Giffords shooting

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Plutonia » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:49 pm

I guess this hasn't been pointed out yet, vis a vis the Palin connection:

Palin Pallin' Around with Scientologists: Todd & Sarah & John & Greta

Geoffrey Dunn

March 21, 2009

There is something absolutely bizarre and troubling going on in the political netherworld of Sarah and Todd Palin, Greta Van Susteren and her wannabe-queen-maker hubby, John Coale.

At best, it's a clear case of journalistic conflict-of-interest on behalf of Van Susteren; at worst, it's a sleazy, national power play by a couple of practitioners of Scientology--the controversial cult that Time magazine described as "a hugely profitable global racket that survives by intimidating members and critics in a Mafia-like manner."

Let's start with the easy stuff: Van Susteren is a flat-out hypocrite and a con artist. Quote me. Ever since Palin was first selected as John McCain's running mate last August, Van Susteren--she of the rather severe face lift and right-wing tilt--has been utterly infatuated with the Palins (especially with Todd) and has enjoyed unequaled access to the Last Frontier's first couple and their family.
[img]2009-03-22-ToddPalinedited.JPG[/img]

There's been the interviews in the kitchen with Sarah, the fawning (if not embarrassing) tête-à-tête with the "First Dude" overlooking Lake Lucille, the softball conversation with Sarah after the GOP's defeat in November, and, most recently, the controversial interview with 18-year-old Bristol Palin and her infant son, Tripp.

While there's something ironic about Alaska's most famous evangelical Christians pallin' around with a couple who believes that 75 million years ago an entity named Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling DC-8 airliners, it's all been good for Van Susteren's ratings. It's also expanded her television profile from the narrow confines of legal journalism to broader national political commentary. She's ridden Palin's conservative steed into an entirely new level of public exposure.

Van Susteren first used her Fox blog to protect Palin after CNN--with whom Van Susteren had a less-than-friendly break-up in 2002--named her to its year-end list of "politicians who fell from grace in 2008." That particular all-star team included Eliot Spitzer, John Edwards and Rod Blagojevich. Van Susteren protested, and CNN quietly (and gutlessly) removed Palin from the list.

"Why didn't CNN PUBLICLY apologize for this one?" Van Susteren blogged. "They sure unfairly trashed her publicly on that list."


*snip*



Also this teabagger:
Sharron Angle Appeared In Scientology Prisoner Rehabilitation Video
Sharron Angle, whose come-from-behind victory in the Nevada Republican primary has catapulted the the Tea Party candidate into the national spotlight, immediately came under fire for her controversial views.

And now a new video showing Angle offering her support for a controversial inmate rehabilitation program administered by the Church of Scientology has come to light.

This is not the first time that Angle has been attacked for her ties to the Second Chance program, which is a detoxification and rehabilitation program for drug-addicted prisoners. She proposed a bill, which was defeated, to implement the program in the Nevada prison system in 2003. Last month, her primary opponent, Sue Lowden, attacked her over the proposal, which a Lowden campaign ad implied would pamper prisoners.

*snip*


This one Floated '2nd Amendment Remedies' As 'Cure':

Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who's in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical...

Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.

Angle: Well it's to defend ourselves. And you know, I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby pepsified thinker » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:30 am

THis is from Gawker--but interesting first person account of the shooting:

http://gawker.com/5728501/


A gunman shot U.S. congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords during an event outside a Safeway in Tucson Arizona this morning. At least 12 others were wounded. Following is an eyewitness report from a man who helped hold the suspect down.

Giffords is currently in critical condition at University Medical Center after being shot once in the head. At a press conference, her doctor said she is out of surgery and he is "optimistic" about her prospects for recovery. (Early reports said Giffords had died.)

We spoke to an eyewitness, Steven Rayle, who was on the scene at the time of the shooting and helped to hold the suspect down while waiting for police. Here's what he said:

The event was very informal: Giffords had set up a table outside the Safeway and about 20-30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman, who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Giffords in the head first, "point blank". According to Rayle, who is a former ER doctor, Giffords was able to move her hands after being shot.

After shooting Giffords, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a few seconds, firing 20-30 rounds and hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than 10 years old. Rayle hid behind a concrete pole and pretended to be dead. When the gunman apparently ran out of ammunition he attempted to flee, but a member of Giffords' staff tackled him. Rayle helped hold the gunman down while waiting for the sheriff to arrive, about 15-to-20 minutes later. The EMS came about 30 minutes later. Rayle said he was "stunned" by how long it took medical help to arrive.

