JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

[chump]

Good interview with Russ Baker, Family of Secrets

"We can't be checking up on every shooting scrape in the country!"
LBJ to Hoover, Nov. 25th, 1963

[sunny]

bumping in hopes John Judge will weigh in.

[RocketMan]

bumping in hopes John Judge will weigh in.

He visits here...??

[sunny]

bumping in hopes John Judge will weigh in.

He visits here...??

Yes, he's in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11544

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Hmmm....Russ Baker...how about ole Russ?

> He only regurgitates really really old info on cover-ups that most Americans already know about and material that was covered by others many many years ago.
Nothing new.
- 20 years ago there was 'The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush' by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin which exposed the intelligence heritage of Prescott and GHW Bush.
- 18 years ago ONI Bob Woodward was outed in 'Silent Coup' and even earlier by Jim Hougan in 'Secret Agenda.'

> He was a contributing editor to the Columbia Journalism Review, a major CIA media stronghold which has never once mentioned this nation's oldest media watchdog, Project Censored, which began exposing the omissions of the mainstream media (CIA) back in 1976.

> He was off overseas 'teaching journalism' in countries occupied by the US when 9/11 happened, a classic State Department 'nation-building' role.

> He won't touch the hoax of 9/11. Like many other gatekeepers.

> He seems to represent the CIA mainstream media's strategy of staking out an 'investigative whistleblowing' spot on the internet to co-opt the Left Intelligentsia and steer them away from the electric fence topics.
But isn't the murder of JFK an electric fence topic? Yes. But the vast majority of Americans already suspect and have for years according to polls.

So this JFK topic could serve as his perfect credibility prop to gain the trust of the online Left.
And that's what spook infiltrators do, offer up a cred prop of good info to gain trust and acquire audience attention.

But then...

[MinM]

Hmmm....Russ Baker...how about ole Russ?

> He only regurgitates really really old info on cover-ups that most Americans already know about and material that was covered by others many many years ago.
Nothing new.
- 20 years ago there was 'The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush' by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin which exposed the intelligence heritage of Prescott and GHW Bush.
- 18 years ago ONI Bob Woodward was outed in 'Silent Coup' and even earlier by Jim Hougan in 'Secret Agenda.'...

There's something to be said however for getting the information out there so that people will look for great books like Jim Hougan's - Secret Agenda: Watergate, Deep Throat and the CIA :


Of course Oliver Stone based JFK on...

Oliver Stone: JFK and the Unspeakable

Oliver Stone
Award-winning filmmaker
Posted: July 23, 2009 05:05 PM

The murder of President Kennedy was a seminal event for me and for millions of Americans. It changed the course of history. It was a crushing blow to our country and to millions of people around the world. It put an abrupt end to a period of a misunderstood idealism, akin to the spirit of 1989 when the Soviet bloc to began to thaw and 2008, when our new American President was fairly elected.

Today, more than 45 years later, profound doubts persist about how President Kennedy was killed and why. My film JFK was a metaphor for all those doubts, suspicions and unanswered questions. Now an extraordinary new book offers the best account I have read of this tragedy and its significance. That book is [James Douglass's JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters. It is a book that deserves the attention of all Americans; it is one of those rare books that, by helping us understand our history, has the power to change it.

The subtitle sums up Douglass's purpose: Why He Died and Why it Matters. In his beautifully written and exhaustively researched treatment, Douglass lays out the "motive" for Kennedy's assassination. Simply, he traces a process of steady conversion by Kennedy from his origins as a traditional Cold Warrior to his determination to pull the world back from the edge of destruction.

Many of these steps are well known, such as Kennedy's disillusionment with the CIA after the disastrous Bay of Pigs Invasion, and his refusal to follow the reckless recommendations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in resolving the Cuban Missile Crisis. (This in itself was truly JFK's shining moment in the sun. It is likely that any other president from LBJ on would have followed the path to a general nuclear war.) Then there was the Test Ban Treaty and JFK's remarkable American University Speech where he spoke with empathy and compassion about the Soviet people, recognizing our common humanity, the fact that we all "inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's futures. And we are all mortal."

But many of his steps remain unfamiliar: Kennedy's back-channel dialogue with Khrushchev and their shared pursuit of common ground; his secret opening to dialogue with Fidel Castro (ongoing the very week of his assassination); and his determination to pull out of Vietnam after his probable re-election in 1964.

