RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Free » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:28 am

Peatreed wrote:
Hardly an inviting environment for welcoming inclusion to those many victims watching and waiting for an avenue of investigation and informative research.


News Flash- Behind the scenes: death threats, data mining, breaking into peoples email accounts, posting peoples real names without permission, etc, do not create a safe environment.

I agree though that those who were falsely accused deserve profuse apologies from their accusers.

Cosmic Cowbell clarified that he was not accusing Lilipat.

Lilipat has been one of the most respectful contributors on this board. Her good will and sincerity are obvious in her writing and interactions with other posters. I hope she’s okay and eventually will be able to give us her point of view.

If I’m understanding correctly, this has nothing to do with peoples views. It’s not about persecuting or banning people for their views. It has to do with behavior. Posters being identified and harassed outside of here is a behavior so serious that Jeff has considered shutting down the board. Isn’t this enough of a reason to put away our differences and look for ways to make R,I, a safer place?
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Telexx » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:31 am

Col. Quisp wrote:thanks for the clarification, sw. Probably just coincidences.

Wanted to agree with whoever said they don't like seeing the skull imagery here. What are we, a bunch of 16 yr old boys obsessed with death?

I don't want to leave (not that I'd be missed) but the atom bomb set off by a few people here leaves quite a stink. Nice work.


Hi Colonel!

The atom bomb wasn't this thread honey; this thread was the diffusing of the atom bomb.

Although this thread looks like the meta-threads ('RI is broken' type threads) that have sprung up here more and more, in fact it will prove to be the antidote to those threads.

This thread was a convulsion, but it was just the abreaction that RI's collective unconscious needed. If from here comes further disclosure, further release of pressure on those who try and keep this board from going to shit (because that's the real issue here - people's emotional and physical safety) then we can all get back to enjoying this space that's provided for us.

Cheers,

Telexx
Me: Take your meta-model questions, and shove them up your arse.

Pedant #1: How, specfically, should I do that.

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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:47 am

Free wrote:Peatreed wrote:
Hardly an inviting environment for welcoming inclusion to those many victims watching and waiting for an avenue of investigation and informative research.


News Flash- Behind the scenes: death threats, data mining, breaking into peoples email accounts, posting peoples real names without permission, etc, do not create a safe environment.

I agree though that those who were falsely accused deserve profuse apologies from their accusers.

Cosmic Cowbell clarified that he was not accusing Lilipat.

Lilipat has been one of the most respectful contributors on this board. Her good will and sincerity are obvious in her writing and interactions with other posters. I hope she’s okay and eventually will be able to give us her point of view.

If I’m understanding correctly, this has nothing to do with peoples views. It’s not about persecuting or banning people for their views. It has to do with behavior. Posters being identified and harassed outside of here is a behavior so serious that Jeff has considered shutting down the board. Isn’t this enough of a reason to put away our differences and look for ways to make R,I, a safer place?

There are much better ways that this mess could have been handled.

After reading through this mess, I'm still not sure who the bad guys are.

It seems that the OP and Et attacked a number of people and it took another member CC, to finally get a some what straightforward account of what is going on.

What disturbs me is that if you want to go after the 'trolls' you better be sure they're a troll before you 'out' them. There are way too many apologies here, that indicate that due diligence was not practiced here before the accusations were made public.
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:54 am

eyepen wrote:At a minimum the body count is Uncle $cam, wombat, smiles, vigilant, maybe lily pat, and maybe some more. People have been banned around here lately tinkering with your sensitivities.


Let's not allow our language to completely leave the fucking building here.

I am not a victim in any of this, at worst I was annoyed by having my day job questioned by people who (still) don't even understand what I do.

I should probably contribute that I've been threatened/harassed online a lot -- definitely more often than I get accused of being an enemy agent, and I'm up into the double digits on that milestone, too. Because of that, I'm a lot more sympathetic to what's going on here. I've gotten incredibly weird and threatening emails, voice mails, and even direct letters from people who were clearly into spooking me out. Unfortunately for them, I'm also a psychotically stubborn Vermonter with a high tolerance for Weird.

