ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

[elfismiles]

Obviously the crazy circus aids the PTB (and perhaps the phenomenon itself) while harming those who get ridiculed because of the absurdity factor that surrounds the subject.

I've had my fill of ridicule, and I've had my fill of gamers and that's the category in which I'd place your two sources.

And I've tried hard through my work in these fields of inquiry to eliminate or at least lessen the ridicule surrounding people who claim contact with all of these subjects.

Please help me understand how these two people, particularly Mr. Pflock, were "gamers."

Other than the ole "he's CIA so can't be trusted", what have you seen of Mr. Pflock, besides rational discourse, to jump to that conclusion?

I can understand that with Moseley there are at least 2 known incidences of fakery upon which he has been found guilty in your eyes - never mind that that was 50 freaking years ago.

Why the sideshow here?

What do you mean?

This reminds me of when Bryant published his book last year. In response to that a good percentage of the board went to work debunking DeCamp and dragging out and re-beating the corpse of Ted Gunderson. Few, if anyone, actually posted at length about what a profound work Bryant had done and its possible impacts. Now with Albarelli and others these subjects are making their way out of 'para' and into 'normal'. It's almost as if there were some kind of pull to keep them knee deep in woo.

Well, you've read his book... perhaps you heard his appearance and comments on my show in which he himself talks about all the UFO & JFK assassination connections he came across that led him to desire to maybe find some more significant link to those arenas.

So it's not like he's trying to distance himself from those areas of inquiry.

What I always appreciated about Jeff was that he expressed his outrage on behalf of those affected by a particular topic, no matter how seemingly far out. Can't say the same about everyone who is interested in "these subjects". Attempting to discover a mythical giant hairy hominid is nowhere near equivalent to exposing the tax-funded torture of private citizens. Frankly, if I ever met a feeling-less "It's all just so fascinating" attitude up close and in person, I'd probably be tempted to deck the guy.

Sasquatch doesn't need the justice system, I do. There's your line of segregation.

I too have appreciated Jeff's expression of outrage. I hope our fellow RI-folks outrage translates to real world activism.

While I agree that "exposing the tax-funded torture of private citizens" is far more important than "attempting to discover a mythical giant hairy hominid", I personally choose to do both and disagree with the label of mythical...

Dr. Goodall: Well now, you'll be amazed when I tell you that I'm sure that they exist.

Ira Flatow: You are?

Dr. Goodall: Yeah. I've talked to so many Native Americans who all describe the same sounds, two who have seen them. I've probably got about, oh, thirty books that have come from different parts of the world, from China from, from all over the place, and there was a little tiny snippet in the newspaper just last week which says that British scientists have found what they believed to be a yeti hair and that the scientists in the Natural History Museum in London couldn't identify it as any known animal.

http://www.bfro.net/news/GoodallTranscript.asp

[elfismiles]

Given what has already been disclosed about them, I see no reason to assign any credibility whatsoever to either of those two sources.

Are there any UFO researchers to whom you assign any credibility?

[elfismiles]

There are many intelligence operatives who are involved in occult organizations. Some of them are just in it for the networking, but I know for a fact that some of them take it quite seriously. So when you start pulling on pretty much any deep politics thread, you're going to come across some element of woo eventually.

That being said, I'll have a conversation touching upon both UFOs and 9/11 amongst conspiracy-minded friends, but if I'm trying to convince a member of the general public of some of this stuff, there's NO WAY I'm going to conflate topics like that. And I always start with the easiest to accept stuff first. Using the example of 9/11, it's a little more effective to open with "Hey, did you know that a bunch of U.S. military and intelligence people say that the Bush administration deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen?" rather than "OMG! Nano-thermite, NWO, remote-controlled planes!"

Exactly, if you want to be taken seriously on any topic you have to tailor your information to the audience with whom you are communicating.

If I am at a political rally I don't start talking about Bigfoot and UFOs.

To me, that is the most important self-censorship that can and should be imposed, especially when dealing with the media or when trying to have a rational dialog with the opposition.

That said, among friends who already know the breadth of my interests, a conversation may bounce all over the para spectrum. And I tend to see the interconnectedness of things and so these subjects often end up tangled up during less formal talks among folks who have interests beyond political activism and across para-subject areas.

