Giffords shooting

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 2012 Countdown » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:11 pm

We here at AboveTopSecret.com, our owners, staff and membership find ourselves in the unfortunate position of apparently being one of the largest (if not the largest) repositories of online postings by someone who has been classified as a 'monster' (among other things) due to his (accused) actions of two days ago," according to a message posted Monday on the site.

Abovetopsecret operators said their research resulted "in an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence" that a poster called "erad3" is Loughner.

The messages have similar themes to other Loughner posts: government brainwashing, concerns about currency and declining use of proper grammar.

Loughner's web posts on the conspiracy site also address the end of the world and additional government conspiracies. He also made several postings about NASA, saying several spaceflights are hoaxes.

link-
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... z1B3MtRy3g

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Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
The alleged shooter’s statements closely echo the teachings of a popular far-right tax-resister movement.
— By Justine Sharrock

Tue Jan. 11, 2011 12:48 PM PST

What was going on in Jared Loughner's mind? Based on his online rantings, the man who allegedly emptied a 31-round clip into Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and dozens of bystanders Saturday was preoccupied with theories on a massive government fraud. Many of his seemingly random statements—on "grammar," "the ratifications," "the new currency," and more—echo the teachings of the "sovereign citizen" movement, a right-wing school of thought alleging that Americans have been surreptitiously stripped of their God-given rights.

These are not random parallels, as I discovered in reviewing Loughner's YouTube videos. In multiple instances, he uses the precise talking points sovereign-citizen theorists teach via a thriving cottage industry of books, websites, bogus legal companies, and seminars; one popular theorist, David Wynn Miller, told the New York Times that Loughner has "probably been on my website." (It's important to note that the sovereign-citizen movement is a philosophy, not an organized movement; Loughner's interest in its teachings doesn't implicate any individuals or organizations in his actions.) A few cases in point, taken from a video Loughner posted on December 15, 2010.

"The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." (3:34)

As the Guardian's Peter Walker and Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown reports have pointed out, this is the basic premise of the sovereign-citizen argument, which posits that government has used linguistic devices in certain laws to strip us of our rights. "This is an extraordinary freaking word game," says Alfred Adask, a guru of the sovereign movement and former publisher of the sovereign-citizen magazine AntiShyster, told me. "Not many people know how to do it or even understand it. The government has ensnared us with the sophisticated use of words and put us back into bondage. You have to master the definitions and start working out with a law dictionary."

"I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications." (3:34)

To theorists like Robert Kelly, publisher of The American's Sovereign Bulletin, the leading publication in the sovereign-citizen world, it all started with the Constitution's Reconstruction Amendments—the 13th, 14th, and 15th—which established a secondary class of citizens under the control of the government. This was done by cleverly deploying phrases such as "citizens subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and "inalienable rights" (supposedly denoting rights that can be surrendered, as opposed to "unalienable rights" that can never be taken away). People in the sovereign citizens' movement believe that these subterfuges were originally used to limit African Americans' rights, but have been expanded over time to make all of us second-class citizens with limited rights. (Another favorite case in point: the use of the phrase "man or other animals" in the 1906 Pure Food and Drug Act—implying, they argue, that humans have no more legal rights than animals).



"You don't have to accept the federalist laws. Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws." (3:10)

The sovereign citizen movement argues that if you closely study the Constitution, you can prove that federal laws are illegitimate—leaving you free to choose not to, say, pay taxes or follow traffic laws. In their view, the minute you get a Social Security number or driver's license, you enter into a contract giving up your sovereignty. (Several sovereign-citizen adherents have told me that home births are popular in the movement for this reason.) To become a sovereign citizen, you retroactively withdraw from this contract. Some also argue that you aren't bound to government contracts if you sign documents in red crayon or use lowercase lettering, alternative punctuation for your name (say, "Justine,,, Sharrock"), or add the letters "TDC" for "under threat, duress, and coercion.") There are myriad theories on how to prove your sovereignty in a court of law, with plenty of experts willing to help—for a fee.

"They are innovative with the pseudolegal and historical tactics," says Mark Pitcavage, a researcher with the Anti-Defamation League. "They are always coming up with new things." Most sovereign citizens employ what the FBI calls "paper terrorism"—using legal documents fraudulently to harass public officials—when fighting the government in the courts. People identifying as sovereign citizens have also on occasion fired on police officers trying to enforce laws, and there are rare cases of extreme violence—most notably Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols, who identified as a sovereign citizen and even tried to use the movement's arguments in his legal defense.

"These people are bookworms trying to use words, quote the Constitution, and make it their business to learn and commit to memory the definitions," says Adask. "But if people won't hear their words, sooner or later they will hear bullets."

"There is nothing about the sovereign movement that promotes violence per se," says Brent Johnson, host of the "Global Freedom Report" online radio show, though he quickly adds that "it should never be removed from the table." He espouses nonviolence, but says the IRS and cops know not to mess with him: "If you look like you are prepared to fight back, you will be left alone." Last May, a father-and-son pair from Ohio, both self-declared sovereign citizens, allegedly killed two police officers and wounded a sheriff and his deputy, who stopped them at a drug checkpoint; both the father and son were killed in an ensuing shootout. And in an April 2010 court case, Brody James Whitaker, who'd opened fire on Florida state troopers who tried to stop him for traffic violations, argued that the officers had no jurisdiction over him.



