Are you Aspergian?

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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Percival » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:11 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Have you ever seen the IT crowd?

I am not sure what you mean, elaborate.


Understand that I am not trying to suggest that all aspies are as described above and it can certainly manifest itself in a more harmless manner such as someone like Jeff, who tested for aspie and who is brilliant and artistic, but its still the same type of obsessive personality disorder that leads to that sort of artistic brilliance that can also manifest itself as a paranoid white supremacist, for example. It can be good or bad but generally speaking I am not following how a less empathetic population means less sociopathy or, for that matter less dickheads and assholes in power.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:58 am

I dunno if its as simple as "a less empathetic population."

Thats probably not a great description of Aspberger's or Aspies themselves.

Consider the British version of the IT crowd, and compare the nuts in the boardroom to Moss.



Most people who struggle with social interaction when young then learn turn into considerate intelligent people. At least in my experience, in fact struggling with something is usually a prerequisite for being a half decent human.

Sociopaths and psychopaths just don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. If you were gonna compare that to people with Aspbergers I'd say they certainly give a fuck but struggle to express it.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:18 am

153. Yay.

It does make a lot of sense though. I am petrified of things I shouldn't be and yet extremely rebellious on most other shit. Socially, I am essentially fine, but I worry far too much. Which has turned into a mantra of "if I don't worry, who will?". Good times. My empathy level, which some think is a claim to fame, is dialed way too high and I consider a curse. Only when I get drunk and am about to go to bed do I ever feel normal. Normal thoughts, normal reactions, lack of fear, love, romantic love. But when I get out there in this goddamn world do I anymore have a hard time of it. Pressure on my back muscles like you wouldn't believe. Leads to the head too. I knew I had OCD, but now I guess I'm an ass burger.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:57 am

Percival wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:Good, at least we won't have to put up with so many downright psychopathic arseholes in power everywhere.

Asies in charge

(BTW I didn't do the test, I did one years ago but can't remember what I scored. I do know that when I did it I thought about the different "mes" that inhabited my body at different ages, and would have got different results at different times.)

I have seen this exact sentiment expressed several times now in this thread and I am not following the logic.

How do you figure that people suffering from emotional blindness would be less psychopathic?

The very definition of socio/psychopathy is the inability to feel emotions. If anything, a trend towards an emotionally detached population would lead to more sociopathy and psychopathy not less.

The dickheads and assholes you speak of in power today are people who have no emotional attachment or empathy for others, which is exactly what aspergers is being described as.

I think people need to consider what this all really means. Its not good. Hiter would be a fine example of an aspie. Obsessed, focused, emotionally blind, no empathy or compassion for the suffering of others.

I am not trying to suggest that everyone here with aspergers is another Hitler but if you dont have the ability to feel emotions you are likely suffering from an axis II personallity disorder of some sort, aka as a sociopath.

I bet dollars to donuts Bush is an aspie.

When I go to a website like Stormfront what I see is a bunch of aspies, people who are narrow-minded and obsessed with no empathy and compassion for others and who see strange patterns and connections all around them and blame Jews for everything wrong in the world. That, to me, is what I am seeing described as aspergers and I see it all over the internets these days.




How is this promising?



Here is what I think. Aspies require a world that is set in stone. I never even thought of myself as an aspie until I took that test today. But the more I have delved into this thread and elsewhere, I have no doubt.

So the STONE of the "set in stone" part is the deal. What is this stone we speak of? We do not know.

Having OCD, I realize that language courses though our minds and tells us things we cannot get rid of. I am no different than others. But I am in how I perceive myself. Through myself, I perceive others.

I perceive myself as on it's own but entirely connected to the rest of life as we know it on Earth. Plants and animals. (Sadly I am not a vegan). But idiots that make money from me having this "disorder" do not get it. The disorder is them!

While fine people making a living, pdocs and counselors are effectively morons who do nothing other than skim off the top of the pain they potentiate via the money they think they are getting as suitable return on their time spent building up biz that spans their sad pasts and the hope that riches will return to them in the form of their investments in "education". The truth is, they have caused this by defining it. But none of them say "hey! this doesn't work!". It works because, and in good faith, it simply lines their pockets. Which to me is psychotic.