[JackRiddler]

I've seen European gas stations that sell girlie mags and American ones with racks of Christian soldier books. What the gas station sells is not automatically "gas station literature," and does not necessarily reflect on the item. How you put together your supermarket of ideas might be arbitrary and tied to a business plan, which is a type of ontology but doesn't cover all ontologies. You may want to put P.D. Scott in the same rack as a study of Sasquatch droppings because both of the book covers are blue and you discovered a demographic of customers who like blue. I might prefer him alongside Jonathan Swift. Neither arrangement would be a natural given.

[JackRiddler]

...

I think research into parapolitics should be conflated with glorious bright public squares full of people holding hands in solidarity and refusing to move, and the works of Shakespeare and Mozart, not the dingy rec-room into which the obfuscationists wish to stuff it...

Uhmmm, Mozart, definitely. I'd sub Chaucer for Shakespeare though.

*

Fine by me. The point is we arrange our own constellations, and most constellations do not consist of objects that are actually near to each other. I reject the approved constellations of the US intelligence-entertainment complex, which have told me to put my people's history into a box with voodoo numerology and dragons and angry white men.

[JackRiddler]

Exactly, if you want to be taken seriously on any topic you have to tailor your information to the audience with whom you are communicating.

When I want to take myself seriously I try to stop thinking of it as my information and check if its tailored to observable reality.

[elfismiles]

What do you all think?

That your opening sentences serve the ideology of confusionism in a very obvious way, and that you should be profoundly embarrassed by the sloppiness of your thinking. If you're serious about "We are all Jose Padilla now," then no, you're not going to be reproducing the mystified "X-Files" mish-mash throwing in ghosts and Sasquatch and aliens drawing crop circles into discussions of parapolitics or of the non-conspiratorial tyranny that is perpetually on the rise around us. (Jeff doesn't do this, by the way. He writes on each topic knowledgably and as he feels about it.)

Thanks for your honest critique Jack.

That said, give me a fucking break. Serving the "ideology of confusionism"? Puh-lease.

Yes, I am serious about...


You can be serious about parapolitical subjects and still, within certain mixed company, discuss those other subjects.

But yes, as I've said, if I'm at a political rally, speaking to the media about political issues, I focus my intent and information on THAT subject / THOSE issues.

But that doesn't mean I'm not going to occasionally write about all of those subjects together or talk about them together.

I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match between all of our writing styles and skills but we all write/speak "on each topic knowledgably and as he (we) feels about it."

Someone serious about addressing the crises that the people, the civilization, the species face also does not acknowledge the enemy's categories, like "conspiracy researchers." Anyone who pretends to talk about historic, political and economic subjects but calls themselves a "conspiracy researcher" is probably interested in easy niche marketing, or more likely a member of the subcultural fandom that makes up the niche market.

For fuck's sake, now we can't use or "acknowledge the enemy's categories, like "conspiracy researchers.""

Well then I guess Jeff has his work cut out for him delimiting his writing from the realm of "conspiracy research"...

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2 ... post=20747
http://www.conspiracyculture.com/events.html

One can recognize the ignobility of the MSM's / PTB's derisive use of the "conspiracy theory" and still use it as a conversational shorthand. I'm more likely to use Deep Politics or Parapolitics or even just "exposing institutional corruption and criminality" but sometimes it's just as well to say "conspiracy researcher."

Which is to say, have your fun diddling around with Sasquatch. Understand that I'm not saying an interest in Sasquatch discredits you, merely, as you ask, decrying the automatic conflation of it with "conspiracy" topics that the hegemonic ideology demands. I am expecting you not to serve that hegemonic ideology yourself. The conflation is the product of a culture that deeply hates and wishes to trivialize the truth of its own murderous lack of civilization. Sasquatch is of not of relevance to research about 9/11 or JFK. Anyone presenting Sasquatch as though it belongs in the same rubric is serving The Man.

I totally agree that Uncle Sas has no real relevance to the crimes of Uncle Sam.



And I also agree that someone who gets MSM attention while discussing those parapolitical issues such as 9/11 and JFK and then brings up certain paranormal topics is doing a disservice to those Deep Political issues.

