Cryptome founder:"Wikileaks is a fraud"

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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby compared2what? » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:26 am

Bye, everybody! Love you! Bye!

Alice, I'm going to write you a PM attesting to my unswerving affection and respect for you presently!

But I felt that it couldn't hurt to shout them out in public, too! Partly in light of Ben D's post just replied to by me! And partly because I was already aware that some of what I wrote to you along those lines would probably read as insincere, given that we disagree on this one much as we agree on other points!

Which is to say, in a word, passionately!

Mad props to you and to all.
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby Ben D » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:08 am

And it's mutual C2W,

1. Check
2. Agreed
3. :D

Thank you, I really do appreciate the wisdom involved in the idea of debate as a means of learning. I was inspired by Alice's contribution also, and hope that at the end of the day when this Assange/Wikileaks drama has run its course, there is a better understanding all-round. Beyond that to the larger scheme of things, hopefully even a shedding of light on what I see as a very dark shadow currently obscuring the natural goodness that is inherent in the hearts of humanity.

And see you again soon I hope...Benji :thumbsup
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby lupercal » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:25 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:As you say, neither you nor I know for a fact whether all this is a show or not. All we can do is notice that Assange's treatment as the maverick star of a media circus simply does not fit the usual pattern of how whistle-blowers and other inconvenient people are treated, who are usually quietly kidnapped or suicided or have strange car or plane or home accidents under cover of media silence or terse media coverage. David Kelly, Gary Webb, Mordecai Vanunu and of course, William Colby come to mind. Neither do the charges against him fit the usual pattern of spurious associations with "al-Qaeda" or other "terrorist" groups or other accusations that specifically target his ideological motives and Wikileaks' credibility. None of this is conclusive in any way, but it's one among other factors that are worth keeping in mind.

I think this is an especially telling point. Notice that the real patsies like Manning and various manque-bombers from previous episodes of FakeLand languish incommunicado in a Virginia dungeon, while wiki-boy gets to frolick on a gigantic 600-acre mansion-estate in the English countryside supposedly owned by a RW billionaire spook (make that "libertarian") "former Grenadier Guard":

House arrest on an estate so big his tag may not work
By Cahal Milmo and Mark Hughes, Friday, 17 December 2010

Image
Ellingham Hall, set in 600 acres on the Suffolk-Norfolk border, is the bail address of Julian Assange, who must report daily to police in the market town of Beccles

Whereas the WikiLeaks founder could barely stretch his 6ft 2in frame across the billet in solitary confinement once occupied by Oscar Wilde, his quarters in the 10-bedroom Ellingham Hall and its 600 acres of countryside on the Suffolk-Norfolk border is so vast that he will have to restrict himself to the elegant Georgian house and its immediate surroundings – for fear of setting off his security tag.

The 39-year-old Australian will be the subject of an atypical form of house arrest. Ellingham Hall, close to the village of Bungay, is the ancestral home of Captain Vaughan Smith, the former British Army officer and journalist who is a key supporter of the WikiLeaks editor-in-chief.

It has emerged that while journalists and, presumably the US government, sought to establish Mr Assange's whereabouts as WikiLeaks began to publish diplomatic cables two weeks ago, he had been at the Frontline Club, the central London haunt for reporters, which is owned by Captain Smith.

What a coinky, the rich "libertarian" Cap'n Smith just happens to also own a "central London haunt for reporters," nothing spooky there, nopity!

The entrepreneur said his well-appointed home and surrounding land offered several advantages as a bail address for the poster boy of libertarians around the world, not least the fact that its splendid isolation makes it more difficult for those threatening Mr Assange's wellbeing from getting too close.

Captain Smith, who apologised in advance to villagers for the inevitable phalanx of satellite vans and photographers that will now descend on Bungay, said: "It does offer a place where Julian might have some peace and security."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 62641.html

It's nice to have "libertarian" friends in the "security" business, isn't it? Now does anyone in their right noodle still think a shred of this bullshit is for reals, just a lucky fairy tale dream come true for a boy who only wanted to make the world a better place? Still??

Image

p.s. Assange's fellow Wandsworth denizen Oscar Wilde, who was considerably more talented but less "lucky," also wrote better comedies than this one.
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby lupercal » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:33 am

p.s. and then there's this:
Assange was informed he had a ''good internet connection'' to work with at the 10-bedroom residence owned by independent journalism campaigner and supporter Vaughan Smith.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/more-to- ... 190ri.html

Just in case any inconvenient diplomats haven't gotten the message and need a little last-minute holiday blackmail.
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby guruilla » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:15 am

whose a fraud? the hair is real enuff isnt it?!

what do the wolf and the barracuda want - to say i told u so when the dust has settled?

