What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

[Nordic]

It is, though, entirely possible that a parallel society of persons or creatures embodying these traits co-exists with us here without our knowledge of them, and has for many eons.

That's why I believe these craft are piloted by Bigfoot.

(kidding)

[Wombaticus Rex]

Gravitational lensing comes to mind when I see the craft separating and coming together -- seems like it's probably one craft under extreme visual distortion due to high energy levels or somesuch. Sonoluminescence also comes to mind, one reason I was so interested in the Jim Schnabel chapter on fluid injection into the earth causing subsequent UFO activity.

Oh, and...I was the vote for Vimana...I see no need to update the terminology when nothing more has really been learned about them...

[82_28]

[KeenInsight]

amazing real elf babe found in the woods and caught on camera

[barracuda]

Yeah, yeah, they make ads where the voiceover says the acronym "ufo" as an inticement to the pitch. I get it. Have you seen the Pringles potato chip ads? I wonder if Lucy Pringle's getting any royalties. There's a teevee commercial out there somewhere too.



If ssomebody posts Michael Schenker playing "Lights Out" or some shit on this thread, I'm gonna be pissed.

Gravitational lensing

I love that idea, but it doesn't seem to speak to origins of a phenomena, but rather an effect of one. Such a mirage might be associated with any of the possibilities on Stephen's list.

WRONG!!!

It just seems like a long way to go, you know, but hey, I drove 300 miles for a White Castle hamburger once, so I guess it's not entirely out of the question.

[DrVolin]

Why post Lights Out when you can post Doctor Doctor



As for UFOs, some sightings certainly point to rare geo-phenomena, while others would make sense as 3D projections of higher D realities. And Elves. For sure.

[elfismiles]

I voted for "Elves" for obvious reasons.

While the ufo phenomenon is actually made up of a tapestry of sources (several of which are on the list in the poll), my ideas about the true nature of "The UFO Problem" is that it represents a Gaian Matrix / Virtual Transpersonal Interspecies Communications Channel. I believe that there are certain natural forces at play on the earth (and always have been) that certain people are more sensitive to than others and that facilitate communication with a variety of consciousnesses ranging from the percipients own unconscious archetypes to the archetypes of our collective unconscious to the consciousnesses of other intelligences (native and non-native to earth) but which can occasionally physically manifest in our "reality" the way Tulpas are alleged to be able to do. Among the many types of intelligences / consciousnesses I think people encounter are non-corporeal Ball of Light entities (which may just be the roaming POVs of humans and non-humans) as well as the Collective Unconscious of(and the archetypes within) of humanity as well as a Gaian Mind as well as the collective unconscious of other earth species including the insect and reptilian kingdoms.

...

Why Saucer Menace / Why UFO Problem:

The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem - UFO Evidence
This paper intends to present the elements of the UFO problem, today. Truly unidentified reports of events in the air, and close to the ground, exist, ...
www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1140.htm

UFO - An Appraisal of the Problem - UFO Evidence
To gain a fresh and objective perspective on the UFO problem, the UFO .... There is an interesting parallel between the history of the UFO problem and the ...
www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc310.htm

Thesis: THE UFO PROBLEM: TIME FOR A REASSESSMENT
Anyone attempting a discussion of the UFO problem must present his scientific/technological credentials to the reader. Failure to present some assurance ...
www.cufon.org/cufon/afthes2.htm

BLOGDIAL » Blog Archive » The UFO Problem from a Strategic Events ...
Apr 13, 2010 ... Chivers of The Telegraph gives us his take on the UFO Problem from a Strategic Events Perspective: http://bit.ly/948fE3 [...] ...
http://irdial.com/blogdial/?p=2551

UFOS at close sight: science and the UFO phenomenon
Jan 1, 2007 ... There are scientists that do not laugh the UFO problem away. .... The emerging picture of the UFO problem, by Dr. J. Allen Hynek, ...
www.ufologie.net/htm/science.htm

To: Those Interested in the UFO Problem 7 Michigan Terrace Browns ...
To: Those Interested in the UFO Problem From: Joseph J. Stefula (609) 893-9278 7 Michigan Terrace Browns Mills, NJ 08015 Richard D. Butler (609) 625-2890 ...
www.skepticfiles.org/skeptic/ufoknapl.htm

Center for UFO Studies
Report on a survey of the membership of the American Astronomical Society concerning the UFO problem. Journal of Scientific Exploration, 8(1), 1-46. ...
www.cufos.org/advbooks.html

Mariana UFO incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... Mariana's film "was the one sighting of all time that did more than any other single case to convince me that there is something to the UFO problem". ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_UFO_incident

The Robertson Panel: UFO Study Group
The Robertson Panel would have a great influence on official governmental attitudes toward the UFO problem for many years to come. ...
http://ufos.about.com/od/projectsign/a/ ... npanel.htm

The GEPAN - SEPRA Report-UFO Casebook Files
The UFO problem arises from the verified existence of a very large and coherent set of testimonies worldwide. Its approach is bound to be in three steps: ...
www.ufocasebook.com/gepanreport.html

[elfismiles]

Now, as for each of the options, some quick thoughts...

