So, what would you do if Danny Casolaro asked for your help?

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Postby Percival » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:30 pm

compared2what? wrote:
Jeff wrote:Quite apart from the controversies regarding, or perhaps imputed to, desertfae, I think this paragraph contains insights worth considering. Too many to bold:

Virginia McCullough wrote:
Pg. 11 fascinated me because of the discussion between Penguin, Percival and Nathan 28 re the reality of the Promis software. Certainly Danny Casolaro became involved in "The Octopus" because of Bill and Nancy Hamilton and the Inslaw case. Behind the introduction of Danny to the Hamiltons was Jeffrey Steinberg of the LaRouche origanization. Therefore the reality of the fabled Promis software and whether or not it was/is truly "the Cadillac" of all software iwas at the core of his investigation, at least it was in its infancy. But like all good investigations, the center of the investigation changes with time and the information obtained. So it did with Danny. I know this because in the months before his murder I often talked to him three or four times a day, evidenced by both his and my phone records in my possession. So the discussion on page 11 clearly demonstrates that over time Inslaw was not everything that was being hyped so intensely in the media and promoted by Michael Riconosciuto in the later part of 1990 and throughout 1991. Most scientists in Silicon Valley the Cobol-based Promis software is old and slow...by today's standards it is a dinosaur. It was Michael Riconosciuto's allegations that turned Promis into the super software of legend. During the last several weeks of Danny's life his attention had clearly shifted to the gold transfers conveyed by various intelligence operatives as so well detailed by Unsolved Mysteries reporter Don Devereaux. The two Unsolved Mysteries programs covering Danny's killing and the misplaced hit intended for Don Devereaux following the Casolaro airing clearly demonstrates the danger in delving into government/mob secrets .


For me anyway, this makes better sense of Promis and Riconosciuto and places Casolaro's murder in clearer context.


Jeff, this woman may have accidentally written a very manipulative email just coincidentally. But I don't think so. The above paragraph is the spoonful of sugar. The one below:

What I see now is the same manipulation of the Alvarez executions, several years after the fact, by the same brilliant individual Michael Riconosciuto. The story that Desert Fae is centering on and conveying to Nathan Baca and to law enforcement is the one promoted by Michael; i.e. the reason that Fred Alvarez was killed is because he was going to expose the Wackenhut/Cabazon Joint Venture and the arms manufacturing and sales that would be generated had that venture been successful. To be totally fair Desert Fae is also now saying that Robert Booth Nichols and his access to CIA funds might have been a motive for murder. In my opinion, based on my knowledge, documents and other books written about the Alvarez murders, there was a far greater, long term monetary incentive for the Alvarez executions. And that motive was control of land and the income it would bring to support our dirty little wars around the globe. I am currently working on a detailed article about this issue but it probably will not be post until next week. In any case, I have seen no proof, aside from Michael's allegations, that Promis was either developed and/or altered on the Cabazon reservation or that Dr. Gerald Bull's work product from Valleyfield ended up at the Cabazon Resevation, as also alleged by Michael.


...is way, way out of bounds. And gives the appearance of saying something when it's saying nothing. For example: If you free yourself from the flow of compelling, self-assured words for long enough to grasp its meaning of that bolded section, you'll see that first of all she's imputing to Rachel a kind of power to run the investigation that irrational in real-world terms and requires explanation if the charge is going to be made. I mean, the woman isn't herself a member of law enforcement, afaik. Further, and still worse her one and only criticism of this woman is fully self-contradictory. It more or less says: "I assert without proof that Desert Fae is carrying water for Michael Riconosciuto because as I also assert without proof she's been telling the same story he tells. Although to be fair, she actually tells exactly the story I think is correct too."

Rachel was posting about the gold smuggling as central when she was here last. Which was not that recently. Further, as VM herself says, investigations evolve. There may be a reason for her antagonism that justifies this degree of badjacketing based on vague correlation of behavior for which we only have VM's word. But if there is, she's not even hinting at it. She's just doing a very good job at making it look like actions are suspect that are in fact quite ordinary and no different from those of any other person who's honestly trying to get information about a crime out there under difficult circumstances -- ie, when it's tightly held for both legal reasons and reasons of personal safety.

