Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Cordelia » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:04 pm

Includes 'Unedited Radio Transcript' May 31, 2010
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=289874

Israel under fire for doctoring flotilla recordings
Published yesterday (updated) 05/06/2010 23:55

By Mya Guarnieri

Tel Aviv - Ma'an - Israel's military came under intense scrutiny Saturday after releasing a new, heavily edited version of a video it had distributed to journalists in the days following its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid convoy.

Initially distributing footage of its navy radioing the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara prior to a raid that left nine dead Monday, the military released a new version Friday that it said proves its claims that many aboard were religious extremists.

The audio includes two lines meant to demonstrate fanaticism on the part of Muslim passengers on board the ship, many of whom Israel's army has claimed had "terrorist" ties. "Shut up. Go back to Aushwitz," one man purportedly tells a navy officer via radio before another, with a heavy Southern accent, states that "We're helping Arabs go against the US. Don't forget 9/11 guys."

Bloggers soon picked up on discrepancies between the two. Ma'an also investigated, approaching the army early Saturday and confirming with Huwaida Arraf, a Palestinian activist and chair of the Free Gaza Movement, that her voice was used in the recording. She is heard speaking normally via radio.

Saturday's version supposedly came from the Marmara, at least according to the military. But Arraf was actually a passenger on another of the flotilla's boats, the Challenger 1.

Under mounting pressure, the army ultimately released yet another version of the recording late Saturday, bringing to three the total number of different takes on what the military insists is the same event......
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Percival » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:04 pm

17breezes wrote:
justdrew wrote:Carter just had hamas backed very far away from the pledge of war, had there been any negotiations, any real willingness to pursue peace something could have been done. 17b... your willingness to think the worst of gentiles is exactly the thought process that traps Israel in needless war.


The Holocaust PROVES what "Gentiles," as you call them are like at their worst. One would think that after that horror, antisemitism would have died; but, it didn't did it?

When an American icon for the left like Helen Thomas lets her mask slip, as Cohen says "Everybody knows."

I used to have a lot of respect for Helen but she has lost me after that. True colors for sure. But she is Turkish afterall isnt she, so I guess its a matter oif loyalties over truth.


But again, just look at North Korea, those people have it really bad and the South currently has a naval blockade set up and an embargo in place, and not a peep from the left and the people of NK didnt even vote their evil leader in. The people of Gaza DID vote for Hamas, but Israel is the bad guy for trying to protect its people from a terrorist organization that has sworn to exterminate them all. The world has gone insane.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Percival » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:07 pm

Cordelia wrote:Includes 'Unedited Radio Transcript' May 31, 2010
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=289874

Israel under fire for doctoring flotilla recordings
Published yesterday (updated) 05/06/2010 23:55

By Mya Guarnieri

Tel Aviv - Ma'an - Israel's military came under intense scrutiny Saturday after releasing a new, heavily edited version of a video it had distributed to journalists in the days following its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid convoy.

Initially distributing footage of its navy radioing the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara prior to a raid that left nine dead Monday, the military released a new version Friday that it said proves its claims that many aboard were religious extremists.

The audio includes two lines meant to demonstrate fanaticism on the part of Muslim passengers on board the ship, many of whom Israel's army has claimed had "terrorist" ties. "Shut up. Go back to Aushwitz," one man purportedly tells a navy officer via radio before another, with a heavy Southern accent, states that "We're helping Arabs go against the US. Don't forget 9/11 guys."

Bloggers soon picked up on discrepancies between the two. Ma'an also investigated, approaching the army early Saturday and confirming with Huwaida Arraf, a Palestinian activist and chair of the Free Gaza Movement, that her voice was used in the recording. She is heard speaking normally via radio.

Saturday's version supposedly came from the Marmara, at least according to the military. But Arraf was actually a passenger on another of the flotilla's boats, the Challenger 1.

Under mounting pressure, the army ultimately released yet another version of the recording late Saturday, bringing to three the total number of different takes on what the military insists is the same event......



I call shenanigans, what did they do, hold this woman at gunpoint and make her say those stupid things? She is on record as saying them so we have to assume she said them, who cares where she was when she said them, a person in her position has no business saying such things.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby American Dream » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:15 pm

Never Again

A ghettoized Gaza bears striking similarities to the Warsaw ghetto.