On the other hand, depending upon the nature and intention of said MSM attention, I personally might mention such parapsychological 911 data as the Princeton REG/EGG experiments and other paranormal synchronicities surrounding September 11th. But again, to me that is a different situation / circumstance than participating in an anti-war / political rally and bringing up same.

On edit: And without disparaging any of the subjects you list: Why the hell should someone who's worked to maybe actually know something about his chosen subject have to like talking about things that didn't interest him? The conflation is insidious.

My point wasn't about forcing people knowledgeable in a specific area into talking about things they feel are outside their area of specialization. However, there are situations where said "experts" are unwilling to talk about things where there is indeed evidence of overlap with those areas they are uncomfortable discussing. For example, in the early days of the Modern UFO Era, many researchers were completely against including CE3K cases involving entities/occupants. Similarly, many UFO researchers don't want to hear of concomitant sightings of bigfoot-like creatures seen in the vicinity of ufo reports, and vice-versa, many cryptozoologists resist including or even acknowledging the confluence of UFO sightings with bigfoot sightings.

It is simply that blinkered / closed-mindedness to the possible relevance of what to them is "anomalous" data, that gets my goat.

Another example would be UFO / Alien Abduction researchers such as Budd Hopkins who openly admit to throwing out the data that don't fit their hypothesis.

I think research into parapolitics should be conflated with glorious bright public squares full of people holding hands in solidarity and refusing to move, and the works of Shakespeare and Mozart, not the dingy rec-room into which the obfuscationists wish to stuff it.

As there is no necessary connection either way, I'll pick the former!

Indeed. Where have all the "squares full of people holding hands in solidarity and refusing to move" in America gone to?

I also think you should make this your sig-line:

No, IMO Jim Moseley's having perpetrated a couple of hoaxes does not cancel out his sincerity and interest in the UFO phenomenon.

For you Jack, I will do this for a time.

[elfismiles]

Exactly, if you want to be taken seriously on any topic you have to tailor your information to the audience with whom you are communicating.

When I want to take myself seriously I try to stop thinking of it as my information and check if its tailored to observable reality.

Okay, "the information" ...

Does witness testimony count as "observable reality" to you? Or do you mean replicable reality?

[nathan28]

Barracuda's comment on the praeternatural intelligence thing is correct, I think. At the same time, I think it's getting irrelevant, too. Want to see why we're where we are? B/c the wealthy were conjuring up spirits that suspiciously parroted back the dogma of the racist, elitist social structure they lived in. Funny, huh?

It's clear that 1. a network of narco-pedo-trafficking exists 2. the modern "intelligence" agencies have been the domain of rapists, torturers, assassins and theives and their existence cannot be justified. Those, among others, are the dirty secrets of the past sixty years.

But those are America's secrets. And if you haven't noticed--America is on its way out. Game's up, dude.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

Those secrets will be less and less important. That's a shame, because so much injustice took place and takes place under those auspices, but short of another Church Committee--and with Obama's More-Bush-Than-Bush Friendly Fascism (assassination lists of citizens? really?), that's not going to happen--it's unlikely that they will be revealed or there be any accounting.

And on that injustice, I don't know what to say. It's become increasingly clear to me that as injust as it is to torture children for the sake of "national security" via some fantasy of mind-controlled sleeper agents dispersed across the world, America is a deeply unjust, deeply hateful place. We hate the poor. We do. And this is the wealthiest nation in the world--the only nation with more visible wealth disparity is Brazil (which, I'll tell you, isn't 'shocking' but is awful)--yet if we used real inflation to calculate poverty, one in four people would be poor. But we tear up railroads and run buses five times a day. We demand cars and make grocery stores illegal. Racism has been institutionalized in an awful way. In New York one in five kids is malnourished, though any conservative will tell you that "malnourished" is an arbitrary term--and it is, but in the fattest nation in the world, you'd think they could spare something from their larders.

A few years ago I would have spoken about a "spiritual crisis." I was wrong, and that's still wrong, unless Reiki healers can start opening free clinics and reliably treating actual physical ailments. IOW, I just don't know WTF to do with UFOs. Sorry. I think they're cool, but I'm disgusted by most literature about it; it's so self-unaware it's mind-boggling. I used to think they were a "crack in the great wall." I still sort of do. But the crack in the economy is way fucking bigger, dude.

