ParaTopics: Segregation, Balance, or Wheat From Chaff?

[slomo]

Also, one more thing, a clarification, in case someone misconstrues what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that we should all just gaze at our navels and do the 1970s human-potential-new-age thing. While I don't doubt the power of directed meditation, it's not for everybody, and turned to narcissistic ends it is at best, useless, and at worst, destructive.

Rather, I am saying that whatever activism you are inclined towards (and there are many forms, suited to different temperaments), do it with attention to its consciousness-changing potential. Use activism not as means for changing the physical world - such efforts alone are doomed - but rather as a means of changing the foundations of how we envision the world. This is a subtle point, but I believe critical.

[8bitagent]

Barracuda's comment on the praeternatural intelligence thing is correct, I think. At the same time, I think it's getting irrelevant, too. Want to see why we're where we are? B/c the wealthy were conjuring up spirits that suspiciously parroted back the dogma of the racist, elitist social structure they lived in. Funny, huh?

I agree. Krabulonzorlial from six dimension nebula H might be puppeteering and feeding off the negative energy of human activity for millennia, but for the Cambodian kids in sex slave cages...the civilians of Kenya and Sudan being raped and killed en masse...to the Pakistani villagers being blown up almost daily by Obama's drones...to the carp fishery slaves of Tanzania...its the real tangible "NWO/PTB" controlling elite that matters.

Still though...if we live in a world where John Dee, Ruwa School 1994 and the Mothman coexists, along with non government UFOS, I cant see how these wouldnt be intimately tied to history and the powers that be and all that is going on. Im not religious tho, as much as Id love to believe some bearded man in the sky made us all and is going to "save us"

IOW, I just don't know WTF to do with UFOs. Sorry. I think they're cool, but I'm disgusted by most literature about it; it's so self-unaware it's mind-boggling. I used to think they were a "crack in the great wall." I still sort of do. But the crack in the economy is way fucking bigger, dude.

I think that touches upon a very important consideration. 9/11, UFOs, MK, and intel drug/pedo trafficking rings are all areas which I feel could put a big crack in the very foundation of The Establishment.

But there are also huge problems which are much more visible- the environment, the economy, the GWOT, etc. Solving any of those areas would be a massive step in the right direction too, but it might not necessarily address the underlying structural problems that led to the situation getting so bad in the first place. Although of course of you pursue any of them far enough, you'll touch upon items in the previous category.

So an activist, with a limited amount of time, has to make a strategic choice. Working on the former category is a bit of a very low-probability, very high reward gamble. Working on the latter category is just regular low-probability, high reward if successful.

Personally, I guess I'm hedging my bets. On the one hand, I wrote a book about 9/11, I go to at least one 9/11 demo a month, and now I'm working on a book about MK. But I also work five days a week at a fairly mainstream environmental organization. That's just me, and huge props to anyone who finds a way to tackle any of this.

I stopped going to 9/11 rallys when it just became "WAKE UP! 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB YOU SHEEP!" and "CONTROLLED DEMOLITION! LOOK AT THE FACTS!" It was sometimes the same treatment by the idiot liberals Id encounter at massive anti war rallies who didnt like my 9/11 Truth or Stop Israeli war crime signs back in the day.

Most these truthers dont know cock-all about the real facts of 9/11, they are simply parroting study sheets and red herring half baked "facts" that stick around like a fart in the room. I don't even blame David Ray Griffin, Alex Jones, or whoever else for turning 9/11 research into a lazy campfire tale. How many "truthers" know anything about al Qaeda, al Qaeda role in Bosnia and Chechnya, Middle Eastern politics, hawala money transfers, the roots of Islamic extremism, etc? Most Ive met just get angry when you suggest 9/11 was anything other than "Cheney, neocons, CIA, Pentagon, Mossad and Larry Silverstein".
I bet the real perps behind 9/11 love this cartoonish meme; as it seems as bullheaded as the liberal and right wing stalwarts who get angry at anyone who questions the official narrative.
Now I realize not everyone can process the work of Peter Dale Scott, Paul Thompson, Nafeez Ahmed, Michel Choussoudovsky, Michael Rupert...but as of 2010 the "truther" talking points lifted right out of Loose Change have not held too much sway within mainstream public opinion(as much as Alex Jones and others claim otherwise)

On the other hand, depending upon the nature and intention of said MSM attention, I personally might mention such parapsychological 911 data as the Princeton REG/EGG experiments and other paranormal synchronicities surrounding September 11th. But again, to me that is a different situation / circumstance than participating in an anti-war / political rally and bringing up same.

THIS. I believe there is room for an esoteric and symbolic interpretation of 9/11. The Princeton thing is interesting, as I know a number of people(and from I have read: millions) who had nightmarish synchronistic dreams right before or even the day before 9/11.