Saeed David Mohammad | 09 Jun 2009 |


On October 1, 1939 the German Wehrmacht’s advance reached the city of Warsaw, Poland. Over the following months, the Jewish population of Warsaw and the surrounding areas would be forced into a small section of the city dubbed the “Jüdischer wohnbezirk” or “the Jewish quarter,” the Warsaw ghetto. The situation within the ghetto was unbearable: 30 percent of the population was forced to live in 2.4 percent of the city’s area. The Nazi occupiers of the city strictly controlled the movement of goods, basic utilities and even food. Each person in the ghetto was allotted about 250 calories per day. This meant that the population would slowly starve.

Acts of rebellion within the ghetto were brutally suppressed and German retaliation was often strikingly disproportionate. In December 1939, for example, two German soldiers were killed in a local restaurant and 106 men in the ghetto were shot in reprisal. Sweeping mass arrests and random executions were also commonplace. In April 1940 the ghetto was walled off on all sides, effectively separating it from the outside world. The population was allowed limited control through an essentially powerless governing committee and a similarly ineffective Jewish police force.

Jews living anywhere in the greater occupied German territories were forced to wear armbands with the Star of David, which signified their position within the Nazi social strata (read subhuman). These armbands effectively determined people’s ability to travel, live and work, as well as the manner in which they would be treated by non-Jewish persons.

Leaving the Warsaw ghetto meant risking death or deportation to a concentration camp. Services such as hospitals and schools were often derelict, relying on an ever-decreasing stream of supplies allotted by the Nazis. The low supplies were often supplemented by goods smuggled in through tunnels, but such services were eventually forced to close.

The citizens of Warsaw organized a resistance movement during the Soviet advance. Their valiant attempt to fight the occupation, however, was brutally defeated and the Warsaw ghetto was razed to the ground. The ghetto’s remaining residents, those who had managed to evade deportation to concentration camps, were killed.

On September 12, 2005 the final Israeli settlement blocs in the Gaza Strip were dismantled and Israeli troops withdrew from the area after 38 years of military occupation. For Israel, the removal of troops signified an end to their occupation of Gaza. For the citizens of the Gaza Strip, however, the occupation had simply progressed into a new phase: the ghetto. The year 2005 marked the establishment of Gaza as an open-air prison for Palestinians.

The Israeli government controls the movement of all goods, including food, in and out of the Gaza Strip. A study done by Johns Hopkins University in 2002 showed that 17.5 percent of Gaza’s children aged 6–59 months suffer from chronic malnutrition and almost half of women and children suffer from anemia. These statistics have no doubt gone up in the wake of recent Israeli embargoes. Israel also controls basic necessities like power and plumbing. And of course it controls Gaza’s borders and airspace. The long ocean border, once an extremely viable source of income for Gazans through trade and fishing, is now strictly controlled by Israel.

For the most part, the movement of Palestinians into Israel is strictly forbidden. Until 2005 and the open revolt of Hamas in Gaza, Palestinians living in the territory were issued identification cards by the Palestinian Authority, with ID numbers given by Israel. These identification cards and their color casings determined what rights people had, where they were allowed to travel and, unofficially, how they were treated. Although they are no longer used in Hamas-controlled Gaza, these identification cards are used extensively in the West Bank, where Israeli checkpoints dot the region and prevent Palestinians from traveling freely within their territory. The situation of Palestinians in Gaza is unique: they have no official state and are thus treated as nonentities.

Hospitals and schools in Gaza are rarely, if ever, able to keep up with the demands of the population. Supplies to these institutions are controlled by Israel and during times of war are often cut off. Most recently, the Israeli embargo of Gaza struck a blow to the health care system: many essential drugs are unavailable and ambulances have been grounded due to a lack of spare parts. Israeli responses to provocation are wildly disproportionate. In the recent resumption of fighting between Hamas and Israel, the Israeli response to the murder of three civilians by Palestinian rockets was the wide-scale destruction of Gaza, which has thus far reportedly claimed the lives of 670 civilians.

Comparing any event with the actions of Nazi Germany during World War II should never be done lightly. When events lend themselves to such comparisons, however, it can almost certainly be said that something is very wrong. Though the stated goal of Israel has never been the complete destruction of the Palestinian people, the tactics and policies supported by the state of Israel paint an extremely grim picture.

Saeed David Mohammad is a first-generation American born to a Pakistani father and German mother. He is majoring in Middle Eastern Studies at New York University.


https://www.adbusters.org/magazine/83/gaza.html
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby 17breezes » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:16 pm

Jeff wrote:
Percival wrote:Just heard this morning thatthe radio communications between the IDF and Flotilla was recorded and this is what was initially said, what a bunch of assholes:


Wherever more than 600 are gathered, assholes always seem over-represented. But it's certainly not beyond the means of motivated authorities to doctor an audio tape that was never out of their possession. Not saying that's so, just saying it's possible enough that I'm reserving judgement.