Also that "I base my authority on my documents and knowledge" thing, however she phrased it exactly: Come on. That's totally B-movie, and not how investigation actually works. She's talking to us as if we were fools.

I don't trust it. It's pure malice, and for no apparent reason.


Something stinks for sure, I dont know what or who yet.
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Postby Jeff » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:30 pm

chiggerbit wrote:Riconosciuto had been introduced to Hamilton by Jeff Steinberg, a longtime top aide in the Lyndon LaRouche organization.


From Kenn Thomas' The Octopus:

In mid-June 1991, Danny Casolaro met with Jeff Steinberg, the Lyndon Larouche aide. Steinberg, who had earlier arranged the contact between the Hamiltons and Michael Riconosciuto, arranged for Casolaro to talk to an informant who went by the odd name of CHIPS, a former Customs agent who was now assisting the Treasury Department. Steinberg believes that CHIPS turned Casolaro's investigations further in the direction of Robert Booth Nichols, toward the Gamino Mafia family and drug trafficking.

Now that I see it, the Larouche org's role in connecting the players makes the official conspiracy story look more like the business of a controlled opposition.

And if we're not the Justice League, then Riconosciuto's no Brainiac. (Or even as some might have it, Brainiac 5.) In the constellation of conspiracies he reminds me more now of Franklin's Rusty Nelson: a hard-luck fall guy undoubtedly connected, but whose habitual lying makes him a source of both reasonable doubt for skeptics and unreasonable fantasy for believers.
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:33 pm

Wow, this is also intereting. I should probably be putting it in a thread devoted to LaRouche, but I'll stick it there for now.

From wiki on Larouche:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaRouche_criminal_trials


...One of his cellmates during his incarceration at the Federal Medical Center, Rochester in Minnesota was televangelist Jim Bakker. Bakker later devoted a chapter of his book, I Was Wrong, to his experience with LaRouche.[99][100] Bakker described his astonishment at LaRouche's detailed knowledge of the Bible. According to Bakker, LaRouche received a daily briefing each morning by phone, often in German, and on more than one occasion LaRouche had information days before it was reported on the network news. Bakker also wrote that his cellmate was convinced that their cell was bugged. In Bakker's view, "to say LaRouche was a little paranoid would be like saying that the Titanic had a little leak."[101] LaRouche also befriended Richard Miller, a former FBI agent and fellow inmate who was imprisoned on espionage charges.[102] LaRouche was paroled in 1994 after serving five years of the 15-year sentence, the normal schedule for parole at that time. LaRouche commented later that "... in effect, George H. W. Bush put me in the jug, and Bill Clinton got me out".[
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:46 pm

Now that I see it, the Larouche org's role in connecting the players makes the official conspiracy story look more like the business of a controlled opposition.


From now on, I'm going to keep in mind how deeply LaRouche is embedded in many, if not most, conspiracy theories, from the October surprise, to 9/11, to NYC squatters, to "Obama's healthcare plan is fascism", and now possibly in the Inslaw one, etc., etc.....
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Postby OP ED » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:34 pm

Jeff wrote:Quite apart from the controversies regarding, or perhaps imputed to, desertfae, I think this paragraph contains insights worth considering. Too many to bold:

Virginia McCullough wrote:
Pg. 11 fascinated me because of the discussion between Penguin, Percival and Nathan 28 re the reality of the Promis software. Certainly Danny Casolaro became involved in "The Octopus" because of Bill and Nancy Hamilton and the Inslaw case. Behind the introduction of Danny to the Hamiltons was Jeffrey Steinberg of the LaRouche origanization. Therefore the reality of the fabled Promis software and whether or not it was/is truly "the Cadillac" of all software iwas at the core of his investigation, at least it was in its infancy. But like all good investigations, the center of the investigation changes with time and the information obtained. So it did with Danny. I know this because in the months before his murder I often talked to him three or four times a day, evidenced by both his and my phone records in my possession. So the discussion on page 11 clearly demonstrates that over time Inslaw was not everything that was being hyped so intensely in the media and promoted by Michael Riconosciuto in the later part of 1990 and throughout 1991. Most scientists in Silicon Valley the Cobol-based Promis software is old and slow...by today's standards it is a dinosaur. It was Michael Riconosciuto's allegations that turned Promis into the super software of legend. During the last several weeks of Danny's life his attention had clearly shifted to the gold transfers conveyed by various intelligence operatives as so well detailed by Unsolved Mysteries reporter Don Devereaux. The two Unsolved Mysteries programs covering Danny's killing and the misplaced hit intended for Don Devereaux following the Casolaro airing clearly demonstrates the danger in delving into government/mob secrets .


