Organised stalking?

Moderators: DrVolin, 82_28, Elvis, Jeff

Organised stalking?

Postby ilyinternet » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:19 pm

I was looking at the indymedia rss feed and this http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/12/442921.html came up.

Organised stalking?

I did a search on the forums on stalking and organised stalking but didnt see anything like this?

WTF is this? disinfo? it's quite bizzare. but im stoned so, maybe it seems more bizzare than it should.
User avatar
ilyinternet
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:14 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby American Dream » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:29 pm

I'd say that this stuff is blurring the line between delusion and reality, even though it is true that harassment does happen to some people in some places at some times, for certain reasons.

Does this sort of material mess with your head when you're stoned? Sure it does.

Does it mess with your head when you're kinda whacked-out for any number of reasons? Sure it does.

This is why I'm kinda bothered by "targeted individual" discourse- not enough emphasis on reality-testing and critical thinking, when that is what we really need in order to separate the wheat from the chaff.

This might sound kinda harsh, but not only would this kind of material be attractive to people with pre-existing mental disturbance, I think it could make somebody paranoid enough so as to aggravate, or even cause mental disturbance.

Does this mean I don't think anybody anywhere has ever been the victim of group stalking? No, I'm not saying that- just that some of these websites rub me the wrong way...
American Dream
 
Posts: 19838
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:32 pm

"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby elfismiles » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:32 am

Hi ilyinternet.

The post you linked to is by Eleanor White, a long time subscriber and discussion contributor to the top-notch UFO UpDates elist.* I briefly communicated with her back in 2005 when I got permission to reprint her commentary on an "Exopolitics Flap" that happened on the excellent radio show "Strange Days... Indeed" that is hosted by the manager of the UFO UpDates elist.**

Yeah, the Organized Stalking sub-genre of MK harassment is an even harder pill to swallow. While it is entirely possible and doable from a covert-ops sort of perspective the narratives often swerve into areas that imply a host of psychological issues that may or may not have been induced by the alleged harassment. Kinda reminds me of the case I mentioned in this thread the other day (Paranormal experiences vs. targeted individual psyops - http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... 299#302299 ) regarding the claims of "voices in the head victim" Michael Terry.

I've downloaded Eleanor's new comicstrip ebook. Am looking through it now.

Her website is: http://www.multistalkervictims.org

Image
ORGANIZED STALKING: A TARGET'S VIEW
Eleanor White
Revision of October 31, 2009
This writer has been an activist working to expose the crime of organized stalking for over two decades, and has been in contact with other targets of organized stalking since 1996. I am a retired engineer. This booklet relates my opinions and conclusions, and readers should be aware that others may hold different opinions.
http://www.multistalkervictims.org/osatv2.pdf


She's written a review of a book I've never heard of that sounds interesting and which apparently Harpers magazine also reviewed and whose title leads me to yet another on the subject of Gaslighting:

Image
Gaslighting - How to Drive Your Enemies Crazy by Victor Santoro
Copyright 1994 Published by Loompanics Unlimited
http://www.multistalkervictims.org/gaslight.htm
http://www.harpers.org/subjects/Gasligh ... sCrazyBook

Gaslighting, the Double Whammy, Interrogation, and Other Methods of Covert Control in Psychotherapy and Analysis by Theodore L. Dorpat, Theo L. Dorpat
http://www.amazon.com/Gaslighting-Inter ... 568218281/

Image

More links here at RI dealing with Organized Stalking:

Vigilantes? This sticker just went up in my neighborhood
[Hugh Manatee's assessment of this type of material]
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=23789

Sample / Letter / Congress / Microwave Weapons
Derrick Robinson - http://www.freedomfchs.com
http://gerryduffett.proboards54.com/ind ... rd=general
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=24659

Harassment / Stalking / Agincourt / Canada
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=23817

Supplement / Microwave / Harassment and Mind-Control Experimentation
JULIANNE MCKINNEY, Director, Electronic Surveillance Project
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=24985

-=-=-=-

* = UFO UpDates Archive
http://www.ufoupdateslist.com
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/

** = The 'Exopolitics Flap' by Eleanor White
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/upd ... -021.shtml

-=-=-=-

More Finds:

Citizens Against Technological and Community-based Harassment (CATCH)
http://www.CatchCanada.org

Cause Stalking by David Lawson
http://www.causestalking.net
http://www.multistalkervictims.org/caustalk.htm

Terrorist Stalking in America by David Lawson
http://www.multistalkervictims.org/terstalk.htm
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8421
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Postby elfismiles » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:07 am

Okay here is another little internet research path or two...