[vanlose kid]

Barracuda's comment on the praeternatural intelligence thing is correct, I think. At the same time, I think it's getting irrelevant, too. Want to see why we're where we are? B/c the wealthy were conjuring up spirits that suspiciously parroted back the dogma of the racist, elitist social structure they lived in. Funny, huh?

It's clear that 1. a network of narco-pedo-trafficking exists 2. the modern "intelligence" agencies have been the domain of rapists, torturers, assassins and theives and their existence cannot be justified. Those, among others, are the dirty secrets of the past sixty years.

But those are America's secrets. And if you haven't noticed--America is on its way out. Game's up, dude.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

Those secrets will be less and less important. That's a shame, because so much injustice took place and takes place under those auspices, but short of another Church Committee--and with Obama's More-Bush-Than-Bush Friendly Fascism (assassination lists of citizens? really?), that's not going to happen--it's unlikely that they will be revealed or there be any accounting.

And on that injustice, I don't know what to say. It's become increasingly clear to me that as injust as it is to torture children for the sake of "national security" via some fantasy of mind-controlled sleeper agents dispersed across the world, America is a deeply unjust, deeply hateful place. We hate the poor. We do. And this is the wealthiest nation in the world--the only nation with more visible wealth disparity is Brazil (which, I'll tell you, isn't 'shocking' but is awful)--yet if we used real inflation to calculate poverty, one in four people would be poor. But we tear up railroads and run buses five times a day. We demand cars and make grocery stores illegal. Racism has been institutionalized in an awful way. In New York one in five kids is malnourished, though any conservative will tell you that "malnourished" is an arbitrary term--and it is, but in the fattest nation in the world, you'd think they could spare something from their larders.

A few years ago I would have spoken about a "spiritual crisis." I was wrong, and that's still wrong, unless Reiki healers can start opening free clinics and reliably treating actual physical ailments. IOW, I just don't know WTF to do with UFOs. Sorry. I think they're cool, but I'm disgusted by most literature about it; it's so self-unaware it's mind-boggling. I used to think they were a "crack in the great wall." I still sort of do. But the crack in the economy is way fucking bigger, dude.

Yes.

[barracuda]

I tend to think, nathan, that the horrors which were once associated with mewling lovecraftian hyperentities are these days mainstreamed into the day to day workings of bureaucratic government agencies and overseen by a notional politicized "czar", and the forced planetary impoverishment being implemented by the financial sector over the last however many years you want to go back is all a parcel of that same impulse. Sheer hateful greed on such an astonishing scale has literally never been presented as within the ken of human desires – the theft of trillions by a few while billions starve can maybe only be understood by analogy with the vast forces of evil once considered the province of nightmare. And I used the term “analogy” guardedly, because I dare say the reality is closer to reality than to a handy literary metaphor.

[elfismiles]

I don't know why Bigfoot enters into the schema outlined here at all. I have never seen a presentation in which it was asserted that Bigfoot, or any other postulated cryptozoological species for that matter, was the subject, really, of a conspiracy - political, scientific or otherwise, beyond baldfaced smalltime fraud.

Here are some basic introductory links RE: Bigfoot Conspiracy, at least one of which, I believe, has been talked about here at RI somehwere...

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-ne ... als-video/
http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-repo ... onspiracy/
http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/sas-scheme1/
http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/sas-scheme2/
http://www.sasquatchdocu.com/main.html

I don't think it has to be part of the schema but it does get discussed within the RI forum. And the MSM and public often use belief in bigfoot as a kook-signifier much as they use "grassy knoll" and "conspiracy theory".

The search for possible new species of creatures on the face of the planet is pretty straightforwardly scientific, even if it can involve remaining open-minded to some pretty weird possibilities. I mean, of a list such as:

a. Creeping totalitarianism in corporate media
b. The relationship of UFO's to the National Security State
c. Satanic Ritual Abuse of children
d. Government trauma-based mind control experiments
e. Nazi infiltration of the post-war military industrial and political scene
f. Sea serpents

...it's not that hard to tell which doesn't belong. Until there surfaces a body of evidence intimating that attempts have been made to weaponize nazi skyfish, it seems like it may be safe to assert a benign pidgenholing of cryptids as a distinct and somewhat separate category to be a reasonable point of view, with the attendant wish to avoid offending any crew of serious-faced Bigfoot researchers in the crowd.