For me anyway, this makes better sense of Promis and Riconosciuto and places Casolaro's murder in clearer context.



Jeff -1
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Postby hava1 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:50 pm

American Dream wrote:Hi hava-

No- not wealthy, very underemployed and living on limited funds, but I am often working at home with the computer on, and doing this is at worst a distraction, at best something meaningful.

Hava, you seem to be making a case that you think or know that a lot of people are "dirty" who aren't commonly believed to be so. I follow what you're saying and do agree with the general theme that infiltrators and opportunists are operating in our world. As to identifying specific people, that's a very tricky thing to be sure about.

Here's some themes I can validate from what I saw in the above:

We don't really know who is on this board. We know their usernames and what they post, but there are real limitations.

I'd say it's safe to assume that people with bad intentions come here, personally- some are organized, some are not.

Israel has a real place on the map as far as covert politics goes. Some people neglect it for nefarious reasons, some for innocent reasons.

The conspiracy research community has real "bad apples" in it, as well as bozos. It also has a huge challenge in being more than "conspiratainment".

Also, are you saying that Israel was "the source" of Iran Contra?


thanks for financial information, luckily the jewish spouse's family may come handy...sorry, couldn't help it.

while you "assess" people (now it appears that you regurgitate someone else's impressions), your way, i can only "assess' according to fact wtr to ISrael, i will not presume to know more about north america. save for alice, who really knows her way in Israeli culture, politics and more, the others so far, create false information (disinformation) probably on purpose and sometimes out of ignorance and relying on sources in the USA, who are feeding them with half truths for some purpose.

I am quite sure that among the conspirators of the iran contras there might also be some "throwing the hot potato" back and forth bn israel and the usa figures. i would imagine the US gang would like as much as possible (when push come to shove) point to Israelis and shift attention. I don't think the Israelis will do the same, simply because they never admited to anything publicly and inside Israel/ Namely, the Israeli conspirators have less of a manuver space because they need to keep the Israeli public totally compartmentalized from all of this. their hands are more tied, because of the fear of the public, who was kept totally in the dark. That's not the case in the USA, although you might feel it is the same. american officials and generals can come clean after doing some horrible stuff, and remain in one piece, because a lot has been leaking anyway and that's their job. BUt in Israel they play saints and hold the people as hostages.

part of it might be the MK related or child trafficking issues that might surface here and over at your place.

anyway, i certainly don't want to enter this minefield. i am just a happy troll.
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Postby Percival » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:13 pm

OP ED wrote:
Jeff wrote:Quite apart from the controversies regarding, or perhaps imputed to, desertfae, I think this paragraph contains insights worth considering. Too many to bold:

Virginia McCullough wrote:
Pg. 11 fascinated me because of the discussion between Penguin, Percival and Nathan 28 re the reality of the Promis software. Certainly Danny Casolaro became involved in "The Octopus" because of Bill and Nancy Hamilton and the Inslaw case. Behind the introduction of Danny to the Hamiltons was Jeffrey Steinberg of the LaRouche origanization. Therefore the reality of the fabled Promis software and whether or not it was/is truly "the Cadillac" of all software iwas at the core of his investigation, at least it was in its infancy. But like all good investigations, the center of the investigation changes with time and the information obtained. So it did with Danny. I know this because in the months before his murder I often talked to him three or four times a day, evidenced by both his and my phone records in my possession. So the discussion on page 11 clearly demonstrates that over time Inslaw was not everything that was being hyped so intensely in the media and promoted by Michael Riconosciuto in the later part of 1990 and throughout 1991. Most scientists in Silicon Valley the Cobol-based Promis software is old and slow...by today's standards it is a dinosaur. It was Michael Riconosciuto's allegations that turned Promis into the super software of legend. During the last several weeks of Danny's life his attention had clearly shifted to the gold transfers conveyed by various intelligence operatives as so well detailed by Unsolved Mysteries reporter Don Devereaux. The two Unsolved Mysteries programs covering Danny's killing and the misplaced hit intended for Don Devereaux following the Casolaro airing clearly demonstrates the danger in delving into government/mob secrets .


