MC and delusions (loads of TRIGGERS)

[LilyPatToo]

Cordelia said:

I'd...just been hired by a company that sponsored leaders and authors in the ‘New Age’ and 'Human Potential Movement' (among others, we sponsored Richard Bandler and brought Neurolinguistic Programming to Washington, D.C. and other cities along the East Coast. My previous job, along with this and future jobs, follow what I believe is a possible link to MC, but that’s another story).

NLP & Bandler have been strongly linked to US mind control programs, so I hope you'll say more about that some day. It's so sad that Dream's End's 10,000 Heroes – SRI and the Manufacturing of the New Age blog posts are no longer up at WordPress. And The Wayback Machine site is down for maintenance at the moment, so I won't be able to link to his detailed history of the way that the Human Potential Movement (and the New Age in general) were mass "social engineering" projects (mass mind control, IOW). But the subject has been discussed here at RI many times. And other survivors of the programs have mentioned being used by handlers to promote covert mass mind control projects, so being employed by companies like the one you worked for might be an important part of your personal puzzle.

As for rage alters, so much disinfo has been posted online about special forces-type training of "Delta" alters that it's very, very difficult to suss out the real thing. Most of it is juicy disinfo-laced screen memories, I suspect, but some is an accurate reporting of real training programs involving DID/MPD human guinea pigs. One verifiable goal of MKULTRA was to produce couriers for the intelligence agencies and the military. Working as undercover agents in dangerous parts of the world, I assume they would need to have excellent self-defense skills. And then there's the goal of creating a "super soldier" that's also seems to be part of the mind control programs.

Since my own rage alter is a fairly well-developed personality (rather than just a "fragment"), looking back over my life I can identify a number of times that she's surfaced. That sense of being on frigid plain and the slowing of time are 2 things I learned to recognize long before I'd ever heard of MC programming. She has a particularly strong trigger around being touched by someone behind her/me and my current husband once found himself pinned underwater with her/my hand around his throat when he forgot and grabbed me by the waist from behind during a snorkeling session in the Bahamas

Then there was the winter evening when I inadvertently stepped into a disintegrating drug deal on a dark Oakland street corner. I knew it was her by the deep pleasure she felt in facing down both guys--dangerous situations evoke a thrill in her, as opposed to the stark fear they cause me. The expression on my face when she's "in front" feels very different from my usual demeanor, too. I'm small, blonde and very slight in build, so aggressive men aren't running from me due to any physical fears when she surfaces. It has to be the unholy glee with which she faces them. Scares me half to death each time it happens I live in fear that she'll land us in jail someday...

And I don't recall hearing any of the wavie/gang-stalking sufferers mentioning alters at all, let alone ones with apparent hand-to-hand-combat training. If I'm incorrect about that, I hope someone will correct and clarify.

LilyPat

[Col. Quisp]

c

[Free]

Cordelia wrote:

In 1978 I’d left a long time job and just been hired by a company that sponsored leaders and authors in the ‘New Age’ and 'Human Potential Movement' (among others, we sponsored Richard Bandler and brought Neurolinguistic Programming to Washington, D.C. and other cities along the East Coast. My previous job, along with this and future jobs, follow what I believe is a possible link to MC, but that’s another story).

My sister-in-law, who was a sociology professor, couldn’t believe my luck in landing a job with this organization, but I was deeply, deeply depressed; I didn’t want the job and felt frightened, but also pressured by the director and compelled to take it.

Interesting...

I had quite a bit of contact with a programmed person (a woman) that did a parallel job (organizing workshops for Bandler and the NLP crew, Leonard Orr and Rebirthing and others) in another country. I agree, LiliPat, that the NLP higher-ups were up to their eyeballs in military/intelligence connections and were, I believe, heavily involved with the MK programming.

In fact, this woman brought me onto a military base to meet some NLP expert friends of hers. That happened in the light of day, something I never forgot. Many years later though, I remembered the whole picture. These two young men were the ones who directed the reprogramming ordeal that I was put through, on the same base, on that and the next couple of nights.