All of these steps caused him to be regarded as a virtual traitor by elements of the military-intelligence community. These were the forces that planned and carried out his assassination. Kennedy himself said, in 1962, after he read Seven Days in May, which is about a military coup in the United States, that if he had another Bay of Pigs, the same thing could happen to him. Well, he did have another "Bay of Pigs"; ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/oliver-st ... 43924.html

Covert History: Huffington Post: Oliver Stone plugs JFK and the Unspeakable

Looks like Stone is following this up with a documentary:

Oliver Stone To Produce Documentary Series

NEW YORK — Showtime says filmmaker Oliver Stone is producing a 10-part documentary series on what he calls the secret history of America.

The series will focus on events of the past 60 years that went underreported when they took place, but crucially shaped the nation's history.

Showtime says newly discovered information on the Kennedy administration, the Vietnam War and America's role in the world since the fall of communism will be explored.

Stone, the Academy Award-winning director of "Platoon" and "Born on the Fourth of July," will serve as executive producer and narrator for the series. It's set to debut next year on Showtime.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/1 ... 62774.html

Now with this latest project he leans primarily on Jim Douglass and Edwin Black:


With the predictable media response.
Oliver Stone's 'Secret History' to put Hitler 'in context'--The Live Feed | THR

Jewish leaders blast Oliver Stone for his Hitler 'empathy' - NYPOST.com
...
rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - The Nazis as Leftists Meme and The Night of the Long Knives

rigorousintuition.ca - View topic - JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

[MinM]

Meir Doron, left, and Joseph Gelman wrote a book on Arnon Milchan, which says he at one point sold nuclear-triggering devices...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/18/busin ... ywood.html


Arnon Milchan between a couple of Hollywood actors.

JFK Movie Executive Producer outed as Isreal Arms Dealer - Arnon Milchan acts a lot like Tibor Rosenbaum

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 21#p192721

[JackRiddler]

I don't put much stock in remote viewing as a source for this "insight", perhaps Obscure Reading might fit. All the early researchers, including Mae Brussell, Penn Jones, and Jim Garrison believed that the fatal head shot came from the storm sewer drain hole on the north side of Elm Street to the right front of the motorcade at frame Z-313, the fatal head shot. Mark Lane and others moved the location up to the Grassy Knoll in the late 60s and it has stuck. I happen to believe that the best evidence points to the storm sewer, a good hidden military location. I think the gun involved may have been a .38 caliber pistol not a rifle, since a .38 shell was found on the south side of Elm and pocketed by an unidentified FBI agent who can be seen pocketing it in photos by a Dallas Morning News reporter, a bullet never to be seen again. Penn Jones ran the photos in his book Forgive My Grief. On the 30th anniversary of the JFK assassination a candlelight vigil was held on the Grassy Knoll at night and I took a single candle down to the sewer instead. Here are my reasons for thinking it was the actual source of the shot, regardless of claims that the windshield would have blocked the shot, etc.

It is a good, covert location for the shot allowing quick escape. The sewer has been altered over the years and the open manhole cover used to come to my armpits, now to my waist, but at the time it provided a long drain opening (6 feet or more) not obstructed by subsequent tarring built up over the years in repairs and for Stone's film, and ample room to crouch inside with a clear view up Elm Street for the shot.

The drain pipe, large enough for a small man to crawl through, goes northward and intersects with a vertical pipe that opens under a drain cover at the intersection of the railroad overpass abutment and the picket fence atop the Knoll. At least one credible witness saw a man passing a gun to someone inside that drain after the shooting from across the railroad tracks. The north route of the pipe comes out at the Trinity River plain, where some information suggests a plane was landed to pick up escaping gunmen. Taken across the street to south Elm, Penn Jones told me he crawled east and upward on Elm and came out at a grate in the basement of the Dallas Jail where both Oswald was killed and Ruby got his cancer.

While people saw smoke rise from the Grassy Knoll area and saw shooters up there at the time, there were people in the motorcade who reported smelling gunpowder smoke inside the cars, including Governor Connelly, and some of the Secret Service agents in the rear of the president's car. The Grassy Knoll smoke rose up over the trees according to S.M. Holland and other eyewitnesses. This gunsmoke was drawn out of the sewer, in my view, by the passage of earlier motorcade cars and smelled by the people in the cars further back.

