"Sinister Forces" by Peter Levenda

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"Sinister Forces" by Peter Levenda

Postby professorpan » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:14 pm

Wow... my pre-ordered copy of "Sinister Forces: A Grimoire of Political Witchcraft" arrived yesterday, and it was worth the wait.<br><br>I'm sure I will be posting excerpts and my thoughts about the book here and on my blog over the next few weeks. I'm only 40 pages into it, but already I have been bowled over by Levenda's research and his ability to connect the dots. It is eerie how much his research dovetails with a novel I've been working on for the past year.<br><br>MUST reading for fans of Jeff's blog. This is a <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>very</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> important work. <p></p><i></i>
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quote from book

Postby anon » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:39 pm

I'm at about page 40 too. WOW! Here's a quote.<br><br>"This is a book about evil. Evil ordinary and extraordinary. Evil vigilant. Evil militant. Evil triumphant. Evil anciet and modern, violent and discrete, beautiful and obscene. Evil in the face of God, of men and women, of children. The evil of vainglorius men and their hollow minions. Evil unseen and fierce. The evil of bodybags and spent cartridges. Of mass graves and crematoria. Of crimes against nature and against heaven. The evil death and derangement, of murder and madness, of suicide and satanism. This is the evil we can't grasp, cannot punish, cannot destroy. The evil that contaminates souls as well as bodies, nations as well as people. This is a book about the evil spirits that haunt America. About the sinister forces that rule the world of our dreams, our nightmares, and our sober trembling, waking reality". <p></p><i></i>
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I hope everyone reads this book

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:46 pm

and the ones to follow. My copy arrived yesterday. I mention it at the end of today's post.<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://sinisterforces.info" target="top">Here</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> is the "Sinister Forces" website, with a link to Levenda's blog.<br><br>Here's an interesting quote, from page 299, regarding occult crime:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Church of Satan was at best a gimmicky New Age operation.... The OTO couldn't organize a box lunch much less a nationwide program of human sacrifice. And the Process does not exist any longer, and hasn't for almost thirty years.<br><br>On the other hand...<br><br>It is a fact of life that many people who join or are attracted to organizations like the three mentioned above are much more serious than their leaders.... To the outside world, these people are all "Process" or "Church of Satan" or even "OTO," but in fact most of them have severed any formal links with these organizations before they begin their criminal activity. What the occult Orders have done, however, deliberately or not, is provide these individuals...with the philosophical basis for their actions; in many cases, providing them with the ritual tools, jargon and psychological conditioning necessary not only to perpetuate their crimes, but to scare the living daylights out of the rest of the population.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Interesting

Postby Qutb » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:36 pm

that Levanda is not a "conspiracy theorist" regarding 9/11. He sticks to the "intelligence failures" theory. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://sinisterforces.info/blog/index.php?/archives/7-A-Question-of-Leadership-at-the-FBI.html">sinisterforces.info/blog/...e-FBI.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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on a levenda tangent

