Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Sweejak » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:23 pm

Watch the real aerial video carefully again and watch for any sigh of the supposed violence on the faked IDF video.

Yes on that, and I don't see anyone actually getting hit. I see halftones everywhere though.
I imagine that the Marmara would have a sister ship(s). It might be interesting to see where those are.

I don't understand, I do, but I don't like it, where the word "activist" got mistaken for the word "pacifist". AFIK a "peaceful activist" is an activist with merely peaceful intentions, I know of no definition which means that if they are attacked they will lay down and die. What's really funny are the Israeli's and their sycophants in the US trying to image elite commandos as if they were clerks rappelling on deck to make an "inspection". Indeed, that is what Netanyahu actually said, they were there for an inspection.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Username » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:54 pm

~
Glenn Greenwald and Eliot Spitzer on the Gaza Flotilla
By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday June 2, 2010




You don’t often get a piece of cable TV this good, so it’s worth transcribing and posting in its entirety.

Yesterday, two Netanyahu propagandists appeared on MSNBC prior to Glenn Greenwald, painting a picture of the flotilla raid that was so grossly distorted it was unrecognizable as the incident that is being rightfully condemned around the world. Host Eliot Spitzer vigorously agreed with them, and then brought them back once again to counter Glenn after his appearance.

Spitzer was not nearly so conciliatory with Glenn, and during the interview, clips of the selectively edited IDF propaganda videos and their helpful English subtitles played continuously. In a rare and contentious eight minute cable news segment, Glenn decided to set the record straight:

ELIOT SPITZER: Now let’s bring in Glenn Greenwald from Salon.com who calls Israel’s actions quote, “heinous and repugnant” and, well let me just ask you, you have ships approaching Gaza, controlled by Hamas; Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel did (I don’t think this is disputed) offer to have the ships inspected, if there was no contraband on board, let the ships continue on to Gaza. Why was that not a reasonable offer, why should Israel not intercede to stop the flow of contraband?

GLENN GREENWALD: Well, first of all, international waters, which is where this ship was, is not owned by Israel. It is a crime, a war crime, to attack a ship in international waters that has not engaged in any aggression, and no one claims that these ships were. I mean, what you’re describing is absolute anarchy, that any country can just say, “no ships can go here, and if you disobey our order, we’re going to attack you, board your ship forcefully, and kill anybody who does resist.”

SPITZER: Well, let me interr…

GREENWALD: No, let me just finish because you just had on 10 minutes of uninterrupted pro-Israeli propaganda filled with falsehoods. The blockade is one of the most brutal and inhumane blockades that we’ve seen in the last generation. Look at UN reports that are objective, not Netanyahu aides, that say that 60% of the babies in Palestine have anemia, 65% of the population is food insecure; the entire Palestinian economy has collapsed as a result of this blockade. Israel routinely refuses to permit all sorts of imports including food, chocolate, french fries, anything but the barest necessities to keep those prisoners — which is what they are — alive…

SPITZER: Glenn, I hear you. Hold on one second. Let’s go back to Ruth Wedgewood, who is really a top-flight intellect and scholar of international law, said that nations that are a war are permitted in international water to enforce a blockade and to check to see if contraband is on board. Now, nobody has said that Israel has prevented humanitarian materials to flow through to Gaza. You may be saying there’s not enough…

GREENWALD: I just said that, the UN has said that, everybody says that. Israel constantly prevents humanitarian aid from going through to Gaza, and that’s why the claim, “oh, you just give us the cargo and we’ll take care of it for you,” is an absolute absurd joke.

For the last three years, the Israeli prime minister’s aide – top aide, when the blockade was first imposed — said, “The purpose is to put the Palestinians on a diet.” That’s what the Israeli prime minister’s top aide said about the reason this blockade was instituted. It is a completely inhumane blockade; that is that it starves the people of Palestine, as the UN says, not as I say, or as Hamas says, or as you say, or as Netanyahu aides say. Look at the objective reporting about what’s happening to that population.

SPITZER: OK, can we…let’s step back for one second. Let’s see if we can agree on one thing. Is Hamas, in your view, a terrorist organization?

GREENWALD: Hamas is the democratically-elected leadership of the people in Gaza and they’re recognized in fair and free elections as having been elected by everybody across the world, so that’s what they are. Have they engaged in terrorism? Yes. Have the Israelis, who founded the Israeli government and the Israeli state, engaged in terrorism? Yes, they have. Turkey says that what Israel just did is an act of terrorism itself. But Hamas is the democratically-elected government of the Gaza Strip and is the chosen government and is to be represented. Has Israel been brutally occupying the Palestinian people for the last 40 years? Have they or haven’t they?