Every moment of every $80 session last year I had with this dude after a breakup, I left feeling I was the one that needed to explain to him how it works. Yet I PAY HIM. But others who love you do not see you making "progress" until they see you're going to "see somebody". It is utter, incontrovertible bullshit. And this is what causes "breakups". The technocracy of the matter. All things must be done under a doctor's care. Rebel from this stage and you are fucked more than ever. The people you love leave you, they chide you and ultimately destroy you.

I'm doing very well
I can block out the present and the past now
I know by now you think I should have straightened myself out
But you dropped dead.

Oh, something is squeezing my skull
Something I can barely describe
There is no love in modern life

I'm doing very well
It's a miracle I've even made it this far
The motion of taxi's excites me
When you feel it, but not bite me.

Oh, something is squeezing my skull
Something I cannot describe
There is no hope in modern life

Oh, something is squeezing my skull
Something I can't fight
No true friends in modern life

Diazapam
That's Valium
Tarmazepam
Lithium
HRT
ECT
How long must I stay on this stuff?

Don't give me any more
Don't give me any more
Don't give me any more
Don't give me any more

Please Don't give me any more
Don't give me any more
Don't give me any more
Don't give me any more

You swore you would not give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more

Don't give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more

Please don't give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more

You swore you would not give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more

You swore, you swore, you swore

You would not
Give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more
Give me any more
Morrissey -- Something is Squeezing my Skull
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby justdrew » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:30 pm

82_28 - you shouldn't self-diagnose based on a multiple choice quiz.

aspergers is a totally socially defined matter, there is no known biological basis for the diagnoses. Nor is there any basis to say that people who can be thrown into the "aspie" bucket have the same fundamental condition as persons suffering with traditionally defined concept of Autistism. This "spectrum" they talk about it bunk. No one denies that persons presenting on the severe end of this theoretical spectrum have a medical problem, no one's exactly sure what it is yet, but there's something there. Lumping persons who can be classed as "high functioning" or Aspergian in with that group only weakens research and treatment and care for the severely suffering population and quite possibly utterly side-tracks the on-going research.

There's another recent article out there with a headline claiming that "new study shows why some kids are bullied" - the reason? They don't act right! Talk about blame the victim... You see they don't respond appropriately to subtle social cues, misinterpret or are blind to such subtle non-verbal stuff. The "study" in question had a lot of problems, I'll try to find the article later on the right site, where I found it had some very good comments...

What's really going on here I think is a segment of what they like to call Normals are simply discriminating against alternative neurotypes, and not just alternative neurotypes that can be classed on this bullshit "autistic spectrum" (the spectrum theory has resulted in the diagnoses becoming the "last bucket" - if parents are bringing a kid in and the kid can't be diagnosed any other way, they fall into the high functioning autistic label. Sometimes parents advocate for it. adhd has many of the same issues.) This discrimination all too often leads to social isolation and an inherent lack of basic human interactions. Take any "normal" kid and subject them from a young age to the same degree of ostracization and medicalization of their basic nature and they will end up demonstrating many of the same traits as a "high functioning autistic" - there needn't have been any medical issue had the person been treated as a human being should and must be.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby semper occultus » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:13 pm

The DSM: How Psychiatrists Redefine 'Disordered'
By John Cloud Saturday, Feb. 13, 2010

*link*

The attempt to catalog all the ways that Americans can go crazy dates at least to 1840, when the Census included a question on "idiocy/insanity." From those two simple categories, we now have more than 300 separate disorders; they are listed in a 943-page book called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM for short. The book is important because doctors, insurers and researchers all over the world use it as a reference, a dictionary of everything humanity considers to be mentally unbalanced.

This week we got the first comprehensive look at what might go into the book's latest version, the DSM-5. Currently, the DSM is disjointed and disorganized — at times well researched and at times anachronistic. The present version, the DSM-IV-TR (the TR stands for "text revision"), was published in 2000. It begins with "mild mental retardation" moves on to common illnesses like depression and odd ones like dyspareunia (painful sexual intercourse not due to a medical condition) and ends with the vague "personality disorder not otherwise specified." The rhyme and reason behind the DSM have always been murky; the book, like our brains, is a huge, complicated beast.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA), which publishes the DSM, has long wanted the fifth version to be a more rational, understandable document, but that's not proving to be easy. Publication has been delayed at least twice, and the association now doesn't expect to produce DSM-5 until 2013, 14 years after research on it began. One reason is that there are so many stakeholders: patients, shrinks, HMOs, academics. Patients want their illnesses covered; shrinks need to get paid academics want definitions to be consistent with research — research that is itself uneven. Sometimes, DSM changes can be made on the basis of long-term, peer-reviewed studies. But other times, such gold-standard research data is lacking, and changes must be made on the basis of consensus among clinicians. The process is fraught and confusing, even for those in the middle of it.
(See how to prevent anxiety.)