RI user named gerryduffett posts a lot of interesting MK / stalking related links and apparently has a board called "Workplace Issue" for stalking discussion:

http://gerryduffett.proboards.com/index ... rd=general

One of the threads there is titled "This Is A Game ?" where Gerry has posted links to these two odd / interesting anonymous pieces from indymedia sites:

Fruitcake Employers Hire Gangs To Harass Ex-Employees
by Worker Saturday, Dec. 04, 2004 at 11:26 AM

There is such a corporation in Austin, Texas.

It appears that corporations are using gang stalking to silence employees who know too much: "The reasons for why a person is initially targeted can vary. Sometimes the person may be a political activist. Others may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Corporations apparently have even been known to hire these stalking groups for reasons that only they can fathom. Many times these stalking gangs may be lied to about the target, thinking that perhaps the person is a pervert who needs to be driven out of town. The reasons are only limited to the imagination. In some cases, according to Lawson, the person has done nothing wrong but is used as a practice target or as an example to others in the group to show what will happen to them if they 'defect'. This serves to keep the members of these stalking groups tied to the group through intense fear of becoming a target. It is such a terrifying prospect because the gang members are intimately aware that the lives of the targets are utterly destroyed."
www.gangstalking.ca/
http://houston.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35540.php


http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2...636_comment.php
Psychopath Employers Are Stalking Ex-Employees Hoping To Induce Suicide

by Worker Saturday December 04, 2004 at 11:36 AM

The rich-man's game it to destroy the lives of ex-employees and induce suicide if possible.

Just what you'd expect from Bush's America.

It appears that corporations are using gang stalking to silence employees who know too much:

The reasons for why a person is initially targeted can vary.

Sometimes the person may be a political activist.

Others may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Corporations apparently have even been known to hire these stalking groups for reasons that only they can fathom.

Many times these stalking gangs may be lied to about the target, thinking that perhaps the person is a pervert who needs to be driven out of town.

The reasons are only limited to the imagination.

In some cases, according to Lawson, the person has done nothing wrong but is used as a practice target or as an example to others in the group to show what will happen to them if they 'defect'.

This serves to keep the members of these stalking groups tied to the group through intense fear of becoming a target.

It is such a terrifying prospect because the gang members are intimately aware that the lives of the targets are utterly destroyed."

http://www.gangstalking.ca/



This GangStalking.ca site seems to have moved to here:

http://gangstalking.stalkingbyproxy.net

...

Anyway ... this all has reminded me of this phenomena in Spain:

Hat's the way to shame debtors into paying their dues
Published Date: 22 August 2008
By Jason Webb in Madrid

IF MORE confirmation were needed of the funereal state of Spain's economy, it can be found in the shape of The Debt Collector in Top Hat and Tails.

That's a translation to English of "El Cobrador del Frac", the name of a company which specialises in sending men dressed like extras from a 1930s Fred Astaire film to humiliate debtors into paying up. Business is booming.

"At the start of the year we noticed demand was increasing," said Juan Carlos Granda, the head of El Cobrador del Frac's international department.

Working with a theatricality that would not be tolerated in many countries, the company's Madrid headquarters has a distinctly macho atmosphere.

Its offices are full of men in dark suits – the company does not employ female debt collectors because they are not deemed imposing enough.

With Spain's economy on the edge of recession as a property boom crumples, Mr Granda expects El Cobrador del Frac to enjoy years of bonanza as it clears up debts left by consumers and companies during years of financial fiesta.

Spain's household debt is at record levels, above 120 per cent of gross domestic product, a result of the easy credit facilitated by euro membership which long allowed people to live far beyond their immediate means.

The corporate sector, especially in property and construction, is also struggling to make ends meet as the housing market freezes and the value of property assets becomes increasingly doubtful.

With unemployment of 10.4 per cent the highest in the European Union, the issue of how to get people to pay what they owe has become more vital.