There's also this to consider, from British journalist Yvonne Ridley:

Here is the audio clip, which the Israelis titled “Radio Transmission from Mavi Marmara to Israeli Navy”.

ISRAELI SHIP: “This is the Israeli Navy, you are approaching an area which is under a naval blockade.”

MAN’S VOICE 1: “Shut up, go back to Auschwitz.”

WOMAN’S VOICE: “We have permission from the Gaza Port Authority to enter.”

MAN’S VOICE 2: “We’re helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11 guy.”

If you want to listen for yourself, here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxY7Q7CvQPQ.

I immediately recognized the voice of the woman, it is that of Huwaida Arraf, a heroic Palestinian who co-founded the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) and is chair of the Free Gaza Movement.

We sailed together on the first Free Gaza Movement boat into Gaza in 2008 and her voice is very distinctive.

So yes, I can confirm that is Huwaida’s voice, but I can also confirm that Huwaida was on board Challenger 1, a much smaller passenger ship in the six-boat flotilla. She was NOT on board the Mavi Marmara.


http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=220735


Which is probably why she wasn't shot; all deaths happened on one ship loaded with would be martyrs. But Israel has admitted its initial id was wrong.

The IDF Spokesman’s Office, which made the recording available on its Web site, said the transmissions were first thought to have originated from the main protest ship, the Mavi Marmara, but that they could have come from one of the other five vessels in the flotilla.

“The Israeli navy ship attempted to make contact with the Defne Y [one of the protest vessels] on channel 1-6. Other ships from the flotilla responded on the channel, without identifying themselves,” the IDF said on Saturday.


http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177572
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Percival » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:24 pm

What I would really like to hear, as opposed to all the name calling and threatrics like illegal this and inhuman that, is how you feel Israel should handle this situation, the situation being that the people of Gaza support Hamas and Hamas has declared war on Israel and threatend them with extermination.

This is not as simple as many of you make it seem, Israel has a real life problem on their hands that they are trying to deal with and doing so under extraordinary pressure and criticism from the rest of the world.

So lets hear it, how should Israel deal with the threat of extermination by Hamas?

Personally in light of all the facts I think Israel has actually shown real RESTRAINT in this matter.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Elvis » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:28 pm

Percival wrote:My question is, why is such a known and respected lady making such hateful remarks against Jews?


“We have permission from the Gaza Port Authority to enter” is a hateful statement?



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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Percival » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:31 pm

American Dream wrote:
Never Again

A ghettoized Gaza bears striking similarities to the Warsaw ghetto.

Saeed David Mohammad | 09 Jun 2009 |


On October 1, 1939 the German Wehrmacht’s advance reached the city of Warsaw, Poland. Over the following months, the Jewish population of Warsaw and the surrounding areas would be forced into a small section of the city dubbed the “Jüdischer wohnbezirk” or “the Jewish quarter,” the Warsaw ghetto. The situation within the ghetto was unbearable: 30 percent of the population was forced to live in 2.4 percent of the city’s area. The Nazi occupiers of the city strictly controlled the movement of goods, basic utilities and even food. Each person in the ghetto was allotted about 250 calories per day. This meant that the population would slowly starve.

Acts of rebellion within the ghetto were brutally suppressed and German retaliation was often strikingly disproportionate. In December 1939, for example, two German soldiers were killed in a local restaurant and 106 men in the ghetto were shot in reprisal. Sweeping mass arrests and random executions were also commonplace. In April 1940 the ghetto was walled off on all sides, effectively separating it from the outside world. The population was allowed limited control through an essentially powerless governing committee and a similarly ineffective Jewish police force.

Jews living anywhere in the greater occupied German territories were forced to wear armbands with the Star of David, which signified their position within the Nazi social strata (read subhuman). These armbands effectively determined people’s ability to travel, live and work, as well as the manner in which they would be treated by non-Jewish persons.

Leaving the Warsaw ghetto meant risking death or deportation to a concentration camp. Services such as hospitals and schools were often derelict, relying on an ever-decreasing stream of supplies allotted by the Nazis. The low supplies were often supplemented by goods smuggled in through tunnels, but such services were eventually forced to close.