SPITZER: Does it affect your analysis Hamas has as its stated policy the destruction of the State of Israel? And, in fact, Egypt as well is blockading Gaza and Hamas because Egypt as well views Hamas as a terrorist organization. So, both Israel and Egypt here are agreeing that only humanitarian materials can go through and both have as a stated objective to prevent more material from going through over this border by land or by sea. And so it would have…

GREENWALD: What you’re referring to is the Egyptian dictator that is the leading recipient of US aid, several billion dollars, billions of dollars a year, right after the Israelis. So, yes, the Egyptian dictatorship, along with the Israeli government under the patronage of the United States, all agree that the people of Gaza should be suffocated and closed off into a prison. And if you’re going to cite actions of the Egyptian dictatorship, as though that lent moral authority to this horrendous blockade. That’s pretty bizarre. Now yet…

SPITZER: Wait. In all fairness, I think, Glenn, I think what you also need to acknowledge is that Egypt is in form a democratic government as well, as is Israel, of course. And so when you say that that alone…

GREENWALD: As is Hamas. As are the Gazans.

SPITZER: Hamas has — again, let’s get agreement where we can – Hamas has stated very clearly that it wants…that the destruction of Israel is what it seeks, and therefore it is rational for people to say they are trying to get armaments, they have been shelling into Israel for many, many years, so Israel has a legitimate reason, in terms of self defense, to check to make sure that armaments are not flowing through with humanitarian resources. I assume agree with that.

GREENWALD: Nobody ever claimed or thought until today that those ships had arms, and they didn’t have arms. Not even the Israeli government claims they have arms. Everybody knew that the purpose of that flotilla was to try and deliver humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people, which is not being allowed to pass through by the Israeli government as a means of dramatizing what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. That was the entire purpose of that flotilla, and nobody ever claimed, “oh, this is a terrorist organization trying to deliver arms.” That’s an absolute, after-the-fact lie and the entire world knows it.

SPITZER: OK.

GREENWALD: So I was just saying, you could have as many Netanyahu aides on your show as you want, but the entire world outside of the United States is condemning Israel. Democracies all over the world…

SPITZER: Glenn. I appreciate your participating. I think there are startling, divergent views here about both the morality and the legality of what we’re seeing. I think, to a certain extent, you assume your conclusion when you say there are only humanitarian materials…only humanitarian materials are on those ships. That is precisely what the Israeli government said it wanted to verify.


Kudos to Barney Frank, too, who — unlike Anthony Weiner, Jerry Nadler and Kirsten Gillibrand — had strong words for Israel and is demanding an independent inquiry.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Laodicean » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:00 pm

Greenwald is freaking awesome.

And I can't believe Spitzer-Swallows has a job on television. How can anyone take him seriously anymore?
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Simulist » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:13 pm

Thanks for posting that Spitzer/Greenwald exchange.

Glenn Greenwald made his points perfectly. He also happens to be right.



EDIT: Typo.
Last edited by Simulist on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby The Consul » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:15 pm

Frank suggested "they (Israelis) can handle that internally". Translation: after 18 months a well worded white wash will make page 8 of the New York Times. Frank, as are nearly all politicians in DC - is an apologist for Israel. Spitzer is raising the flag that a country at war can board ships in international waters. Also much to do made of the kind and willing offers of Israel to bring the ship into Israeli port and sift through the goods. If only it weren't for those bastard Turks!

So, does this mean they are at war with Turkey?
When the Rachel Corrie arrives and they board and kill more people will they then be at war with Ireland?
Why....they can board any boat they want any where for any reason. Like that one guy they were leading away said....they're pirates... every bit as much as half starved glue sniffing Somali teenagers, except they have even less class... .
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby justdrew » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:19 pm

like the war criminal they went after, after one of the recent atrocities... they tried some schlub who stole a wallet. that was the war criminal, identified and caught and tried by the peerless Israeli government.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Laodicean » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:06 pm

Amos Oz's Op-Ed in the New York Times:

Israeli Force, Adrift on the Sea

FOR 2,000 years, the Jews knew the force of force only in the form of lashes to our own backs. For several decades now, we have been able to wield force ourselves — and this power has, again and again, intoxicated us.

In the period before Israel was founded, a large portion of the Jewish population in Palestine, especially members of the extremely nationalist Irgun group, thought that military force could be used to achieve any goal, to drive the British out of the country, and to repel the Arabs who opposed the creation of our state.