"No, I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!" (3:34)

A core sovereign-citizen belief is that when the United States went off the gold standard, the government started using citizens as economic collateral—using our future earnings to secure foreign debt in a sort of giant Ponzi scheme. In this theory, you exist as a regular flesh-and-blood person, but there is also your "corporate shell" (often referred to as "the straw man"), which exists merely on paper and is created when you sign up for a Social Security card.

If all this sounds confusing, that's because it is, even for sovereign citizens themselves. "I have a hard time believing it, but you keep seeing examples again and again," says Adask. "As fantastic as it might sound, they [the government] have literally created an alternative reality." Likewise, Johnson says "we have been living in a matrix world." It follows that sovereign citizens, unlike the tea party movement, don't believe in working to change the government; they insist that all of it is an illegitimate scam we must simply reject.

That's an appealing thought for many—especially given that it comes with an obligation to stop paying taxes, stop paying bills in a false currency, and stop obeying the orders of courts and police.

The recession and a more activist federal government have been a boon to the movement, which saw its previous high point under similar circumstances in the '90s. Today, the Southern Poverty Law Center estimates the total number of believers at 300,000, but acknowledges that the figure includes all manner of tax resisters. Pitcavage, who has been studying the movement for more than 15 years, says he has been receiving more and more calls from law enforcement officials asking for advice on dealing with self-declared sovereign citizens.

When I asked Adask what draws most people to the ideology, he said it's usually desperation after a bankruptcy proceeding or other legal battle. His sovereignty seminars in Texas resembled group therapy sessions, he says, since fighting a system stacked against you "makes you almost mentally ill." Many in the movement, he adds, were the type "who had tears in their eyes when they heard the national anthem. When they found it was a fraud, they were desperate to find something new to believe in. That also makes them very susceptible to being exploited."

While the Food and Drug act remains a foundational law of the FDA mission, it's not the law that created the FDA. The phrase "man or other animals" was introduced in the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906, during which the Bureau of Chemistry (the precursor to the FDA) regulated food safety. In 1927 the Bureau was reorganized into the Food, Drug, and Insecticide Administration and the Bureau of Chemistry and Soils. The FDIA was renamed the FDA in 1930.

Read our exclusive interview with a friend of the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, who describes Loughner's family, bizarre dream journal, and his obsession with Rep. Giffords. Full coverage of the shooting and its aftermath is here.

Justine Sharrock is a former Mother Jones staffer. Her most recent book is Tortured: How Our Cowardly Leaders Abused Prisoners, American Soldiers, and Everything We're Fighting For,.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01 ... e-loughner

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:01 pm

So not only is Lared a pot smoker, who dabbles in the occult, who may or may not still have hair, who posed in his g-string and took pics of himself the night before the killings, he's now an online conspiracy theorist who posts on a well known spook infiltrated website.

This guy is right out of Karl Rove's fantasy character playbook.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby matrixdutch » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:08 pm

The fact that he participated at a place like AboveTopSecret sounds about right. :clown
Our truth consists of illusions that we have forgotten are illusions - Nietzsche
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby nathan28 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:27 pm

The Consul wrote:
nathan28 wrote:If that's accurate, I find it shows some quick-wittedness that he was able to position himself that advantageously, or maybe he had some training (which isn't that hard to come by, I know people who have taken "tactical" firearms courses for the hell of it).


Or he just logged in 2000 hours of Halo and Call of Duty. Still, it is amazing that a guy could be so frantic and unbalanced and yet to focused once inside the kill zone. He had a very high target rate. Still begs question of entry point of first shot vs. his position, Giffords placement.

Sickening to think just how easy it was.


I thought about that, but firing a gun is a lot fucking different than pressing a video game controller's buttons. You know, like recoil and noise. To start I think "lean forward line up sights breath aim squezze shoot follow-through" if I so much as have an air rifle in my hands, a discrete and repeated process conspiciously absent from clicking a mouse button. I can't speak to in-the-moment judgment calls like positioning and cover, but can't imagine it has anywhere near the same texture in experience, either. Of course you have to try something to learn how to do it, so maybe he was just applying what he learned from Halo 16 or whatever.
Last edited by nathan28 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Nordic » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:51 pm

That insane face of Loughner from his mugshot is the very face of Official America.

I've been wondering how I could photoshop it to look like Obama .... haven't tackled it yet ... might not be possible ...

Cindy Sheehan put this on her Facebook page yesterday:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/14 ... nt-people/

It's graphic (BE WARNED) photos of the dead children America killed in one drone strike.

Where's Obama eulogizing these kids?

God I hate that guy.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:02 pm

Nordic wrote:That insane face of Loughner from his mugshot is the very face of Official America.

I've been wondering how I could photoshop it to look like Obama .... haven't tackled it yet ... might not be possible ...