-Nuts and bolts craft from another world.

Still absolutely possible but to me not the most likely for the reasons outlined by Vallee and others.


-Nuts and bolts craft from inside the hollow earth, or antarctic Nazis.

I think the myths of the hollow earth might have a grain of truth in them at the very least symbolically if my ideas about a Gaian source (or even just the Persinger / Devereux Earth Lights hypoth) are correct.
And these ideas may dovetail with Keel's idea of UltraTerrestrials and Mac Tonnies ideas of CryptoTerrestrials. It doesn't have to actually include a "hollow earth" but rather a subterranean world more utilized and populated than we currently imagine.
The Nazi Saucer meme ... well, I find it highly interesting and definitely entertaining. Vallee and others have asserted that (a la Project Paperclip) the USA grabbed much of the mad science the Nazis were working on which included many things which may have come to be a part of the UFO mythos (see Redfern's Bodysnatchers in the Desert) but that supposedly the Russians got the best tech before the Allies got there.


-Nuts and bolts military prototypes or modified helicopters.

This is ABSOLUTELY part of the tapestry of the phenomena at work.


-Time machines, possibly from humanity in the future.

Seems plausible but truly complicates everything. Check out the inspiration for 12 Monkeys, La Jetée:


-Vimanas, spirit-craft.

YES. If there are Tibetan Tulpas and if Shamen can project their consciousness across space (and TIME - see above) then BOL (Ball Of Light) and other UFOs might just be disembodied consciousnesses.


-Screen memories for MK experiments and SRA.

Vallee asserted this quite specifically at the 1992 Mufon conference in Albuqurque, New Mexico. I may even have posted the transcipt of his comments somewhere here at RI. I was there in the audience. That was my first big ufo conference.


-Elves or other blue-and-orange morality non/semi-corporeal beings.

Could be as straight forward as BoLs or something more like the Gaian UFOs I've proposed.


-Demons. Evil non-corporeal beings.

Keel's UltraTerrestrials ... they've been here longer than we have and are pissed off at us for taking over the planet.


-Earth lights, geomagnetic doo-dahs, ball lighting, plasma vortexes, etc..

I still think this is one of the most important ASPECTS of understanding UFOs. However, I don't agree with its use as a materialist-reductionist debunking tool by Persinger and other "skeptics"


-Created by the media and intelligence services as a disinfo psy-op.

I wouldn't say "created" by the media or the Mil-Ind-Complex. I'd say "capitalized upon" for their own purposes.

[Stephen Morgan]

What is blue-and-orange morality? Is that a special kind of morality or is it just a way of saying that they are complimentary like the colors?
I'm curious because someone asked years ago, why are all the backgrounds on TV using blue and orange.
Maybe I should go to the "you're a conspiracy theorist if.." thread.

Humans have black and white morality because we believe in good and not good. We see things as good or bad or a bit of both. Creatures with blue and orange morality have an entirely seperate type or morality. Like the Shadows in Babylon 5. The younger races saw them as evil, really they just had a seperate system of morality and thought they were doing good.

Personally I think you-foes are a manifestation of the collective unconscious trying to teach us how to build interstellar space craft.

[Stephen Morgan]

I think you have to be a bit more discriminating. A classic saucer or cigar craft can seem undeniably a nuts and bolts unit. On many of the photographs, say for instance the Trent images, you can literally identify construction details of the exterior of the craft, and so their origin resonates very strongly with this realm, this planet, even this time. They were built by individuals or groups with making abilities concisely analgous to our own, that is, I would venture to say that whoever built them has both binocular vision as well as opposable thumbs, walks upright, and is bilaterally symmetrical in physique. Joined overlapping plates of metal, any metal, and windowed interiors speak of creatures greatly if not entirely like ourselves. For this reason, my feeling is that such craft are built on Earth, that they are of contemporary build, and are built by persons or creatures indigenous to this planet. It is, though, entirely possible that a parallel society of persons or creatures embodying these traits co-exists with us here without our knowledge of them, and has for many eons. The ability of the biological sciences to firmly identify only a small percentage of the indigenous species resident here implys a vast repertoire of possibilities, the most likely being the almost completely unexplored realms of the ocean depths. The fact that many, many sighting of these types of craft involve water and oceanic backgrounds further adds to my hypothesis that there exist a species, a bipedal primate, quite advanced, which has taken back to the sea, and has renounced the pragmatic world of belching industrialism and soot filled skies for the intuitive and telepathic regions along the deepest energised lay-lined routes of the ocean bottoms vaguely known to the ancients, and from them drawing their power and stealth. They love to harrass our plodding and ineffectual airships, and to make calculated forays into the interiors of the drylands to satisfy their curious nature. But their opinions of us must resemble the opinions of whales, distant and reproving, seen through the lens of a decision made untold ages ago, to return forever to the sea.