WHAT IF IT NEVER SETTLES?

ARG:you all you want, round and round we go. the wolf doesnt know itz not tyed to the poll, and that the ties that bind are in itz mind
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:42 am

I don't think there really is a "told you so" moment in this for those of us who hope WikiLeaks is a force for usable data points here, guruilla. There will always be the possibility that they've been infiltrated, or played, or betrayed, or, really, that they've been playing us all along. That's the nature of politics, and of information itself. It's a malleable object, subject to pressure from ideology and perspective and spin, even at times of great certainty. For us, there will always be doubt to contend with. But as far as the hope that the forces WikiLeaks has ostensibly aligned itself against - oppression, empire, suppression, fear, and war - will diminish in power from our lives, well, I could have told you so a long time ago.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby guruilla » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:56 pm

was reefering more to the is-he/isnt he backnforth: albino/operative/realdeal, point-finger/counterpoint-finger thing - like we still live in an either-or univorous; (i dont anyway tho i still have a prefrence for cheeze not anchovies on my pizza). oppression and all that stuff u dont like resultz IMHO from thinking we know stuff when we dont - and from the buzzyiness of peeple who think they have a "re-spawns-ability" to put into action what they "know." Pleeze. (This may in-clued Mr. Ass-ange) \<]

"I really think that living is the process of going from complete certainty to complete ignorance." - that guy who made a potato mountain in CE3k

Image

i am certain of this! :scaredblue:
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby elfismiles » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:17 pm

Towards the countering of the "wikileaks is promoting war with Iran" nonsense.

EDIT: and by nonsense I don't mean healthy skepticism, I mean the rush to judgement.


Cables Belie Gulf States' Backing for Strikes on Iran
By Gareth Porter and Jim Lobe*


WASHINGTON, Dec 6, 2010 (IPS) - The dominant theme that emerged in U.S. media coverage of the first round of Wikileaks diplomatic cables last week was that Arab regimes in the Gulf - led by Saudi Arabia - shared Israel's view that Iran's nuclear programme had to be stopped by military force, if necessary.

The New York Times generated that narrative with a front- page story featuring an alleged quote by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia urging the United States to "cut off the head of the snake", as well as other statements by Gulf Arab leaders suggesting support for military action.

"The cables reveal how Iran's ascent has unified Israel and many longtime Arab adversaries -notably the Saudis - in a common cause," the Times asserted.

The notion that these leaders, like Israel, favour a military solution to Iran's nuclear programme has become widely accepted by the news media in the past week. In a curtain-raiser to this week's talks in Geneva between Iran and the world's most powerful nations, for example, the Washington Post Monday asserted that the Wikileaks disclosure "show[ed] that Persian Gulf leaders have pressed for a military attack on Iran's nuclear facilities…"

But a careful reading of all the diplomatic cables reporting the views of Saudi and other Gulf Arab regimes on Iran shows that the Times' account seriously distorted the content - and in the case of the Saudis, ignored the context - of the cables released by Wikileaks.

The original Times story, headlined "From Arabs and Israelis, Sharp Distress Over a Nuclear Iran", referred to "a largely silent front of Arab states whose position on sanctions and force looked much like the Israelis".

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his U.S. neo- conservative backers immediately seized on the story as confirmation of what Israel has been saying all along.

In fact, the cables show that most Gulf Arab regimes - including Saudi Arabia itself - have been seriously concerned about the consequences of a strike against Iran for their own security, in sharp contrast to Israel's open advocacy of such a strike. They also show the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Kuwait expressing that concern with greater urgency in the past two years than previously.

Those facts were completely ignored, however, in the Times' account.

The Abdullah Quote

The most widely cited quote in support of the Times' thesis since the story's publication one week ago has been Abdullah's appeals to "cut off the head of the snake", referring to Iran. The story asserted that the Saudi ambassador in Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, had recalled the king's "frequent exhortations to the U.S. to attack Iran" during an April 2008 meeting with Gen. David Petraeus, the incoming chief of the U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM).

The implication was that al-Jubeir had made that statement during the Petraeus-Abdullah meeting. But the reporting cable makes clear that the Saudi ambassador made the remark two days later, in a conversation with the U.S. Deputy Chief of Mission in Riyadh, Michael Gfoeller.