This was during the period that I was struggling to get away from "them" (the mk perps) but had not quite figured out that my family was dangerous and to be avoided at all costs. I believe that "they", on the other hand, were confident that they could corral me back in, and weren't even too worried about the fact that I had began to remember incest with my father.

Their plan, which they shared with me in programming sessions, was to assign me to the same project you were working with, Cornelia,- New Day, which was what they were calling the engineered elements of the movement that we know as The New Age or the Human Potential" movement.

I was very lucky, and their attempts to reign me in failed. And over the years I was able to dodge the envoys they sent to re-involve me, even if, at the time I wasn't always conscious that these pushy, false friends were cult-connected.

[Cordelia]

Delta, it’s not the same as being ‘officially’ labeled by the military, but my mother used to call me anti-social, because I was so angry. I used to be ashamed of my anger but now I value it (although I believe my extreme physical pain is due to turning my rage inward) and I respect angry people.

[LiliPat, that the NLP higher-ups were up to their eyeballs in military/intelligence connections and were, I believe, heavily involved with the MK programming.

What everyone is writing is so helpful to me because I’ve been searching for validation of my experiences. LP, and Free, I absolutely agree about the New Age and Human Potential movement being co-opted by intelligence fronts to foster social engineering. Though I was blind to this while working with the company I’ve written about, I did become cognizant in the 1990’s.

About Bandler and NLP, I’m not sure how much I can add of my own experience with Bandler (I had little to do with him personally) and with what happened between him and the company I worked with.

If you haven’t already read this, this is a fascinating article on Richard Bandler:

http://www.pinkmoan.com/pdf/TheBandlerM ... rJones.pdf

[Free]

Cordelia wrote:

And, like all good capitalistic (now that MC was in the private sector)

What is the source of your knowledge for your statement about MC (now) being in the private sector?


Re: Split-off anger or angry alters

Oh, BTW everyone, Last year I posted this thread about a self-healing method, an anger therapy called RST (link below):

New Anger Therapy Method

I've been working with the method since then, I even did it this morning. My gym has a boxing area with two heavy punching bags. Punching and kicking them while visualizing "perps I have known" is extremely therapeutic and a great workout to boot!

I relate to your stories about the angry parts coming out unexpectedly, but also feel a bit different since perhaps I was steered into a greater focus on anger and self-defense and have had a lifelong connection with martial arts.

What I always knew, was that I began studying Karate`when I was fifteen and became very involved in it all throughout my teens and 20's then took up qigong.

During therapy and the fleshing out of the "story behind the story" I found out that my martial arts training had really begun at age 8. A military spook at the university where I was programmed as a child taught me basic "real skills." He had a "cut to the chase" approach. One of the first lessons was on the places you could hit to kill or seriously hurt a person with one sharp blow. These lessons were given both to me and to one of my siblings, who never went on to study martial arts like I did. This makes me think that many children might have been given some basic training that remains in the recesses of their memory.

Maybe because I had been tracked as someone who they wanted to send overseas, they pushed me into serious martial arts study. In fact, in the year before I went abroad I spent almost every weeknight in the dojo. My whole social life was martial arts, tournaments, etc. They even programmed in a "Bruce Lee" alter.

I had all this training, but, not surprisingly I guess, in my beyond-the-cult life, I was bottled up and wracked with internal contradictions regarding my anger. Luckily, one of my first therapists did the kind of "anger therapy" where you hit big pillows with plastic bats. I think it helped but I didn't really straighten things out till I remembered the "Bruce Lee" programming and found RST on the internet. And, most importantly, until I got the users and abusers out of my life.

Last summer I was doing RST practically every other day and I think I released decades worth of stored rage and resentment. I continue to do RST when I feel the need (or want a good workout. A trainer told me that a 30 minute punching and kicking session with the heavy bag is equivalent to an hour or more of other aerobic exercise).

