Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

[Nordic]

Arguing with Percival is like arguing with the crazed homeless guy at the bus stop.

It's a waste of time.

Both are delusional and both completely believe their delusions.

[Bruce Dazzling]

Here's the text from the Love Boat vid MinM posted above.

On the 31st of May 2010 an antisemetic terror flotillia orginized by Anarchist movements and primarily - by a Turkish terrorism orginization - IHH, set out to commit an act of terrorism against the state of Israel and on behalf of the terrorist Hamas regime in Gaza in mid sea.

They masked themselves as "Peace Activists", declaring they only wish to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, however reality proved the truth - the men and woman on board were NOT Peace Activists - they were cold blooded terrorists - Primarily on the largest ship - the Mavi Marmara.

"On the other 5 boats there was a light resistance, however on the Mavi Marmara we encountered extreme physical resistance, which has absolutely nothing to do with "Peaceful Activism". Live weapon's fire was directed at our soldiers. They used hand guns, knives and metal bars and beat our soldiers violently. One of the of...ficers described it as "An full blown attempt at Lynching".
We have found that two of the civilians killed used a hand gun already emptied of it's ammunition, which testifies to the use of deadly firearms.
There were 600 people on that ship, armed with weapons, knives and metal bars."

This is NOT a peaceful humanitarian mission but a full blown terrorist act in mid-sea!

Peace activists DO NOT stack up knives and guns waiting to attack Israeli soldiers - THAT'S WHAT TERRORISTS DO
Knives nad Guns ARE NOT Humanitarian aid
Humanitarian aid can be very easily be sent through Israel to gaza for every day many trucks full of humanitarian aid is being sent by Israel to Gaza after having been inspected.

ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND IT'S CITIZENS FROM TERRORISM!
ISRAEL WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR SAVING IT'S CHILDREN'S LIVES
ISRAEL IS THE ONLY DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST BEING ATTACKED FROM ALL SIDES
ISRAEL IS NOT THE AGGRESSOR - IT IS THE VICTIM

[Percival]

Geez, lots of personal attacks today.


I said twice in several posts that Israel is as much at fault as the other side, neither side is innocent.


All I asked for, from a bunch of smug posters who have likely never been close to the region and have no idea what its inhabitants deal with on a daily basis, was if you had any alternative solutions as to how Israel could handle this situation and limit the arms getting in to the hands of Hamas militants.

Instead of solutions I have been called a troll, brainwashed, a shill and now a batshit crazy homeless dude.


Nice.


Jeff, whats happened to this place?

[Simulist]

Here's the text from the Love Boat vid MinM posted above.

On the 31st of May 2010 an antisemetic terror flotillia orginized by Anarchist movements and primarily - by a Turkish terrorism orginization - IHH, set out to commit an act of terrorism against the state of Israel and on behalf of the terrorist Hamas regime in Gaza in mid sea.

They masked themselves as "Peace Activists", declaring they only wish to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, however reality proved the truth - the men and woman on board were NOT Peace Activists - they were cold blooded terrorists - Primarily on the largest ship - the Mavi Marmara.

"On the other 5 boats there was a light resistance, however on the Mavi Marmara we encountered extreme physical resistance, which has absolutely nothing to do with "Peaceful Activism". Live weapon's fire was directed at our soldiers. They used hand guns, knives and metal bars and beat our soldiers violently. One of the of...ficers described it as "An full blown attempt at Lynching".
We have found that two of the civilians killed used a hand gun already emptied of it's ammunition, which testifies to the use of deadly firearms.
There were 600 people on that ship, armed with weapons, knives and metal bars."

This is NOT a peaceful humanitarian mission but a full blown terrorist act in mid-sea!

Peace activists DO NOT stack up knives and guns waiting to attack Israeli soldiers - THAT'S WHAT TERRORISTS DO
Knives nad Guns ARE NOT Humanitarian aid
Humanitarian aid can be very easily be sent through Israel to gaza for every day many trucks full of humanitarian aid is being sent by Israel to Gaza after having been inspected.

ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND IT'S CITIZENS FROM TERRORISM!
ISRAEL WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR SAVING IT'S CHILDREN'S LIVES
ISRAEL IS THE ONLY DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST BEING ATTACKED FROM ALL SIDES
ISRAEL IS NOT THE AGGRESSOR - IT IS THE VICTIM

Thank you, Bruce. The transcription is very helpful in seeing that video clearly for what it is.

[Percival]

JERUSALEM (BNO NEWS) -- The Israeli Government Press Office on Friday apologized to journalists after it inadvertently sent out a YouTube link to a video parody about the Flotilla incident last Monday.

Israeli naval forces on Monday seized the MV Mavi Marmara that was part of an aid convoy called the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla". The ships were en-route to the Gaza Strip.

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers who boarded the ship were met with heavy resistance from the passengers, who beat them with sticks, metal bars, and other items. The Israeli soldiers opened fire, killing nine passengers and wounding dozens more. Israel says the soldiers - who wanted to search the vessel for weapons - acted in self-defense.

The incident prompted widespread international reaction, including the United Nations Security Council and the UN Human Rights Council who condemned the acts.

On Friday, the Israeli Government Press Office accidentally e-mailed a YouTube video link to journalists, including journalists from BNO News. The video, created by Latma TV, used music from the 1985-song "We Are the World," which was written by Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie.

"There comes a time, when we need to make a show, for the world, the Web and CNN," a man - dressed as the captain of a ship - sings as the song begins. "There's no people dying, so the best that we can do is create the greatest bluff of all," the song continues, apparently referring to the people on board the MV Mavi Marmara.

The song goes on, saying they must go on day by day to pretend that there is crisis, hunger and plague in Gaza. "Cause the billion bucks in aid won't buy their basic needs, like some cheese and missiles for the kids."

It took the Israeli Government Press Office almost three hours to retract the e-mail. "[The Israeli Government Press Office] would like to recall the message, "CAroline Glick and the Flotilla Band"," a brief e-mail to journalists said.

About 20 minutes later, Efraim Roseman of the Israeli Government Press Office released a statement with more details. "Earlier today, we inadvertently released a video link that we had received, which was intended for our perusal, not for general release," Roseman wrote. "The contents of the video in no way reflect the official policy of the State of Israel, the Government Press Office or any other government body."

The blunder happened as international pressure on Israel over its handling of the Gaza crisis is increasing.

http://wireupdate.com/wires/6014/pr-blu ... nalists-2/

The vid, if you can stomach it.

Funny that their little song doesnt mention the small issue of what happens at the ballot box in the Gaza every election.

[Searcher08]

Geez, lots of personal attacks today.


I said twice in several posts that Israel is as much at fault as the other side, neither side is innocent.


All I asked for, from a bunch of smug posters who have likely never been close to the region and have no idea what its inhabitants deal with on a daily basis, was if you had any alternative solutions as to how Israel could handle this situation and limit the arms getting in to the hands of Hamas militants.

Instead of solutions I have been called a troll, brainwashed, a shill and now a batshit crazy homeless dude.


Nice.


Jeff, whats happened to this place?

I would just like to say that I do not consider your remarks a troll, brainwashed or a shill or a batshit crazy homeless dude. I do disagree with your logic, evidence base, assessments etc, but you have a perspective which IMHO should be dialogued with. For me you have a different tone than the Hasbara people I previously mentioned.

[elfismiles]

Funny that their little song doesnt mention the small issue of what happens at the ballot box in the Gaza every election.

Yeah, cuz voting for "non-terrorists" over "terrorists" has clearly made a helluvalotta difference around the world.