The citizens of Warsaw organized a resistance movement during the Soviet advance. Their valiant attempt to fight the occupation, however, was brutally defeated and the Warsaw ghetto was razed to the ground. The ghetto’s remaining residents, those who had managed to evade deportation to concentration camps, were killed.

On September 12, 2005 the final Israeli settlement blocs in the Gaza Strip were dismantled and Israeli troops withdrew from the area after 38 years of military occupation. For Israel, the removal of troops signified an end to their occupation of Gaza. For the citizens of the Gaza Strip, however, the occupation had simply progressed into a new phase: the ghetto. The year 2005 marked the establishment of Gaza as an open-air prison for Palestinians.

The Israeli government controls the movement of all goods, including food, in and out of the Gaza Strip. A study done by Johns Hopkins University in 2002 showed that 17.5 percent of Gaza’s children aged 6–59 months suffer from chronic malnutrition and almost half of women and children suffer from anemia. These statistics have no doubt gone up in the wake of recent Israeli embargoes. Israel also controls basic necessities like power and plumbing. And of course it controls Gaza’s borders and airspace. The long ocean border, once an extremely viable source of income for Gazans through trade and fishing, is now strictly controlled by Israel.

For the most part, the movement of Palestinians into Israel is strictly forbidden. Until 2005 and the open revolt of Hamas in Gaza, Palestinians living in the territory were issued identification cards by the Palestinian Authority, with ID numbers given by Israel. These identification cards and their color casings determined what rights people had, where they were allowed to travel and, unofficially, how they were treated. Although they are no longer used in Hamas-controlled Gaza, these identification cards are used extensively in the West Bank, where Israeli checkpoints dot the region and prevent Palestinians from traveling freely within their territory. The situation of Palestinians in Gaza is unique: they have no official state and are thus treated as nonentities.

Hospitals and schools in Gaza are rarely, if ever, able to keep up with the demands of the population. Supplies to these institutions are controlled by Israel and during times of war are often cut off. Most recently, the Israeli embargo of Gaza struck a blow to the health care system: many essential drugs are unavailable and ambulances have been grounded due to a lack of spare parts. Israeli responses to provocation are wildly disproportionate. In the recent resumption of fighting between Hamas and Israel, the Israeli response to the murder of three civilians by Palestinian rockets was the wide-scale destruction of Gaza, which has thus far reportedly claimed the lives of 670 civilians.

Comparing any event with the actions of Nazi Germany during World War II should never be done lightly. When events lend themselves to such comparisons, however, it can almost certainly be said that something is very wrong. Though the stated goal of Israel has never been the complete destruction of the Palestinian people, the tactics and policies supported by the state of Israel paint an extremely grim picture.

Saeed David Mohammad is a first-generation American born to a Pakistani father and German mother. He is majoring in Middle Eastern Studies at New York University.


https://www.adbusters.org/magazine/83/gaza.html



The big difference here is that during ww2 when the Jews were imprisoned in concentration camps and ghettos, the reason was simply because of their religion and not because they freely and willingly elected an INTERNATIONALLY DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, like Hamas, to represent them.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby 17breezes » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:33 pm

Percival wrote:
17breezes wrote:
justdrew wrote:Carter just had hamas backed very far away from the pledge of war, had there been any negotiations, any real willingness to pursue peace something could have been done. 17b... your willingness to think the worst of gentiles is exactly the thought process that traps Israel in needless war.


The Holocaust PROVES what "Gentiles," as you call them are like at their worst. One would think that after that horror, antisemitism would have died; but, it didn't did it?

When an American icon for the left like Helen Thomas lets her mask slip, as Cohen says "Everybody knows."

I used to have a lot of respect for Helen but she has lost me after that. True colors for sure. But she is Turkish afterall isnt she, so I guess its a matter oif loyalties over truth.


But again, just look at North Korea, those people have it really bad and the South currently has a naval blockade set up and an embargo in place, and not a peep from the left and the people of NK didnt even vote their evil leader in. The people of Gaza DID vote for Hamas, but Israel is the bad guy for trying to protect its people from a terrorist organization that has sworn to exterminate them all. The world has gone insane.



She is American born of Lebanese roots. So that MAY explain some things but I think the mask is still on a great many journalists; she is not likely unique.

There is an insane lack of peeps all the time unless it's Israel.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Percival » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:35 pm

Elvis wrote:
Percival wrote:My question is, why is such a known and respected lady making such hateful remarks against Jews?


“We have permission from the Gaza Port Authority to enter” is a hateful statement?