However, when it comes to the here and now and this reality, for the people affected by the tragedy and still being affected; it really has to be the dedicated research that seems to "bore" or "not interest" the wham whiz bam sex truther, as this is what gets heard in court. I'll take Ptech, Saudi financing, ISI facilitating, Visa Express program, Israeli spies, and FBI obstruction over "super duper nano thermite melting points, missing planes and faked plane audio recordings" any day as I just do not see that provable in the eyes of a court. I mean we got audio recordings of FBI informant Emad Salem talking about "building the bomb" from the 1993 world trade center trial. We dont have evidence that Larry Silverstein, Bush and CIA agents planted explosives in the twin towers.

Of course Bush and Obama's lackies, to appease the Saudis and other interests have thrown out and blocked every single 9/11 family lawsuit...so there really is not much hope for social justice.

[8bitagent]

Here's another thought: What percentage of the 90's era to contemporary "conspiracy researcher and discussion" groups and folks do you think this is all merely a a form of fantasy baseball or football? A game really, just to pass the time. Trade Barry Bonds and A-rod for Cheney, Dyncorp and Mossad. Is it all just mental masturbation? For real survivors of RA, fathers who got agent orange, victims of crimes related to the state or corporations, etc its no game. But theres a mighty disconnect.

But to the original post while I am open to believing in the possibility of both...how is it the UFO/paranormal/coast to coast crowd can laugh at the para politic/9-11/coverup crowd?
As was mentioned, as if believing in UFOs and Sasquatch is somehow more believable than deadly coverups by such and such agency?

I disagree. It really is a spiritual crisis, as per Baraccuda's most recent comment. We are so far gone that the only solution is spiritual. Not in a "let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya" kind of way, but in a willful redirection of consciousness kind of way. And we are so far behind that the initial acts are necessarily individual, before we can even reconnect in any kind of convivial way. I will be more direct than I was in my last post: a critical step is recognizing that we are living in one of the hell realms. Perhaps not the deepest one, but a hell nonetheless. Happiness is not possible on this plane of existence. Once we accept that fact, other possibilities of consciousness open up.

As for Reiki and physical ailments. Medical treatment on that level of consciousness requires the participation of the patient at multiple levels of awareness, and that is rarely the case, given that most people ultimately invest in the primacy of the physical plane, and are severely conflicted about incarnation. But I have experienced self-healing by means of conscious will power, and been witness to almost miraculous bouts of healing. Because it is rare, unreliable, and institutionally nonviable does not mean that it is not true.

We have, as a whole., been so dumbed down by chemically altered processed foods that seep into our brains, by noise, expectations, memes, and so forth that I am truly amazed when I find anyone who still has goals or can think clearly or has even the willingness to gain new perspectives and reach toward their truer self. The self not completely polluted by the oil slick of the modern world.
I absolutely agree, that there is a spiritual and conscious/subconscious crisis.

*

Haha, I keep meaning to see those guys and Neubauten when they play here.

[Cedars of Overburden]

Also, one more thing, a clarification, in case someone misconstrues what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that we should all just gaze at our navels and do the 1970s human-potential-new-age thing. While I don't doubt the power of directed meditation, it's not for everybody, and turned to narcissistic ends it is at best, useless, and at worst, destructive.

Rather, I am saying that whatever activism you are inclined towards (and there are many forms, suited to different temperaments), do it with attention to its consciousness-changing potential. Use activism not as means for changing the physical world - such efforts alone are doomed - but rather as a means of changing the foundations of how we envision the world. This is a subtle point, but I believe critical.

Slomo, after Centering Prayer meeting this past week, I found myself explaining at great length to my Centering Prayer comrades what I did back when I was trying to organize a general strike to impeach Bush. I then found myself saying "we still need it. America needs a three-day time out! Three days of fasting and prayer."

Is that a crude Christian kind of way to say what you're saying? The interesting thing to me was that this was the very first time that I had talked about the entire concept with a group of middle class white people and they were actually interested. (Before that, the only people who really seemed to understand me were working class blacks when I'd canvas the city bus terminal.) I've been trying to be cynical and just shrug off my general strike obsession, but it's not working. I KEEP obsessing about it.

(Centering Prayer -- contemplative prayer -- as in monasteries -- only with slightly different rules because it is for the laity. From a distance, it looks like Christian meditation.)

I have to leave the computer for the weekend very soon, but I am intensely interested in what you're saying here.

[slomo]

Also, one more thing, a clarification, in case someone misconstrues what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that we should all just gaze at our navels and do the 1970s human-potential-new-age thing. While I don't doubt the power of directed meditation, it's not for everybody, and turned to narcissistic ends it is at best, useless, and at worst, destructive.