In his meeting with Petraeus, in fact, Abdullah had not spoken about Iran's nuclear programme but focused instead on the importance of "resisting and rolling back Iranian influence and subversion in Iraq", according to the cable.

The cable actually draws a contrast between al-Jubeir's remarks and those made by Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal and director general of intelligence Prince Muqrin during Petraeus's visit. "On the other hand," it states after citing al-Jubeir's position, the foreign minister "called instead for much more severe U.S. and international sanctions on Iran, including a travel ban and further restrictions on bank lending." Prince Muqrin "echoed these views", according to the cable.

The foreign minister would only say that "the use of military pressure against Iran should not be ruled out," the cable said.

That statement mirrored precisely the official position of the George W. Bush administration at the time.

Even if Abdullah had in fact offered explicit support for a military attack against Iran in the meeting with Petraeus, however, that would not be a reliable indicator of Saudi policy toward the issue, according to Chas Freeman, a veteran diplomat who served as Washington's ambassador to Saudi Arabia from 1989 to 1992 and maintains contact with top Saudi officials.

Freeman told IPS that such a statement would "fit a pattern of communication with the United States of ingratiating themselves with their protector".

Significantly, in that respect, the Abdullah-Petraeus meeting came three months after President Bush had visited Riyadh seeking support for a more confrontational stance against Iran; five weeks after Petraeus's predecessor at CENTCOM, Adm. William Fallon, had been fired in part for public statements that there would be no war against Iran; and less than a month after Vice President Dick Cheney had reportedly sought support for military action during his own visit to the kingdom.

Thomas Lippman, former Washington Post Middle East bureau chief and an adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute, who has written a book on Saudi-U.S. relations, also said that the Abdullah quote would have been in line with the usual Saudi pattern of "telling the Americans what they wanted to hear".

"They wanted to be assured that they would be under the protection of the U.S.," Lippman told IPS.

In fact, the cables covering the period since President Barack Obama took office suggest that Saudi views have given even greater emphasis to political and economic strategies in dealing with Iran than was the case in 2008.

A Feb. 10, 2010 cable from Riyadh, for example, reported that Abdullah, disillusioned with U.S. blunders in Iraq that have given Iran the upper hand there, "had concluded that he needs to proceed with his strategy to counter Iranian influence in the region".

The new Saudi strategy, according to the cable, features promoting reconciliation between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority combined with expanding relations with Russia, China and India to create "diplomatic and economic pressure[s] on Iran that do not directly depend on U.S. help".

UAE Worries About a "Preemptive Strike"

As for the UAE, the Times' account of the cables suggested an evolution in its thinking from earlier warnings that a U.S. or Israeli military strike would be "catastrophic" to a far more hawkish position. In February 2007, a cable quotes Mohammed bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, as saying that the Iranian nuclear programme "must be stopped by all means available".

That exhortation, however, was put in a different context by the diplomat who reported on his conversation with bin Zayed, who also serves as deputy supreme commander of the UAE armed forces.

The diplomat noted that such "tough talk on Iran" should be "taken in the context of strong UAE interest in acquiring advanced military technology". Indeed, the UAE at the time was negotiating agreements to buy a record $17 billion in U.S. arms over the next several years.

Despite bin Zayed's bluster, the U.S. diplomat wrote in the Feb. 7, 2007 cable, the UAE "is clearly nervous about any U.S. actions that could upset their much larger and militarily superior neighbor".

Indeed, two years later, the crown prince told visiting U.S. special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke that a "military solution would only delay [Iran's nuclear] program, not derail it" and that "war with Iran would only harm the UAE". He also said he was "deeply concerned" over a possible Israeli military strike which, he added, "would have little impact on Iran's capabilities," according to an Apr. 5, 2009 cable.

He repeated his concerns about an Israeli attack to other high-ranking U.S. visitors three months later. After a Jul. 15 meeting between bin Zayed and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, the embassy reported, "Without timely and decisive action by the United States, MbZ believes Israel will strike Iran, causing Iran to launch missile attacks - including hits on the UAE - and to unleash terror attacks worldwide." He then suggested that "the key to containing Iran revolves around progress in the Israel/Palestine issue."

According to a Jul. 23, 2009 cable, the prince subsequently declared to visiting senior State Department officials that "[Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad is Hitler" – a remark highlighted in the Times' account that has also gained widespread media attention.

