'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

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Postby barracuda » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:47 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:Bad hugh. He's also pretty good at disappearing when thoughtful questions from skeptics are put to him. Makes it seem like he's really only interested in a one way dialogue. For instance, Barracuda can probably wait forever and Hugh is not going to answer his questions about the OP. And BTW, the OP is easily one of the weakest arguments I've seen Hugh make. It's on a par with his most hairbrained ideas. I certainly understand the occasional accusations of disinfo, but I still think they ought to be policed in the same manner. Frankly, I too wish Hugh would just stay the hell out of threads like: Abduction account…from over 300 years ago? I guess he just doesn't understand that the authoritarian tone with which he writes is irritating and stifles discussion.


Brainpanhandler, as much as I enjoy Hugh's ideas, I have no interest in optioning my availability for a CIA-coated folie à plusieurs regarding the interpretation of either literary works or larger cultural issues. I have my own brand of madness to fall back upon in these matters, and my delusions are too developed and involved to be significantly altered by a new adherance to the musings of our resident psuedo-iconoclast and tunnel-visionary. My accusations of disinformation, mis-information, or simply lack of information stand in this case, though. It's hard to imagine a worse target of Hugh's invective of being a fascist enabler than Dahl, a man who was literally fighting for his life against the German war machine during the darkest hours of Britain's struggle against Hitler, and had become an air ace flying Hawker Hurricanes versus the Luftwaffe before the U.S. had even entered hostilities.

Image

Not that this is the perfect resume for anti-war activism, but if you espouse fighting fascists, one very direct and forthright way to do it in those days (1940-41) was behind the stick of a single-seat fighter aircraft over the European countryside.

Now it's easy to imagine any number of readers following along with this discussion, reading in two separate threads Hugh's assertion that Dahl was a fascist, and blandly nodding their assent, as it appears that many readers do, judging by the kindly words spoken in Hugh's behalf by any number of his small cadre of supporters, defenders and sychophants. And some of those persons may have never read or even heard of Sometime Never (the first book published in America about the possibility of nuclear war) or Fantastic Mr. Fox - the book, not the movie - which is another of Dahl's many humorous tales of a fight against mean and terrible forces being won by clever and underestimated small creatures. In which case, a great injustice has been done, not just to Dahl's reputation amongst those of us who choose to champion Hugh, but also by those who might accept his notion regarding Dahl, and pass this misbegotten judgement on to others by dint of conversation or attitude. And for that, and Hugh's great and obviously embarrassed silence when challenged on it, a rousing Bronx cheer and a great big hale and hearty "Fuck You!" is definitely in order, and sincerely called for. Call it what you will, Hugh has a responsibility here, which he has thrust upon himself after 8000 posts, to hold to a certain standard of assininity which doesn't simply lead his readers astray due to laziness, lying, or feigning lassitude. The "fight against fascism" on this particular forum is ill-served by such tactics. I'm not even going to get into what I think of his various disintegrated theories disguised as facts and dressed up in the frilly panties of scientific nomenclature.

I do think it's interesting that none of us know what Hugh's political affiliations are beyond "anti-fascist"; that he can tell us he's too tired to answer questions because of his six hour speaking engagement at a political fundraiser, and it's sort of glossed over by the class; and that there are all kinds of groups who espouse antifascism that you or I might not willingly link arms with. I like to know whose flag I'm waving.
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Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:13 pm

Noted and I confess my total ignorance of Dahl so keep that in mind when I say that fascists can of course fight fascists. Simply fighting fascists does not mean ipso facto that one isn't one.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Postby barracuda » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:24 am

I agree, brain, which is the point of the last paragraph of my post above.
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Postby brainpanhandler » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:03 am

barracuda wrote:
Hugh wrote:and also negative framing of the color green since the Green Party had just been officially formed in Europe in '79 and was growing off the environmental movement.


This statement is pure woo, that is to say, it is an assumption without basis in any facts whatsoever. The color green has a millenium-long association with evil, envy, jealousy, sickness and death that has been exploited by artists since, ohh... forever. Are we to take it on faith that any Hollywood movie since 1979 featuring a green monster is making a conscious effort to work against the Green Party?

Image



These kinds of scattershot faux-ssociations have contributed to the overall weakness of this particular piece of Hugh-pocrypha, and by their ridiculousness tends to work against your central argument. Not your best work, Hugh. Thanks for the post, though.



Alright then, this thread really probably ought to die since Hugh has apparently abandoned it.

But what are we left to conclude about Hugh, if anything? I mean you are being very restrained when you say, "These kinds of scattershot faux-ssociations have contributed to the overall weakness of this particular piece of Hugh-pocrypha, and by their ridiculousness tends to work against your central argument. Not your best work, Hugh." That's an understatement at best.