Rather, I am saying that whatever activism you are inclined towards (and there are many forms, suited to different temperaments), do it with attention to its consciousness-changing potential. Use activism not as means for changing the physical world - such efforts alone are doomed - but rather as a means of changing the foundations of how we envision the world. This is a subtle point, but I believe critical.

Slomo, after Centering Prayer meeting this past week, I found myself explaining at great length to my Centering Prayer comrades what I did back when I was trying to organize a general strike to impeach Bush. I then found myself saying "we still need it. America needs a three-day time out! Three days of fasting and prayer."

Is that a crude Christian kind of way to say what you're saying? The interesting thing to me was that this was the very first time that I had talked about the entire concept with a group of middle class white people and they were actually interested. (Before that, the only people who really seemed to understand me were working class blacks when I'd canvas the city bus terminal.) I've been trying to be cynical and just shrug off my general strike obsession, but it's not working. I KEEP obsessing about it.

(Centering Prayer -- contemplative prayer -- as in monasteries -- only with slightly different rules because it is for the laity. From a distance, it looks like Christian meditation.)

I have to leave the computer for the weekend very soon, but I am intensely interested in what you're saying here.

Yes. Exactly along those lines.

And though I am Buddhist/neo-pagan with occultist leanings, I am coming to the realization that Christianity is an important powerful force, if it can be separated from Touchdown Jesus and all that he represents.

[Elvis]

...I am saying that whatever activism you are inclined towards (and there are many forms, suited to different temperaments), do it with attention to its consciousness-changing potential. Use activism not as means for changing the physical world - such efforts alone are doomed - but rather as a means of changing the foundations of how we envision the world. This is a subtle point, but I believe critical.

I agree, I think the foundations are spiritual. (and let me say, Slomo, I wish more scientists were as open-minded as you.)

For a long time I've thought, and still do, that if everyone knew our true spiritual (for lack of a less-abused word) nature, that we're not merely biological mechanisms, we'd make wiser choices, know bullshit when we see it, recognize evil and advance the species.

When I bring this up with people, some say, "It's an interesting question, but ultimately, does it really matter?" You're further persuading me that it does matter.

The more we recognize that it really is a spiritual crisis, as you well put it, the more the "mundane" horrors will (to utterly oversimplify) take care of themselves.


I don't know about others, but I'm getting a real synthesis from all the thoughts expressed on this thread. Kind of like, "now we're getting somewhere." My cosmology is tweaked.


Meanwhile, my landlord's gonna put me uptight if I don't end my current Internet binge and scare up some wicked fiat currency for him.

[Elvis]

I remain absolutely convinced — to this day — that we are living inside a great deception. This deception has human perpetrators, obviously, but its instigators are not human. I understand that most people will dismiss this kind of talk

Simulist, I don't dismiss it at all, and naturally I'm curious about any part of it you could elaborate on. (e.g., the very existence of the world is a big Trick being played on us? or do you only mean the deception is social/political? what are the instigators like? and so on)

I think you're correct on some level at least. I might say instead, "we are living inside a great illusion. This illusion has human participants, obviously, but its creators are not human." Your words imply something sinister, and I'm willing to take your sense of 'knowingness' on this seriously.

[8bitagent]

I remain absolutely convinced — to this day — that we are living inside a great deception. This deception has human perpetrators, obviously, but its instigators are not human. I understand that most people will dismiss this kind of talk

Simulist, I don't dismiss it at all, and naturally I'm curious about any part of it you could elaborate on. (e.g., the very existence of the world is a big Trick being played on us? or do you only mean the deception is social/political? what are the instigators like? and so on)

I think you're correct on some level at least. I might say instead, "we are living inside a great illusion. This illusion has human participants, obviously, but its creators are not human." Your words imply something sinister, and I'm willing to take your sense of 'knowingness' on this seriously.

I agree 100% with Simulist's analysis. Im a left wing, anti creationist, generally scientific minded laugh out loud at Christianity as well as at a lot of conspiracy fringe culture/beliefs...but when all is said and done, I definitely would have to agree with Simulist's line of thinking. How can anyone read Jeff's blog and *not* think there's something much more vexing and bizarre going on beyond the scope of "neocons, Zionists and banksters"?

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Option not offered for voting-

Exposing how WOO is designed and marketed by spooks to misdirect is the most coherent and truthful story to be told. Why?
Because it both reveals What They Don't Want You to Know and their techniques for keeping you from knowing.

Jeff Wells discourages this pursuit at his board and attempts to segregate these two knowledge bases in separate threads.

But many people get it anyway.

