Horrorcore rapper faces murder charges.

[Maddy]

Bruegal



Bosch



I wonder how many murders these two pieces caused or were blamed for causing?

[OP ED]

So ART must compel decisons and doing or it is not art. Art must be functionally useless, in a physical sense. It must successfully transmit meaning. And it must demonstrate an as yet undefined ethics, except to say that glorifying violence is not a part of that ethos. For someone averse to restrictions you seem to apply a lot of restrictions.

that's silly, and demonstrates your reason's tendency to think of things as lists of qualifiers that could fit a spreadsheet analysis.

Art does transmit meaning and is considered a distinct quality from any physical function an object itself may hold. All the rest of my "restrictions" as you put it, are implied in the transmission of meaning. i.e. what sort of meaning is transmitted?

restrictions implies a prescriptive, my definitions are rather descriptive.

["are" not "should"]

["does" not "must"]

...

I'm contemplating whether that qualifies as art for you.

it serves no physical functions aside from the aesthetic functions and communicates a form of meaning, therefore, yes.

I was more interested on your views wrt appealing to the authority of the creator of a given work, namely asking me what my own poetry means.

poet literally means "creator" y'know.

asking a poet about their authority is like asking God why he made the world. I suppose i could ask a literary critic what your meanings are, but i've never had much use for intermediaries.

[the creator is the final authority on the creation]

...

It seems this is only true if you yourself never change. I don't think there is no accounting for taste, it's just that the only accounting that matters is your own.

that's the same thing.

and whether or not i change has nothing to do with the poet's intentions and performance, only my view of them. the song remains the same.

...

and as judged by not crazy and not dumb fellow human beings.

indeed. we use the term "impaired judgement" for a reason.

...

I can agree with this: "Art is both useless in a functional sense and the most important human activity." But can only wish this was true: "These are the things of value which define humanity itself."

your following statement implies agreement with both, although to my view they're exactly the same thing.

We are creators if nothing else.

...

While I am reluctant take a cue from fascists about the relative importance of art in the grand scheme of things, including such mundane things as eating and breathing, it is worth noting as did C2W that fascists pretty universally consider rounding up the subversive artists a fairly high priority item on their list of things to do.

It's a thought prvoking thesis.

my analysis is actually supplied primarily by the post-existentialism of Camus, personally.

the point isn't that eating or breathing are not important, but that they aren't solely human activities. Animals can engage in the functional physical rebellion againt the tyranny of nature, and do every day they live. Only creators can oppose the nature of nature itself in its symbolic forms. It is a form of rebellion that is distinctly human, and from which most of our forms of outright physical rebellion ultimately derive their meaning insofar as philosophies themselves, as the fascists demand, are elaborations of aesthetics. i.e. "No Artist tolerates reality"

Well, ya, but wondering and deciding are two very distinct things. They're not very alike at all.

maybe to the slaves of reason.

your wonder, to me, was the decision that the Mona Lisa compelled you to make.

I can understand how you would say this if you believe that metaphysical rebellion is the only sort of rebellion worth having.

indeed.

...

As long as it is easily graspable.

your problem is that you think "truth" is an object that can fit on a spreadsheet somewhere, or at least this is how your opinion of it comes across. if you think this, you will never find it.

i am discussing particular truths, i.e. truths communicated in particular circumstances by particular artistic expressions. there is no general truth.

Your art appreciation paradigm is composed of interlocking definitions and value laden terms and I'd like to avoid killing you by death of a thousand questions. Understood.

indeed.

I suppose I would align myself closer to the Tolstoy quote in the wiki article than you do.

you might think so.

but it would hardly be possible. my definition and his are only different in their framing. in fact, his writings on the subject heavily informed my own opinions on a great many things, art not least among them. My entire definition is implied in his quote. With the understanding that, due to typological personality differences, i'd think of it in terms of "thoughts" rather than "feelings" in most cases. This distinction is entirely personal though, and doesn't affect the general acceptance of the notions involved.