Still, the launch of dsm5.org — where suggested changes to the DSM were posted Feb. 10 for public comment — is a major step. Here are five ways the APA is proposing to address major criticisms of older versions of the book:

1. Contain the definition of a mental illness within sensible borders.
A major problem with earlier versions was mission creep: In 1980, the APA published DSM-III, which radically expanded what clinicians could define as disordered. One example: depression. The pre-1980 definition had described "depressive neurosis" as "an excessive reaction of depression due to an internal conflict or to an identifiable event such as the loss of a love object." The much longer 1980 definition (which carried on into DSM-IV and DSM-IV-TR, with slight modifications) omitted the requirement that symptoms be "excessive" in proportion to cause. In fact, the revised manual said nothing about causes and listed symptoms instead.

To be diagnosed with major depressive disorder today, you need have only five symptoms for two weeks, which can include such common problems as depressed mood, weight gain, insomnia, fatigue and indecisiveness. The current DSM does make an exception for bereavement: if you recently lost a loved one, such symptoms are not considered disordered. But the manual doesn't make exceptions for other things that make us sad — divorce, financial stress, a life-threatening illness.

The proposed revisions would change that and once again take into account severity of symptoms. The new definition of all mental disorders would include the proviso that they "must not be merely an expectable response to common stressors and losses."

2. Define mental disorders along a continuum rather than as binary possibilities.
When he spoke at a New York City DSM conference last year, Harvard provost Dr. Steven Hyman, a former director of the National Institute of Mental Health, argued that most mental disorders cannot be seen as discrete all-or-nothing illnesses like leukemia (which you either have or don't). Rather, he said, they should be seen as "continuous with normal," less like leukemia and more like hypertension. Hyman seems to have won the battle here — in particular, social-interaction disorders like autism and Asperger's will now be defined along a single spectrum (autism spectrum disorders), rather than as separate conditions. The proposed change has brought controversy: many high-functioning people with Asperger's disorder would rather not see themselves in the same category as those whose autism is so severe that they cannot dress themselves.

3. Address the problem of including certain minor addiction disorders (caffeine intoxication) but excluding others (compulsive gambling).
These are relatively infrequent diagnoses, but they seem highly capricious. Isn't compulsive gambling a sign of a bigger problem? Isn't caffeine intoxication usually an accident? That's one reason the whole category of "substance-related disorders" has chipped away at the authority of the DSM. The new DSM would rationalize the system. There are no plans to change the diagnostic criteria of "caffeine intoxication" (essentially, drinking so much coffee or Red Bull that you go nuts, at least temporarily), but the APA is considering whether "non-substance addictions" like compulsive gambling, shopping and eating are related to traditional substance abuse — and, if so, how. Also, it has proposed re-titling the category of substance-related disorders to "Addiction and Related Disorders." No decisions have been made, but this research process is promising and long overdue.

4. Overhaul the strange grouping of personality disorders.
Currently, personality disorders include everything from the debilitating, often deadly illness known as borderline personality disorder to the dated, rather sexist "illness" known as histrionic personality disorder, a symptom of which is that the sufferer "consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self." Who doesn't do that?

In the DSM-5, histrionic personality disorder would be eliminated, and personality disorders would be reduced to five key types: antisocial, avoidant, borderline, obsessive-compulsive, and schizotypal (a word for so eccentric that you don't get along with others).

5. Rethink the definitions of sexual and gender identity disorders.
Today, heterosexual men can be diagnosed with a supposed disorder called "transvestic fetishism" if they meet only two criteria: they have sexual fantasies about cross-dressing, and those fantasies cause "impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas." What's more, the DSM considers aversion to sex a sex disorder, even though the condition has less to do with low sex drive than outsized feelings of fear and avoidance — more like a phobia.
(Read why overcoming phobias can be so daunting.)