Eye- and earwitnesses in the area reported hearing final shots that sounded different than the others and echoed. It is also possible that the sewer shot was done with a silencer, since not all the other guns were silenced by any means. Lots of people heard shots from multiple directions and some may have been for distraction. Secret Service agent Kellerman, in the front right seat of Kennedy's limousine, heard a "flurry of shots" according to his testimony and yelled "Get us out of here!" to the driver, who had been braking the car during the events after the first shot, counter to training to speed up at the sound of gunfire. His action has been speculated on by some as a response to shots he thought were coming from the front of the motorcade or on the railroad overpass.

The physical effect of the fatal head shot drives Kennedy back and to the left, at over 100 mph accelerating at over 100 feet per second/per second. Far too fast for "jet effect" or for Jackie to have pushed him, as one counter-critic speculated. Watch the Zapruder film closely. Kennedy is also lifted up out of his seat by the shot. A shot from the Grassy Knoll would have driven him down into the seat and back.

The best X-ray and other autopsy evidence we have indicates that his aide Malcolm Kilduff was right at the press conference that day at Parkland Hospital to put his finger to the right front temple as the point of entry. All the doctors at Parkland and other medical personnel who saw the exit wound state that it was a large flap at the back and atop the skull. also consistent with an upward trajectory from the sewer.

On the 40th anniversary, the only motorcade Dallas police escort still living who was in the event, Billy Hargis recounted his stark memory of that day in the Dallas Morning News. He was on a moving motorcycle at the left rear of JFK's limousine. He said that the skull and brain matter went up in an arc and came down on him. It hit him so hard, through his leather jacket, that he stopped the motorcycle and asked "Am I hit?" This is also consistent with a shot from below.

One skull fragment was found on the south side of Elm Street well behind the limousine position. A .38 bullet was picked up on the South side of Elm near the opposite storm sewer in the aftermath of the shooting. Jackie climbed out of the limousine to retrieve a part of JFK's skull on the rear trunk, and held onto it for a long time afterward. All of this is still consistent with a right to left, front to back trajectory and also upward in my view.

As to the identity of the gunmen, that sort of information rarely gives us much to work with even if we could confirm it. None of the shots came from Lee Harvey Oswald or his alleged weapon, that much is for sure. He did not fire a gun that day, he was as he said "a patsy". Gunmen are generally cutouts who will not know or cannot tell who hired them for the job. There is one interesting account by Mikhael Medvedev in "Treason is My Daily Bread" which came out in England in the 80's, long after the sewer shots were forgotten (until History Channel's "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" revived the claim by pretending to discover it through another self-aggrandizing researcher who crawled through the pipes for them. Medvedev claims to have worked for both Soviet and German intelligence at different points during WWII and then being folded into the Gehlen Organization (General Reinhard Gehlen, head of Hitler's intelligence network for Armies East, who knew far more about the Soviet Union than American OSS did or British, having cross penetrated the KGB and Nazi spies who shared the White Russian and "Solidarist" agenda of reclaiming the throne for the Russian monarchy and ending the spread of Bolshevism forever. Gehlen was approached by spymaster Allen Dulles before the end of the war with a surrender offer which he accepted. He brought documents and hundreds of Nazi spies for surrender at the Swiss Border and was "captured" by the aide-de-camp to American General Thrasher, Clay Shaw, who later appears as one of the main suspects in the Garrison prosecution. Shaw is now known to have been a witting CIA informant and operative abroad through Permindex and Centro Commerciale Mondiale (World Trade Center, in New Orleans, in Dallas and in New York City - ring any bells?). CIA director Bobby Inman admitted in public that Gehlen's spies, who came to the US, were the foundation of our CIA and the Cold War. Gehlen himself headed up post-war German Intelligence, thereby linking almost every important spy agency that existed to manipulate world events). Medvedev claims that Gehlen had him working in South America when he was asked to travel to Dallas and shoot a man in a motorcade from a storm sewer. Maybe he is just like the rest of the "I killed Kennedy" canaries that sing from the songbook of our years of research, adding verisimilitude to a lie. Maybe not. The lack of credence in the storm sewer shot by that time and the relative total obscurity of his account argue for another interpretation. Mae Brussell certainly thought so, and wrote about this and many other links to Gehlen in "The Nazi Connection to the JFK Assassination" in The Rebel long ago. Some of her work is online now.