I would never think of denying your right to declare it so for yourself.

feel free to find some "facts" that demonstrate that violence is glorious and i'll consider revising my opinion.

[lightningBugout]

Art does transmit meaning and is considered a distinct quality from any physical function an object itself may hold.

What does "transmit meaning" mean and from where are you getting this typology that delineates between "physical function" and artiness? I'm surprised to see OP ED cast such a sort of positivist ontology.

[Percival]

Syko Sam obsessed with Son of Sam?

New and chilling details are surfacing about the Castro Valley man who is accused of killing four people in Farmville, Virginia. Auhorities found their bodies in a quaint Dutch Colonial home in the rural college town about 50 miles southwest of Richmond last Friday.

Richard "Sammy" McCroskey III, an aspiring rapper in the little-known horrorcore genre, sits in a East Coast jail facing charges in the quadruple homicide.

Among the dead is 16-year-old Emma Niederbrock, who was romantically-linked to McCroskey. Emma's parents, Mark Niederbrock and Debra Kelly and Emma's friend, Melanie Wells, were also killed.

The motive for the killings remains unclear.

"Syko Sam" Video, Bedroom Show Disturbing Obsessions

WATCH "Syko Sam" Video, Bedroom Show Disturbing Obsessions
McCroskey's sister, Sarah, described him as a kind person who never fought back when people picked on him.

"He was extremely passive," Sara said, "so just hearing that my brother is the main suspect just really blows my mind."

McCroskey's father played guitar in a band called S&M. Sarah McCroskey says the family was not a "lovey-dovey ... 'Leave It To Beaver' kind of family." She said she thought something might be wrong after she heard a voice mail her brother left at the family's house last Thursday that ended with "I love you guys."

McCroskey posted video of his Castro Valley, California bedroom just three weeks ago. His walls are plastered with posters that celebrate bloody, gory imagery of music centered on killing, suicide and violence. Family members said he spent most of his time in his room on his computer.

Alameda County authorities searched that home before dawn Monday, taking with them a computer and more than a dozen paper bags full of evidence.

McCroskey was known as "Syko Sam" to the Web world because of what is being described as an obsession with notorious serial killer "Son of Sam." His MySpace page features his raps about killing, maiming and mutilating people. On his YouTube channel, McCroskey goes under the name "Lil Demon Dog." That is another reference to serial killer David Berkowitz.

He also posted a video of himself after he flipped over a cross on the grave of a U.S. Marine.

On Tuesday, a woman known as "Kinky Suicide" sent a message to McCroskey that read, "i dont know what to think... i thought u loved her... u said u loved me 2.. u would of killed Me too wouldent you?! you had the chance u had the oppertunitys Why them i dont understand!? this isnt like u!"

As deputies escorted McCroskey to the police station Saturday after his arrest at the Richmond airport, McCroskey was asked by a reporter why he did it. He said, "Jesus told me to do it," WRIC television reported.

McCroskey has not cooperated with police since his arrest on Saturday. Police found him napping in the baggage area of an airport waiting to fly back home to the Bay Area.

Police said there was no indication anyone else was involved and would not say when the victims died.

A judge has set a preliminary hearing for Jan. 11, and Prince Edward County Commonwealth's Attorney James Ennis said prosecutors needed the extra time to look over the evidence.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-be ... 32532.html

[OP ED]

Art does transmit meaning and is considered a distinct quality from any physical function an object itself may hold.

What does "transmit meaning" mean and from where are you getting this typology that delineates between "physical function" and artiness? I'm surprised to see OP ED cast such a sort of positivist ontology.

positivist? heh.

positivism doesn't even believe in metaphysical rebellion.

to the revaluations inherent in active nihilism, only art can transmit value, i.e. as the only solely human activity, all human value judgements are utlimately dependent on its forms for their validation.