Luckily, during Israel’s early years, prime ministers like David Ben-Gurion and Levi Eshkol knew very well that force has its limits and were careful to use it only as a last resort. But ever since the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel has been fixated on military force. To a man with a big hammer, says the proverb, every problem looks like a nail.

Israel’s siege of the Gaza Strip and Monday’s violent interception of civilian vessels carrying humanitarian aid there are the rank products of this mantra that what can’t be done by force can be done with even greater force. This view originates in the mistaken assumption that Hamas’s control of Gaza can be ended by force of arms or, in more general terms, that the Palestinian problem can be crushed instead of solved.

But Hamas is not just a terrorist organization. Hamas is an idea, a desperate and fanatical idea that grew out of the desolation and frustration of many Palestinians. No idea has ever been defeated by force — not by siege, not by bombardment, not by being flattened with tank treads and not by marine commandos. To defeat an idea, you have to offer a better idea, a more attractive and acceptable one.

Thus, the only way for Israel to edge out Hamas would be to quickly reach an agreement with the Palestinians on the establishment of an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as defined by the 1967 borders, with its capital in East Jerusalem. Israel has to sign a peace agreement with President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah government in the West Bank — and by doing so, reduce the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to a conflict between Israel and the Gaza Strip. That latter conflict, in turn, can be resolved only by negotiating with Hamas or, more reasonably, by the integration of Fatah with Hamas.

Even if Israel seizes 100 more ships on their way to Gaza, even if Israel sends in troops to occupy the Gaza Strip 100 more times, no matter how often Israel deploys its military, police and covert power, force cannot solve the problem that we are not alone in this land, and the Palestinians are not alone in this land. We are not alone in Jerusalem and the Palestinians are not alone in Jerusalem. Until Israelis and Palestinians recognize the logical consequences of this simple fact, we will all live in a permanent state of siege — Gaza under an Israeli siege, Israel under an international and Arab siege.

I do not discount the importance of force. Woe to the country that discounts the efficacy of force. Without it Israel would not be able to survive a single day. But we cannot allow ourselves to forget for even a moment that force is effective only as a preventative — to prevent the destruction and conquest of Israel, to protect our lives and freedom. Every attempt to use force not as a preventive measure, not in self-defense, but instead as a means of smashing problems and squashing ideas, will lead to more disasters, just like the one we brought on ourselves in international waters, opposite Gaza’s shores.

Amos Oz is the author, most recently, of the novel “Rhyming Life and Death.”

This was translated from the Hebrew by Haim Watzman.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Laodicean » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:41 pm

A member of the Israeli parliament on board when the attack went down? How's this for an eyewitness account on record...

Israeli Knesset member rejects navy account of attack

Birmingham Star

An Arab member of the Israeli parliament who was on board the international flotilla that was attacked on Monday as it tried to take humanitarian aid to Gaza has accused Israel of intending to kill peace activists as a way to deter future convoys.

Haneen Zoubi said Israeli naval vessels had surrounded the flotilla’s flagship, the Mavi Marmara, and fired on it a few minutes before commandos abseiled from a helicopter directly above them.

Terrified passengers had been forced off the deck when water was sprayed at them. She said she was not aware of any provocation or resistance by the passengers, who were all unarmed.

She added that within minutes of the raid beginning, three bodies had been brought to the main room on the upper deck in which she and most other passengers were confined. Two had gunshot wounds to the head, in what she suggested had been executions.


Two other passengers slowly bled to death in the room after Israeli soldiers ignored messages in Hebrew she had held up at the window calling for medical help to save them. She said she saw seven other passengers seriously wounded.

“Israel had days to plan this military operation,” she told a press conference in Nazareth. “They wanted many deaths to terrorise us and to send a message that no future aid convoys should try to break the siege of Gaza.”

Released Tuesday by police, apparently because of her parliamentary immunity, she said she was speaking out while most of the hundreds of other peace activists were either being held by Israel for deportation or were under arrest.

Three other leaders of Israel’s large Palestinian Arab minority, including Sheikh Raed Salah, a spiritual leader, were arrested as their ships docked in the southern port of Ashdod. Lawyers said that under Israeli law they could be held and questioned for up to 30 days without being charged.

Contradicting Israeli claims, Ms Zoubi said a search by the soldiers after they took control of the Marmara discovered no arms or other weapons.

It was vital, she added, that the world demand an independent UN inquiry to find out what had happened on the ship rather than allow Israel to carry out a “whitewash” with its own military investigation.