[LilyPatToo]

Thank you for reminding me about that anger release therapy, Free. I'm still using brisk walking to detox my brain/body chemistry, but you know I have a feeling that the rage alter I mentioned would love landing actual physical blows to burn off some of her anger. She seems much stronger (particularly upper-body strength) than I am, which is a bit confusing, since we're sharing a body. It's just that I don't entirely trust her to get "out" that far with a weapon in her hand. In the past she's always backed off and accepted my valuation of the situation before she hurt anyone seriously--but what if she didn't?

DeltaDawn, you asked about fear triggering a rage alter's presence. In the case of mine, it's not fear, exactly. There have been many times when I've been scared and she's not surfaced. She seems to have programming that activates her only when there's reason to believe that our body is in immediate danger.

And I'm almost certain that she's also unable to take any action at all against anyone she recognizes as being a handler or owner. That precaution would be necessary in someone who was used the way I was. My last owner was a brutal sociopath and his friends were Mobsters--if my rage alter had been free to defend us, she would have, I think. But she didn't surface once, no matter how violent they got with me.

Cordelia, those jobs you worked at really set my MC antennae quivering One aspect of growing up "program" that's rarely talked about much is the way a slave somehow is kept enmeshed in an extended group of "in-the-know" people. Sometimes they're employers or therapists, other times they might be "friends" or people we date, but all sorts of "coincidences" happen that keep us moving within an invisible social territory, sort of...like a dog with one of those collars that won't let them cross an invisible fence.

And thanks for that link to the Bandler article. For a long time, the only form I had it in was photos of the pages of the original article:

LilyPat

[Joe Hillshoist]

I have encountered a "rage alter" also. LPT, your story has hit a nerve. I don't mean to imply that I have endured what you have but some things I read here make lots of sense to me.

I also can't stand for people to brush up against me from behind.

I have got one too .... (a rage alter that is)



I'm not a survivor of any program tho (apart from society itself.)

But that rage alter is definitely there, and it probably comes from childhood ptsd.

I can control it most of the time tho. In fact when I lose it (control that is) and start raging its usually because I have just had enough of trying to control myself in front of arseholes (tho they may not be asouls, just jerks...).

It kicks in uncontrollably when I get hit from behind, or some other unexpected direction, be it accident, contact playing footy or assault on the street, or in some social situation, (unless I get hit so hard it knocks me out.) Then its a fight to get it back under control.

Often its accompanied by what I could best describe as a white light flashing inside my head.

(In my "non existant" "mind", if you like.)

Deep down, i'm a very angry man. That anger is fuel for that rage personality/alter/side of myself.

its definitely a fight or flight response, but its a very specific one.

It stems from childhood ptsd, as I said before, and, with me, part of that comes from being held down and bashed by a whole bunch of other people, who were also older... the sense of helplessness, and the knowledge that I won't always be helpless, cos one day i'll be as big as you mutha fucker and when I am look the fuck out...


Sorry about the language, but talking about it brings it nearer to the surface.

I have noticed a similar thing with survivors of childhood abuse, specifically people who were not abused as some pat of a program or pedo ring with MC aspects (which imo include things like "this is our little secret" and "don't you dare tell anyone".)

I'm small, blonde and very slight in build, so aggressive men aren't running from me due to any physical fears when she surfaces. It has to be the unholy glee with which she faces them.

Its also the eyes.

Its not just that unholy glee, having seen it from the outside too.

There is no compromise with those eyes.

Or the force/rage that drives them. Thats the scary thing. Those eyes are in the head of someone who will, at that moment, fight until they are dead, then still fight for 5 more minutes just for the fuck of it. they don't care about the consequences for themselves, and the only consequences they care about for you (if they are looking at you with those eyes) is you death, preferably 210 minutes ago, but as that hasn't happened they will happily rip your heart out and eat it now.

I assume that for you, LPT, the fuel for that rage comes from tapping the anger you feel at your childhood treatment, (sorry about the assumption btw, if its wrong, you know yourself better than I do,) cos its in there, just buried. So I'm running with that for now...