Cindy Sheehan put this on her Facebook page yesterday:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/14 ... nt-people/

It's graphic (BE WARNED) photos of the dead children America killed in one drone strike.

Where's Obama eulogizing these kids?

God I hate that guy.

BTW: It is my understanding that the Tuscon police have not released Lared's mug shots.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby nathan28 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:55 pm

„MAN MUSS BEFUERCHTEN, DASS DAS GANZE IN GOTTES HAND IST"

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby RocketMan » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:10 pm

nathan28 wrote:2d Amend. Rites: Fox wounds hunter with gun, escapes

-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby barracuda » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:27 pm

Statement by Eric Fuller, a victim of the shooting in Tuscon.

The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby sergeant stiletto » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:37 pm

matrixdutch wrote:The fact that he participated at a place like AboveTopSecret sounds about right. :clown


:roll:

Anyway, high weirdness:
One AZ shooting victim makes threat at media town hall meeting:

http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13849741
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Nordic » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:09 pm

DoYouEverWonder wrote:
Nordic wrote:That insane face of Loughner from his mugshot is the very face of Official America.

I've been wondering how I could photoshop it to look like Obama .... haven't tackled it yet ... might not be possible ...

Cindy Sheehan put this on her Facebook page yesterday:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/14 ... nt-people/

It's graphic (BE WARNED) photos of the dead children America killed in one drone strike.

Where's Obama eulogizing these kids?

God I hate that guy.

BTW: It is my understanding that the Tuscon police have not released Lared's mug shots.



Uh .... then what is this?

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby undead » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:57 pm

I wonder if they are going to torture him in the new Guantanamo Bay. Probably not, right? I wonder why he isn't being held as an "enemy combatant" of a terrorist organization?
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:01 pm

nathan28 wrote:FWIW & since there was speculation in this vein earlier, CNN is offering a 'reconstruction' of the shooting. Loughner by CNN's account positioned himself between the table Giffords and two others were standing at and at the end of the crowd so that he could fire on Giffords and then have everyone else lined up catercorner across from him a few feet away so that he'd be almost certain to hit people. He had a semi-auto 9mm, so he could have emptied the clip fast enough that people likely wouldn't be able to disperse in time to get away.

If that's accurate, I find it shows some quick-wittedness that he was able to position himself that advantageously, or maybe he had some training (which isn't that hard to come by, I know people who have taken "tactical" firearms courses for the hell of it).

But that said, as far as an assassination, well, it doesn't look like he killed the intended target so much as just caused mayhem, which leads me to doubt that he was 'handled' to kill Giffords.


I do believe there are cases where a "lone nut" is handled or programmed/triggered to do an assassination. Im sure a lot of us can think of cases where it's highly probable(Sirhan Sirhan), and where there's indications of the possibility(Hinckley...who is pretty much a free man, and Chapman) But regardless if Loughner was "handled" or in his own psychosis wanted to kill Giffords, it's now backfired to the other extreme. All indications are that she's recovering beyond what was expected, and if she retains her mental faculties in the coming years...it's going to bring her to Obama circa 07/08 like proportions. Which is the sheer opposite of what someone would want in an assassination. Some have noticed that before Reagan was shot, he stood up to Bush Sr...but after the shooting, he seemed to truly fit into the figurehead role and seemed to really take a backseat with decisions.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:07 pm

Nordic wrote:That insane face of Loughner from his mugshot is the very face of Official America.

I've been wondering how I could photoshop it to look like Obama .... haven't tackled it yet ... might not be possible ...

Cindy Sheehan put this on her Facebook page yesterday:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/14 ... nt-people/

It's graphic (BE WARNED) photos of the dead children America killed in one drone strike.

Where's Obama eulogizing these kids?

God I hate that guy.


This is why I still take pot shots at my fellow liberals as well as the tea party.

Liberals claim they hated Bush's wars, but are silent on Obama's authorized drone stikes which have killed over a thousand non combatant civilians.
Tea Party claims to hate the government, but is silent on protesting the war, torture, drone strikes, etc
Makes no sense

I'd LOVE to see SNL, The Onion, OR SOMEONE take Obama's eulogy in Tucson and make it look like he's talking about the dead drone strike victims in Pakistan(or cut it with the footage of the aftermath)

The fact we seem to be the only one's noticing this bizarre irony is really sad
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:19 pm

Nordic wrote:
DoYouEverWonder wrote:
Nordic wrote:That insane face of Loughner from his mugshot is the very face of Official America.

I've been wondering how I could photoshop it to look like Obama .... haven't tackled it yet ... might not be possible ...

Cindy Sheehan put this on her Facebook page yesterday:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/14 ... nt-people/

It's graphic (BE WARNED) photos of the dead children America killed in one drone strike.

Where's Obama eulogizing these kids?

God I hate that guy.

BTW: It is my understanding that the Tuscon police have not released Lared's mug shots.



Uh .... then what is this?

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In this handout provided by the Pima County Sheriff's Forensic Unit, Jared Lee Loughner poses for a photo.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/america-and-the-world/110110/jared-lee-loughner-mugshot-disturbs-viewers-photos


Doesn't say anything about it being his mug shot.
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