Postby glubglubglub » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:48 pm

it's interesting what turns up. for one thing (perhaps unsurprisingly) 'mainstream revisionist/holocaust denier' David Irving apparently has no interest in the territory tread earlier by Levenda:<br><br>(c) Irving is apparently covering up the intimate involvement of nazism with the occult, thus throwing into doubt his claim of writing 'real history':<br><br>There have been several books written on the role of occultism in nazism, a good one currently in print being Peter Levenda's 1995 book Unholy Alliance. What these books say is that occultism was at the root of nazism and that occult practices were rife among the top nazis, particularly Himmler. Knowing this, but having found no discussion of occultism in Irving's books, I asked him about it. His response was (approximately) "I don't know anything about it." Now coming from the premier historian of the Third Reich, that is an answer which is beyond bizarre. The Thule Society, Hess's astrologically-timed flight, and Himmler's castle and Round Table are just three well-known aspects of nazi occultism; yet Irving claims to be a 'know-nothing' on this subject. It is of course barely possible that nazi occultism -- much like the 'gas chambers' of the Orthodox Jewish Version of the Holocaust -- was a myth or greatly exaggerated; but with so many authors having written on the subject and at such length, it would seem more reasonable to conclude that Irving's 'ignorance' is actually a deliberate omission, the possible reasons for which we shall discuss in a moment. It seems to me that this matter raises serious doubts about Irving's honesty as a historian, and suggests that Irving's much-touted 'real history' is no more real than that of the Establishment's 'court historians'.<br><br>I found that from google; the source is here: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/NetLoss/Irving/Irving-ExposingIrving.html">www.thebirdman.org/Index/...rving.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>apparently thebirdman.org is a white supremacist sort who's convinced himself that David Irving is a plant of some sort...the rest of the page is 'interesting reading' (I'd just find:levenda myself) but I don't doubt that the birdman actually did ask Irving and get that answer.<br><br>Per the post, this is some additional examples of the 'fringe' folk each fervently hoping their piece is the whole puzzle. It may also be a bit of a lead: I remember another 'revisionist/holocaust denier' (Ernst Zundel) had a ufology connection of sorts, I think through his publisher; there's probably some deep politicking going on (maybe a failed attempt to link ufology with naziism that post-failure got tucked under the rug) if one digs a bit in that sector. If I had to guess, a lot of sincere-hearted revisionists/deniers (use your word of choice, I don't care) in investigating what went on or didn't go on at the camps probably bumped into two threads: black magic (human sacrifice or what have you tied into various occultic beliefs) and ufos (in the guise of some 'secret weapons of the luftwaffe' stuff, which if Nick Cook was to be believed were basically built with slave labor)...<br><br>Time to order me some more reading material; Levenda's blog doesn't show up on google yet but hopefully that'll change. <p></p><i></i>
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re: Interesting .. Levenda's 'Intel. failure' belief

Postby Starman » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:22 pm

Yah -- I noticed that and thought it odd, as of course the 'Intelligence Failure' explanation has gotta be the all-time hands-down biggest and flimsiest and wackiest conspiracy theory about 911 going...<br><br>On that track, I couldn't 'get' why he'd claim that 'the terrorists' were the only ones to learn anything from the CIA's extensive mind-control research/experiments -- unless he was obviously making a mockingly-cynical point for dramatic flair. There are abundant credible official citations referring to the Military/Pentagon's ongoing and long-range interests in Psychological Warfare technology, that clearly have direct implications for techniques and processes discovered and developed as part of MK-Ultra et al. etc., esp. recent discussions about security 'mind-reading' technology to pry-into the minds of would-be terrorists. Given that the CIA has been shown, over-and-over-and-over again to be veracity-challenged (to put it mildly!!!), I don't have good reason to believe Helm's claim that MK-Ultra associated mind-control records were destroyed. Since much of what was learned was disseminated among cadres of scientists and researchers around the nation and Canada and probably in GB and who knows where else, some 'lessons' would likely have commercial value on Madison Ave and Wall Street, and operational value for manipulating public opinions via White House, mass-media and with the Pentagon and various NSA/Intelligence services.<br><br>And another, more nit-crit: Levenda 'qualifies' the Gitmo accounts of Quran-bashing as 'unproven' -- I wonder how he can be uninformed of the many accounts by released Gitmo and Iraq-prison-complex detainees, and statements by Human Rights organizations and other social justice advocates detailing that insulting and destroying the Quran was a standard practice to demolish a detainee's reality-paradigm and undermine their faith. Personally, I think it's silly to attach super-Godlike qualities to an object like a book, even the Bible or Quran, but that's not really the point which is what OTHER people believe. Given the abuses and torture that were essentially authorized from up the chain of command to at least Rummy and Miller, Quran-bashing is hardly the most controversial action troops have been implicated in.<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Set the conditions

Postby antiaristo » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:41 pm

Jeff,<br><br>“What the occult Orders have done, however, deliberately or not, is provide these individuals...with the philosophical basis for their actions; in many cases, providing them with the ritual tools, jargon and psychological conditioning necessary not only to perpetuate their crimes, but to scare the living daylights out of the rest of the population.”<br><br>Where have we heard that before?<br>Geoffrey Miller, transferred from Gitmo to Abu Ghraib.<br><br>“Set the conditions…..”<br><br>My own experiences have been that they “set the conditions” in the English legal system with the designation Queens Counsel.<br><br>Glub,<br><br>Trevor Ravenscroft wrote in the introduction to The Spear of Destiny, about how the author should have been Dr Walter Johannes Stein. About how he had to apply a great deal of Pressure to get Dr Stein to speak. About how Sir Winston Churchill was adamant that the occult practices of the Nazi Party must never be revealed to the masses under any circumstances. I guess Irving is under the same stricture today.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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the species wide intel failure