For me anyway, this makes better sense of Promis and Riconosciuto and places Casolaro's murder in clearer context.



Jeff -1


What does this mean OPED, you dont think the Larouche conntection is an issue worth noting/considering?

Just want to clarify.
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Postby Percival » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:15 pm

chiggerbit wrote:
Now that I see it, the Larouche org's role in connecting the players makes the official conspiracy story look more like the business of a controlled opposition.


From now on, I'm going to keep in mind how deeply LaRouche is embedded in many, if not most, conspiracy theories, from the October surprise, to 9/11, to NYC squatters, to "Obama's healthcare plan is fascism", and now possibly in the Inslaw one, etc., etc.....


The whole internet is fucked, you cant believe anything anymore. I have come full circle, I am back to thinking Reagan, Bush, Clinton etc are the good guys. :lol:
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Postby OP ED » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:18 pm

Percival wrote:
OP ED wrote:
Jeff wrote:Quite apart from the controversies regarding, or perhaps imputed to, desertfae, I think this paragraph contains insights worth considering. Too many to bold:

Virginia McCullough wrote:
Pg. 11 fascinated me because of the discussion between Penguin, Percival and Nathan 28 re the reality of the Promis software. Certainly Danny Casolaro became involved in "The Octopus" because of Bill and Nancy Hamilton and the Inslaw case. Behind the introduction of Danny to the Hamiltons was Jeffrey Steinberg of the LaRouche origanization. Therefore the reality of the fabled Promis software and whether or not it was/is truly "the Cadillac" of all software iwas at the core of his investigation, at least it was in its infancy. But like all good investigations, the center of the investigation changes with time and the information obtained. So it did with Danny. I know this because in the months before his murder I often talked to him three or four times a day, evidenced by both his and my phone records in my possession. So the discussion on page 11 clearly demonstrates that over time Inslaw was not everything that was being hyped so intensely in the media and promoted by Michael Riconosciuto in the later part of 1990 and throughout 1991. Most scientists in Silicon Valley the Cobol-based Promis software is old and slow...by today's standards it is a dinosaur. It was Michael Riconosciuto's allegations that turned Promis into the super software of legend. During the last several weeks of Danny's life his attention had clearly shifted to the gold transfers conveyed by various intelligence operatives as so well detailed by Unsolved Mysteries reporter Don Devereaux. The two Unsolved Mysteries programs covering Danny's killing and the misplaced hit intended for Don Devereaux following the Casolaro airing clearly demonstrates the danger in delving into government/mob secrets .


For me anyway, this makes better sense of Promis and Riconosciuto and places Casolaro's murder in clearer context.



Jeff -1


What does this mean OPED, you dont think the Larouche conntection is an issue worth noting/considering?

Just want to clarify.


oh jussa poke me friend.

i mean Jeff would have to lose a lotta points before i'd have a bad opinion of him. hell, the JLA comment was worth at least +3, so he's still up even just this week...

my point was. well ok. c2w said it better, but not how i'd've put it.

which is:

just because the bait is tasty don't mean there ain't a hook in it somewhere.
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Postby Percival » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:55 pm

OP ED wrote:
Percival wrote:
OP ED wrote:
Jeff wrote:Quite apart from the controversies regarding, or perhaps imputed to, desertfae, I think this paragraph contains insights worth considering. Too many to bold:

