.

Sugita and other researchers have also discovered that crows can distinguish between men's and women's faces, with the research results made public last year. "We want to reveal more about the unknown intelligence of crows," the professor said.

(Mainichi Japan) October 3, 2011


Spotted this on BoingBoing - http://boingboing.net/2011/10/03/counting-crows.html
la nuit de tous approche
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby Asta » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:28 pm

Not to hijack this thread, Parrots are pretty smart as well. I have a young Umbrella Cockatoo, and I bought him a gadget touted as an Einstein Toy to make my bird smart. It's a circular maze that you fill with nuts in the middle and the bird is to try to figure out how to turn the maze to retrieve the food.

Well, that toy lasted about 15 minutes, he figured out (like in the movie War Games) that when he spun it with his beak several times, the seeds would find their way to the opening, and voila, it was snack time.

Another Einstein Game I bought for him, he simply smashed with his beak and ate the prize. Like the moment from the first Indiana Jones movie when he threw down the whip and shot his opponent with a pistol. No brainer.

Birds are smart. They will probably outlive the human race. That thought doesn't bother me.
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby N8wide » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:49 pm

"A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition."
José Bergamín (1923, The Rocket and the Star)


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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby LilyPatToo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:45 am

I interact with Corvids every day--Scrub and Steller's Jays--and while I haven't seen them use physical tools--yet--one of this year's crop of babies that fledged in my yard, a juvenile Steller's Jay, has figured out how to get the feeder all to himself. He hides, does a pitch-perfect imitation of a hawk's cry, waits until the small birds have fled in panic, then flies in and feasts on the seed in solitary splendor. He seems to have way too much time on his hands and now can also imitate a Robin, a Towhee and a Scrub Jay--I swear it's become his hobby. Each time I watch him pull off his little routine, I wonder whether the small birds will ever catch on and whether he would ever have developed his skill if he'd had friends to hang out with. He's got that brilliant loner thing going for him :wink:

They're scary smart creatures with the light of intelligence in their eyes...yet most people pay no attention to them at all.

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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby elfismiles » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:56 am

LilyPatToo wrote:I interact with Corvids every day--Scrub and Steller's Jays--and while I haven't seen them use physical tools--yet--one of this year's crop of babies that fledged in my yard, a juvenile Steller's Jay, has figured out how to get the feeder all to himself. He hides, does a pitch-perfect imitation of a hawk's cry, waits until the small birds have fled in panic, then flies in and feasts on the seed in solitary splendor. He seems to have way too much time on his hands and now can also imitate a Robin, a Towhee and a Scrub Jay--I swear it's become his hobby. Each time I watch him pull off his little routine, I wonder whether the small birds will ever catch on and whether he would ever have developed his skill if he'd had friends to hang out with. He's got that brilliant loner thing going for him :wink:

They're scary smart creatures with the light of intelligence in their eyes...yet most people pay no attention to them at all.

LilyPat


LPT, are you monitoring my life and thoughts?!? :wink Just kidding.

This Monday I was home and discovered a wounded grackle in my driveway. I took him to the local wildlife rescue and they think he'll be okay - a juvenile who probably flew into one of our windows. The mother came around looking for it. Not sure if I can get them to bring him back here for release.

Last night I heard what I thought was a red-tailed hawk doing it's "spook the critters" call. But when I looked I only saw a Blue Jay. I then remembered that I'd recently noticed our local Jays appear to be able to mimic said hawk cry. This prompted me to wonder if this kind of mimicry goes on more than I realize. Texas' State bird is the Mocking bird and of course they can imitate just about anything but they seem to be more like the bird-world's car-alarms ... putting out the most frenetic crazy calls I've ever heard - hardly ever imitating any other birds that I can tell.

But it would seem that what you suggest would be a most excellent adaptation for any bird.

I'd like to find some references to the hawk's cry and its effects on its prey.

Anyway, thanks Gnomad for resurrecting this thread and to all those who've contributed.

Birds are amazing.
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby crikkett » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:23 am

Asta wrote:Not to hijack this thread, Parrots are pretty smart as well. I have a young Umbrella Cockatoo...


I have a military macaw. He uses tools, unties knots, has named clothing 'feathers' and when he finds his way to our roof, he shrewdly negotiates terms for coming down (a walk, a treat, etc).

His newest wonder just happened this summer: he's swapped calls with neighboring crows and jays - he imitates their calls, they imitate him, and then I'm called outside to toss nuts to everyone.