Postby human » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:49 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"This is a book about evil. Evil ordinary and extraordinary. Evil vigilant. Evil militant. Evil triumphant. Evil anciet and modern, violent and discrete, beautiful and obscene. Evil in the face of God, of men and women, of children. The evil of vainglorius men and their hollow minions. Evil unseen and fierce. The evil of bodybags and spent cartridges. Of mass graves and crematoria. Of crimes against nature and against heaven. The evil death and derangement, of murder and madness, of suicide and satanism. This is the evil we can't grasp, cannot punish, cannot destroy. The evil that contaminates souls as well as bodies, nations as well as people. This is a book about the evil spirits that haunt America. About the sinister forces that rule the world of our dreams, our nightmares, and our sober trembling, waking reality".</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>sounds evil! lol.<br><br>sinister forces dont rule my world, but i hear where hes coming from...<br><br>is it possible that the SECRET of SECRETS is that nobody is in control? at all?<br><br>pure chaos! <br><br>a mystery wrapped in enigma.... a wonderfull multiverse ready to be explored by us! <br><br>i think the "evil", dark forces, are a projection of our own collective & individual darkness, forcing us to learn ... aka step up our game... <br><br>which includes cross polinating ideas as per todays blog post... <br><br>realizing, that as wrong as Levenda's "Intel Failure" theory may be factually, essentially the idea of "Intelligence Failure" is really whats gone wrong.. on big giant failure of the human race to use their intelligence.... lol. <br><br>plus, the pyramid need to know structure of the CIA etc, makes it so in general, 9/11 was actually an intelligence failure, being that MOST CIA etc. had nothing to do with it... and failed to pick up on it... <br><br><br>what 9/11 was IMO, was a ritual. it wasnt politics (although it was), it wasnt imperialism (although it is)....it was clearly a occult ritual first & foremost...<br><br>so i dont know where any of that puts me, but the book looks interesting, just perhaps a bit dark... i might read the Nazi occult one first...<br><br>one<br>human?<br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Levenda

Postby rain » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:43 am

' Ladies and gentlemen, there is spin ... and there is "spin".'<br>sorry guys, and I'll admit all I've read so far is what's here and a substantial part of his blog, but it affects me as cornflakes for wingnuts. but, there is something else, in the tone and the tempo perhaps, - rock-a-bye, don't you cry, just go back to nigh-nigh. good, old-fashioned snake-charming. nevertheless, do sallie forth, and, speaking of animal tricks, I am interested in what he has to say regarding 'the nine'. 'proof being in the pudding', as they say.<br>one article re:Zundel can be found here -<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.rense.com/general52/dewi.htm">www.rense.com/general52/dewi.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>although I tend to view 'dignidad' as just one bead on a string.<br>and 'curiously' this was recently posted -<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.rense.com/ufo/hova.htm">www.rense.com/ufo/hova.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>but keeping with a 'sciencey' gist some might like to wrestle with a few considerations in contemporary herd management -<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001210">philsci-archive.pitt.edu/...e/00001210</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>and more toward the heart of (the) matter - 'Thule - is that all there is' aka 'assuming the ostrich position aint gonna make it go away' -<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001643">philsci-archive.pitt.edu/...e/00001643</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://cogprints.org/3065/">cogprints.org/3065/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the species wide intel failure

Postby gwbushmalecheerleader » Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:49 am

"9/11 was actually an intelligence failure, being that MOST CIA etc. had nothing to do with it... and failed to pick up on it..."<br><br>Bingo.<br><br>But I think they know now.<br><br>Hence Goss' appointment.<br><br>Resignations and retirements.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Quoth the raven "What, me worry?"