The DSM-5 proposes to update this category by including "hypersexual disorder." Although the name sounds like something Han Solo might have had, the proposed criteria make sense: sexual fantasies take up so much time that they become repetitive, debilitating and harmful to normal functioning. Also, "sexual avoidance disorder" would be dropped and "transvestic fetishism" would become "transvestic disorder," although the diagnostic criteria themselves would not change: the DSM still seems to have a problem with cross-dressing.

Overall, the DSM-5 is shaping up to be a much better reference than its predecessor. There will be months of negotiations — anyone can register at dsm5.org to comment, and consumer groups, day-to-day therapists, research psychologists and many others will have a say. But give the APA one thing: it seems to acknowledge, finally, that it is not the sole arbiter of what makes a person crazy.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Maddy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:39 am

I have no idea if I ever took this here before.

Your Aspie score: 118 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 105 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

Image

I kind of have no idea what the chart means, some of it. Its confusing to me. I don't know what "hunting" means.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:58 am

Hunting played a huge part in the development of our physicality.

Watch indigenous Australians play football, especially Australian rules, and especially people whose families were still hunting a generation or two ago, and those that sometimes still do.

Its easy to see this as some sort of "noble savage" bullshit, but the fact is that only a generation or two ago those people were dependent on physical and interprative skills that are really appropriate to the game. I spose other cultural things, like dancing and warfare helped too.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Maddy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:02 am

Oh. So literally. I wasn't sure about that. Perhaps as a survival skill? If so, why didn't they say "survival"? Also my "perception" was only a 1/2 degree different between Aspie and Non. No real spike there.

I'm really unsure how to read this. It didn't come with any manual.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:05 pm

Your Aspie score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 77 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

I happen to know that I'm not an Aspie. I am however Schizoid, which is somewhat similar, but not really. I did the full version of this test (or a very similar one, only much bigger. About 600 statements that had to be scored true/false) about a year ago, and I have to say I was impressed with the result . The woman who analyzed it and scored me had never met me before, but she described my personality to me accurately and in detail based on my answers. She could also tell that I'd been honest in my answers, since there are small "traps" hidden in the test to detect lies.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby NeonLX » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:50 pm

Maddie and I have almost identical scores and mapping. I'm a worry-wort and an insomniac, prone to really bad funks and depressions. But I also love to laugh at sh!t. And I'm a real geek about some kinds of data (but none of it data that's important to others, it seems). I also have ADD something fierce.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Plutonia » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:11 pm

You certainly don't want to consider that test 100% conclusive, though if you were wondering, it might encourage you to look a little closer.

Here's the Aspie Quiz evaluation page, which includes several neurodiverse correlates: http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/

And the guy who created the quiz is still participating at the Gestalt forum, if anyone has Q's for him - his nick is rdos: http://asdgestalt.com/viewtopic.php?p=73517#p73517
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby wordspeak2 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:17 pm

"Nor is there any basis to say that people who can be thrown into the "aspie" bucket have the same fundamental condition as persons suffering with traditionally defined concept of Autistism. This "spectrum" they talk about it bunk."

Amen! Justdrew said it. I've worked with severely autistic people, and I have good friends labelled classic Asbergers, and I see zero relation between the two. There is something mysterious about autism to me, and I think "Asbergers" is kind of interesting, too, though I see it as societal, much more than biological.
I'm personally about a 50/50 split. I have some of the Aspie characteristics really intensely, like the desire to be alone almost all the time, obsessions, sexual abnormality, etc., but socially I'm perfectly normal; I don't miss social cues or not know when to talk on the phone.