[Elvis]

Exposing how WOO is designed and marketed by spooks to misdirect is the most coherent and truthful story to be told.

Hi Hugh,
Among the voices on this forum, yours was one of the first to stand out to me as a distinct personality and I always look forward to your comments. I think you're onto something, because the science seems to be there, and if I was a manipulative spook organization trying to distract the masses from certain thoughts, I'd probably use it.

But, 1) I'm quite convinced, beyond mere 'faith', that much paranormal phenomena, or whatever we want to call it, is real (maybe even more real than "real"), and 2) some of your examples seem quite a stretch, much more likely ascribed to everyday happenstance.

Let's say that ghosts or flying saucers or ESP are real; your overall theory could still have merit, couldn't it?

[Simulist]

Jeff Wells discourages this pursuit at his board and attempts to segregate these two knowledge bases in separate threads.

Actually, Jeff has an amazingly high pain threshold, it seems to me.

[elfismiles]

Exposing how WOO is designed and marketed by spooks to misdirect is the most coherent and truthful story to be told.

Hi Hugh,
Among the voices on this forum, yours was one of the first to stand out to me as a distinct personality and I always look forward to your comments. I think you're onto something, because the science seems to be there, and if I was a manipulative spook organization trying to distract the masses from certain thoughts, I'd probably use it.

But, 1) I'm quite convinced, beyond mere 'faith', that much paranormal phenomena, or whatever we want to call it, is real (maybe even more real than "real"), and 2) some of your examples seem quite a stretch, much more likely ascribed to everyday happenstance.

Let's say that ghosts or flying saucers or ESP are real; your overall theory could still have merit, couldn't it?

Untangling the parapolitical use of people's beliefs in paranormal phenomena, while also investigating the possible validity and reality of said para-phenomena, is why we're here.

We have plenty of examples of how people's beliefs in vampires, ETs, alien spacecraft, and even lake monsters, have been utilized by the PTB to enable all manner of parapolitical covert-ops.

Internet Honeypot Info
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11414

Conspiracy Theories Drain Our Political Energy, Lead Nowhere
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23748

The Conspiracy Conspiracy
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28596

[operator kos]

1) I have no problem with whatever sort of spirituality people want to pursue as long as it doesn't make them politically/socially inactive, i.e. doing concrete physical things to put the world on a better track. It really pisses me off when people claim that sending out good vibes and raising consciousness counts as activism. Folks here seem to get that though.

2) Much as the anarchist in me hates to admit it, top-down solutions not only sometimes work, they are sometimes needed. Example: In another thread I mentioned that large parts of our oceans now contain more plastic than plankton. 60-80% of this is from plastic bags. We can beg and plead and educate all we want, but people are still going to use billions of plastic bags per year UNLESS it is made illegal. But hey, good news. In California, AB 1998 has passed the assembly and is now in the state senate. If it passes the senate, Schwarzenegger has said he will sign it. AB 1998 will completely ban the sale of plastic bags in California, and mandate that grocery stores and other retailers sell reusable bags. This is a top-down solution, but if it passes it will be a BFD and make a huge difference in a very ugly problem.

P.S. If you want a little grassroots participation in this solution, and you live in California, call your STATE senator (not Feinstein/Boxer) and tell them to vote for the bill.

[Elvis]

I have no problem with whatever sort of spirituality people want to pursue as long as it doesn't make them politically/socially inactive, i.e. doing concrete physical things to put the world on a better track. It really pisses me off when people claim that sending out good vibes and raising consciousness counts as activism.

Hi Kos...Speaking for myself, I didn't mean to imply that "real-world" activism serves no purpose---it's critical, and I really should have made that clear. I've done what I can according to my temperament, plus tried some things not suited to my temperament. When I say "take care of the spiritual and the physical will take care of itself," that's admittedly a pipe dream---but---like reducing the use of plastic grocery bags, the time to start is Now. (I got my two hemp shopping bags which I schlep the six blocks to the grocery store.)

call your STATE senator

Some would scoff at appealing to elected representatives, but it can make make a difference sometimes. They say writing a letter is taken more seriously than a phone call, and talk to them in their language, i.e. use a business-letter format and make one's point short and clear.

[Elvis]

top-down solutions not only sometimes work, they are sometimes needed

That seems to be so. Affirmative Action was borne out of systemic discrimination that called for a systemic correction, and I think it worked to a great degree. And what a lot of activism it took. (of course, if everyone had the Brotherly Love good vibes, we wouldn't have needed affirmative action laws, but we don't, so we did.)
Accordingly, if plastic bags are a systemic problem and the SCOTUS can give affirmative action a pass, a legislature should be able to respond to plastic pollution.