[art is fascism]

the naturalistic positions of the slaves of reason posit that all meaning is derived from the senses, which inherently limits art to mundanity, or mediocrity, that is, it attempts to insist on the physical properties of an artistic object, its qualities, as its whole transmission. it regards the medium as the end and the means.

[by glorifying sense based "reason" over metaphysics, that is the appearance over the vision, the nazis, therefore, are not fascists]

[hence their near uniformly shitty art]

it insists on an ultimate seperation of the creator from the creation. it relies on a defintion of art that replaces projection with reflection.

[barracuda]

Very good. The work of art carries an aura with it, which is transmitted via the sense of art to the spine, resulting in a tingling sensation at the base of the skull. In many ways it can be said that art is something that happens to you, rather than something you happen to do or see. In this way it's true that the object itself may be merely the container for the properties of the thing we call art, and a rather leaky container at that. Anything can be art, it must simply contain those properties.

I wasn't attempting to provide a comprehensive definition of "great" as it applies to "art". But this might prove one of those axes around which we will go in circles. Just to take the most obvious example in the history of art...

La Gioconda is a fine example of what I mean. There are a variety of circumstances surrounding the painting and its provenance which have contributed to its current prestige among thousands of vastly similar works, and above virtually all other works on earth. First and most importantly, the painting we know as La Gioconda has been chosen by art historians, curators and police detectives as being the one true and authentic representation of Lisa Gherardini, the wife of Francesco del Giocondo produced by Leo da Vinci from among dozens of possible challengers for that title. It is by no means necessarily so.Rising challengers to the title of da Vinci's masterwork have been hammered down like offending floor-nails. And that is not even going into the likelyhood that the Louvre doesn't risk putting a billion dollar painting on public display in full glare of flash photography and artificial lighting, and that viewers to the museum are looking at a copy.



The decision that the painting in the Louvre constituted the original was originally primarily a financial decision, as a justification for the hubbub and attendant honors accorded the picture by the French state.

The Louvre version, despite being nearly universally qualified as existing in superb condition, has extensive damage. A goodly portion of the picture has been simply cut off from either side. The lower half of the painting was splashed by acid in 1956. Severe discoloration of the varnish has turned the skin tones green. The colors overall have lost most of their original brightness. There is good evidence that much of the fine detail of the painting, for example the eyebrows, has been lost, either due to enthusiastic cleaning (which has occurred several times) or simply technical problems on the painter's part. So the image we look at is a very, very degraded version of the original work, even if we are accepting that this is by da Vinci's hand, which is unclear.

The paintings international fame and acclaim came to it when it was stolen from the gallery in 1911. At that time, pictures of the Mona Lisa were plastered on every newspaper in the world, just a few years after the introduction into the media of halftone engraving of photos. Thus, due to the theft, the picture became rather quickly the most reproduced image in the history of images.

My point here is that the allure of La Gioconda rests at least equally on the aura of mystique it carries from provenance and the subjective "beauty" of the work itself. That this mystique happens to mesh nicely with the needs of the French national museum is a neat coincidence for the owners.

Listening again to "The Voice" by Syko Sam, I am utterly certain that the song is different now than it was when he recorded it. It has, in fact, aquired a different aura.

[Percival]

http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

This guys says this was all a planned santanic cult killing with the SKR record dude behind it all. Says he was part of the group leading up to this.


Sam McCrosky aka "Syko Sam" aka "Lil Demon"
SAM McCROSKY WAS ONLY FOLLOWING THE DICTATES OF A SATANIC CULT. MY NAME IS PAUL CALCAGNO AND THIS IS WHAT I KNOW:

[lightningBugout]

Art does transmit meaning and is considered a distinct quality from any physical function an object itself may hold.

What does "transmit meaning" mean and from where are you getting this typology that delineates between "physical function" and artiness? I'm surprised to see OP ED cast such a sort of positivist ontology.

positivism doesn't even believe in metaphysical rebellion.