But where do you think this bipedal primate originates? Personally I'm not convinced, any more, of the nuts and bolts hypotheses, pictures can be faked, eye witnesses may be fooled by their own minds or by whatever outside force caused them to see the things they see.

[elfismiles]

What is blue-and-orange morality? Is that a special kind of morality or is it just a way of saying that they are complimentary like the colors?
I'm curious because someone asked years ago, why are all the backgrounds on TV using blue and orange.
Maybe I should go to the "you're a conspiracy theorist if.." thread.

Humans have black and white morality because we believe in good and not good. We see things as good or bad or a bit of both. Creatures with blue and orange morality have an entirely seperate type or morality. Like the Shadows in Babylon 5. The younger races saw them as evil, really they just had a seperate system of morality and thought they were doing good.

Personally I think you-foes are a manifestation of the collective unconscious trying to teach us how to build interstellar space craft.

Thanks for answering that question as I'd meant to inquire myself. Ahhh, BabballingOn-5. A personal fave.

... "you-foes are a manifestation of the collective unconscious trying to teach us how to build interstellar space craft" reminds me of another fave, McKenna.

And this is part of my Gaian UFOs idea; if Gaia exists part of her goals might be prepare ever more intelligent life for encounters with life from other planets.

[Simulist]

Thanks to Elfismiles for mentioning La Jetée, the 28 minute-long short film on time travel that inspired Twelve Monkeys.

Here is what Wikipedia says about the film:

La jetée (English: The Jetty or The Pier) (1962) is a 28-minute black and white science fiction film by Chris Marker. Constructed almost entirely from still photos, it tells the story of a post-nuclear war experiment in time travel. The film won the Prix Jean Vigo for short film.

And here is a link to the entire 28 minute film at Google Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 506734237#

[norton ash]

I don't know. I asked my dog, and he doesn't know either. I will poll all the plants in the back yard next.

[Stephen Morgan]

I think the myths of the hollow earth might have a grain of truth in them at the very least symbolically if my ideas about a Gaian source (or even just the Persinger / Devereux Earth Lights hypoth) are correct.
And these ideas may dovetail with Keel's idea of UltraTerrestrials and Mac Tonnies ideas of CryptoTerrestrials. It doesn't have to actually include a "hollow earth" but rather a subterranean world more utilized and populated than we currently imagine.

I've always had a soft spot for the subterraneans. I've got a load of back issues of Shavertron in front of me right now.

The Nazi Saucer meme ... well, I find it highly interesting and definitely entertaining. Vallee and others have asserted that (a la Project Paperclip) the USA grabbed much of the mad science the Nazis were working on which included many things which may have come to be a part of the UFO mythos (see Redfern's Bodysnatchers in the Desert) but that supposedly the Russians got the best tech before the Allies got there.

Yeah, always amusing.

-Vimanas, spirit-craft.

YES. If there are Tibetan Tulpas and if Shamen can project their consciousness across space (and TIME - see above) then BOL (Ball Of Light) and other UFOs might just be disembodied consciousnesses.

I see in UFO books, fairy lore, spiirit stuff, ancient texts about Indian flying craft, the same odd little bits and pieces cropping up. Like mercury and balsa wood being used to make flying ships.

Vallee asserted this quite specifically at the 1992 Mufon conference in Albuqurque, New Mexico. I may even have posted the transcipt of his comments somewhere here at RI. I was there in the audience. That was my first big ufo conference.

I've never been to a UFO conference, but that sounds like an interesting one.

Keel's UltraTerrestrials ... they've been here longer than we have and are pissed off at us for taking over the planet.

Nah, Keel thinks we amuse them. This is the Disneyland of the Gods, you're Mickey Mouse and I'm Pluto.

[Iamwhomiam]

Yes! Norton, please ask the plants. I've heard that certain species on occasion do 'spill the beans.'