Ms Zoubi spoke as Palestinians inside both Israel and the occupied territories observed a general strike called by their leaders.

A statement from the High Follow-Up Committee, the main political body for Israel’s Palestinian citizens, described the raid on the flotilla as “state-sponsored terrorism”.

Demonstrations and marches in most of the main Palestinian towns and villages in Israel passed off quietly. Local analysts described the mood as angry but subdued, not least because of the openly hostile climate that has developed towards Palestinian citizens since crackdowns on their protests during the Israeli attack on Gaza 18 months ago.

However, police were reported to have been put on high alert, with thousands of extra officers drafted into the north, where most Palestinian citizens live.

On Monday, clashes between protesters and police broke out close to the al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem’s Old City and in the northern town of Umm al Fahm after false rumours circulated that Sheikh Salah, the leader of Israel’s main Islamic Movement, had been killed in the Israeli naval operation.

Police were reported to have arrested 18 youths, mainly for throwing stones in various locations in the north.

Scores of Palestinians demonstrated outside the Turkish consulate in East Jerusalem Tuesday to show their support for Ankara, which has harshly criticised Israeli actions. Two demonstrators were reported to have been arrested by police.

In the West Bank, many Palestinians observed the first of three days of mourning decreed by Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, over the killings of international activists.

Even before the attack on the flotilla, the country’s Palestinian minority, a fifth of the population, had been braced for a backlash from the government and Jewish public for its leaders’ participation in the flotilla. As the ships set sail, Ynet, Israel’s most popular news website, had asked whether Ms Zoubi was an “MP in the service of Hamas”.

But faced with the severe diplomatic fall-out from Israel’s killing of peace activists, Israel’s Palestinian leaders warned that they were likely to come under even fiercer criticism in coming days.

Tuesday right-wing parties launched their first attacks on Ms Zoubi, demanding the revocation of her immunity and her expulsion from the parliament. Danny Danon, a member of the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, called for her to be “tried for treason”.

In her statement on the attack, Ms Zoubi said that at 4am on Monday she had seen at least 14 Israeli boats surround their ship 130km out at sea, in international waters.

She said the passengers had been gripped with fear at the noise and confusion as the commandos abseiled on to the deck. “I did not believe we were going to survive more than five minutes,” she said.

Taleb al Sana, another Arab MP, supported Ms Zoubi’s contention that Israeli claims that the commandos shot only at the passengers’ legs were false. “I have visited the wounded in hospital and they all have shot wounds to the head and body,” he said.

Adalah, a legal centre for Israel’s Arab minority, said nine lawyers had been given limited access Tuesday afternoon to the hundreds of activists detained in Beersheva and were trying to take testimonies “in very difficult circumstances”.

Its lawyers and human rights groups were also trying to track down who had been injured and where they being treated.

“Our view is that Israel is intentionally trying to obstruct this work and is enforcing an information blackout,” said Gaby Rubin, a spokeswoman for Adalah.


http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/201 ... -navy.html
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby The Consul » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:57 pm

compared2what? wrote:
The Consul wrote:Ed Koch on Neil Cavuto floating idea that this was the fault of Turkey, later on Barney Frank on Countdown saying same. Ok so imagine there were such a thing as a fairness doctrine. In this case we should have rebuttal from Turkish Americans, Palestinian Americans and actual real journalists and lets say ok someone from Turkey and maybe someone from Gaza....
They really do think we are hopelessly stupid. I can see the next headline

TERRORISTS ATTACK HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS WITH KNIVES AND PIPES

Israel in shock, minimises death toll by heroic sacrifice of men who jumped to the ship to try and talk peace to rabid drug fiend baby killing would be abortionist muslim terrorists found with plans to blow up Yankee stadium and ten pre schools in Kansas.
Thank god we have a free press to give us all the facts.........


Just to be clear, this:

(3) The proximate occasion for the provocation came from Turkey. That's so massively suspect in so many ways that I don't even know how to boil them down to the usual three or four 192-word sentences that send the entire board into a stupor in the luxurious style to which we've all long-since grown so accustomed.


is NOT my way of saying it's Turkey's "fault."

It's just a way of saying that if you wanted to create a set-up like the one I fear this is, no matter what side of the equation you were on, your very first choice for the role of seemingly-unallied-to-you proxy would be Turkey.

Pretty much your only choice, actually.