Thusly it is a profound, profound form of metaphysical rebellion. The highest order in fact. All those deities and spirits denied recognition. Pissed off enough to possess little wannabe thugz? Maybe. (kidding, mostly)

to the revaluations inherent in active nihilism, only art can transmit value, i.e. as the only solely human activity, all human value judgements are utlimately dependent on its forms for their validation.

how in the world do we assess the artistic apparent non-intent in animal behavior (much less plants or minerals)? do i take aesthetic pleasure in a beehive solely because it is a highly accomplished functional form? how does it transmit its meaning to me?

the naturalistic positions of the slaves of reason posit that all meaning is derived from the senses, which inherently limits art to mundanity, or mediocrity, that is, it attempts to insist on the physical properties of an artistic object, its qualities, as its whole transmission. it regards the medium as the end and the means.

Not sure about that at all. Sense-derived meaning does not necessarily lead to representation as good or bad mirror, does it?

What puzzled me about your earlier post is this - if art is negatively conceived by its lack of necessary physical function but it acts as a transmitter of meaning, then that meaning is "transmitted" how? non-physically?

[Percival]

Saw this on the comment section:

Anonymous said...
im hearing that a chick by the name of RAZAKEL? asked this kid SAM to kill these 2 poor girls because they slept with sicktanick after some concert they just had, anyone heard of this? supposedly Razakel is also a rapper that dates sickfaggot and is on SKR...and raps about the same stuff MAYBE worse then her counterpart sicktanick



I looked this up on youtube its a video of sicktanick and razakel showing off their home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6-2wXKJ ... re=related


I am starting to wonder of Sam was ordered to do these killings.

[Percival]

Fuck you guys should take this art BS somewhere else.

Keep the thread on topic, this is an interesting case here.

[barracuda]

Percy, you should read the conversation a bit more closely. Two of your posts on this page have already been discussed upthread around page three.

[Percival]

Percy, you should read the conversation a bit more closely. Two of your posts on this page have already been discussed upthread around page three.

I would be glad too if it werent so off topic.

Carry on.

[Percival]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGvp55M5 ... re=related

Team Death video, which is Sicktanick and Razakel's group.

[Percival]

Also of interest this Razakel, who I am beginning to believe plays the role of high preistess in this cult, just released an album last month called FEMICIDE, and now these 2 girls are murdered?

[OP ED]

sorry, but i'll believe in elephant art when one paints something without a human standing next to it telling it what to do.

...

(whereas anyone with children can attest to the fact that abstract representative art is innate in humans, you don't have to tell them to draw things with their food)

...

Keep the thread on topic, this is an interesting case here.

from a detroit-centric POV, that is, mine, not really. this sort of shit happens all the time here. its only on your news because it doesn't happen in virginia very often.

same olde same olde. Detroit invents a musical genre and the californians ruin it...

acid rap is 1980s motherfuckers.




...

Not sure about that at all. Sense-derived meaning does not necessarily lead to representation as good or bad mirror, does it?

that's a positivist definition of the mechanism of art. all sensory derived, i.e. all reflection.

memory vs. inspiration. there is no room for the divine in positivist thinking, literally, because it refuses to acknowledge its existence. Which is why positivist art can only very rarely [and accidentally as it were] transcend the mundane.

the nazis had books and books of measurement values for proportion and coloration and other "qualities" associated with aesthetics, but completely lacked any ability to recognize beauty right in front of them.

What puzzled me about your earlier post is this - if art is negatively conceived by its lack of necessary physical function but it acts as a transmitter of meaning, then that meaning is "transmitted" how? non-physically?

problem is you're emphasizing physicality instead of functionality.

its the difference between a beaver using a rock as a table and my sister picking one out at ikea that matches her other furniture.

the table's functionality is distinct from its artistic value, although perhaps physically inseperable, i.e. it has functional value, but its functional value is not what makes it artistic. the creativity is.