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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby Telexx » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:13 am

Telexx wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Telexx wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Original 'Gremlins' author Roald Dahl later wrote Cold War propaganda for kidz, just like Brit spook Ian Fleming who wrote 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.'


...you are not demonstrating how Fleming and Dahl are alike (the fact that Dahl worked on material with Fleming does not equal Dahl is like Flaming.)

I detect fan defensiveness.


- Lost performative (judgment where the basis for the judgment (I'm a fan) is not stated). (PS: I'm not a fan of Dahl).

- Nominalisation of the word 'defensiveness' (turning the process of being defensive into an object as so to ascribe negative attributes to me without having to express them, e.g. 'you would challenge my logically impoverished statements, after all you're a defensive fan)...

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:One MI6 guy working on another MI6 guy's 'James Bond' screenplay AND
a psyops script for kidz (Chitty) almost 20 years after WWII...justifies my statement.


- Another lost performative. You're not providing evidence, you're just stating how working together means Fleming and Dahl are alike (this fact alone 'justifies my statement')...

In truth, all you're doing is demonstrating that Dahl and Fleming operated in the same circles. To state they are alike without comparing motives, ambitions, personalities, beleifs, values, etc, etc, etc is meaningless.

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Don't you find it remarkable that both MI6 guys, Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl, wrote Cold War-era stories for kidz that equated factories and capitalism with...candy? Talk about sugar-coating fascism.


More complex equivalence! Factories, and capitalism, do not equal fascism! To write a story set in a factory does not equal writing 'cold war propaganda'. Can you provide evidence, Hugh that specifically supports this assertion that Dahl wrote 'cold war propaganda'??

In truth Dahl was a complex man, and I'm not defending his character, I'm just pointing out that holes in your reasoning.

Kthx,

Telexx


Thread abandoned, with questions unanswered...

Hugh asserts that:

1. 'Original 'Gremlins' author Roald Dahl later wrote Cold War propaganda for kidz'.

2. This assertion is based on the fact that Dahl moved in similar circles to Ian Fleming, and...

3. They both wrote stories that equated factories and capitalism with...candy... (which apparently equals sugar-coating fascism).

It's facile reasoning at best.

Kthx,

Telexx
Me: Take your meta-model questions, and shove them up your arse.

Pedant #1: How, specfically, should I do that.

Me: FFS! Aiiieee. I don't care. Kthx.
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby psynapz » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:20 pm

Telexx wrote:Kthx,

Telexx
_________________
Me: Take your meta-model questions, and shove them up your arse.

Pedant #1: How, specfically, should I do that.

Me: FFS! Aiiieee. I don't care. Kthx.

Well this thread's been fully derailed (hippocrites), so I guess this is as good a time and place for this as any other...

Telexx... I love you man. The sig's got to go. Please? It Image's on me more every time I see it, and like a train wreck in sig form, I just can't seem to ever look away. It's become a form of psychotronic torture. Please man. Come up with something else. Preferably not in playscript dialogue format.

Thanks buddy.

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Image

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Cheers,
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby barracuda » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:39 pm

psynapz wrote:Well this thread's been fully derailed (hippocrites)...


In what way has this thread been derailed, psynapz? If you look at this particular page, every single post but yours is dealing directly with the original post. As an aside, did you mean Hippocrates?

I like Telexx' sig line.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Postby nathan28 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:49 pm

barracuda wrote:that he can tell us he's too tired to answer questions because of his six hour speaking engagement at a political fundraiser, and it's sort of glossed over by the class


HMWs is Dave Emory posting in character?
„MAN MUSS BEFUERCHTEN, DASS DAS GANZE IN GOTTES HAND IST"

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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby psynapz » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:48 pm

barracuda wrote:In what way has this thread been derailed, psynapz? If you look at this particular page, every single post but yours is dealing directly with the original post. As an aside, did you mean Hippocrates?

I must have! Point taken. I am evidently the real hypocrite here for going OT with this.

barracuda wrote:I like Telexx' sig line.

You don't find the incessant "kthx" even a little obnoxious by now? I think signing-off every post impedes the flow of discussion on a communcations platform that permits time-independent, asynchronous, open-ended conversations which, by definition, do not require each participant's latest contribution to either begin "Hello Dear Sirs, to whom it may concern" or end "Regrettably yours, TLF, hugs & kisses, kthxbye, TTFN". We don't have to say hello or goodbye. We just have to say what we're thinking.

So is Telexx always really thinking "Kay, thanks..." ? If so, why?