I'm not projecting.
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby Stephen Morgan » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:30 am

Saw a dead crow not long ago. All flopped on the floor next to an ancient church. This one:

Image

St Mary le Wigford. Seemed to be laying on its front. Probably ended up in a landfill.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby LilyPatToo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:50 pm

elfismiles wrote:
LilyPatToo wrote:I interact with Corvids every day--Scrub and Steller's Jays--and while I haven't seen them use physical tools--yet--one of this year's crop of babies that fledged in my yard, a juvenile Steller's Jay, has figured out how to get the feeder all to himself. He hides, does a pitch-perfect imitation of a hawk's cry, waits until the small birds have fled in panic, then flies in and feasts on the seed in solitary splendor. He seems to have way too much time on his hands and now can also imitate a Robin, a Towhee and a Scrub Jay--I swear it's become his hobby. Each time I watch him pull off his little routine, I wonder whether the small birds will ever catch on and whether he would ever have developed his skill if he'd had friends to hang out with. He's got that brilliant loner thing going for him :wink:

They're scary smart creatures with the light of intelligence in their eyes...yet most people pay no attention to them at all.

LilyPat


LPT, are you monitoring my life and thoughts?!? :wink Just kidding.

This Monday I was home and discovered a wounded grackle in my driveway. I took him to the local wildlife rescue and they think he'll be okay - a juvenile who probably flew into one of our windows. The mother came around looking for it. Not sure if I can get them to bring him back here for release.

Last night I heard what I thought was a red-tailed hawk doing it's "spook the critters" call. But when I looked I only saw a Blue Jay. I then remembered that I'd recently noticed our local Jays appear to be able to mimic said hawk cry. This prompted me to wonder if this kind of mimicry goes on more than I realize. Texas' State bird is the Mocking bird and of course they can imitate just about anything but they seem to be more like the bird-world's car-alarms ... putting out the most frenetic crazy calls I've ever heard - hardly ever imitating any other birds that I can tell.

But it would seem that what you suggest would be a most excellent adaptation for any bird.

I'd like to find some references to the hawk's cry and its effects on its prey.

Anyway, thanks Gnomad for resurrecting this thread and to all those who've contributed.

Birds are amazing.


Well, I'll be...I had no idea it was "a jay thing"--! Fascinating, thanks for posting that. Corvids rock!

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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby 82_28 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:52 pm

I bought a copy of "In the Company of Crows and Ravens" when it came out a number of years ago. In fact, I just dug it out and am going to re-read. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Company-Crows-Rav ... 0300100760

It was written by a couple of UW corvid researchers and comes highly recommended. Seattle is crow town USA and not a day goes by that I do not try and commune with one, talk to one, wonder what it is doing and thinking. I would love to have one as a friend.

From Publishers Weekly
Historically feared, hunted and otherwise maligned, corvids (crows, ravens and the like) have finally found in the coauthors two champions of their cause. Professor Marzluff and artist and writer Angell, in their decades of observing crows and ravens (Angell's illustrations complement the text), have compiled an eye-popping catalogue of crow feats: Japanese carrion crows use moving cars as nutcrackers; Seattle crows, after being trapped by the authors, have learned to avoid them, even in the midst of thousands of UW-students; and, given the choice between french fries in a plain bag or a McDonald's bag, crows choose the branded bag every time. Marzluff and Angell entertain with these stories, but find less success with their arguments that no other animal has been as influential to human culture, and the two species have been for centuries involved in a "cultural coevolution." In essence, shifts in our culture cause crows to adapt, and in response, our culture responds, ad infinitum. They provide a litany of examples of crow influences on human culture (think Counting Crows, cave art and doctors dressed up as crows during the Black Death) and point to the similarities between human and crow cultures (particularly that of social learning) as evidence for the book's unofficial maxim: "to know the crow is to know ourselves." While the claims made here may over-reach, Marzluff and Angell passionately argue crows' importance, and along the way, provide ample evidence of corvid ingenuity.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
From Booklist
Crows are one of the few birds that everyone can recognize. As ubiquitous members of the worldwide corvid family (which also includes the ravens, jays, magpies, and their kin), the more than 40 distinct species of crows have formed both practical and mythic relationships with their human neighbors. In this delightful blend of science, art, and anthropology, biologist Marzluff and illustrator Angell, both fascinated by the corvids, demonstrate why the crows and ravens are worthy of study and respect. Crows and ravens are adaptable, intelligent, and able to learn, remember, and use insight to solve problems. They use unique methods to obtain food, such as pulling up the lines of ice fishermen and rolling walnuts under car wheels. Humans have long noted these large, black, brainy birds, and their images have entered human culture (we "eat crow," open things with a "crowbar") and human mythology (the Norse god Odin was guided by two ravens). The text travels easily from science to folklore to literature, which, along with Angell's lively black-and-white illustrations, recommends this book highly.