You don't answer the question of "Who Killed Kennedy?" by identifying gunmen and shot trajectories. You only need shots coming in two directions to posit a conspiracy. It's not "how" that matters, as Mr. X says to Garrison in "JFK" it's "who and why". To pretend that this is still an inscrutable mystery at this late date, or some form of dilettante gossip that allows permanent agnosticism is not only wrong-headed it is fatal to democracy itself. We not only could have known, we were told loud and clear that it came from the highest levels of control in the government by the flawed investigation, the total capitulation of the press to the official version for all these years, and the absurdly composed Warren Commission which included Allen Dulles, fired by Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs, among other luminaries who were busy covering up the truth. Not even the investigative staffs could agree with the Report draft, which was written by Rudolph Otto Winnacker, one of 26 official historians for Hitler's Reich, brought instead to the Army Historical Division by General MacArthur's intelligence director Charles Willoughby and hidden there to write the history of WWII and later of the JFK assassination. It might just be coincidence that his working partner in the project was still at the Army Historical Division into the 2000s, Alfred Goldberg, who in his 90s by then wrote the official AHD report on the attack on the Pentagon on 9/11.

The patsy is a much more reliable source to identify the plotters involved in the conspiracy since they have their hands all over him. Oswald's extensive background in Naval Intelligence, his phony defection to the Soviet Union and his double planted in Mexico City weeks before the assassination to link him to Castro, were all part of the implementation of Operation Northwoods, a plan proposed by the Joint Chiefs and rejected by Kennedy to create a traumatic national incident that could possibly be blamed on Castro to allow a military invasion that had been desired since Kennedy refused to call in air cover during the intentionally failed Bay of Pigs operation. His death was a military coup-detat to overthrow Castro, stop a detente with the Soviet Union and maintain the nuclear testing and arms race, and to stay in Vietnam, reversing Kennedy's clear orders to pull out by the end of 1964. It prevented him from "scattering the CIA to the four winds". Oswald's survival in the arrest at the Texas Theater prevented the planned and already staged invasion since he was a talking head not a dead Red and could blow the operation by speaking. He was silenced by Jack Ruby instead before going to trial and the only source of his statements while still alive are recorded from press conferences and other testimony by Mae Brussell in "The Last Words of Lee Harvey Oswald" printed in People's Almanac 2 by the Wallaces. Castro's prescient analysis three days later appears in "History Will Not Absolve Us" by Dr. Martin Schotz as well. "Spy Saga" by Phil Melanson will deconstruct Oswald for you. To get the whole picture read Jim Douglass's "JFK and the Unspeakable" to get up to speed. You don't need remote viewing to solve the Kennedy assassination, just common sense and reading ability. Nuff said?
John Judge
Coalition on Political Assassinations
http://www.politicalassassinations.com

[barracuda]

Please note of the 22 Warren Commission staff attorneys, fully nine of them were Jewish. Another was married to a Jewish woman. Additionally, several others had known, intimate connections to the Israeli lobby in America.

Is this the same Michael Collins Piper who's a columnist for David Duke's website, as well as Willis Carto's American Free Press?

Why yes, I believe it is.

[Jeff]

Is this the same Michael Collins Piper who's a a columnist for David Duke's website, as well as Willis Carto's American Free Press?

Why yes, I believe it is.

Thanks for catching that.

This is an anti-fascist board. Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Yah, the Piper route is poison.

JFK pissed off every power demographic in the US and they all wanted him dead.
The Israelis were getting the nuke fuel they wanted from the plant in Apollo, Penn. anyway, nothing to complain about.

[JackRiddler]

.

The Piper article is among the most blatant uses of "find-the-Jew" technique I've ever seen posted here. All actors in the play fall away as inconsequential, only the ones who can be identified as Jews or somehow "Zionist" have agency. The narrative is already written in advance: if an Israeli interest can be found or fabricated, then that necessarily and always was what it was about. It mutilates the well-established evidentiary history of the 1963 coup d'etat by the CIA and the generals. It's a perfect example of "big tent" or let's give equal credence to "alternatives" regardless of the evidence, with the result that the stink of insane "conspiracy theory" falls on any attempt to say anything about the coup, other than official story.

Above I posted John Judge's one major contribution to the RI board:
posting.php?mode=reply&f=8&t=24521#pr414728

[fruhmenschen]

We brought James Douglass to speak in Maine a year ago. Part of the reason was to give Maine artist Robert Shetterly
a chance to paint his portrait as part of his Americans Who Tell the Truth Series. see http://americanswhotellthetruth.org/pgs ... uglass.php

There are infinite ways of looking at the JFK assassination.

