Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

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Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby Ben D » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:45 am

Breaking news...

http://wireupdate.com/wires/2919/polish ... in-russia/
Polish president and first lady among 132 dead in presidential plane crash in Russia

Saturday, April 10th, 2010 at 8:18 am

MOSCOW (BNO NEWS) -- Polish President Lech Kaczynski and his wife were killed when the presidential plane crashed near an airport in western Russia.

A total of 132 people were on board the Tupolev 154 aircraft, according to the Russian Investigation Committee. The governor of Smolensk Oblast confirmed there were no survivors in the accident, which happened several hundred meters from the runway of Smolensk Airport.

According to media reports, the head of the Polish Army and former Polish president Ryszard Kaczorowski were also on board. Confirmation was not immediately available.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby 82_28 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:23 am

Well this is a fine how do ya do.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby elfismiles » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:00 am


Polish President Lech Kaczynski dies in plane crash

President Lech Kaczynski and scores of other senior Polish figures have been killed in a plane crash in Russia.

Polish and Russian officials said no-one survived after the plane apparently hit trees as it approached Smolensk airport in thick fog.

Poland's army chief, central bank governor, MPs and leading historians were among more than 80 passengers.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the crash was the most tragic event of the country's post-World War II history.

The Polish delegation was flying in from Warsaw to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre of thousands of Poles by Soviet forces during WWII.

Lech Kaczynski, file image

Obituary: Lech Kaczynski
In pictures: Plane crash
Your reaction


The BBC's Adam Easton, in Warsaw, says the crash is a catastrophe for the Polish people.

He says Prime Minister Tusk was reportedly in tears when he was told.

After an emergency meeting of ministers, Mr Tusk, who runs the day-to-day business of government, said a week of national mourning had been declared with two minutes of silence on Sunday at midday.

He said he would travel immediately to the site of the crash, in Smolensk. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir said he would go to Smolensk on Saturday as well, Russian news agencies reported.

Mr Tusk added: "The Polish state must function and will function".

Flowers and candles laid outside presidential palace in Warsaw - 10 April 2010
Thousands have gathered outside the presidential palace in Warsaw


A government spokesman said that according to the constitution there would be an early presidential election, and the speaker of the lower house of parliament, Bronislaw Komorowski, would be acting president.

In Warsaw, people have been gathering outside the presidential palace to lay flowers and light candles.

"I'm all broken up... it cannot be expressed in words," Ewa Robaczewska told Reuters news agency.

Pilot error?

The Russian emergencies ministry told Itar-Tass news agency the plane crashed at 1056 Moscow time (0656 GMT).

Smolensk regional governor Sergei Antufiev told Russian TV that no-one had survived.

BBC Warsaw correspondent Adam Easton
Adam Easton, BBC News, Warsaw

Thousands of people have gathered outside the presidential palace to pay their respects.

There has been a spontaneous outpouring of grief, no matter what people thought of Lech Kaczynski. He was a divisive figure in Polish society, especially among younger Poles.

People are just stunned, visibly moved and in tears, whether they agreed with the president's political views or not.

The largest church bell in Poland, at Krakow Cathedral, has been rung.

It never tolls generally, only for very, very solemn occasions. The last time it did so was for the death of the Polish pope, John Paul II, five years ago.


"As it was preparing for landing, the Polish president's aircraft did not make it to the landing strip," he said.

"According to preliminary reports, it got caught up in the tops of trees, fell to the ground and broke up into pieces. There are no survivors in that crash."

Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman Piotr Paszkowski said it could be assumed with "great certainty" that no-one had survived.

"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," Mr Paszkowski said.

Polish TV worker Slawomir Wisniewski said he had seen the crash from his hotel near the airport.

"I saw through the fog, the aeroplane flying very low with the left wing pointing to the ground," he said.

"I heard something being broken and then that thudding sound. Two flashes of fire next to each other."

It is unclear how many people were on board. Polish officials said the delegation was 88-strong, while local officials said 96 people had been killed.

Russian investigators had earlier said there were 132 people on the plane.

Russian media carried claims that the plane's crew were at fault for the crash.

"Flight controllers at Severnyy aerodrome suggested that the plane be forwarded to Minsk but as far as we know the crew took an independent decision to land the plane in Smolensk," Smolensk regional government spokesman Andrei Yevseyenkov told Russian TV.

Mr Putin said the bodies of those killed in the crash would be taken to Moscow for identification, Russian media said.

Controversial figure

The president was flying in a Tupolev 154, a Soviet-designed plane that was more than 20 years old.