The gunman was young, mid-to-late 20s, white, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down, although he struggled at first. He was "not particularly well-dressed"; he didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," Rayle said. The sheriff's department arrived, arrested the gunman and cordoned off the parking lot.



BUT MORE INTERESTING--???

Tuscon Citizen is quoted by Huffington Post as saying that a second person had been arrested

3:55 PM ET 2nd Person Arrested?
Tucson Citizen:

"Police arrest man near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others. A third man is being sought."


THis is the link attached to 'Tucson Citizen' in the Huffpo bit: http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/389


But when I went to the Tuscon Citizen piece, there's nothing there about this arrest--I searched for 'Thorhydale and Magee Roads' in the article and there's no responses/matches. I searched on google and there are a bunch of places that have that quote--the one Huffpo has--but I didn't see anything for the Tuscon Citizen.

Gotta say I haven't spent a lot of time double checking yet, or looking down the list of google results, so maybe I missed something, but seems like the Tuscon Citizen story used to say something but now it doesn't. :shock:
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:33 am

Luther Blissett wrote:It must be so difficult for fringe-right websites to reconcile their conspiracy theories with their views as they communicate them to people like Loughner.


Just look at the way the spotlight has been put on the "tea party" phenomenon. I miss when anti government meant you were against the Bush appointed wars and abuse of power.
Now "anti government" means inciting hatespeech and crypto-violent statements directed at women service providers, democratic politicians, etc.
The Tiller shooting, the Holocaust museum, the killing of those 4 cops by that anti government guy in Pittsburgh, the guy who flew a plane into an IRS building, the guy who attempted to storm the pentagon with a gun...I think it was clear that we'd see a ramping up of these violent actions.

Bottom line, the name of the game is polarizing Americans. The shrinking white middle class who feel threatened and pumped full of hate by racist wonks like rush and inciteful polarization on Fox, the Tea Party rallies, etc.

I fear what this year could bring with the nutcase stuff. I know I've greatly toned down my anti government rhetoric, even tho it came more from a leftist point of view.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:35 am

I personally am sick of these "clear headed" non-partisan kool-kidz around and about the Internet that say we all must wait and see what the motive was as far as this shooter is concerned. Fuck these breezy apologists of fascism. Fuck them. I don't give a fuck how you cut it. I blame the right wing and everything they are and what they have ever been about. Period. Full stop.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby barracuda » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:39 am

More on the other suspect(s) from here:

A 22-year-old suspect was in custody, law enforcement officials said. But at a Saturday evening news conference, investigators said they were looking for an accomplice who may have helped the gunman.
...
At a news conference Saturday evening, Dupnik said there was "some reason to believe" that the suspect in custody did not act alone. Officials said they were seeking a second suspect, a 50-year-old, white male.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:41 am

DoYouEverWonder wrote:
Palin, Limpballs and Beck preach hate 24/7. Then everyone's surprised when some white guy decides to carry out his violent fantasies.

I'm just glad he's not a Muslim.



I think that's what this could simply be. Beck, Rush, Fox, the radio, blogs, etc pump out so much "target the commie liberal scumbag!" propaganda, that it should be no shocker
when someone unhinged commits one of these acts of violence...whether he was pushed over the edge by major financial ruin/divorce/job loss/etc. The Tiller shooting should have been a wakeup
call to the weapon of words and its power by Fox. SO many other good hearted people seemed duped into watching Fox religiously. I know so many people whose parents are just glued to Fox News, but otherwise are decent people. But these can also be the folks that think Obama is a "commie muslim not born in america"
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby vanlose kid » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:48 am

The Consul wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:
DrVolin wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:seems to me he's more john hinckley than a political assassin


???


jodie foster

*


We do know Hinkley's brother was to have dinner with Neil Bush the day after the assasination. We also know that Hinkley's father was GHW Bush's largest campaign contributer. Jodi Foster is on record disputing FBI's version of events.