Image


Alright, I was confused, I thought she was the one who made the Auschwitz statement, do we know who that was attributed to, I couldnt make out any differences in the voices when I heard it on BBC, I wasnt listening closely at the time and just caught a part of what was being said.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Laodicean » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:35 pm

The Right to Exist: Who Has It? Where Is It? Why?

Does Israel Have a “Right to Exist”? Do We?

by Gary Corseri / June 5th, 2010

It’s a shibboleth of the Zionist entity: “Israel has the right to exist!”

But what is this “Israel”? What is this “right to exist”?

Where is it written? Is it in Holy Scripture? “The Song of Songs”? “The Book of Job”? “Proverbs”? “Ecclesiastes”?

Is it written in stone on two tablets by the finger of God?

What does it mean when a people declare that they have the “right to exist” as they please because they are a “democracy,” but other people have no such right? I solemnly declare my elections legitimate — the will of my people –, but … it is obvious that you people over there (in Gaza, in Turkey, in Iran, etc.) do not have the capacity to choose leaders who can represent your true interests!

What does that mean?

Israel refuses to negotiate with Hamas — will not recognize the political leadership that the Palestinians chose in internationally monitored elections — because, Israel declares, Hamas will not recognize Israel’s “right to exist.”

And why should Hamas recognize that “right”? What is always unspoken are the words, “the right to exist as we are now, as we have been, and as we shall become.” Recognize me, and suffer all my faults! Recognize my right to exist as I am, have been and will be —and forfeit your right to challenge me legally for illegal seizures of property, for expropriations and appropriations, for illegitimate detainments, incarcerations, torture, homicides.

In effect, Israeli commandos unilaterally declared that Aid Activists on a flotilla in international waters had no “right to exist.”

When Ahmadinijead of Iran quoted the Ayatollah Khomeini that the Zionist entity would wither away and disappear from the page of history, the entity and its media stooges in the U.S. and elsewhere accused Iran of threatening to “wipe Israel off the map of the earth.” Israel declared Iran an “existential threat” and threatened, in turn, to destroy the Iranians with the 200 nuclear weapons that they will neither confirm nor deny possessing (even though everyone knows they have them!).

Orthodox Jews, including the ultra-conservative Hasidim, are among those most loudly proclaiming that the state of Israel has “no right to exist.” Their viewpoint is hermeneutical: they believe that Israel will be established among the nations after the Mashiach (the Messiah) comes. They believe it is heretical for politicians to reverse the process. First the Mashiach, then the state. That’s the way they read the Hebrew.

Then, do Orthodox Jews have the “right to exist”? (At last report, Israel had not threatened them with its nuclear bombs).

“We the people”, in the infant republic of the United States, did not think much about the existence of Native Americans, women or slaves. Some three score years after our founding, we did not think Mexico had a “right to exist” north of the Rio Grande. We did not think Hawaii had the right to exist as a sovereign nation. Nor, in spite of promises made at the time of the Spanish-American War, did we think the Philippines had the “right to exist” as anything other than a U.S. colony in Asia (we needed the coaling stations!).

Is it simply power that determines the “right to exist”?

During the Cold War, the US and its allies decided the Soviet Union had no right to exist. We were prepared to obliterate the world to prove our point — certain nutjobs among us were. One of our soldiers, a Lieutenant Calley, thought he was “just following orders” when he decided that hundreds of villagers in a hamlet called My Lai in Vietnam—unarmed men, women, and children — had no “right to exist.” He “wasted” them.

Does the U.N. determine who has the “right to exist”? Does Tibet have that right? Does Palestine? Does Kurdistan?

Suppose the good people of Vermont decide that they are sick and tired of bank bail-outs, oligopolies, kakistocracies, phony American elections, our media of the absurd, oil-slick corporations with more legal rights than “persons,” and artery-clogging, greasy fast food? In a sterling, transparent, democratic election, the vast majority of the state elects leadership that claims its place among the nations of the world as “The Glorious, Independent, Technicolor, Outstanding Republic of Vermont” (which a media wag soon dubs the “GIT OUT of “R” Vermont republic). Does the Glorious, Independent, Technicolor, Outstanding Republic of Vermont have the right to exist?

The Zionist state demands the right to exist as a Zionist state — a non-signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, bristling with nuclear weapons. Did Yahweh come out of the clouds and declare that this state alone can break all the rules of international decorum with impunity, without censure?

When did Yahweh make that announcement? Was it on the Rachel Maddow show? Was it on Larry King?