SENIOR FIGURES KILLED
National leader:
President Lech Kaczynski and wife Maria
Other politicians:
Wladyslaw Stasiak chief of the president's chancellery; Aleksander Szczyglo chief of the National Security Office; Slawomir Skrzypek National Bank of Poland chairman;
Jerzy Szmajdzinski deputy speaker of the lower house; Andrzej Kremer Foreign Ministry's undersecretary of state; Stanislaw Komorowski deputy minister of national defence; Przemyslaw Gosiewski Law and Justice party deputy chair;
Military chief:
Franciszek Gagor chief of the General Staff
Cultural figures:
Andrzej Przewoznik head of Poland's Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites; Tomasz Merta chief historical conservator

Source: TVP1, Warsaw

History of the Tupolev-154 plane
Air disasters timeline


Our correspondent says there had been calls for Polish leaders to upgrade their planes.

Mr Kaczynski himself had suffered scares while using the plane in late 2008, when problems with the aircraft's steering mechanism delayed his departure from Mongolia. It was then caught up in turbulence flying to Seoul.

"Any flight brings with it a certain risk, but a very serious risk attaches to the responsibilities of a president, because it is necessary to fly constantly," he was quoted as saying at the time.

But the head of Russia's Aviakor aviation maintenance company told Russian TV the plane was airworthy, after his plant fully overhauled it in December.

As well as the president and his wife, Maria, a number of senior officials were on the passenger list.

They included the army chief of staff Gen Franciszek Gagor, central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek and deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer.

World leaders including Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, US President Barack Obama, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown offered their condolences to Poland.

Mr Kaczynski, who had fewer powers than the prime minister but had a significant say in foreign policy, was a controversial figure in Polish politics.

He had advocated a right-wing Catholic agenda, opposed rapid free-market reforms and favoured retaining social welfare programmes.

Image

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm


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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby whipstitch » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:37 am

Daily Mail

There were conflicting reports today of the number of people on board the flight. Russian news agencies reported at least 88 people died in the crash near Smolensk airport in western Russia, citing the Russian Emergencies Ministry. They reported 132 people were aboard the Tupolev Tu-154.

But Polish officials said 88 people were on board when the plane crashed. Sky News reported 96 dead.

Image

Pilot error has been blamed for the tragedy after it emerged he turned down the opportunity to land at an alternative runway in thick fog. Witnesses said the pilot made three or four attempts to land before crashing into woodland nearby.

According to reports, the pilot accelerated as the plane came in to land and at that point lost contact with air traffic control.

Image

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has been put in charge of a commission investigating the crash, the Kremlin said.

The governor of the Smolensk region, where the crash took place about 11am (0700 GMT), said no one survived.

"The Polish presidential plane did not make it to the runway while landing. Tentative findings indicate that it hit the treetops and fell apart," Sergei Anufriev said on state news channel Rossiya-24. "Nobody has survived the disaster."

The crash occurred about 1.5 km from Smolensk airport in foggy conditions.

State news channel Rossiya-24 showed footage from the crash site, with pieces of the plane scattered widely amid leafless trees and small fires burning in woods shrouded with fog. A tail fin with the Polish red and white colours stuck up from the debris.

Poland's president is commander-in-chief of its armed forces but the position's domestic duties are chiefly symbolic.

The president and his wife were on their way to attend a World War Two memorial service.

...

"The plane caught fire after the crash. Teams began attempting to pull out passengers from the badly damaged airplane," said a Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman in Warsaw.

Poland's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Piotr Paszkowski, said there were 89 people on the passenger list but one person had not shown up.

"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," Paszkowski said. "We can assume with great certainty that all persons on board have been killed."
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:08 am

Contrary to popular belief, planes not that safe. Even big ones. Even when you aren't being targeted by assassins.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:37 pm

Stephen Morgan wrote:Contrary to popular belief, planes not that safe. Even big ones. Even when you aren't being targeted by assassins.



Well, if we take the above news report at face value, it sounds like it was the pilot that was at fault, not so much the plane itself, as he ignored suggestions to land elsewhere due to the foggy conditions. In fact, he allegedly attempted to land the plane 3 or 4 times before clipping some tree branches.... that seems like quite a gamble/risky behavior considering the passengers on the plane -- don't they vet these pilots before flying "important" people around? And why the insistence to land there, especially after [again, allegedly] his 1st or 2nd attempt?

At any rate, as with most machines that require human operation, it's typically the OPERATOR that is at fault more often than the machine itself. Of course, that's of no consolation to the passengers or their families, but it's my understanding the Euros are a bit more lax with their flying regulations than we are here in the U.S.

I imagine more details will emerge over the next few days...
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby 82_28 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:42 pm

A Franz Ferdinand moment? :shrug:
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby The Consul » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:44 pm

I wonder if he was related to Ted.
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby Nordic » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:27 pm

Russia says Prime Minister Vladimir Putin will personally head the investigation into an aeroplane crash that killed Poland's president.


:shock:


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... tion=world
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby elfismiles » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:45 pm

Polish president killed in plane crash: the conspiracy theorists will go crazy
by Damian Thompson
Image
Damian Thompson is Editor of Telegraph Blogs and a journalist specialising in religion. He was once described by The Church Times as a "blood-crazed ferret". He is on Twitter as HolySmoke.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damia ... -go-crazy/
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby whipstitch » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:47 pm

Is missile defense in Poland still a threat to Russia? by Arn Specter

April 3,2010: The point is that the US continues to provoke Russia with the missile defense plans which include the deployment of Patriot missiles (with thermonuclear warhead capability) and troops coming into Poland within a few weeks, by mid-April.