Back in the 1990's we brought Ed Tatro to speak not once but twice about his research into the JFK murder.
As a college student Tatro attended the Clay Shaw trial in New Orleans during the late 1960's. Ed recently was contacted by the History Channel to script and assist making the last program in their 9 part series called THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY. Tatro's segment was aptly called THE GUILTY MEN.
The History Channel aired the show then pulled it off the air after fielding complaints from the FBI. The History Channel has banned the show and refuse to sell it
but you can view it here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKxhhnD8MS4

There are infinite ways of looking at the JFK assassination.

Back in the 1990's we brought retired FBI agent Wesley Swearingen to speak about his book called FBI SECRETS see
http://www.amazon.com/FBI-Secrets-M-Wes ... 0896085015
We arranged for Mr Swearingen to travel up to Vermont after speaking in Maine where filmaker Roz Payne scheduled him to speak at a sold out conference hall.
While in Vermont Swearingen was interviewed by Payne on video where he discusses working on the FBI Racial Squad in San Fransisco whose role was to neutralize black activists/politicians by any means necessary. You can see the interview here
http://www.newsreel.us/index.html
http://www.newsreel.us/life.htm
http://www.lib.washington.edu/ougl/spot ... m_list.pdf
More recently retired FBI agent Wesley Swearingen went on to write a poorly written book detailing how he knew the JFK assassination
would take place a year before it happened. There is enough meat content to keep you JFK carnivores happy. see
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep2/fbi-cia ... ation.html

There are infinite ways of looking at the JFK assassination.

I choose to view the JFK assassination as a logical consequence when humans hire bodyguards to protect them
I currently advocate that we patrol our own communities, hire third party forensic investigators when we need to and base
out criminal justice system on the restorative justice model.
see http://www.restorativejustice.org/

[Skunkboy]

I am reading Mr. Douglass's book right now and this paragraph on page 41 just jumped out at me.

With the acceptance of such attitudes, despair of peace was a given. Thomas Merton wrote of this Cold War mentality: "The great danger is that under the pressures of anxiety and fear, the alternation of crisis and relaxation and new crisis, the people of the world will come to accept gradually the idea of war, the idea of submission to total power, and the abdication of reason, spirit and individual conscience. The great peril of the cold war is the progressive deadening of conscience."

In this day and age of drones, waterboarding, and never-ending war, we have just traded the Communist boogie-man, for the Terrorist one. Forty nine years later, and nothing has really changed, except the technology is better. Shall we go see Zero Dark Thirty, or stay home and play Black Ops II ?

[H_C_E]

Well, to say that there is overwhelming evidence that Marcello did it
is rather superficial. By that reasoning so did the CIA, the FBI, Giancana
the anti-Castro Cubans, and others. There's an abundance of evidence for many
having done it. Sadly the people responsible for the cover-up have done such a
great job, we'll never know who did what for sure.

But the Mafia alone DID NOT have the ability to orchestrate the cover-up
with the compliance of the CIA, FBI, Dallas Police etc.

After having studied this intensively for almost a decade, I've come to feel
that the the most likely explanation is that many parties with vested interests,
each their own, were involved.

Douglass's book is excellent, and is in my top ten. But I don't think JFK's
peace efforts alone were fatal to him. I think equally as fatal were the efforts
to stop the Cosa Nostra, and that a rabidly insane Right-Wing thought he'd
sold the US out to Communism also played a role. So did the oil depletion
allowance, and the loss of profits for the military industrial complex by not
being able to put weapons into use in Vietnam.

If you're serious about understand what can be understood about the death of
JFK, the following titles are essential:

The Last Investigation - Gaeton Fonzi
The Man Who Knew Too Much - Dick Russell
Someone Would Have Talked - Larry Hancock
JFK And The Unspeakable - the aforementioned Douglass
Destiny Betrayed (2nd ed.) Jim Dieugenio
Plausible Denial: Was the CIA Involved in the Assassination of JFK Mark Lane
Bloody Treason: On Solving History's Greatest Murder Mystery : The Assassination of John F. Kennedy - Noel Twyman
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott
Not in Your Lifetime Anthony Summers

Here's one I'm really looking forward to. It's been getting pushed back
again and again since last spring:

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Order-Investigating-Synchronicity-Assassination/dp/1936296551/ref=pd_sim_b_20