What we don't know about him is who his controller was. It will be interesting to see how this "second person" an "older man" thread plays out and is most likely erased within 48 hours and shooter is declared despondent schizophrenic who stopped taking his dilantin.


and...

barracuda wrote:More on the other suspect(s) from here:

A 22-year-old suspect was in custody, law enforcement officials said. But at a Saturday evening news conference, investigators said they were looking for an accomplice who may have helped the gunman.
...
At a news conference Saturday evening, Dupnik said there was "some reason to believe" that the suspect in custody did not act alone. Officials said they were seeking a second suspect, a 50-year-old, white male.


handler?

*
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:54 am

82_28 wrote:I personally am sick of these "clear headed" non-partisan kool-kidz around and about the Internet that say we all must wait and see what the motive was as far as this shooter is concerned. Fuck these breezy apologists of fascism. Fuck them. I don't give a fuck how you cut it. I blame the right wing and everything they are and what they have ever been about. Period. Full stop.


FFS The right wing.

Just cos they are calling for this sort of shit.

Bloody hell from the outside yanks go ballistic all the time and shoot people. OK in this case it was a political assassination, by someone who called the US a terrorist nation and had a video of someone burning the flag in his youtube favorites, the only vid. Not exactly right wing talking points.

About the only way you can blame the "right wing" for this is if they manipulated the guy into it, and to do that ... well it wouldn't have been as simple as "hey Palin is right lets shoot the bitch."

At least not on what I have seen up till now.

I'm happy to be proved wrong.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby pepsified thinker » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:57 am

Checked a bit further on the google results and there IS a Tucson Citizen hit for the "Thornydale and Magee Roads"

here's the address for where that Tucson Citizen link goes: http://tucsoncitizen.com --it's just the paper's front page, as far as I can tell. But I did a search of that site and there are 10 items that come up. Top of the list is the bit that Huffpo (etc.) are quoting:

Police at home near Thornydale and Magee roads, man in custody, third suspect being sought. Deputies at scene say arrests are connected to Giffords shooting ...
(note: this is from the search results on the Tuscon Citizen site, not from somewhere else)

But when I clicked on that item here's all that appears on the page it goes to:

Error establishing a database connection


here's the link that for that search item: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/
Again, the front page of the site. Not only not very helpful--but also, if that's what I'm clicking on, why do I get the error message instead of the front page?
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:14 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
82_28 wrote:I personally am sick of these "clear headed" non-partisan kool-kidz around and about the Internet that say we all must wait and see what the motive was as far as this shooter is concerned. Fuck these breezy apologists of fascism. Fuck them. I don't give a fuck how you cut it. I blame the right wing and everything they are and what they have ever been about. Period. Full stop.


FFS The right wing.

Just cos they are calling for this sort of shit.

Bloody hell from the outside yanks go ballistic all the time and shoot people. OK in this case it was a political assassination, by someone who called the US a terrorist nation and had a video of someone burning the flag in his youtube favorites, the only vid. Not exactly right wing talking points.

About the only way you can blame the "right wing" for this is if they manipulated the guy into it, and to do that ... well it wouldn't have been as simple as "hey Palin is right lets shoot the bitch."

At least not on what I have seen up till now.

I'm happy to be proved wrong.


I will never be able to prove you wrong. It's the milieu which the right wing has created, going on for as long as I've been alive. With each and every atrocity they move in ever further into plausible deniability (denial?), the likes of which they accuse "the left" of for having fucked up America with their socialism. Except there wouldn't be no motherfucking "socialism" without their corporatism masquerading as "conservatism" in which fake ass, pretend socialism can become an all of a sudden threat to the "fabric" of America. It's all managed and I hope they're jumping the motherfucking shark. Yet, as they do jump this shark, they're gonna copy shit like this in order to emit the perception that shit is coming apart, not due to them, but because, well, SHIT'S JUST GETTIN CRAYZEEER AND CRAYZEER!!!!1! They're creating the scapegoat of the 21st century or the fourth reich as we speak.

While everything else speeds up, the fascist creep is now slowing down in order to not be noticeable. Whether this is LIHOP, MIHOP or HIJHE (Hope it just happens eventually), it still happened.

Here's the thing about fascists. They don't know they are.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:18 am

From the articles, a central theme seems to be with this guy the idea of "dreaming". "dreamers" as in people in a waking dream. Not so much in the typical conspiratainment "everyones a sheeple, how many are awake to whats going on" way...but in a more esoteric sense.