Banks generally collect their own debts, but many companies with unpaid bills turn to debt collectors like El Cobrador del Frac, which buys debts at a discount before trying to collect them. It claims a success rate of about 70 per cent.

Mr Granda refers to the top hats and tails, whose appearance has unnerved so many Spanish debtors, as the company's "uniform".

"We send collectors in uniform and collectors without uniform. It depends on how the debtor reacts. If we need to do it to collect a debt, we send a collector wearing top hat and tails, so his debt attracts more attention," he said.

"If you're a debtor, I'll make sure that everyone who knows you knows that you owe money," Mr Granda explained. "Your neighbours, your clients, your suppliers. You're not going to like that."

Consumer groups don't like it either.

Enrique Garcia, a spokesman for Spain's consumers and users organisation, said complaints against debt-collecting firms such as El Cobrador del Frac were rising as the economy turned ugly.

Embarrassment is what El Cobrador del Frac is all about.

Mr Granda is now eyeing a new profitable market: foreigners living on Spain's coasts who believe they have left their debts behind in their home countries. The company is employing immigrant collectors to deliver the bad news to their compatriots in their native languages.

"At first they're astonished," said a Cobrador del Frac collector, Manfred Gunther, describing how Spanish-domiciled Germans reacted when he showed up on their doorstep in costume. "Then they do everything they can to make sure you don't come back. And there's only one way to do that: by paying."

Page 1 of 1

• Last Updated: 22 August 2008 12:04 AM
• Source: The Scotsman
• Location: Edinburgh

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/topstor ... 4417270.jp
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8421
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:28 am

It's all very interesting to consider as a possibility, but is there really much evidence to suggest that these sorts of gang stalking concerns really do represent a widespread problem?

If some of the people making the complaints are suffering from mental disturbance unrelated to organized harassment, how do we sort out the valid cases?
American Dream
 
Posts: 19838
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby psynapz » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:40 pm

American Dream wrote:It's all very interesting to consider as a possibility, but is there really much evidence to suggest that these sorts of gang stalking concerns really do represent a widespread problem?

If some of the people making the complaints are suffering from mental disturbance unrelated to organized harassment, how do we sort out the valid cases?

Well I guess we have to rely on our rigorous intuition.

(Does it have to be widespread to be a problem?)
“blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project” - Hugh Manatee Wins
User avatar
psynapz
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: In the Flow, In the Now, Forever
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:44 pm

From Eleanor White's website:

Please remember Theresa "Terri" Schindler, who died of judicially mandated organized stalking on March 31, 2005, TORTURED by denial of water for 14 days, while "police" (behaving as Nazi thugs) arrested 47 heroes who tried to get Terri WATER in her hospice prison. Even dying cancer patients get ice chips in their mouth to ease their suffering, while Terri was denied ALL liquid. The criminals who tortured Terri to death only allowed her last rites Holy Communion ONE DROP OF WINE to make sure Terri dehydrated faster! God PUNISH the criminals in government who ordered Terri's torture!

And by the way, Terri had a number of doctors, one a Nobel prize nominee in neurology, who examined her and/or reviewed her medical records and certified to the court that they considered this 41 year old woman an eminently good candidate for substantial rehabilitation, and that she was NOT vegetative.

The MEDIA is as responsible for this crime as the "judge", george greer, by publishing the lies put forth by Terri's husband. Terri's "husband", michael schiavo, tortured Terri for over a decade by denial of even the most basic human needs. He ordered nurses to not brush her teeth, to keep Terri's window shade drawn all the time, to not treat her bed sores.

michael also continuously discarded any photos and religious items Terri's family and friends tried to give her. He would capriciously withdraw Terri's family their visiting privileges. michael is the embodiment of a DEMON, nothing less.

Terri COULD WALK AND TALK in a limited way at first, but after a decade of no therapy, she had lost some of her abilities, FAR from all, however. Even in her last days, she was responsive to parents and friends who were allowed only SHORT visits as she was being executed.