Virginia McCullough wrote:
Pg. 11 fascinated me because of the discussion between Penguin, Percival and Nathan 28 re the reality of the Promis software. Certainly Danny Casolaro became involved in "The Octopus" because of Bill and Nancy Hamilton and the Inslaw case. Behind the introduction of Danny to the Hamiltons was Jeffrey Steinberg of the LaRouche origanization. Therefore the reality of the fabled Promis software and whether or not it was/is truly "the Cadillac" of all software iwas at the core of his investigation, at least it was in its infancy. But like all good investigations, the center of the investigation changes with time and the information obtained. So it did with Danny. I know this because in the months before his murder I often talked to him three or four times a day, evidenced by both his and my phone records in my possession. So the discussion on page 11 clearly demonstrates that over time Inslaw was not everything that was being hyped so intensely in the media and promoted by Michael Riconosciuto in the later part of 1990 and throughout 1991. Most scientists in Silicon Valley the Cobol-based Promis software is old and slow...by today's standards it is a dinosaur. It was Michael Riconosciuto's allegations that turned Promis into the super software of legend. During the last several weeks of Danny's life his attention had clearly shifted to the gold transfers conveyed by various intelligence operatives as so well detailed by Unsolved Mysteries reporter Don Devereaux. The two Unsolved Mysteries programs covering Danny's killing and the misplaced hit intended for Don Devereaux following the Casolaro airing clearly demonstrates the danger in delving into government/mob secrets .


For me anyway, this makes better sense of Promis and Riconosciuto and places Casolaro's murder in clearer context.



Jeff -1


What does this mean OPED, you dont think the Larouche conntection is an issue worth noting/considering?

Just want to clarify.


oh jussa poke me friend.

i mean Jeff would have to lose a lotta points before i'd have a bad opinion of him. hell, the JLA comment was worth at least +3, so he's still up even just this week...

my point was. well ok. c2w said it better, but not how i'd've put it.

which is:

just because the bait is tasty don't mean there ain't a hook in it somewhere.


Yea, I agree.
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Postby American Dream » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:01 pm

I want to recommend that all those who are interested in this unfolding drama go back to the beginning of this thread and review everything that has happened here.

Whatever the ultimate outcome of this story, looking at all of what happened here is bound to be quite educational...
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article from

Postby sw » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:25 pm

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/strate ... 4/AFF.html

Good article from Schiller Institute talking about connections between MKULTRA....

some of the names I have not seen before..
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:42 pm

sw said:
Good article from Schiller Institute talking about connections between MKULTRA....


From wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaRouche_criminal_trials

In testimony submitted to the Senate Judiciary Committee on July 13, 1998, the LaRouche-affiliated Schiller Institute claimed...
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Postby American Dream » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:47 pm

Yes- the Schiller Institute is a LaRouche front.

Doesn't mean that 80% of their information isn't true, but the other 20% is deadly...
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Postby chiggerbit » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:05 pm

Or 40/60? Who's to know?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiller_Institute

Schiller Institute
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia LaRouche movement


Lyndon LaRouche
Views of Lyndon LaRouche
LaRouche criminal trials
U.S. Presidential campaigns

Organizations
BüSo
Citizens Electoral Council
European Workers Party
Executive Intelligence Review
LaRouche movement
LaRouche Youth Movement
NCLC
Schiller Institute

People
James Bevel
Michael Billington
Anton Chaitkin
Jacques Cheminade
Jeremiah Duggan
Janice Hart
Kenneth Kronberg
Amelia Boynton Robinson
Webster Tarpley
Helga Zepp-LaRouche

Defunct
California Proposition 64
North American Labour Party
Party for the
Commonwealth of Canada
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The Schiller Institute is an international political and economic thinktank, one of the primary organizations of the LaRouche movement, with headquarters in Germany and the United States, and supporters in Australia, Canada, Russia, and South America, among others, according to its website.[1]

The Institute's stated aim is to apply the ideas of the philosopher Friedrich Schiller to what it calls the "contemporary world crisis." It was founded at a conference in Wiesbaden, Germany, in 1984 by Helga Zepp LaRouche, the German-born wife of American political activist Lyndon LaRouche. The American branch of the Institute publishes a quarterly magazine, Fidelio, which it describes as a "Journal of Poetry, Science, and Statecraft." The German branch publishes a similar magazine called Ibykus, named after Schiller's poem "The Cranes of Ibykus."[2]

The Schiller Institute is closely tied to Lyndon LaRouche. A biography of LaRouche hosted on Institute's website says, "It is his work and his ideas, that inspired the creation of the international Schiller Institute, as well as his intellectual and moral leadership that continue to set the standard for the policies and activity of the movement."[3] LaRouche's writings are featured prominently in Schiller Institute communications, and he is the keynote speaker at most Schiller Institute conferences.
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