If there is a “right to exist,” is there not an equal right to resist–occupation, oppression, thievery, rape, duplicity?

Suppose we started from the other end? Suppose we assumed that no one had the “right to exist,” but that everyone — and every species — could enjoy the “privilege” of existence? How would we order the world then?

The Zionist zealots ask, Why don’t the Palestinians produce a Gandhi, a Martin Luther King to lead them? But where is the Zealots’ Martin Buber — a Jew who exhorted the Jews, and all humankind, to live in harmony with others — with different species, too — with God, too —in an “I and Thou” relationship?

The Zealots have raided the Kingdom of Heaven. Like Lucifer, the Angel of Light, they will be transmogrified by their pride and arrogance, and lust for power. And … they will fall, corrupted from within.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby Percival » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:38 pm

17breezes wrote:
Percival wrote:
17breezes wrote:
justdrew wrote:Carter just had hamas backed very far away from the pledge of war, had there been any negotiations, any real willingness to pursue peace something could have been done. 17b... your willingness to think the worst of gentiles is exactly the thought process that traps Israel in needless war.


The Holocaust PROVES what "Gentiles," as you call them are like at their worst. One would think that after that horror, antisemitism would have died; but, it didn't did it?

When an American icon for the left like Helen Thomas lets her mask slip, as Cohen says "Everybody knows."

I used to have a lot of respect for Helen but she has lost me after that. True colors for sure. But she is Turkish afterall isnt she, so I guess its a matter oif loyalties over truth.


But again, just look at North Korea, those people have it really bad and the South currently has a naval blockade set up and an embargo in place, and not a peep from the left and the people of NK didnt even vote their evil leader in. The people of Gaza DID vote for Hamas, but Israel is the bad guy for trying to protect its people from a terrorist organization that has sworn to exterminate them all. The world has gone insane.



She is American born of Lebanese roots. So that MAY explain some things but I think the mask is still on a great many journalists; she is not likely unique.

There is an insane lack of peeps all the time unless it's Israel.


Thats the problem here, everything they do is under a giant microscope, everyone condemns Israel but nobody is willing to offer an alternative more acceptable solution as to how Israel is supposed to deal with the Hamas threat of extermination. Maybe if everyone would stop calling Israel inhuman and evil and sit down and have a real discussion about how she should deal with these problems, we could actually make some progress, but that isnt any fun is it? Its much better to act emotional and throw reason out the window.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby barracuda » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:40 pm

Laodicean, that is the second posting of that essay on this thread. Please try to keep up. I doubt that it had much value the first time, frankly. Israel exists. Get used to it.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby justdrew » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:42 pm

.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

Postby justdrew » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:42 pm

Percival wrote:
17breezes wrote:
Percival wrote:
17breezes wrote:
justdrew wrote:Carter just had hamas backed very far away from the pledge of war, had there been any negotiations, any real willingness to pursue peace something could have been done. 17b... your willingness to think the worst of gentiles is exactly the thought process that traps Israel in needless war.


The Holocaust PROVES what "Gentiles," as you call them are like at their worst. One would think that after that horror, antisemitism would have died; but, it didn't did it?

When an American icon for the left like Helen Thomas lets her mask slip, as Cohen says "Everybody knows."

I used to have a lot of respect for Helen but she has lost me after that. True colors for sure. But she is Turkish afterall isnt she, so I guess its a matter oif loyalties over truth.


But again, just look at North Korea, those people have it really bad and the South currently has a naval blockade set up and an embargo in place, and not a peep from the left and the people of NK didnt even vote their evil leader in. The people of Gaza DID vote for Hamas, but Israel is the bad guy for trying to protect its people from a terrorist organization that has sworn to exterminate them all. The world has gone insane.



She is American born of Lebanese roots. So that MAY explain some things but I think the mask is still on a great many journalists; she is not likely unique.

There is an insane lack of peeps all the time unless it's Israel.


Thats the problem here, everything they do is under a giant microscope, everyone condemns Israel but nobody is willing to offer an alternative more acceptable solution as to how Israel is supposed to deal with the Hamas threat of extermination. Maybe if everyone would stop calling Israel inhuman and evil and sit down and have a real discussion about how she should deal with these problems, we could actually make some progress, but that isnt any fun is it? Its much better to act emotional and throw reason out the window.


I suggest Israel elect and follow their own internal peace movement rather than look for answers from people on message boards and their own hawkish right wing.

go here and poke around, you'll find answers:
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html
Last edited by justdrew on Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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