Back when Skilluminati was overlapping with DE's work, I got contacted by a lot of the same players, I think. The key difference: I have a lot of other shit on my plate, like sex, drugs and hip hop, as well as several thousand other websites. Pro Tip: Just plain "not engaging" these people really is a good way to make them lose interest in you.

But I'm not lecturing, here. I'm weird and quasi-unique. Most people emphatically don't have the disposition to handle a harassment campaign in such a nonchalant way. And I'd also admit that I've flat-out dropped a line of investigation due to a much more personal/disturbing and direct form of "harassment" from people who were probably not just fucking with me. (Although, a tip of the hat if they were just pulling a prank -- you sure as shit convinced me.)

So I'm adding all this because 1) don't paint me as a victim, I was here for that whole inquisition and it was fun, and 2) if you've been on the receiving end, these people sound a whole lot less "paranoid."
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:57 am

But I would add this is not to discourage you guys from questioning what's happening here. That's valuable, too.
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Cordelia » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:18 am

Free wrote:Cosmic Cowbell clarified that he was not accusing Lilipat.

But his initial words did come across as accusations.

I agree with DoYouEverWonder, there are much better ways that this could have been handled.

I leave the thread feeling like I participated in a witch hunt where some of the guilty were rounded up, some probably escaped scot-free, and others were innocent but hanged anyway.
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:28 am

cordelia, you are undeniably awesome, but that hyperbole is clouding things badly

words on a screen, words on a screen, words on a screen
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby nathan28 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:33 am

Wombaticus Rex wrote:cordelia, you are undeniably awesome, but that hyperbole is clouding things badly


+1, because I can't respond to what I'm seeing without using "STFU" a lot.
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby OP ED » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:47 am

nathan28 wrote:
Wombaticus Rex wrote:cordelia, you are undeniably awesome, but that hyperbole is clouding things badly


+1, because I can't respond to what I'm seeing without using "STFU" a lot.


that's because you're a horribly grouchy person.
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby nathan28 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:56 am

OP ED wrote:
nathan28 wrote:
Wombaticus Rex wrote:cordelia, you are undeniably awesome, but that hyperbole is clouding things badly


+1, because I can't respond to what I'm seeing without using "STFU" a lot.


that's because you're a horribly grouchy person.


you'd be right.
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:02 pm

Almost any thread on the board that reaches twenty pages rather obviously needed to be started. People have things to get off their chest, and they need to be said. Nothing is gained by witholding genuine thoughts under some nebulous fear of what others may think of you when you say them. That idea is exactly counterproductive to whatever progress a discussion of any kind can produce.

eyepen wrote:At a minimum the body count is Uncle $cam, wombat, smiles, vigilant, maybe lily pat, and maybe some more. People have been banned around here lately tinkering with your sensitivities.


Eyepen, I know at least one thing about your perversely disingenuous statement above: it is wrong. Uncle $cam has some bruises, maybe, but he has my support, and he knows it. Wombaticus Rex has made it quite clear, several times, that he can take it. Elfismiles is all grown up, and can clearly handle this kind of attention and questioning with aplomb. LilyPatToo has had her story told by Cosmic Cowbell, with the result that it is clear that she is a genuine article. And vigilant...

Vigilant has been banned twice from this forum, but is posting on this very thread, as you very well know.

eyepen wrote:My post count may be low but i'm not a newbie to these alley ways by a long shot. Everybody here knows me even if they don't realize it. I've been through these dusty hallways a long time and I am friends with a lot of people here.


So in other words, you are admitting that you are a user posting under an alias. Fine. Who are you and how many aliases have you had here? Come fucking clean. Quit jerking my chain, and reveal why it is that we should know you. You've lied to Jeff already in this thread, as well as pointed readers to the very pages which sort of started this issue, TLS, so decloak and clarify, you mother.

Enough of that.

Here's my thing: compared2what? is one of my personal heroes here. I support her prose, her persona and her pratfalls, unreservedly, as people do for those they consider to be superlative artists and friends. There will be those of you who may feel that you'll have a hard time dealing with her after "what she did". She hinted to me that she was going to do the spoiler, so I wasn't really surprised by this thread. But I have to say, I was, and remain, an admirer of her courage to say what she thought she must. That's a hard thing to do sometimes, and this must have been one of those times.