But the cable reported further expressions of alarm over the prospect and possible consequences of an Israeli pre-emptive strike. The prince called for Washington to immediately begin "joint planning" with the UAE to address such a "worst-case scenario".

Most recently, a Feb. 22, 2010 cable has the UAE's foreign minister, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nayan, warning a visiting delegation headed by Rep. Nita Lowey, a strong supporter of Israel in Congress, that any "crisis or confrontation in the region [over Iran's nuclear programme] would create oil supply problems world wide."

According to the cable, the minister ended the meeting with a "soliloquy on the importance of a successful peace process between Israel and its neighbors as perhaps the best way of reducing Iran's regional influence."

"Iran Has Not Bothered Us"

While confirming growing Arab fears about Iran's regional clout and nuclear ambitions, the cables suggest that other Gulf Arab leaders - with the possible exception of Bahrain's King Hamad, the only regional leader with a majority Shi'a population - have little or no appetite for military action against Iran.

"A year or two ago, many in Kuwait hoped a silent, targeted strike would take out the troublesome reactor and leave the region more relaxed," a cable quotes a senior foreign ministry official who also happens to be the son of Kuwait's prime minister as recalling to his U.S. interlocutor last February.

"Now, however, they feared that any effort to disrupt the nuclear program, either military or through tough sanctions 'would go badly for the West,'" according to the cable, which quotes another official as saying that, while the emirate was worried about Iran's nuclear programme, it was "equally concerned about military preemption" and the retaliation that was likely to follow.

Qatar, meanwhile, is unwilling to "provoke a fight" with Iran, according to the emir of Qatar, as reported in a February 2010 cable on a meeting between the emir and Senator John Kerry. The emir explained that Doha would not "provoke a fight" with Iran, because its primary interest was a natural-gas field it shared with Tehran. He added that Iran "has not bothered us" during the history of relations between the two states.

A Feb. 2, 2010 cable makes it clear that the sultan of Oman, who has given the U.S. access to three military bases on its territory, is determined to maintain balance between Washington and Tehran. The cable reported that Muscat had twice rejected official U.S. offers to include it in a collective missile defence system aimed at Iran in 2009.

As for Bahrain, the Gulf's only Shi'a-majority sheikhdom and host of the U.S. 5th Fleet, the Times quoted a November 2009 cable in which King Hamad al-Khalifa declares that Iran's nuclear "programme must be stopped" and warns that "[t]he danger of letting it go on is greater than the danger of stopping it."

No other cable from Manama elaborates, however, on what means the U.S. or other countries should use to halt the programme.

*Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist specialising in U.S. national security policy. The paperback edition of his latest book, "Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam", was published in 2006. Jim Lobe's blog on U.S. foreign policy can be read at http://www.lobelog.com.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=53790

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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:27 pm

guruilla wrote: oppression and all that stuff u dont like resultz IMHO from thinking we know stuff when we dont - and from the buzzyiness of peeple who think they have a "re-spawns-ability" to put into action what they "know." Pleeze.


I thot O'Press-shun rezulted from "see-zing" powerz buy eny meanz avail-able, and You-zing that POW-er to force peepal to bend to your will a-GAIN-st their wish-es. There are sum responds-abilities "Cher'd" by all of US.

Image

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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby Simulist » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:30 pm

My head hurtz.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:48 pm

compared2what? wrote:Bye, everybody! Love you! Bye!

Alice, I'm going to write you a PM attesting to my unswerving affection and respect for you presently!

But I felt that it couldn't hurt to shout them out in public, too! Partly in light of Ben D's post just replied to by me! And partly because I was already aware that some of what I wrote to you along those lines would probably read as insincere, given that we disagree on this one much as we agree on other points!

Which is to say, in a word, passionately!

Mad props to you and to all.



mad props to you, c2w. hope to see you again soon.

take care.

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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby nathan28 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:50 pm

elfismiles wrote:Towards the countering of the "wikileaks is promoting war with Iran" nonsense.

EDIT: and by nonsense I don't mean healthy skepticism, I mean the rush to judgement.