Interesting point. However, proximate occasion is a loose floatation device to throw to the proximate cause of fatalities in this situation, which is Israel, drowning in blood. Perhaps they can trott out Jean-Louis Bruguiere to extrapolate the IHH connection to a Montreal terrorist cell. This way they can be at war with Canada without having to get anyone wet. One can only imagine Harper was glad to see the Netanyahu go. He wonders, perhaps...are we next?
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Nordic » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:10 pm

Wow. And to think I once had a modicum of respect for Spitzer. No more.

What an ass.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Username » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:17 pm

~
Nordic wrote:Wow. And to think I once had a modicum of respect for Spitzer. No more.

What an ass.



Yeah. Me too. What happened?
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Nordic » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:24 pm

Username wrote:~
Nordic wrote:Wow. And to think I once had a modicum of respect for Spitzer. No more.

What an ass.



Yeah. Me too. What happened?
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby kenoma » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:35 pm

Amos Oz? In many ways a more perfect representation of the mendacity and supremacism of Zionism than Avigdor Lieberman or Netanyahu. That whiny bullshit in the NYT epitomises perfectly the endemic racism of Zionist "doves":

Thus, the only way for Israel to edge out Hamas would be to quickly reach an agreement with the Palestinians on the establishment of an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as defined by the 1967 borders, with its capital in East Jerusalem. Israel has to sign a peace agreement with President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah government in the West Bank — and by doing so, reduce the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to a conflict between Israel and the Gaza Strip. That latter conflict, in turn, can be resolved only by negotiating with Hamas or, more reasonably, by the integration of Fatah with Hamas.


Typical of the "Peace Now" crowd: only a processed peace that serves Israel, and one brokered only with Palestinians of their choosing (i.e. miserable quislings like Abbas).
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:29 pm

Murder on the High Seas

Worse Than North Korea

By DAVE LINDORFF

Like the cop who batters someone senseless at a demonstration and then accuses the victim of “banging his head against my baton,” Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has accused the victims of Israel’s brutal military assault on a peace convoy to Gaza of attacking Israeli soldiers. An Israeli deputy ambassador to the UN went further, saying, “What kind of peace activists use knives, clubs and other weapons to attack soldiers who board a ship in accordance with international law?''

Let’s straighten this out. The question to be asked is: what kind of country
sends troops armed with automatic weapons to assault a boat filled with unarmed, peaceful civilians, and slaughters nine (or maybe 19) of them as if they were enemy troops in a war zone?

Even Israel admits the boarded ship, the Turkish Mavi Marmara, and five smaller vessels, were in international waters. According to witness reports, including those of respected mainstream journalists who were on board the ship, IDF naval commandos, acting on the highest authority from the Israeli government, but behaving more like Somali pirates, boarded the Turkish ship with Uzi’s blazing, and continued to fire even as the activists on board had raised a white flag. The boarding, according to Marjorie Cohn, former president of the National Lawyers Guild, and other legal authorities, was illegal under international maritime law. In any event, given the fact that the ships were civilian, and the passengers non-military, even had they been in Israeli waters, the boarding could have been negotiated peacefully, had Israel wanted to do this.

There was no urgency about it. The ships were more than 60 miles from shore, and the Israeli Navy had the power to prevent the ships from landing without firing a shot. It admits it had nets that could have halted five of the vessels, and it has larger naval vessels that could have halted the Mavi Marmara, either by forcibly towing it, by disabling its rudder, or by physically blocking its way.

NPR, in a particularly repulsive report on the bloody assault, referred to it as a “bungled raid.” The New York Times, on Tuesday, in a news article, reported as fact, with no attribution, that “the operation seems to have gone badly wrong.” But this was no “bungled” action, or an action that had “gone badly wrong. “ The Israeli attack, and the deadly methods it employed, were both clearly deliberate, and had to have been intended to send a message to those who would assist the imprisoned population of Gaza, who for four years and through an Israeli invasion of that territory almost a year and a half ago, has been kept on a starvation diet by an illegal Israeli blockade.

Israel clearly wanted a violent confrontation, as it didn’t need to initiate one to stop the ships from delivering their cargo. The Israeli claim that the violence was justified because some on the boarded ship offered resistance to the IDF attackers, using metal pipes, is absurd. Israel has been fighting an unfair, uneven battle of tanks and Uzis against stone-throwing Palestinians for so long that it apparently no longer even recognizes that the rest of the world sees it for the homicidal bully that it is. Israeli special forces clearly have the training to disarm untrained attackers wielding pipes, sticks or even knives (my own 16-year-old, 130 lb., 5’7” son, with his karate training, could handle that).