But - Jeff, the admin of this board did not formally apprise me that Et in Arcadia Ego was still an at large here. And I wish he had, as the lack of that information has left me feeling a bit adrift. It would not have changed my decision to take on the "responsibility" of moderation, but it would have changed the tenor of that decision. So in many ways, I was as surprised by many aspects of this thread and the various twists and turns as anyone else here. If I had been consulted directly about the tactics shown here, I would have advocated that Cowbell's narrative be brought into the discussion at the outset. It might have backgrounded the uninvolved board members, and drawn them in as a community.

As for the various folks here who have avoided responding in this thread, I applaud you. You have shown reserve, or disdain, or contemplation, or apathy, but you have shown it. Rock on.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby beeline » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:07 pm

.

Wow, I take a few days off and this is what happens? Although, I kind of feel like the ugly girl at the seventh-grade dance, what with no one outing me as a sockpuppeteer or argonaut or anything. Not that I need outing, but y'know, it might have been nice. I'm never going to lose my virginity!

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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby Cordelia » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:47 pm

nathan28 wrote:
OP ED wrote:
nathan28 wrote:
Wombaticus Rex wrote:cordelia, you are undeniably awesome, but that hyperbole is clouding things badly


+1, because I can't respond to what I'm seeing without using "STFU" a lot.


that's because you're a horribly grouchy person.


you'd be right.


Probably, but some days I think hyperbole is a staple in the RI larder and I feel well fed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVoQfoU0dQ

(I don't think everyone liked the attention they were getting on this thread.)
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We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:36 pm

doyoueverwonder wrote:and it took another member CC, to finally get a some what straightforward account of what is going on.


I realize you qualified this statement with that "somewhat", however I wish you had further qualified it by saying "and it took another member CC, to finally get a some what straightforward account of what they believe is likely going on." because CC was very careful to offer disclaimers along the way, like, "Again, much of what I've written regarding this issue is speculation on my part, some with decent but circumstantial evidence to back it up, some not. It is this fact that causes me to request others to add or correct me if I've gone astray. The fact remains however, that there is bad, bad acting afoot here, and has been for awhile. That is not speculation." I think it would be a very good idea to keep that in mind at all times when reading through what CC has pointed at. I myself have not made it entirely through the alien abduction monarch thread as it is 35 pages long. CC has put forth a monumental effort for the benefit of the board and I thank them for it, but it would be a crime to ignore the unselfconscious disclaimers that go along with it. There is no substitute in any of this for thinking for yourselves, but I for one will gratefully accept any help I can get.


Barracuda,

I pretty much second your thoughts and sentiments except for this, "As for the various folks here who have avoided responding in this thread, I applaud you. You have shown reserve, or disdain, or contemplation, or apathy, but you have shown it. Rock on.", mainly because you left cowardice off your list. It's a horrible character flaw of mine that I can justify cowardice in the form of silence on the perfectly sensible grounds that I need to do more research first.

For those that have expressed sentiments along the lines of, "This thread and threads like this are what is wrong and are counterproductive and rather than fixing anything just make things worse" that's exactly what I would expect the trolls and their minions to say. This is not to say that anyone that has said something like that is automatically under suspicion of being a troll or an ally of trolls because from a certain point of view it's not an entirely unreasonable opinion to have, but its worth considering that in saying it you are aiding and abetting the trolls and their allies, witting or unwitting.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: RI "Bad" Guys: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Postby freemason9 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:45 pm

SanDiegoBuffGuy wrote:I guess in high school this thread would be called a "nerd fight."

I'm with Alice on this one. This thread only makes this place look like a tabloid. Jeff must realize how damaging this must be to what he has created. This place has been like my newspaper, but without the drama I've accused others of in their departures I think I have better things to do than to read stuff like this, hoping for something substantial. So, for me, a break from here is in order. There's a whole world out there and I just have better things to do.

I wonder how many people Jeff has lost by having this thread here, those who will not make egotistical dramatic departures but who will silently slip away to devote their energies to more meaningful things?


Ahaha, between "WTF" and "I hope they're not discussing me," I've been solidly bemused by this entire thread. And yet, it's so much like a train wreck . . .

This could be the big policy discussion prior to the Great Purge, you know. We may be witnessing a reenactment of the Little Red Book revolution, scaled down to blog size.
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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