Whoever did this stuff to you must have been able to tap your anger, and from what I understand about the process that must involve having cues you associate with it ... thats how it works with me.

I can even "trigger" it myself, by simply focusing on the negative memories from childhood, and associating them with something in the world that stems from the same place (imo anyway) - say whats happening outback, or remembering stories like the one I heard today, about a 12 year old aboriginal kid being charged with recieving stolen goods, cos someone else knicked a chocolate freddo frog from a supermarket and gave it to him.

Sometimes when I do that the only thing that really controls it is having a session (smoking many bongs) or doing some intense phsical work or exercise.

[barracuda]

NLP & Bandler have been strongly linked to US mind control programs...

LilyPat, do you know of any articles or citations regarding this link between Bandler and MK Ultra or other programs?

Some people report being abused as children by doctors, scientists, military members and intelligence agents who were part of a network that participated in "mind control" experimentation. Arguably, enough such experimentation has been documented (esp. as it did include child subjects) as to make such claims plausible, even in the absence of specific individual evidence.

My apologies if this is tedious, but bear with me. Throughout this thread, the vast majority of individuals with reports of personal experience with "mind control" fall into the above category. The resulting psychological effect reported in many of the cases, and a characteristic element of many of the reports on the thread is an informal diagnosis of the mental disorder known as Dissociative Identity Disorder purposefully caused by childhood trauma. DID presents a variety of symptoms, including:

• lapses in memory (dissociation), particularly of significant life events, like birthdays, wedding, or birth of a child;

• blackouts in time, resulting in finding oneself in places but not recalling how one traveled there;

• being frequently accused of lying when they do not believe they are lying (for example, being told of things they did but do not recall);

• finding items in one's possession but not recalling how those things were acquired;

• encountering people with whom one is unfamiliar but who seem to know them as someone else;

• being called names that are completely unlike their own name or nickname;

• finding items they have clearly written but are in handwriting other than their own;

• hearing voices inside their head that are not their own;

• not recognizing themselves in the mirror;

• feeling unreal (derealization);

• feeling like they are watching themselves move through life rather than living their own life; and

• feeling like more than one person.

A diagnoisis of DID can be quite difficult for the therapist to make: "Patients typically have been diagnosed with at least 3 different mental disorders and have been treated unsuccessfully. On average, these patients are in the mental health system for about 6 to 8 yr before the disorder is accurately diagnosed."

Another group of people report they are being harassed by surveillance, "gang-stalking," and various high-tech weaponry. While there is some overlap, the vast majority of people in the first group report that the primary negative effects of their experiences come from past, internal conditioning, etc. While the vast majority of the latter group believes they are being assaulted by external, nefarious elements, in the here and now.

Arguably those phenomena reported by the latter group bear resemblance to delusions of external control and manipulation as reported historically by paranoid schizophrenics.

An informal diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia seems off the mark here, particularly as paranoid schizophrenics are usually incapacitated by the disorder.

• Positive symptoms can be further categorized as delusions and hallucinations. Delusions are erroneous beliefs. In persecutory delusions, patients believe they are being tormented, followed, tricked, or spied on. In delusions of reference, patients believe that passages from books, newspapers, song lyrics, or other environmental cues are directed at them. In delusions of thought withdrawal or thought insertion, patients believe that others can read their mind, that their thoughts are being transmitted to others, or that thoughts and impulses are being imposed on them by outside forces. Hallucinations may be auditory, visual, olfactory, gustatory, or tactile, but auditory hallucinations are by far the most common. Patients may hear voices commenting on their behavior, conversing with one another, or making critical and abusive comments. Delusions and hallucinations may be extremely vexing to patients.

• Negative (deficit) symptoms include blunted affect, poverty of speech, anhedonia, and asociality. With blunted affect, the patient's face appears immobile, with poor eye contact and lack of expressiveness. Poverty of speech refers to decreased speech and terse replies to questions, creating the impression of inner emptiness. Anhedonia may be reflected by a lack of interest in activities and increased purposeless activity. Asociality is demonstrated by a lack of interest in relationships. Negative symptoms often lead to poor motivation and a diminished sense of purpose and goals.