Here, I'll try it myself now at the end of this very post with a paraphrasing of what Telexx's signoff looks like in my diseased mind every time I see it:

Eat my steaming shit if you don't like it. Toodles,
- psynapz
“blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project” - Hugh Manatee Wins
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby IanEye » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:27 pm

psynapz wrote::
Eat my steaming shit if you don't like it. Toodles,
- psynapz


dude, that is an awesome sigline. you should keep that until they change theirs...
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby barracuda » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:12 pm

IanEye wrote:dude, that is an awesome sigline.


Agreed. It has that certain je ne sais pas quoi, mais il pourrait être l'odeur.
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:35 pm

psynapz wrote:Eat my steaming shit if you don't like it. Toodles,


I'm with 'cuda and Ianeye - thats fucken awesome.
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm

Telexx wrote:
Telexx wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Telexx wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Original 'Gremlins' author Roald Dahl later wrote Cold War propaganda for kidz, just like Brit spook Ian Fleming who wrote 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.'


...you are not demonstrating how Fleming and Dahl are alike (the fact that Dahl worked on material with Fleming does not equal Dahl is like Flaming.)

I detect fan defensiveness.


- Lost performative (judgment where the basis for the judgment (I'm a fan) is not stated). (PS: I'm not a fan of Dahl).

- Nominalisation of the word 'defensiveness' (turning the process of being defensive into an object as so to ascribe negative attributes to me without having to express them, e.g. 'you would challenge my logically impoverished statements, after all you're a defensive fan)...

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:One MI6 guy working on another MI6 guy's 'James Bond' screenplay AND
a psyops script for kidz (Chitty) almost 20 years after WWII...justifies my statement.


- Another lost performative. You're not providing evidence, you're just stating how working together means Fleming and Dahl are alike (this fact alone 'justifies my statement')...

In truth, all you're doing is demonstrating that Dahl and Fleming operated in the same circles. To state they are alike without comparing motives, ambitions, personalities, beleifs, values, etc, etc, etc is meaningless.

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Don't you find it remarkable that both MI6 guys, Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl, wrote Cold War-era stories for kidz that equated factories and capitalism with...candy? Talk about sugar-coating fascism.


More complex equivalence! Factories, and capitalism, do not equal fascism! To write a story set in a factory does not equal writing 'cold war propaganda'. Can you provide evidence, Hugh that specifically supports this assertion that Dahl wrote 'cold war propaganda'??

In truth Dahl was a complex man, and I'm not defending his character, I'm just pointing out that holes in your reasoning.

Kthx,

Telexx


Thread abandoned, with questions unanswered...

Hugh asserts that:

1. 'Original 'Gremlins' author Roald Dahl later wrote Cold War propaganda for kidz'.

2. This assertion is based on the fact that Dahl moved in similar circles to Ian Fleming, and...

3. They both wrote stories that equated factories and capitalism with...candy... (which apparently equals sugar-coating fascism).

It's facile reasoning at best.

Kthx,

Telexx


Telexx, cheers for your elegant robust metamodelling - I did something similar with Hugh around the Dean Radin research that he dismissed, with a similar lack of replies.

I find Hugh very baffling. He is seems on the one hand a dyed-in-the-wool reductionist materialist, yet his own 'critical thinking' has massive gaps in it.

He also has researched topics like propaganda and the interface between intel and media, with great depth. Sometimes I think there is a 'transduction' problem between the amount and depth of information he knows in his area of expertise and the audience here on R.I. - I had great empathy with him on several occasions, when he was getting 'pelted with rotten tomatoes' and kept going with grace.

Yet when something comes along outside his worldview (or even just at the edge of it), he is quite happy to pour a bucket of bile over it, or just stick his fingers in his ears and go 'lalala'.

I don't get angry and upset over it any more; my quest to get an answer to his Dean Radin objections seemed to turn into a 'Roger and Me' thing :)

I am also baffled that he doesn't have his own site, given how tenaciously he posts here, doesn't seem to post anywhere else, disses people from the movie industry with 'critical thinking bloopers'. He also seems extremely tight with any personal information or even just stuff like 'I like music by x,y,z', which again puzzles me.
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Postby Zap » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:43 pm

Maybe he only lets other aspects of his interests & personality come out under other screen names.
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Re: 'Gremlins' - WWIIDisney/Vietnam/Plum decoy by Spielberg

Postby barracuda » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:17 pm

Searcher08 wrote:I am also baffled that he ...doesn't seem to post anywhere else...


Sure he does. Hijack a few of his key words and phrases sometime for a google search, if you've the time and inclination. But don't tell anyone I told you to.
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