No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

[Simulist]

Quite right. The effort to control thinking and behavior was obviously underway "the day before yesterday" — and for multiple centuries before that.

Modern science and technology now makes that effort an especially effective one.

[nathan28]

I've been through that whole website... I still want to know what model the CIA dudes had when they, e.g., did the Candy Jones thing, which predated DID and MPD as diagnostic categories. Because psychiatric and neurological categories are flexible and change over time. This is an innocent question and I think fits into the theory presented by some here that there has been a progressive, accumulative 'science' of MC.

[DeltaDawn]

Now here is where I step out on a limb that might fall and kill me, but why not??

I personally feel that the whole debunking of Project Monarch and the MPD/DID b.s. is a cover up. What the hell you want to call it, why do so many have tatoos of butterflies? Why do so many draw butterflies? Why have so many come up with that theme, for us to say F. that, it's not real. Kinda like FMS, if you ask me.

My own feelings, not backed by professionals, so what, are that MPD and DID are Completely different phenomenas. Meaning MPD, they might not know what the other 'alters' do or think. DID, maybe different 'feelings'/thoughts one might have, but be completely aware of. One might say, not feeling like oneself???

The more confusion the perpetrators can create, the less the general public will believe, and after all who should believe the victims, they are 'crazy'. Don't give a damn what they call the crime.....Bluebird Project/Cointelpro/project monarch/Artichoke Project/ WHATever!!!! There are victims out there who are being ignored because sooooo Many are being fooled by propaganda and the efforts of others to give (even if just a little bit) what they know and have experienced. No wonder we don't know of all the victims, when one has any insight, then everyone seems to say, your memories are too far fetched to believe, or they may say, you got one thing wrong, so fuck your whole story......Guess ignorance IS bliss!!!!

[nathan28]

Now here is where I step out on a limb that might fall and kill me, but why not??

I personally feel that the whole debunking of Project Monarch and the MPD/DID b.s. is a cover up. What the hell you want to call it, why do so many have tatoos of butterflies? Why do so many draw butterflies? Why have so many come up with that theme, for us to say F. that, it's not real. Kinda like FMS, if you ask me.

My own feelings, not backed by professionals, so what, are that MPD and DID are Completely different phenomenas. Meaning MPD, they might not know what the other 'alters' do or think. DID, maybe different 'feelings'/thoughts one might have, but be completely aware of. One might say, not feeling like oneself???

The more confusion the perpetrators can create, the less the general public will believe, and after all who should believe the victims, they are 'crazy'. Don't give a damn what they call the crime.....Bluebird Project/Cointelpro/project monarch/Artichoke Project/ WHATever!!!! There are victims out there who are being ignored because sooooo Many are being fooled by propaganda and the efforts of others to give (even if just a little bit) what they know and have experienced. No wonder we don't know of all the victims, when one has any insight, then everyone seems to say, your memories are too far fetched to believe, or they may say, you got one thing wrong, so fuck your whole story......Guess ignorance IS bliss!!!!

I really wouldn't go down the butterfly tattoo route unless you think one in three women has been programmed by the gov't. Just saying etc.

My understanding is that "DID" replaced "MPD", the biggest change being that DID exists more on a continuum than "multiple personalities" in that some people might simply dissociate, as in "dissociative" while others would have full-blown alters, as in "identity" etc., so "dissociative identity", but if you have "multiple personality disorder" that's cut and dry at least in name, although IIRC the first definition had something like four levels. IIRC DID is currently considered separate from what in the vernacular we'd call "dissociative" like one-off amnesia, fugue states, zoning out, drinking DXM etc. I'm not sure if this was DSM-IV or -V thing; MPD was introduced in DSM-III, and was getting attention as a formal clinical thing at least in the early or mid '70s, though as far as I can gather prior to that wasn't considered a discrete category.



and on edit, it really doesn't look like there is a gov't sponsored project named "MONARCH", at least not an MC one. It looks like Springmeier and Phillips talked it up the way con-men do, and it looks like Albarelli has a source, probably more reliable, who claims to have made it up. The point isn't that "triggering" isn't possible (it is based on little more than classical conditioning), or even that the "Monarch" mythos is fabricated--though to be honest I don't know that I have the patience or fortitude to look at it again but at the moment don't believe "Monarch" was real--the point is that it's possible to know what was real and what wasn't for the sake of what they sometimes call "truth and reconciliation." So I happen to think it is important to sort out details.