• Disorganized symptoms, which can be considered a type of positive symptom, involve thought disorders and bizarre behaviors. Thinking is disorganized, with rambling, non–goal-directed speech that shifts from one topic to another. Speech can range from mildly disorganized to incoherent and incomprehensible. Bizarre behavior may include childlike silliness, agitation, and inappropriate appearance, hygiene, or conduct. Catatonia is an extreme behavior that can include maintaining a rigid posture and resisting efforts to be moved or engaging in purposeless and unstimulated motor activity.

• Cognitive deficits include impairment in attention, processing speed, working memory, abstract thinking, problem solving, and understanding of social interactions. The patient's thinking may be inflexible, and the ability to problem solve, understand the viewpoints of other people, and learn from experience may be diminished. Symptoms of schizophrenia typically impair the ability to function and often markedly interfere with work, social relations, and self-care. Unemployment, isolation, deteriorated relationships, and diminished quality of life are common outcomes. Severity of cognitive impairment is a major determinant of overall disability.

It seems highly doubtful that groups of paranoid schizophrenics could come together on the internet and form cohesive communities related to their shared or common delusions. Whatever mental disorder may be assumed by the reports of "wavies", it is clearly not schizophrenia. However there are a variety of delusional disorders which might better fit the bill.

While things like electromagnetic weaponry and surveillance have been documented as extant, reason to believe that such things have been used against civilians in the United States in any substantial number is limited. Though I am speaking primarily based on what I have gleaned anecdotally.

I think on this board we have had any number of threads in which these technologies have been plainly identified and discussed. Surveillance, as we well know, of the civilian population here is an outright commonplace. And the ability to focus voices externally into a passive individual's head has crossed the border into advertising.

Both types of "mind control" victims present with symptoms of mental illness, one group contending that their persecution occurred in childhood, the other stating that it is ongoing.

So I am wondering, why is there such an intense pejorative associated with the persons in your latter category of externally tormented individuals? There is even a convenient but derogatory nickname used on this thread, "wavies" which I believe has been literally invented here amongst the survivors to differentiate themselves from a group of mind control victims which they consider to be mentally ill. All the while explicitly telling us that they are suffering from DID, a recognised mental disorder, themselves.

At the risk of further armchair psychiatry, how would you characterise Brice Taylor or Cathy O'Brian with regards to their levels of delusion, if at all?

Both are, at times, referred to as "mind control."

I would venture to suggest that this phrase is, in itself, probably triggering, and that it carries with it too much baggage to be useful, either as an umbrella term for fellow survivors, or as a "brand" with which to seek wider understanding of the problem.

[blanc]

Not speaking for anyone else here but my response to the allegations of ongoing electronic or wave voices in the head harassment as opposed to allegations of damage through earlier mistreatment and occasional ongoing physical harassment is of standing back, because I have no direct personal experience which could relate to it, and I have no knowledge of technology which would facilitate the kind of stalking that has been described - that is of directed personal thought control of one target person who moves around freely. I am sure that if such technology existed it would be seen as extremely useful by each of the 3 elephants we have in menage a trois, ie secret services, organised crime, 'believers' perpetrating ritual crime. One of the aspects of mc:ra programmes is that its possible to see where they are going, who has acquired benefit from them, and where they have not had success. From the perspective of all of the ra organised abuse cases I am familiar with, I can see who gets richer, and to a certain extent what makes the perps tick. If it were possible to select targets from anywhere in the population and manipulate them or disrupt their capacity for independent thoughts by techie means, I'd expect to be seeing a lot more social changes. So I'm standing back and waiting to get answers to the questions in my mind.

[Project Willow]

I'm going to chime in here a little if that's alright...
*Describes programming - May be triggering*

Whoever did this stuff to you must have been able to tap your anger, and from what I understand about the process that must involve having cues you associate with it ... thats how it works with me.