[chump]

[Iamwhomiam]

It is so very sad that those who stand and offer the product of their conscience, their words, to justify Israeli actions as being just and necessary appear so ignorant of the fact that it was only through the actions of zionist terrorists that Israel as a nation came into being and that the only opinions that matter are those uttered by similar thinking Jews.

We see that those who had their lands and properties confiscated want these things to be repatriated and are willing to fight for them are labeled as "terrorists" and if they elect a government comprised of people who feel similarly it too is labeled a "terrorist organization."

Jews lost the country they now claim (with the '48 experience) as their Israel with the temple's first destruction some 2500 years ago, which for most of that time had been known as Palestine.

The modern state of Israel acts towards the victims of their ongoing theft as if they should just lie down and obey, and considering their 6K year history of being an oppressed people, they of all people, should understand the determination of the people they now oppress to take back what was stolen from them as well as they should understand the anguish of their long role as victims is non-transferable and should not be the perpetrators of such pain in others.

But people of other religions besides the Jewish faith have considered this land as "sacred" for nearly two thousand years and yet their opinions do not matter.

[Nordic]

Percival, if you would argue with something other than propagandistic talking points issued by the Zionists and their toady media, you might be worth listening to.

But no, you might as well be cutting and pasting.

You have yet to show an original thought on the matter, nor have you said anything based on any reality.

[Peregrine]

I will end with this:

The Jews have a right to feel threatened and insecure. I don't think any non-Jew will understand things from their point of view.

This isnt about Jewishness, this is about Israel.
THIS is a real issue of Israeli racist exceptionalism, coming down to inherently racist notions of being 'a chosen people'. No you are not. You are just like the rest of us.

Well said Searcher. I dunno Percy, my fella is a Jew & he holds a very different viewpoint from you. I would feel pretty insecure too if my government were a bunch of bullies that constantly provoked an already subjugated people. Honestly, I wish they could use this fellow for negotiating:



Percy, I personally don't think you a troll, I've enjoyed past interactions with you on the board & understand you've actually had experienced living there & feel pretty passionately about the issue, but I just don't see how the Israeli government can justify itself.

[Sweejak]

“Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence. To take the name of non-violence when there is a sword in your heart is not only hypocritical and dishonest but cowardly ... Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defense or for the defense of the defenseless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission.”
-- Mohatma Gandhi

[Percival]

I will end with this:

The Jews have a right to feel threatened and insecure. I don't think any non-Jew will understand things from their point of view.

This isnt about Jewishness, this is about Israel.
THIS is a real issue of Israeli racist exceptionalism, coming down to inherently racist notions of being 'a chosen people'. No you are not. You are just like the rest of us.

Well said Searcher. I dunno Percy, my fella is a Jew & he holds a very different viewpoint from you. I would feel pretty insecure too if my government were a bunch of bullies that constantly provoked an already subjugated people. Honestly, I wish they could use this fellow for negotiating:



Percy, I personally don't think you a troll, I've enjoyed past interactions with you on the board & understand you've actually had experienced living there & feel pretty passionately about the issue, but I just don't see how the Israeli government can justify itself.

Thanks Pere, here is the thing. In 1962 John F Kennedy did the same thing Israel is doing today against Cuba: imposing a blockade tp prevent a hostile state from acquiring lethal weaponry.

A hostile state, you say? Yes, Hamas is a SELF PROCLAIMED enemy of Israel and their official mission statement even vows that there will NEVER be peace until every Jew is removed from the region, killed or run into the Med Sea. They made this vow and have made no secret of it and they have backed up that declaration by firing over 6000 rockets in to Israel since 2007 when they took control of the Gaza. Yet having pledged itself to unceasing belligerency, Hamas and the rest of the world claim they are victims when Israel tris to protect itself from yet more rockets.

But, you say, these ships meant no harm, they were carrying humanitarian relief for the people of the Gaza.

No.