No offense taken ...

Even discussions of interdimensional entities have a political facet, since it has been shown that the state apparatus maintains an interest in at least claiming to have dealings with the critters.

The "para" universe seems to consists of a mosaic of undelying priciples and connectivity. On some level, one of those universals is the use of the topic for purposes of disinformation, and as nathan notes, fundamentalist eschaton-money raising, antisemitism, racism, and sheer confusion. But when honestly examing the paranormal, in essence, the undefinable qualia of each seemingly discrete unfathomable phenomenon has a relationship with every other one, so that to attempt to isolate them can be fruitless. The tendency to do so, while understandable, is an overlay of traditions of scientific inquiry which may not be well suited to developing an understanding or even a vocabulary for discussing the these things for which words fail. So to put many of the subjects under discussion here side-by-side may be profitable in that way.

Untangling the parapolitical use of people's beliefs in paranormal phenomena, while also investigating the possible validity and reality of said para-phenomena, is why we're here.

We have plenty of examples of how people's beliefs in vampires, ETs, alien spacecraft, and even lake monsters, have been utilized by the PTB to enable all manner of parapolitical covert-ops.

But my understanding of the world has always been that there is really nothing paranormative about torture. Torture is a standard operating procedure throughout history. It is, however, an outcome of the most egregious state abuse of power, and, more to the point, incredible and unfathomable to most of us, which is part of what causes the inclusion in this realm of the subject. Such abuse is, unfortunately, actually part of the life histories of real persons reading and writing here. However, I think any conversation or possible connection which is approached respectfully, honestly, and in the spirit of seeking knowledge should be accorded headspace in this venue, as in the world at large.

Amen 'cuda.

[operator kos]

IOW, I just don't know WTF to do with UFOs. Sorry. I think they're cool, but I'm disgusted by most literature about it; it's so self-unaware it's mind-boggling. I used to think they were a "crack in the great wall." I still sort of do. But the crack in the economy is way fucking bigger, dude.

I think that touches upon a very important consideration. 9/11, UFOs, MK, and intel drug/pedo trafficking rings are all areas which I feel could put a big crack in the very foundation of The Establishment.

But there are also huge problems which are much more visible- the environment, the economy, the GWOT, etc. Solving any of those areas would be a massive step in the right direction too, but it might not necessarily address the underlying structural problems that led to the situation getting so bad in the first place. Although of course of you pursue any of them far enough, you'll touch upon items in the previous category.

So an activist, with a limited amount of time, has to make a strategic choice. Working on the former category is a bit of a very low-probability, very high reward gamble. Working on the latter category is just regular low-probability, high reward if successful.

Personally, I guess I'm hedging my bets. On the one hand, I wrote a book about 9/11, I go to at least one 9/11 demo a month, and now I'm working on a book about MK. But I also work five days a week at a fairly mainstream environmental organization. That's just me, and huge props to anyone who finds a way to tackle any of this.

[slomo]

Barracuda's comment on the praeternatural intelligence thing is correct, I think. At the same time, I think it's getting irrelevant, too. Want to see why we're where we are? B/c the wealthy were conjuring up spirits that suspiciously parroted back the dogma of the racist, elitist social structure they lived in. Funny, huh?

It's clear that 1. a network of narco-pedo-trafficking exists 2. the modern "intelligence" agencies have been the domain of rapists, torturers, assassins and theives and their existence cannot be justified. Those, among others, are the dirty secrets of the past sixty years.

But those are America's secrets. And if you haven't noticed--America is on its way out. Game's up, dude.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts
Those secrets will be less and less important. That's a shame, because so much injustice took place and takes place under those auspices, but short of another Church Committee--and with Obama's More-Bush-Than-Bush Friendly Fascism (assassination lists of citizens? really?), that's not going to happen--it's unlikely that they will be revealed or there be any accounting.