Mind control may have been a brief theme on one of his videos, but Im not sure if my mc alarm bells are ringing on this one(as they may in say a case like Sirhan Sirhan, Mohamed Atta, John Hinckley Jr, Mark Chapman, the DC Sniper, etc)

82_28 wrote:I personally am sick of these "clear headed" non-partisan kool-kidz around and about the Internet that say we all must wait and see what the motive was as far as this shooter is concerned. Fuck these breezy apologists of fascism. Fuck them. I don't give a fuck how you cut it. I blame the right wing and everything they are and what they have ever been about. Period. Full stop.


I agree. Where is the right wing in opposing war, torture, globalization slavery, or highlighting the need for mental health care, helping the needy, or highlighting the need for better standards to protect the environment? And the "small government/anti wasteful spending" is bullshit...as thats precisely what happened under Bush. On steroids

vanlose kid wrote:the one thing I feel like I can say about the 22 year old is that he seems to be someone desperately needing mental health care.



Oh absolutely. Thats a topic that really need to come to the forefront. Hear in California it's really been a big issue, as Arnold closed down so much of the help for people that need mental health.
Heck, imagine all the messed up vets that will be coming back.

But no, the right wing crazies want to focus on "commie health care" and bogus fake memes.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Elvis » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:35 am

pepsified thinker wrote:Checked a bit further on the google results and there IS a Tucson Citizen hit for the "Thornydale and Magee Roads"


Google cache of the page with "Police at home near Thornydale and Magee roads, man in custody, third suspect being sought. Deputies at scene say arrests are connected to Giffords shooting ..." http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8uR7e3cS15cJ:www.tucsoncitizen.com/+%22Thornydale+and+Magee+Roads%22&cd=19&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us0 -- has a link for "MORE" which goes here:
http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/389
--where there is no mention of Thornydale and Magee Roads. (and no Google cache of it yet.)

Leads to "John Does," possible handlers, etc. are being scrubbed?
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby temp-monitor » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:35 am

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:25 am

82_28 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:
82_28 wrote:I personally am sick of these "clear headed" non-partisan kool-kidz around and about the Internet that say we all must wait and see what the motive was as far as this shooter is concerned. Fuck these breezy apologists of fascism. Fuck them. I don't give a fuck how you cut it. I blame the right wing and everything they are and what they have ever been about. Period. Full stop.


FFS The right wing.

Just cos they are calling for this sort of shit.

Bloody hell from the outside yanks go ballistic all the time and shoot people. OK in this case it was a political assassination, by someone who called the US a terrorist nation and had a video of someone burning the flag in his youtube favorites, the only vid. Not exactly right wing talking points.

About the only way you can blame the "right wing" for this is if they manipulated the guy into it, and to do that ... well it wouldn't have been as simple as "hey Palin is right lets shoot the bitch."

At least not on what I have seen up till now.

I'm happy to be proved wrong.


I will never be able to prove you wrong. It's the milieu which the right wing has created, going on for as long as I've been alive. With each and every atrocity they move in ever further into plausible deniability (denial?), the likes of which they accuse "the left" of for having fucked up America with their socialism. Except there wouldn't be no motherfucking "socialism" without their corporatism masquerading as "conservatism" in which fake ass, pretend socialism can become an all of a sudden threat to the "fabric" of America. It's all managed and I hope they're jumping the motherfucking shark. Yet, as they do jump this shark, they're gonna copy shit like this in order to emit the perception that shit is coming apart, not due to them, but because, well, SHIT'S JUST GETTIN CRAYZEEER AND CRAYZEER!!!!1! They're creating the scapegoat of the 21st century or the fourth reich as we speak.

While everything else speeds up, the fascist creep is now slowing down in order to not be noticeable. Whether this is LIHOP, MIHOP or HIJHE (Hope it just happens eventually), it still happened.

Here's the thing about fascists. They don't know they are.


Fair enough, I've been arguing about this with rational leftist academics all day, sorry to confuse you and them.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby sergeant stiletto » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:34 am

barracuda wrote:More on the other suspect(s) from here:

A 22-year-old suspect was in custody, law enforcement officials said. But at a Saturday evening news conference, investigators said they were looking for an accomplice who may have helped the gunman.
...
At a news conference Saturday evening, Dupnik said there was "some reason to believe" that the suspect in custody did not act alone. Officials said they were seeking a second suspect, a 50-year-old, white male.


His dad is 58. Randy Loughner.
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