You are exactly right Joe. Manipulation of the resulting emotions of trauma is a central practice in trauma based mind control. Subjects' experiences of pain, shame, fear, and anger are from initiation deliberately and systemically manipulated and conditioned. The manipulation begins very early, as soon as the child is able to self indentify feelings. One of the major architects of the programs developed the early methods, and they were used prevalently enough that they show up in the survivor literature. (Though I can't remember which account now, sorry.) Subjects were conditioned to store these emotions in very specific ways so that they could be used in subsequent training. One aspect of this conditioning was to relieve the subject's normative and other parts of these feelings making him all the more likely to repeat internally the conditioned behavior, and so perpetuate his own enslavement. This is a classic mc bind.

Manipulation of the alter or group of alters who hold anger provides the energy or compelling force necessary to create assassin or other types of violent alters.

To those of you doing anger release therapy, and forgive me, because I'm sure you already know this, however, I think it's good to state this anyway. Make sure that parts holding feelings like anger are de-conditioned first, otherwise you could just be relieving what is in a sense a self perpetuating loop, another common practice. Your anger should reduce over time, rather than feel perpetual, or as if it returns to a baseline state.

[Project Willow]

....

It seems highly doubtful that groups of paranoid schizophrenics could come together on the internet and form cohesive communities related to their shared or common delusions. Whatever mental disorder may be assumed by the reports of "wavies", it is clearly not schizophrenia. However there are a variety of delusional disorders which might better fit the bill.


I think on this board we have had any number of threads in which these technologies have been plainly identified and discussed. Surveillance, as we well know, of the civilian population here is an outright commonplace. And the ability to focus voices externally into a passive individual's head has crossed the border into advertising.

Both types of "mind control" victims present with symptoms of mental illness, one group contending that their persecution occurred in childhood, the other stating that it is ongoing.

So I am wondering, why is there such an intense pejorative associated with the persons in your latter category of externally tormented individuals? There is even a convenient but derogatory nickname used on this thread, "wavies" which I believe has been literally invented here amongst the survivors to differentiate themselves from a group of mind control victims which they consider to be mentally ill. All the while explicitly telling us that they are suffering from DID, a recognised mental disorder, themselves.

I think Lily stated when she first used the term that if there were concerns she would drop it. I personally am not comfortable with the term myself, and suggest using electronic harassment.

As to the general question of the OP, people whom I respect in the treatment field have long believed that most claimants of electronic harassment are actually unhealed tbmc survivors. There are features of many e harassment survivors' behavior and claims that back up the supposition, including the presentation of symptoms and description of experiences that can be, in uncannily detailed ways, explained by known programming techniques. In other words, many of the stories one can read in the Internet describe what it's like to experience oneself reacting to internal programming.
If this is the case, then it is possible they are maintained to provide even more incredulous cover for experimentation and hence it's no accident their claims tend to be presented as representative of all claims of mind control, and why one encounters them at David Icke type gatherings. I have found example of this myself, witnessing an entire audience at a lecture on e harassment and Harpe being given verbal cue after verbal cue.

However, I've found myself at times having to reassess on a case by case basis. One reason you've stated, we have plenty of proof the technology exists. Then there are the stories of some guy who builds a emf machine in his garage, and numerous other examples of possible scenarios. I've had an in person encounter with one man that I still cannot explain to myself, and to me was evidence that all manner of experimentation on human bodies and minds is ongoing. It could have all been a big show, but what a lot of trouble to go to. There are accounts I've read, particularly ones like that circulating the Internet a few years ago about an entire town that experienced a sharp increase in suicide and depression concurrently with increased military testing, I tend to take more seriously.

At the risk of further armchair psychiatry, how would you characterise Brice Taylor or Cathy O'Brian with regards to their levels of delusion, if at all?

Both are, at times, referred to as "mind control."

I would venture to suggest that this phrase is, in itself, probably triggering, and that it carries with it too much baggage to be useful, either as an umbrella term for fellow survivors, or as a "brand" with which to seek wider understanding of the problem.