And on that injustice, I don't know what to say. It's become increasingly clear to me that as injust as it is to torture children for the sake of "national security" via some fantasy of mind-controlled sleeper agents dispersed across the world, America is a deeply unjust, deeply hateful place. We hate the poor. We do. And this is the wealthiest nation in the world--the only nation with more visible wealth disparity is Brazil (which, I'll tell you, isn't 'shocking' but is awful)--yet if we used real inflation to calculate poverty, one in four people would be poor. But we tear up railroads and run buses five times a day. We demand cars and make grocery stores illegal. Racism has been institutionalized in an awful way. In New York one in five kids is malnourished, though any conservative will tell you that "malnourished" is an arbitrary term--and it is, but in the fattest nation in the world, you'd think they could spare something from their larders.

A few years ago I would have spoken about a "spiritual crisis." I was wrong, and that's still wrong, unless Reiki healers can start opening free clinics and reliably treating actual physical ailments. IOW, I just don't know WTF to do with UFOs. Sorry. I think they're cool, but I'm disgusted by most literature about it; it's so self-unaware it's mind-boggling. I used to think they were a "crack in the great wall." I still sort of do. But the crack in the economy is way fucking bigger, dude.

I disagree. It really is a spiritual crisis, as per Baraccuda's most recent comment. We are so far gone that the only solution is spiritual. Not in a "let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya" kind of way, but in a willful redirection of consciousness kind of way. And we are so far behind that the initial acts are necessarily individual, before we can even reconnect in any kind of convivial way. I will be more direct than I was in my last post: a critical step is recognizing that we are living in one of the hell realms. Perhaps not the deepest one, but a hell nonetheless. Happiness is not possible on this plane of existence. Once we accept that fact, other possibilities of consciousness open up.

As for Reiki and physical ailments. Medical treatment on that level of consciousness requires the participation of the patient at multiple levels of awareness, and that is rarely the case, given that most people ultimately invest in the primacy of the physical plane, and are severely conflicted about incarnation. But I have experienced self-healing by means of conscious will power, and been witness to almost miraculous bouts of healing. Because it is rare, unreliable, and institutionally nonviable does not mean that it is not true.

[slomo]

IOW, I just don't know WTF to do with UFOs. Sorry. I think they're cool, but I'm disgusted by most literature about it; it's so self-unaware it's mind-boggling. I used to think they were a "crack in the great wall." I still sort of do. But the crack in the economy is way fucking bigger, dude.

I think that touches upon a very important consideration. 9/11, UFOs, MK, and intel drug/pedo trafficking rings are all areas which I feel could put a big crack in the very foundation of The Establishment.

But there are also huge problems which are much more visible- the environment, the economy, the GWOT, etc. Solving any of those areas would be a massive step in the right direction too, but it might not necessarily address the underlying structural problems that led to the situation getting so bad in the first place. Although of course of you pursue any of them far enough, you'll touch upon items in the previous category.

So an activist, with a limited amount of time, has to make a strategic choice. Working on the former category is a bit of a very low-probability, very high reward gamble. Working on the latter category is just regular low-probability, high reward if successful.

Personally, I guess I'm hedging my bets. On the one hand, I wrote a book about 9/11, I go to at least one 9/11 demo a month, and now I'm working on a book about MK. But I also work five days a week at a fairly mainstream environmental organization. That's just me, and huge props to anyone who finds a way to tackle any of this.

The environmental crisis is caused by the same spiritual problem as everything else. It is based on a deep, fundamental cognitive error. Conventional environmental movements are at best a game of whack-a-mole, at worst a severely coopted endeavor. I'm not criticizing the many good souls involved, and I do make "green" decisions in my everyday life, as much as possible. But our treatment of the non-human world is really a deep problem of consciousness.

Take the BP clusterfuck, for example. It is convenient to scapegoat BP, its management, and its execrable enablers at the very highest levels of our government. But the reality is that each and every one of us Americans is to blame. We are the ones that drive the cars, we are the ones that keep buying shit made of plastic, and we are the ones that keep eating the corn-based-HFCS-laden pseudo-food that is made possible by the existence of petroleum. Sure, we've been brainwashed to love our plastic products and have been coerced into living in suburbs, but fundamentally we are complicit in this process. Until we demand at a deep and collective level some different way of life, we guarantee that the oil will keep spilling and befouling Neptune's domain.