A good comment about the book:

This review is from: In the Company of Crows and Ravens (Hardcover)
"Gregarious, family grouped, long-lived, diurnal, vocally and visually astute, and reliant on memory and individual recognition." Yes, that might be a biological description of us humans, but it's a description from _In the Company of Crows and Ravens_ (Yale University Press) by John M. Marzluff and Tony Angell. We share those traits with the birds that are the subject of this fine book, mostly because we, like they, have big brains and use them. Dolphins and humans have bigger brain-to-body ratios, but the crow and raven ratio is something like that of most primates: "Mentally, crows and ravens are more like flying monkeys than they are like other birds." As a result, we have had a richer history of cooperating with these corvids (the family also includes rooks, jackdaws, and magpies) and competing against them. As a measure of our attention to these birds, for instance, this wide-ranging book cites their influence on our language; cats and dogs have more words, but no wild animal has more than crows and ravens. The examples include scarecrow, crow's feet, crowbar, and ravenous. We also crow about good news, but we also from time to time have to eat crow. We say "as the crow flies" when we want to indicate a linear distance between geographical points, but that's out of ignorance: crows take breaks and (as befits birds with brains) get distracted to check out other routes along the way. Crows and ravens have been our partners throughout history, and this broad and brightly-written book will increase anyone's appreciation for them and for the partnership.

Crows and ravens are scavengers on what humans throw out; so are pigeons and seagulls, for that matter, but those aren't as intelligent or observant as corvids. They could have managed in the wild without humans, but they have been able to thrive in our towns and cities. People who admire crows and ravens generally do so because they have a reputation for being clever, or even sagacious. There are many examples given here of intelligent behavior. Crows have a good communication system, and the authors encourage you to try playing mind games with them by broadcasting commercially-available recordings of crow calls. Crows who hear a distress call, for instance, do not immediately fly away from the call; instead, they fly to it to investigate what is going on, and perhaps learn about the danger. After that, they may stay away for weeks. As befits animals with intelligence, crows play; they may play catch with paper or sticks for no reason except that it seems to be an enjoyable way to spend time. They deliberately climb snowy hills to sled down again on their bellies, and they do this repeatedly. They do rolls, dives, and loops when flying. Crows even use us to do their bidding. In Sendai, northern Japan, carrion crows don't just use gravity to crack the walnuts of which they are fond. They have learned to fly down in front of cars waiting for a stoplight to change, place the nut in front of a wheel, and then fly away to await the result of the human-driven nutcracker. The crows are changing human behavior; drivers in the area intentionally drive over nuts in the road just to help the crows out.

This book makes clear the surprising case that crows have a culture, one that we modify a great deal, while they have made their own modifications on ours by behavior that gets them included in our stories and legends (and, of course, making nut-crackers of us). It invites readers to make their own observations and send them to the authors; corvids are so ubiquitous that almost anyone can take them up on the offer. Marzluff is a professor in wildlife science, and Angell is a freelance artist and writer whose handsome drawings make this a particularly good-looking volume. They even hint that interaction with us is making crows smarter: "We suggest they are becoming smarter because learning, memory, and cultural evolution are so strongly favored by an increasingly complex urban lifestyle." Take up this book and help keep up our side of the race.


I may try and broadcast some crow calls eventually to see what happens.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby 82_28 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:25 pm

Well, I searched the thread and couldn't find the account about crow intelligence I thought I relayed here once.

Here's a pretty interesting story though. I think it was what spurred me to buy that book above actually.

I had just gotten off work. It was a very blustery day, probably sometime in November if I recall as to the position of the Sun in the sky and when I normally got off (4:30PM). Anyhow, these crows were all lined up atop a fairly tall building facing the wind, the Barnes and Noble in University Village.

(Which synchronistically picklepizza IMed me that the same BN is going to close as I was writing that exact above sentence! The place I bought the book. WTF?)

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... e-to-close

So again, anyhow, the crows noted a vortex in the wind, I assume, as it blew into the tall wall of the Barnes and Noble and were literally taking turns doing tricks in the vortex. One by one, they would take off almost completely horizontally, go to a height perhaps three times that of the perhaps 4 story tall building and then dive, flip, basically just do tricks for each other. One at a time. It reminded me of skaters of the skateboard persuasion. Then once the dive was done he or she would line up with the other crows and all would watch the next one take off. One at a time. I found it amazing, needless to say.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Crows' fabled ingenuity shines in intelligence tests.

Postby vanlose kid » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:48 pm



*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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