...

With US missiles and troops on the way to Poland just how will Russia react this time? Why don't the US and Nato listen to whatRussia is saying; concerned about foreign missiles so close to their border? What will happen in a few weeks in Eastern Europe as missile defense becomes a reality after years of planning, negotiations and differences of opinion by the people of Eastern Europe as well as the governments and militarizes of all nations concerned about this risky and dangerous development? Is the United Nations and the European Union on the alert? Folks, they're not planning a picnic over there.

============================

Poland-U.S. missile deal draws anger from Russia
By Thom Shanker and Nicholas Kulish

WASHINGTON — The United States and Poland have reached a deal to place an American missile-defense base on Polish territory, in the strongest reaction so far to Russia's military operation in Georgia.

Russia reacted in anger, saying that the move would worsen relations with the United States, which had already been strained severely in the week since Russian troops entered separatist enclaves in Georgia, a close American ally.

At a news conference Friday, a senior Russian defense official, Colonel General Anatoli Nogovitsyn, suggested that Poland was making itself a target by agreeing to serve as host for the antimissile system. Such an action "cannot go unpunished," he said.

But the deal also reflected growing alarm in countries like Poland, once a conquered Soviet client state, about the intentions of a newly rich and powerful Russia in its former Cold War sphere of power. In fact, negotiations dragged on for 18 months - but were completed only as old memories and new fears surfaced over the last few days.

Those fears were codified to some degree in what U.S. officials characterized as unusual aspects of the final deal: that at least temporarily, U.S. soldiers would staff missile sites in Poland oriented toward Russia, and that the United States would be obliged to defend Poland in case of an attack with greater speed than required under NATO, of which Poland is a member.

Polish officials said the agreement would strengthen the mutual commitment of the United States to defend Poland, and vice versa.
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby whipstitch » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:13 am

Looks like Obama scrapped the original plans for missles in Poland last September...
U.S. scraps missile defense shield plans
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Obama administration will scrap the controversial missile defense shield program in Eastern Europe, a senior administration official confirmed to CNN Thursday.
The U.S. has been testing the ability of ground-based interceptor missiles to hit long-range ballistic missiles.

The comment followed similar statements from officials in Poland and the Czech Republic -- where key elements of the system were to be located -- but was the first confirmation from an American official.
and then changed course again in January...
Poland's Deployment of U.S. Patriot Missiles Conflicts With Obama's Plan
By Mdaa, PRNE
January 21st, 2010

WASHINGTON, Jan. 22, 2010 – Riki Ellison, Chairman and Founder of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance (MDAA), http://www.missiledefenseadvocacy.org has released a statement today on his reaction to the Polish government announcement of their deployment of a U. S. patriot missile defense system located in the vicinity of Morag, Poland, which is located 35 miles from the Russian border. Ellison is one of the top lay experts in missile defense. His organization is based in the old town area of Alexandria. According to Ellison:

“ An agreement with the United States, the Polish Defense Minster Mr. Bogdan Klich announced that U.S. Patriot Air Defense Units will be placed in a Polish Military Base located 35 miles from the border of the Russian enclave, Kaliningrad, which is in the vicinity of Morag, in northern Poland.

" U.S. Patriot Air Defense Units are a terminal phase missile defense system that engages and destroys missiles in the atmosphere and are designed specifically for short-range tactical missiles and aircraft over a small tactical valued area. ”

“This decision can been seen as provocative to Russia, as the U.S. Patriot Air Defense Units to be deployed can only defend a very small area which will be composed of Polish military forces that directly oppose Russian military forces across the border in Kaliningrad. This defensive system manned by approximately 100 U.S. Army Soldiers, will have the capability to defend against the Russian Iskander tactical nuclear missiles, which the Russians have threatened to deploy around Kaliningrad, if not already in place, as well as defend against other Russian short- range missiles and aircraft.”
curiouser and curiouser
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby Metric Pringle » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:09 am

They put all their eggs in one 25 year old basket, shocking. Even football (soccer) teams fly their players in different airplanes now, I think, since the Munich Air Disaster that killed half of Manchester United's Squad.
““The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.”k.” - Charles Bukowski

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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby justdrew » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:01 am

next time, take the bus...

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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Re: Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

Postby RocketMan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:20 am

I think Lech Walesa's initial comments are quite intriguing... His choice of words is quite striking. I get the feeling it's intentional.
Former Polish president Lech Walesa, who headed the Solidarity movement, called the crash "inconceivable".
"The Soviets killed Polish elites in Katyn 70 years ago. Today, the Polish elite died there while getting ready to pay homage to the Poles killed there," a shaken Walesa told AFP.
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