Finally, SPECIAL thanks to Gordon Watts of Lakeland, Florida who came very close, losing an appeal vote by only one, 4-3, to saving Terri by his private citizen's petition to the Florida courts!
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:58 pm

    From the U.S. Department of Justice special report, January 2009, NCJ 224527, titled Stalking Victimization in the United States (link to pdf):

    During a 12-month period, an estimated 3.4 million persons
    age 18 or older were victims of stalking. Stalking is defined
    as a course of conduct directed at a specific person that
    would cause a reasonable person to feel fear. The Supplemental
    Victimization Survey (SVS), which is the basis of
    this report, was conducted in 2006. The SVS identified
    seven types of harassing or unwanted behaviors consistent
    with a course of conduct experienced by stalking victims.
    The survey classified individuals as stalking victims if they
    responded that they experienced at least one of these
    behaviors on at least two separate occasions. In addition,
    the individuals must have feared for their safety or that of a
    family member as a result of the course of conduct, or have
    experienced additional threatening behaviors that would
    cause a reasonable person to feel fear.

    The SVS measured the following stalking behaviors:
    • making unwanted phone calls
    • sending unsolicited or unwanted letters or e-mails
    • following or spying on the victim
    • showing up at places without a legitimate reason
    • waiting at places for the victim
    • leaving unwanted items, presents, or flowers
    • posting information or spreading rumors about the victim
    on the internet, in a public place, or by word of mouth.

    While individually these acts may not be criminal, collectively
    and repetitively these behaviors may cause a victim
    to fear for his or her safety or the safety of a family member.
    These behaviors constitute stalking for the purposes of this
    study.

    Number of offenders
    About 6 in 10 stalking victims stated that the perpetrator
    was a single offender (appendix table 3). A much lower percentage
    of victims reported being stalked by two (18%) or
    three (13%) offenders.


So about 31% of 3.4 million stalking victims report being gangstalked.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12887
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:01 pm

psynapz wrote:
(Does it have to be widespread to be a problem?)


No but reports of subjective experiences of gang stalking are widespread and most of them lack any sort of independent corroboration whatsoever.

Not only would genuinely being the target of such harassment cause mental disturbance but there are also people out there who might imagine they are a target for various reasons. There might even be people out there who are flat out lying about this.

So the task of separating the wheat from the chaff is unescapable...
American Dream
 
Posts: 19838
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:33 pm

barracuda wrote:
    From the U.S. Department of Justice special report, January 2009, NCJ 224527, titled Stalking Victimization in the United States (link to pdf):

    During a 12-month period, an estimated 3.4 million persons
    age 18 or older were victims of stalking. Stalking is defined
    as a course of conduct directed at a specific person that
    would cause a reasonable person to feel fear. The Supplemental
    Victimization Survey (SVS), which is the basis of
    this report, was conducted in 2006. The SVS identified
    seven types of harassing or unwanted behaviors consistent
    with a course of conduct experienced by stalking victims.
    The survey classified individuals as stalking victims if they
    responded that they experienced at least one of these
    behaviors on at least two separate occasions. In addition,
    the individuals must have feared for their safety or that of a
    family member as a result of the course of conduct, or have
    experienced additional threatening behaviors that would
    cause a reasonable person to feel fear.

    The SVS measured the following stalking behaviors:
    • making unwanted phone calls
    • sending unsolicited or unwanted letters or e-mails
    • following or spying on the victim
    • showing up at places without a legitimate reason
    • waiting at places for the victim
    • leaving unwanted items, presents, or flowers
    • posting information or spreading rumors about the victim
    on the internet, in a public place, or by word of mouth.

    While individually these acts may not be criminal, collectively
    and repetitively these behaviors may cause a victim
    to fear for his or her safety or the safety of a family member.
    These behaviors constitute stalking for the purposes of this
    study.

    Number of offenders
    About 6 in 10 stalking victims stated that the perpetrator
    was a single offender (appendix table 3). A much lower percentage
    of victims reported being stalked by two (18%) or
    three (13%) offenders.

So about 31% of 3.4 million stalking victims report being gangstalked.


I'd say it a bit differently. About a million people reported being stalked and/or harassed by more than one other person each year. Some substantial chunk of these reports must simply be teenagers who file reports of being bullied by multiple individually.

Gangstalking, however, refers very specifically to the active manipulation of reality by an organized group. Apparently its not just stalking as defined in the DOJ report but things like, getting stalkers to follow the alleged victim as they move, over the course of years, from home to home, posing as neighbors. Or large-scale organized "street theater." Etc. The contours of the alleged phenomena seem fairly well-defined. If one thing can be said of the phenomena, based on its alleged victims' reports, it is that it would be expensive as hell to carry out.