The organizer of the flotilla itself, Greta Berlin, admitted that it was NOT about humanitarian relief or the people of the Gaza, it was about getting international attention for an attempt to BREAK THE BLOCKADE, in other words they manufactured and staged and provoked this confrontation to get more attention to their cause de jour, break the blockade and end Israel's inspection regime which would mean unlimited shipping in to the Gaza resulting in unlimited arms supplies to Hamas militants.

If this flotilla was really about humanitarian relief, and we NOW KNOW it was not from the comments of the organizer herself, Greta Berlin, all they had to do is do what HUNDREDS of other ships WEEKLY do, offload at the nearest Israeli port for inspection and then be on their merry way. In fact EVERY WEEK Israel ITSELF delivers 10,000 TONS of food and water and other supplies to the people of the Gaza and this even after those very people continue to support a self proclaimed and sworn enemy of Israel and its people (Yes JEWS).

As has been recently said, the aim, the whole point of this relentless international campaign against Israel and its LEGAL blockade is to ultimately deprive Israel of any legit means of defending itself against this self proclaimed enemy and internationally designated terrorist organization, the Hamas. The Israelis, my own people, are constantly demonized and ghettoized and villified even as states such as Iran and others, including Hamas, are preparing yet another FINAL SOLUTION.


Israel killing those 9 people was WRONG WRONG WRONG and I am not in agreement with 99% of the politics of those who rule my country, people like Netanyahu, Barak, Sharon etcetera, I have nothing in common with them and I dont support any of their politics including their treatment of the Palestinian people who have no blood on their hands and just want to live their lives, work and raise their children in a safe place, sadly they are the real victims in all of this but they have nobody to blame but those of their own who continue to support Hamas and elect them to lead their nation. Sans a better way to prevent a Hamas militant arms buildup, which is what the blockade is designed to do, I really dont have any other answer and it does piss me off that people who have never lived there or experienced how frightening it is to live anywhere in that region for both us Jews and the Palestinians are so quick to pass judgement on one side while claiming the other side is the victim. The fact is neither side is innocent and Israel has a lot of fucking soul searching to do because their paranoia (which is certainly justified on some levels) is turning them in to the very thing they fought against and came to hate 75 years ago in Germany.


But again, I ask, what are they to do, how can they handle this better, I came to this thread to ask that question because all I saw was one side of this story being discussed and like any story, there are two sides, while neither side may be innocent I think a lot of people on both sides are simply doing the best they can in a very bad situation BUT it still is going to come down to one single issue, when are the people of the Gaza going to stand up for themselves and reject, en mass, Hamas militants as their leaders and representitives? I can assure you one thing, I know the people of Israel and when they make certain demands their elected leaders usually listen to them and if the people of the Gaza were to rid themselves of Hamas and its militants Israel and its citizens would be the first on the scene to offer help and hold out a hand and a branch of peace.


But I really appreciate the comments Pere, I really am not here to troll, incite or play ADL shill nor am I a batshit crazy old man, I am simply someone who has been there and done that, seen it and lived it and it isnt as simple a fix as those who have never been there make it seem to be.

I only wish it were, for everyones sake, especially those beautiful children in the Gaza today who dont even have toys to play with or a glass of chocolate milk to drink. The children are the ones I pray for, the adults are too stupid and self centered for me to care much about, but for the sake of the children a solution needs to be found, some sort of delicate balance struck and a final offer of peace made.

[alwyn]

I only wish it were, for everyones sake, especially those beautiful children in the Gaza today who dont even have toys to play with or a glass of chocolate milk to drink. The children are the ones I pray for, the adults are too stupid and self centered for me to care much about, but for the sake of the children a solution needs to be found, some sort of delicate balance struck and a final offer of peace made.

Hear, hear. Now that is sensible.

[Simulist]

No. The adults in Gaza are not "too stupid and self-centered" to be cared about — most of them are suffering people who are doing the best they can to deal with the unjust and terrible conditions the Israeli occupation has put them under.