The reality is that we are dealing with a pariah state, no better at this point in its respect for international law and basic human rights (where non-Israelis are concerned), than North Korea. And maybe worse. At least the North Koreans fired their weapon at a South Korean military vessel. The Israeli Defense Force attacked a vessel filled with civilian peace activists, including elderly Holocaust survivors, members of foreign parliaments, and young children.

While the captured peace activists are being held incommunicado in Israel on a military base that is closed to reporters, Israel has been gushing propaganda like a wild BP oil well, trying to make the fraudulent case that the boats were carrying contraband (ball bearings and sling-shots in one account). Such ludicrous assertions, silly even if true , hardly justify Israeli actions in the assault. Moreover, the speed with which such alleged “contraband” was “found” on a ship carrying thousands of tons of relief supplies, suggests either disinformation, or that something was planted, either by the IDF boarding party, or by Mossad agents before the ships had even set sail (the Turkish government says it carefully inspected the cargo during loading to make certain there were no weapons).

This Israeli raid confirms the total bankruptcy of Israel’s position in the world. By killing Turkish nationals and seamen and by violating the rights of a Turkish vessel, Israel has permanently poisoned its relations with the only real ally it has had in the Muslim world--a country that only recently actually allowed Israel to use its airspace to attack a suspected nuclear reactor site in Syria. It has also done enormous damage to relations with the US, where public support for Israeli policy towards the Palestinians was already tanking, following the brutal invasion of Gaza last year.

American political leaders are still scurrying around trying to avoid alienating the powerful pro-Israeli lobby in the US, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). President Obama, the recent Nobel Peace Prize winner, when confronted with the assault, could only work himself up to the point of expressing “deep regret” at the loss of life, and calling for in investigation (by Israel!) into “all the facts and circumstances” of the incident. Such limp and even-handed comments are unacceptable, and are becoming increasingly out of touch with public sentiment. Even given the shamelessly pro-Israeli slant to most US media coverage of this and other Israeli actions, many Americans, including many American Jews, are finding it harder and harder to support Israeli policy.

Yesterday my wife and I had dinner at the home of a some close friends who are Jewish. Three other Jewish couples were also present, two of whom, frequent visitors to Israel, mentioned that they were planning a trip to the country this summer. During the whole evening, there was no mention at all of the Israeli raid. It was as if we were all at the zoo looking at the tiger exhibit, and everyone was talking about rabbits. The other three couples who were guests, none of whom were familiar to me, my politics, or even the fact that I am not Jewish, said nothing. Our friends said nothing. And I clearly knew that if I said anything at all, all hell would break out. Clearly though, all the Jewish Americans present realized that the attack would be an explosive issue even amongst themselves, about which there would be irreconcilable differences of opinion.

It needs to be mentioned that those helicopters that lowered the Israeli commandos onto the ship were American-built. Most of Israel’s formidable military is either made in USA or paid for by the USA. Indeed as attorney Cohn notes, Israel is the largest recipient of US military aid since WWII. If public support in the US for Israel continues to erode, pressures to end that kind of military support will mount. Already, many in the senior ranks of the US military are criticizing America’s unquestioning backing of Israeli military and foreign policy, saying that it is leading to the needless deaths of American soldiers. Americans, even many Jewish Americans, are becoming increasingly critical of the Jewish state.

The irredentist, apartheid religious state of Israel is heading down a dead-end road.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby justdrew » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:37 pm

kenoma wrote:Amos Oz? In many ways a more perfect representation of the mendacity and supremacism of Zionism than Avigdor Lieberman or Netanyahu. That whiny bullshit in the NYT epitomises perfectly the endemic racism of Zionist "doves":

Thus, the only way for Israel to edge out Hamas would be to quickly reach an agreement with the Palestinians on the establishment of an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as defined by the 1967 borders, with its capital in East Jerusalem. Israel has to sign a peace agreement with President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah government in the West Bank — and by doing so, reduce the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to a conflict between Israel and the Gaza Strip. That latter conflict, in turn, can be resolved only by negotiating with Hamas or, more reasonably, by the integration of Fatah with Hamas.


Typical of the "Peace Now" crowd: only a processed peace that serves Israel, and one brokered only with Palestinians of their choosing (i.e. miserable quislings like Abbas).
There are no good zionists.
Boycott everything Israeli.


hey - he's offering to get behind the '67 boarder, I think everyone would be thrilled with that. If that came to pass, whatever sense of superiority he may or may not harbor in his heart would be fine by me and not an issue. Peace would change hearts in time (and time surely will).
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