I have two friends, a couple, who consider themselves classic Aspies, and I suppose they are. The father of one of them write a book about his experience living with Asbergers. Anyway, the two of them go around giving speeches about Asbergers and their relationship, and they were even featured in a major New York Times article recently, which focused on their relationship and "finding love while living with Asbergers":
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/na ... .html?_r=1
And they were featured on an NPR segment on Asbergers and romance:
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/18/145405658 ... ith-autism
It was pretty bizarre for me to hear all of this stuff. I knew one of the two of them for years before ever associating the term "Asbergers" with him. Though now I see he's a classic case. But a classic case of what? Being socially alienated and nerdy? Obsessive and outside the TV-watching norm? This is not a disease. Or not a biological one, not really. It's various types of social alienation caused by a whacked out society. And there's the good, creative side of it, when righteous people fit the profile- the Jeff Wells'- but then also I suppose the dark side of it- the Stormfronters; you're probably right. I don't know exactly. But I feel like it's simpler than classic autism, which is more concrete yet manifests differently in different cases; i.e. I know the Dustin Hoffman "Rainman" stereotype has some truth to it, because I lived with an autistic young man for a while, and I saw that in him, a bit below the surface, but I saw it, a genius light energy. I think this all can be hard to talk about because we're given these terms by psychiatry, but I think the terms and parameters in which we're thinking of these things are mostly invalid, or at least not black and white. But it's not a "spectrum" from Asbergers to severe autism, and if it does come to be that Asbergians are just called autistic that would further obfuscate things.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby wordspeak2 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:29 pm

Btw, cutting-edge research on the psychedelic drug MDMA for healing people with Asbergers and autism. Makes a lot of sense! MDMA opens up ones' emotions and brakes down social barriers, facilitates empathy and connectedness- just what Aspies need. When I saw this I was surprised I hadn't thought of it myself.

**MDMA Research News**

**1. MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for Autism Study Proposals Accepted Until December 16**

We are welcoming [proposals for a MAPS-sponsored pilot study of MDMA for
Asperger's syndrome and Autism Spectrum
Disorders](http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/Autis ... 4Oct11.pdf) from
interested researchers until December 16. A number of people with high-
functioning autism and Asperger's Syndrome have reported improvements after
taking MDMA outside of research contexts. MDMA shows promise for treating
Autism Spectrum Disorders since the effects of MDMA that increase empathy and
enhance communication are precisely the abilities that autism tends to
degrade.

MAPS is offering a grant of $10,000 for protocol development expenses for this
pilot study. We have prepared a [Request for Proposals
(RFP)](http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/Autis ... 4Oct11.pdf) for
researchers based in the U.S. We're looking for an established research team
that would also have a good chance of obtaining funds for research from other
grant agencies, as autism research is currently a well-funded field. At
present, we have not yet raised funds for the study itself, but we do have
funds for protocol development. Once we have a completed protocol, we will
develop a budget and a fundraising plan. We will also work to raise additional
funds through MAPS and perhaps other sources.

To facilitate the protocol development process, MAPS has collected numerous
anecdotal reports from individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorders who have
used MDMA. Many of these accounts are from people who considered MDMA to be
helpful. If you or someone you know has heard of MDMA having either positive
or negative effects on symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorders or Asperger's
syndrome, we would like to hear from you. Please contact MAPS Lead Clinical
Research Associate Berra Yazar-Klosinski, Ph.D., at
[berra@maps.org](mailto:berra@maps.org).
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:28 pm

Are you Aspergian?


Or, in other words: Are you smarter than most people, more sensitive than the plebs, vaguely alienated, kinda lovably wacky, and above all High-Functioning?

Take a bow: you have the hippest Personality Disorder available.

There's something wrong with this picture.

Image

Advanced Member of the Species iPad Case

Everyone knows that Aspies are Advanced Members of the Species... and if they don't let them check out this cool Aspie Tee.
$40.99

Image

http://www.autisticgenius.com/



The giveaway is that cutesy "Aspie" label. "I'm an Aspie!" Well, hot diggity, hats off to you. But people don't go around calling themselves Depries or Schizzies or Narcies or Alkies or Psychopathies, least of all on T-shirts and iPhone cases. I wonder why not. Maybe the Creative Head of some ad agency can look into it. (I bet he's an "Aspie" too.) Because vast potential markets are lying fallow as we speak, or rather as we maintain a charismatic brooding silence, Aspily.

Image

Yep, he always reminded me of me. No wonder I have an iPad.

Dare to be Different Itouch2 Case

Image

Whether you have autism, know someone with autism, or don't realize you know someone with autism, everyone should dare to be different.
$18.99


"Have autism"? "With autism"? Sic. There's something wrong with those words. Or is "autism" really like the flu, or like an iPad? Is it something you can just pick up, or buy?

Certainly, "Aspergers" is the DeLuxe edition. And I'm not buying it.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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