Postby Ferry Fey » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:44 am

Qutb's link to Levenda's blog brings up a horror of a quote, one of many horrific revelations in this recent article.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>When asked whether he, as the FBI's former counterterrorism chief, could describe the differences between Shiite and Sunni Muslims, Watson answered, "Not technically, no." <br><br>He also said that his assertion a few years ago that bin Laden had been killed — a declaration that conflicted with CIA assessments and fresh video evidence — was not based on fact. "It's my gut instinct," he answered.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050619/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/fbi_terror_jobs;_ylt=ApQq_Ns3hsvbqW5Qm3MN6jlI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHN">news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050...W04NW9mBHN</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Despite our concerns about the involvement of pure evil being involved, the other side of Hanlon's Razor is not much more comfort.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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snake charmers

Postby laura jane » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:45 pm

i agree with rain. i am immediately wary of such lilting cadence. tolkien and others have commented on the power of verbal spell-casting and this seems like a prime (if cheesy) example.<br><br>i'm not saying this guy isn't presenting some good info, just that i'd take it with a grain of salt.<br><br>all this talk of evil, evil, evil... !! the author is creating a very glitzy and theatrical gateway for the reader. almost seems like he's trying to frighten us, or to mesmerize at least. personally, i've found that the forces of good are as accessible and apparent as their sinister counterparts in this universe. <br><br>i'm skeptical of something that reads like the opening paragraph of a campfire ghost story.<br><br>admittedly i have not read his books, i'm just articulating my gut reaction.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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levenda

Postby albion » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:09 pm

i too am put off by the 'dramatized evil' aesthetic. it strikes me as ultimately disempowering and defeatist. <p></p><i></i>
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Sinister Forces

Postby Levenda » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:07 am

Just a few words about some of the comments on this site about my latest book, Sinister Forces.<br><br>One of the problems with this subject matter is that one tends to preach to the already converted. A goal of Sinister Forces is to make the world of "conspiracy theory" a bit more accessible to the rest of the world, and to do that one has to approach the same material from a different angle. "Evil" is something everyone thinks they understand. Actually, it is sometimes quite difficult to differentiate evil and the divine: one can be filled with a sense of terror when confronting either one. Some of our best philosophers have realized this. <br><br>For me, evil was very clear when I wandered into Colonia Dignidad more than 25 years ago and almost didn't wander out; it was also there when I traveled to Himmler's castle at Wewelsburg and saw the site where a concentration camp had been erected to provide slave labor for the castle's renovation. <br><br>Of course, forces for good exist in the world and they are just as strong (if you are a Manichaean!) or stronger (if you are a Judeao-Christian!) as evil. But complacency about who will win the war between them is dangerous, to my mind. It requires vigilance, and knowledge, and wisdom. <br><br>The novelistic opening of Sinister Forces was deliberate, then. I wanted to set the stage, and to attract a new audience; I wanted to show that evil groups of people doing evil things is not only the province of horror films and thrillers, but of the real world of secret societies and religious fanaticism.<br><br>It was incredible what I discovered among the documentation alone. When added to personal interviews and investigations the incredible became the inexplicable. The value of Sinister Forces, I hope, is that it helps the occult people talk to the political conspiracy people. Normally, these two groups exist in different worlds; Sinister Forces shows that these two worlds frequently overlap, and when they do strange things happen that command attention ... and disbelief!<br><br>As for my theories about 9/11, I think I made it clear when I referenced the "Reichstag Fire" aspect on the blog. I do not believe that 9/11 was simply an intelligence failure, and when you read Sinister Forces I think you will understand what I mean. The introduction to Book Two will discuss the present situation in Iraq as a war between two secret societies. Stay tuned.<br><br>Also, I don't believe that terrorists were the only ones who learned anything about mind-control; obviously, Sinister Forces is about MK-ULTRA, Bluebird, etc. and covers that material in some detail with some surprising revelations about the origin of Bluebird. What I do believe is that the "terrorists" are showing how well they have understood the lessons of psychological warfare and mind-control, and that we are losing this aspect of the battle every time another revelation comes out of Gitmo. <br><br>And the Quran thing was "unproven" at the time I wrote the blog entry; it has since been proven, of course. I was merely being cautious!<br><br>Anyway, many thanks for all of your comments! They are perceptive and stimulating. I hope you enjoy the book(s) and I look forward to your criticisms. <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Sinister Forces

Postby professorpan » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:29 am

It's great to see you here, Peter. <br><br>I had no problems with the novelistic tone of the book. In fact, I enjoyed it very much. Much conspiracy writing is dull, overly jammed with names and facts, and completely bewildering to a novice. The tone you took with your book was very effective.<br><br>I really enjoyed the BLUEBIRD background material. That, alone, was worth the price of the book for me. And the work you've done tying the threads of the Manson murders together is very impressive.<br><br>And I very much look forward to the next installment. I hope you'll drop by here once in a while and share some of your insights. <p></p><i></i>
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