I would not say that either Taylor or O'Brien are delusional, unless you want to split hairs with rhetoric, just possibly under control or manipulated.

I don't agree that the term mind control is triggering. It is loaded, and possibly ineffective at this point, but it is rather aptly descriptive. What other term or set of terms would you suggest?

[lightningBugout]

I've only spoken, as I said, anecdotally about people who speak of, to use Willow's more appropriate phrasing, electronic harassment. I don't personally know anyone with that experience so I will abstain from that.

Was someone making an attempt at diagnosis in this thread? That's a very bad idea but then we are all grown ups here (I assume) and the person on the receiving end should be wise enough to take that with a grain of salt.

I don't think it would be, in any way, appropriate to speculate about Taylor and O'Brien. I don't know them.

Finally, there is something in your post that seems to characterize MC survivors trying to distinguish their collective experience from the electronic harassment set that makes it sound as though "we" are also "mentally ill" and scapegoating another group. That was not in what I wrote.

I'd be careful with talking about DID and "mental illness." It's more complicated than that. Dissociation is a normal, healthy coping mechanism that, in and of itself, does not signify "illness" at all. It's simply an adaptation that usually outwears it's usefulness and often begins to cause problems in adult life. A great deal of suffering and some oddly formed emotional issues yes, but I would characterize dissociative disorders as more similar to maladaptive development than illness.

Not to mention, those of us who have posted here are not all DID.

[82_28]

OK. So this is hella outta my league here. But I was very sick as a baby I guess. I spent many weeks in the hospital with a unrelenting fever. (yet I am still the tallest and healthiest smoking and drinking dude our family has ever had). I tower over everybody in my family. yah yah yah.

So, anyhow. When I was a kid, maybe 2, 3, 4 years old, I would have these recurring dreams. They were bathed in a horrendous salmon or pinkish light, where my naked body would get painted in a paste around my nipples and "genitalia" to turn me into a girl. I was always laying in a gurney and many others were around me too. I'm straight btw.

I am extremely empathic (at least my ego says so). Extremely rebellious. I have a bad case of OCD (holla!). Always have. But sometimes I wonder if I was put into a "program" of sorts. They always wanted me to get into the "olympics of the mind" and the "gifted" program. I rebelled at every chance.

Reading this thread makes me wonder. What were they doing to us as kids?

Not saying or asserting a thing. Just wondering. . .

[American Dream]

I will admit to being extremely ambivalent towards the claims of targeted individuals and the like. I have thought about this stuff deeply because I know a few people who are enthusiastic advocates for the cause, and at least one person that considers themself a target.

I think it's possible that people are being attacked with secret new technologies and I know without a doubt that there are organized surveillance and harassment techniques that would be within the reach of government agencies.

That said, I don't think we can take the subjective accounts of people who are in extreme states as the gospel truth, even though they may truly be targets. If there is a mind-influencing technique at play, it may actually be working, and deluding the victim and/or some other type of pre-existing mind disturbance may be at play. So looking for independent, empirical confirmation is very important.

If someone is already fearful, say someone who has been traumatized since childhood by scary and violent organized perps, then it wouldn't take much to potentially push them over into extreme paranoia. This may sometimes be the point.

So, to summarize, I wouldn't demonize the people who claim to be targeted but neither would I unquestioningly accept all their claims.

[Cordelia]

Cordelia wrote:

And, like all good capitalistic (now that MC was in the private sector)

What is the source of your knowledge for your statement about MC (now) being in the private sector?

Free,

One article, probably already linked elsewhere on this site, by Husayn Al-Kurdi, comes to mind: http://mindcontrolforums.com/messing

But, thinking more about it, I doubt it was only after the Church Committee supposedly shut down the government practices, that they moved them into the private arena. They were probably already intermingled, and I remember reading a convincing timeline-- I can’t remember where--but one that traces the history of human experimentation far back, before WWII (of course, it’s probably always existed).