AweN aye re-Late-edited gNo-eTic-EYEz teh DockYouMeant aye-Bout teh Eye-Ranianz Cher'ing teh Oy-eLz with eh Eye-Rackees AynD teh CHev-[el]Ron:

http://213.251.145.96/cable/2009/03/09BAGHDAD791.html

¶11. (S) Sadiq Rikabi, political advisor to the PM, asked the PM to inquire about the USG’s position on direct contracts with international oil companies. The PM noted that he is in favor of direct contracts, in order to avoid the delays inherent in a bidding process. The PM said he is currently in negotiations with Chevron to develop various oil fields, to include a cross-border oil field with Iran (NFI). The PM claimed that Chevron had told him that it had already raised the issue of a cross-border development with Tehran as well. (Note: We have no independent confirmation of this; end note.[reed az: wee R M-BareAssed aye-Bout R ig-Kno-Rants --mee]) The PM asked the CDA about the political feasibility of such a deal involving a U.S. firm working both sides of a cross-border field, given current USG policies toward Iran. The CDA noted that U.S. law on sanctions would apply, but added that the Administration was reviewing its policies on Iran. PM al-Maliki said that he prefers to go with Chevron on the deal; however, he remarked that if U.S. rules prevent Chevron from doing this project, he would approach a non-American firm.


aweN E.D.-It, anOther KayBell 2 gno-Tizz:

http://213.251.145.96/cable/2009/04/09BAGHDAD1104.html

¶5. (S) Dynamics other than the U.S. military drawdown will
affect Iranian influence in Iraq in coming years. Iraqis
will continue to accept legitimate Iranian investment
and buy
Iranian electricity and manufactured goods as Iraqi domestic
production struggles to rebuild. Iranian agricultural produce
will continue to fill Iraqi markets as Iraqi farmers recover
from conflict, neglect, and a drought that has limited
production. The number of Iranian pilgrims and tourists,
already in the hundreds of thousands annually, will increase
with improvements in Iraqi security and tourism
infrastructure.
As the Iraqi-Iranian bilateral relationship
matures with its positive advances and disputes, the

BAGHDAD 00001104 002 OF 003


governments will seek to deepen their cooperation on issues
such as de-mining, petroleum development and border security,
although disagreements over border demarcation and water
rights will continue to cause friction (ref G).

¶6. (S) Just as Iraq will try to strengthen relations with
its Arab neighbors and Turkey to balance Iranian influence,
Iran will maintain regional influence through relations with
Syria and domestic influence in Iraq through its TV
broadcasts into Iraq and relations with Shia political
parties, the Kurds, and in fact any Iraqis who will have
them.


C? WhYen U reed teh KayBellz 4 y-Ourselfz U can teh do teh lern-En-ingz ov y-Our AweNz!!




Last edited by nathan28 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:55 pm

TerryOyland
17 December 2010 2:13PM
A lot of Angry Men....

Senator Joe: You want answers?

Assange: I think I'm entitled to them

Senator Joe: You want answers?

Assange: I want the truth

Senator Joe Lieberman: You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? The bloody indebted students? I have a greater responsibility than I let you possibly fathom. You weep for the innocent dead in Iraq and Afghanistan. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of logic and not knowing what I know: that thousands of dead people saved lives. And my existence, while completely self serving and without logic, saves imaginary lives. You don't want my truth, because deep down, in places where arrogant men scoff at the little people, you want me on that wall. You aren't strong enough to say I'm not needed on that wall.

We use words like Un-american, and espionage, and phrases like blood-on-your hands and the-battle-for-hearts-and-minds... we use these words as a backbone to a life spent defending words that mean nothing. You use logic and wit as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to anyone who votes in a government and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I shit all over, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just shut the hell up and did what we tell you to. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and obey my orders. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Assange: Did you stand by while war crimes were committed?

Senator Joe: You're goddam right.....

etc etc..

[from the comments here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/co ... nk/8849919 ]

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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby Elvis » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:25 pm

barracuda wrote:For us, there will always be doubt to contend with.

Alas, not for some.

Gareth Porter and Jim Lobe wrote:But a careful reading of all the diplomatic cables reporting the views of Saudi and other Gulf Arab regimes on Iran shows that the Times' account seriously distorted the content - and in the case of the Saudis, ignored the context - of the cables released by Wikileaks.

Thanks for that article, elfismiles. It's a perfect example of why we should avoid leaping to pat conclusions.

Simulist wrote:My head hurtz.

That happens when banging one's head against the brick wall of a closed mind. Kudos for chipping away, though!
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: Cryptome founder/Wikileaks co-founder:"Wikileaks is a fr

Postby Simulist » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:40 pm

Thanks, Elvis. You may have a point there.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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