The notion of a pseudo-governmental agency that invests huge amounts of money in the choreographed big-budget production of harassing random citizens by imposing alternative realities on them lacks any plausible rationale. Which, I guess, is not to say its impossible.

The comic book on White's website is worth a look ( http://www.multistalkervictims.org/targ.htm ), though I don't find it convincing. It basically proposes the existence of an extensive shadowy organized crime syndicate that recruits average citizens (and presumably in overwhelmingly huge numbers if even a fraction of the GS reports are true) to fuck with the heads of GS targets. I find it telling that one instance from the cartoon features the previously loving parents of an adult child suddenly being co-opted by this network. Their instructions from said network? To tell the target to see a psychiatrist.

ps. Somehow I have seen this video still almost every time I read about GS. It is from a video in which an alleged target tried to document her stalkers. Every time it strikes me that these two gentleman look pretty much exactly like, well, two gentleman smoking a spliff in the park and wondering why the hell some strange lady is videotaping them and, ironically, perhaps wondering if she's a cop.

Image
Last edited by lightningBugout on Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:44 pm

And this is from the people who are going to expose the gaslighting?

What an incredible mindfuck!

What is going on here?
American Dream
 
Posts: 19838
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby psynapz » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:52 pm

lightningBugout wrote:The notion of a pseudo-governmental agency that invests huge amounts of money in the choreographed big-budget production of harassing random citizens by imposing alternative realities on them lacks any plausible rationale. Which, I guess, is not to say its impossible.

Bolded for realism.
“blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project” - Hugh Manatee Wins
User avatar
psynapz
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: In the Flow, In the Now, Forever
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:58 pm

psynapz wrote:
lightningBugout wrote:The notion of a pseudo-governmental agency that invests huge amounts of money in the choreographed big-budget production of harassing random citizens by imposing alternative realities on them lacks any plausible rationale. Which, I guess, is not to say its impossible.

Bolded for realism.


Are you kidding? I'm in no way disputing the bold part. But its target is the populace at large and is disseminated via channels that effectively reach millions of citizens at once and shape consensual reality at a very large scale. I just don't think it is likely or plausible that said apparatus invests a great deal of time, money or energy in the lives of random individuals.

Alternatively, I think its quite possible that the genesis of ones identification as a GS target could easily be 1) an attempt to articulate waking up to the reality of the intelligence state, but getting hung up on ego, etc. and/or, as Willow pointed out on another thread, 2) un-recognized historical experience with MC finding expression in the GS narrative.

In sum, I don't think that "mental illness" or delusion is the only plausible alternative to GS being factually accurate.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby DeltaDawn » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:35 pm

We cannot discount 'gangstalking' or 'mobbing', it's just a fact of life, and finally we have police and other authorities who are actually admitting that they are aware of these happenings.

Mobbing, usually past employment who want to keep something quiet, main purpose is to either shut you up or make you appear to be too crazy to even listen to. This is the point of gaslighting remember.

On a more disturbing level are the people who are gangstalked with the distinct purpose of making them crazy. Such as MC programs by possibly very high authorities..idk.. But we ask, why would someone would put that much money into such an effort? Wellll...if you've already put money into a 'project' and they have gone 'amuck' such as not being controlled anymore or not being institutionalized yet....then maybe you would continue to spend a little more money to make sure they are either, finally institutionalized due to gaslighting, or at least maybe disregarded because of being considered a 'nut' by local police etc.

It just seems to me that there are too many stories, and even police, judges, & DHS department officials finally speaking out, for us not to consider that there is a lot of this going on. Yes, we can question who these victims of harrassment are, we can even consider that many are using it as an excuse for 'insanity/delusions', or we can try to understand why so many are complaining of being victims, why some are coming out and saying it's not to be spoken of, and why some are even saying they are recruited to stage such atrocities......bottom line, the victims have not usually done anything to merit such drama and confusion in their lives. IMHO...very sad subject!!

edited for grammar & spelling
For we have not been given the spirit of fear; but of love, peace and a sound mind
User avatar
DeltaDawn
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:07 pm
Location: USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests