Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby semper occultus » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:55 pm

distasteful as it may be there's a chance the kleptocratic scum-bag Mubarak actually has a point - its hatred of him that's giving the revolution a focus & cohesion & preventing a civil-war – didn’t everyone in Russia want to see the back of the Czar …...I freely admit I haven't the slightest clue what could happen in Egypt but how many of us predicted we were going to be here a month ago ?

it's ironic that one desperate man in Tunisia sacrificing himself could trigger political change on this scale & at this speed - maybe if those Hamas "martyrs" went & blew themselves up selflessly in the middle of a square somewhere they might attract slightly more sympathy to their cause from those otherwise repelled by civilians & kids being splattered all over pizza restaurants & school-buses....
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Plutonia » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:27 pm

04/02/2011 / EGYPT
"I was paid 5,000 pounds to wreak havoc in the Cairo protests"

[video confession at site]

According to the person who shot this video, the man it features was one of the Mubarak supporters who attacked opposition demonstrators Wednesday evening in Cairo. Caught and detained by anti-Mubarak protesters, he was filmed confessing that he had been paid by authorities to attack demonstrators and to shout “Long live Mubarak!”

A similar video was shot by one of our contacts in Cairo, Ramy Raoof. Another of our Observers, Ismail Iskandrani, also told us he met people who acknowledged that they had been paid to cause trouble in protests in Alexandria.

The above video was shot on Wednesday evening by Mohamed Abd Elatty, a freelance journalist and blogger in Cairo. It shows the filmed confession of a frightened-looking young man. He says he was paid 5,000 Egyptian pounds (621 euros) to join the groups of armed militants that faced off with anti-government protesters on Cairo’s Tahrir square.

In Egypt, armed militias known as "baltgia", whose members are mostly unemployed young men from low-income neighbourhoods, are reportedly sometimes used by security forces to crack down on protests. According to some experts, baltgias have been used in the past to wreak havoc in anti-government protests, to pave the way for security forces to intervene and “restore order”.

Plain-clothed policemen were also reportedly present among the rioters. Human Rights Watch confirmed that police ID cards were found on several non-uniformed men who had been taking part in looting sprees in Cairo and Alexandria.

"I think he was trying to get people to feel sorry for him"
Mohamed Abd Elatty is a freelance journalist and blogger in Cairo. He filmed this man's confession.

During the clashes on Wednesday, when anti-government demonstrators managed to catch Mubarak supporters, they disarmed them and handed them over to soldiers Late in the evening, I approached a group of protesters that had detained several baltgia militiamen, and asked the pro-Mubarak men if they would agree to be filmed explaining what their motivations were, because there are a lot of rumours going around on the subject. This young man was the only one who accepted.

He told me that he came from Alexandria and had been arrested – wrongfully, according to him – for drug trafficking. While he was in jail awaiting trial, a policeman reportedly came to see him and around 30 other prisoners and offered them each 5,000 Egyptian pounds if they accepted to participate in pro-Mubarak protests in Cairo. Unlike the other men he was with when protesters captured him on Wednesday, he didn’t have an ID card on him, which makes sense if he was a prisoner.

Another interesting point is that he claims to be from Alexandria. Right now, transportation between Egyptian cities is so bad that he can only have been brought by a government vehicle. In fact, most of the pro-Mubarak protesters that were arrested were unemployed men from outside Cairo: how did they all make it to Tahrir square?

I’m not sure why this man agreed to a video confession. I think he was trying to get people to feel sorry for him, by saying that he came from a very poor family, that he had lost his mother and had no choice but to accept money to join pro-Mubarak protesters. Maybe he hoped his captors wouldn’t hand him over to the army. Rumour has it that rioters who are handed over to the army are swiftly tried in a military court, with no real chance to defend themselves. There’s no official law stating this, but most people seem to think it’s the case. Maybe that’s what this young man was trying to avoid.”

Three membership cards to Hosni Mubarak's National Democrat party (the green ones) were found on rioters participating in Wednesday's clashes. Photo posted on Flickr.

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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:45 pm

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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby 82_28 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:51 pm

OMFG.

A well timed live interview with Bill O'Reilly and Obama in the middle of the Superbowl proceedings on FOX. All about Egypt. It's on right now.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:26 pm

lupercal wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:
CIAounterPunch wrote:Wisner urged Mubarak to concede. It is not enough. More is being asked for. Today, Mubarak's supporters have come out with bats in hand, ready for a fight. This has probably also been sanctioned in that private meeting. It is what one expects of Empire's bagman.

So Mubarak tells Wisner to fuck off and Counterputz (speaking of the Empire's bagmen) sagely informs us that "This has probably also been sanctioned in that private meeting." Good comic relief there.


What makes people think Wisner went there to tell Mubarak to step down?
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:34 pm

semper occultus wrote:distasteful as it may be there's a chance the kleptocratic scum-bag Mubarak actually has a point - its hatred of him that's giving the revolution a focus & cohesion & preventing a civil-war – didn’t everyone in Russia want to see the back of the Czar …...I freely admit I haven't the slightest clue what could happen in Egypt but how many of us predicted we were going to be here a month ago ?

it's ironic that one desperate man in Tunisia sacrificing himself could trigger political change on this scale & at this speed - maybe if those Hamas "martyrs" went & blew themselves up selflessly in the middle of a square somewhere they might attract slightly more sympathy to their cause from those otherwise repelled by civilians & kids being splattered all over pizza restaurants & school-buses....


There was a church bombing in Cairo before the year started. It was on a Coptic church, and while everyone was predicting further division because of it the actual result was that it seemed to unite Christians and Muslims as "Egyptian". Perhaps the country is cosmopolitan enough to remain united once Mubarak goes.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:58 pm

Image

Depicted in this photo, an image from an anonymous source on the ground in Egypt, is a team of Egyptian Christians forming a massive human shield to protect their Muslim countrymen as they prayed during the violent protests yesterday. Beauty amid the chaos.

Update: The woman behind this photo is said to be Egyptian Nevine Zaki..
Last edited by Searcher08 on Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:07 pm

Paul Mason, the economics correspondant of BBC Newsnight has a blog post up that's well worth reading, some good points, some very questionable but worth a go nonetheless. Although it does reinforce my view that references to quantum physics in articles should be banned for everybody but quantum physicists:

We've had revolution in Tunisia, Egypt's Mubarak is teetering; in Yemen, Jordan and Syria suddenly protests have appeared. In Ireland young techno-savvy professionals are agitating for a "Second Republic"; in France the youth from banlieues battled police on the streets to defend the retirement rights of 60-year olds; in Greece striking and rioting have become a national pastime. And in Britain we've had riots and student occupations that changed the political mood.

What's going on? What's the wider social dynamic?

My editors yesterday asked me put some bullet points down for a discussion on the programme that then didn't happen but I am throwing them into the mix here, on the basis of various conversations with academics who study this and also the participants themselves.

At the heart of it all are young people, obviously; students; westernised; secularised. They use social media - as the mainstream media has now woken up to - but this obsession with reporting "they use twitter" is missing the point of what they use it for.

In so far as there are common threads to be found in these different situation, here's 20 things I have spotted:

1. At the heart if it all is a new sociological type: the graduate with no future

2. ...with access to social media, such as Facebook, Twitter and eg Yfrog so they can express themselves in a variety of situations ranging from parliamentary democracy to tyrrany.

3. Therefore truth moves faster than lies, and propaganda becomes flammable.

4. They are not prone to traditional and endemic ideologies: Labourism, Islamism, Fianna Fail Catholicism etc... in fact hermetic ideologies of all forms are rejected.

5. Women very numerous as the backbone of movements. After twenty years of modernised labour markets and higher-education access the "archetypal" protest leader, organizer, facilitator, spokesperson now is an educated young woman.

6. Horizontalism has become endemic because technology makes it easy: it kills vertical hierarchies spontaneously, whereas before - and the quintessential experience of the 20th century - was the killing of dissent within movements, the channeling of movements and their bureaucratisaton.

7. Memes: "A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes, in that they self-replicate, mutate and respond to selective pressures." (Wikipedia) - so what happens is that ideas arise, are very quickly "market tested" and either take off, bubble under, insinuate themselves or if they are deemed no good they disappear. Ideas self-replicate like genes. Prior to the internet this theory (see Richard Dawkins, 1976) seemed an over-statement but you can now clearly trace the evolution of memes.

8. They all seem to know each other: not only is the network more powerful than the hierarchy - but the ad-hoc network has become easier to form. So if you "follow" somebody from the UCL occupation on Twitter, as I have done, you can easily run into a radical blogger from Egypt, or a lecturer in peaceful resistance in California who mainly does work on Burma so then there are the Burmese tweets to follow. During the early 20th century people would ride hanging on the undersides of train carriages across borders just to make links like these.

9. The specifics of economic failure: the rise of mass access to university-level education is a given. Maybe soon even 50% in higher education will be not enough. In most of the world this is being funded by personal indebtedess - so people are making a rational judgement to go into debt so they will be better paid later. However the prospect of ten years of fiscal retrenchment in some countries means they now know they will be poorer than their parents. And the effect has been like throwing a light switch; the prosperity story is replaced with the doom story, even if for individuals reality will be more complex, and not as bad as they expect.

10.This evaporation of a promise is compounded in the more repressive societies and emerging markets because - even where you get rapid economic growth - it cannot absorb the demographic bulge of young people fast enough to deliver rising living standards for enough of them.

11.To amplify: I can't find the quote but one of the historians of the French Revolution of 1789 wrote that it was not the product of poor people but of poor lawyers. You can have political/economic setups that disappoint the poor for generations - but if lawyers, teachers and doctors are sitting in their garrets freezing and starving you get revolution. Now, in their garrets, they have a laptop and broadband connection.

12.The weakness of organised labour means there's a changed relationship between the radicalized middle class, the poor and the organised workforce. The world looks more like 19th century Paris - heavy predomination of the "progressive" intelligentsia, intermixing with the slum-dwellers at numerous social interfaces (cabarets in the 19C, raves now); huge social fear of the excluded poor but also many rags to riches stories celebrated in the media (Fifty Cent etc); meanwhile the solidaristic culture and respectability of organized labour is still there but, as in Egypt, they find themselves a "stage army" to be marched on and off the scene of history.

13.This leads to a loss of fear among the young radicals of any movement: they can pick and choose; there is no confrontation they can't retreat from. They can "have a day off" from protesting, occupying: whereas twith he old working-class based movements, their place in the ranks of battle was determined and they couldn't retreat once things started. You couldn't "have a day off" from the miners' strike if you lived in a pit village.

14.In addition to a day off, you can "mix and match": I have met people who do community organizing one day, and the next are on a flotilla to Gaza; then they pop up working for a think tank on sustainable energy; then they're writing a book about something completely different. I was astonished to find people I had interviewed inside the UCL occupation blogging from Tahrir Square this week.

15. People just know more than they used to. Dictatorships rely not just on the suppression of news but on the suppression of narratives and truth. More or less everything you need to know to make sense of the world is available as freely downloadable content on the internet: and it's not pre-digested for you by your teachers, parents, priests, imams. For example there are huge numbers of facts available to me now about the subjects I studied at university that were not known when I was there in the 1980s. Then whole academic terms would be spent disputing basic facts, or trying to research them. Now that is still true but the plane of reasoning can be more complex because people have an instant reference source for the undisputed premises* of arguments. It's as if physics has been replaced by quantum physics, but in every discipline.

16.There is no Cold War, and the War on Terror is not as effective as the Cold War was in solidifying elites against change. Egypt is proving to be a worked example of this: though it is highly likely things will spiral out of control, post Mubarak - as in all the colour revolutons - the dire warnings of the US right that this will lead to Islamism are a "meme" that has not taken off. In fact you could make an interesting study of how the meme starts, blossoms and fades away over the space of 12 days. To be clear: I am not saying they are wrong - only that the fear of an Islamist takeover in Egypt has not been strong enough to swing the US presidency or the media behind Mubarak.

17. It is - with international pressure and some powerful NGOs - possible to bring down a repressive government without having to spend years in the jungle as a guerilla, or years in the urban underground: instead the oppositional youth - both in the west in repressive regimes like Tunisia/Egypt, and above all in China - live in a virtual undergrowth online and through digital comms networks. The internet is not key here - it is for example the things people swap by text message, the music they swap with each other etc: the hidden meanings in graffiti, street art etc which those in authority fail to spot.

18. People have a better understanding of power. The activists have read their Chomsky and their Hardt-Negri, but the ideas therein have become mimetic: young people believe the issues are no longer class and economics but simply power: they are clever to the point of expertise in knowing how to mess up hierarchies and see the various "revolutions" in their own lives as part of an "exodus" from oppression, not - as previous generations did - as a "diversion into the personal". While Foucault could tell Gilles Deleuze: "We had to wait until the nineteenth century before we began to understand the nature of exploitation, and to this day, we have yet to fully comprehend the nature of power",- that's probably changed.

19. As the algebraic sum of all these factors it feels like the protest "meme" that is sweeping the world - if that premise is indeed true - is profoundly less radical on economics than the one that swept the world in the 1910s and 1920s; they don't seek a total overturn: they seek a moderation of excesses. However on politics the common theme is the dissolution of centralized power and the demand for "autonomy" and personal freedom in addition to formal democracy and an end to corrupt, family based power-elites.

20. Technology has - in many ways, from the contraceptive pill to the iPod, the blog and the CCTV camera - expanded the space and power of the individual.

Some complications....

a) all of the above are generalisations: and have to be read as such.

b) are these methods replicable by their opponents? Clearly up to a point they are. So the assumption in the global progressive movement that their values are aligned with that of the networked world may be wrong. Also we have yet to see what happens to all this social networking if a state ever seriously pulls the plug on the technology: switches the mobile network off, censors the internet, cyber-attacks the protesters.

c) China is the laboratory here, where the Internet Police are paid to go online and foment pro-government "memes" to counteract the oppositional ones. The Egyptian leftist blogger Arabawy.org says on his website that : "in a dictatorship, independent journalism by default becomes a form of activism, and the spread of information is essentially an act of agitation." But independent journalism is suppressed in many parts of the world.

d) what happens to this new, fluffy global zeitgeist when it runs up against the old-style hierarchical dictatorship in a death match, where the latter has about 300 Abrams tanks? We may be about to find out.

e) - and this one is troubling for mainstream politics: are we creating a complete disconnect between the values and language of the state and those of the educated young? Egypt is a classic example - if you hear the NDP officials there is a time-warped aspect to their language compared to that of young doctors and lawyers on the Square. But there are also examples in the UK: much of the political discourse - on both sides of the House of Commons - is treated by many young people as a barely intelligible "noise" - and this goes wider than just the protesters.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/pa ... cking.html

*it all hinges on this really doesn't it
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Plutonia » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:04 pm

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:
there are huge numbers of facts available to me now about the subjects I studied at university that were not known when I was there in the 1980s. Then whole academic terms would be spent disputing basic facts, or trying to research them. Now that is still true but the plane of reasoning can be more complex because people have an instant reference source for the undisputed premises* of arguments. ...

*it all hinges on this really doesn't it
Signal signal signal signal

e) - and this one is troubling for mainstream politics: are we creating a complete disconnect between the values and language of the state and those of the educated young? Egypt is a classic example - if you hear the NDP officials there is a time-warped aspect to their language compared to that of young doctors and lawyers on the Square. But there are also examples in the UK: much of the political discourse - on both sides of the House of Commons - is treated by many young people as a barely intelligible "noise" - and this goes wider than just the protesters.
Noise noise noise noise

:partydance:
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby semper occultus » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Perhaps the country is cosmopolitan enough to remain united once Mubarak goes.

...well I hope I'm wrong...& in fact I very often am.

I rate Paul Mason - he used to be a technology journalist - a branch of knowledge that seems to have rendered political science obsolete - the Iron Curtain was destroyed by the diffusion of satellite television dishes picking-up western adverts for consumer goods & now social networking is finishing off the rest of them...
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Plutonia » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:31 pm

semper occultus wrote: he used to be a technology journalist - a branch of knowledge that seems to have rendered political science obsolete
True

Robert Fisk reports on the protesters in Cairo are decision-making and organizing with the help of twitter:

Robert Fisk: Exhausted, scared and trapped, protesters put forward plan for future

On a day of drama and confusion in Cairo, opponents of the Mubarak regime propose a new kind of politics.

Saturday, 5 February 2011

Caged yesterday inside a new army cordon of riot-visored troops and coils of barbed wire – the very protection which Washington had demanded for the protesters of Tahrir Square – the tens of thousands of young Egyptians demanding Hosni Mubarak's overthrow have taken the first concrete political steps to create a new nation to replace the corrupt government which has ruled them for 30 years.

Sitting on filthy pavements, amid the garbage and broken stones of a week of street fighting, they have drawn up a list of 25 political personalities to negotiate for a new political leadership and a new constitution to replace Mubarak's crumbling regime.

They include Amr Moussa, the secretary general of the Arab League – himself a trusted Egyptian; the Nobel prize-winner Ahmed Zuwail, an Egyptian-American who has advised President Barack Obama; Mohamed Selim Al-Awa, a professor and author of Islamic studies who is close to the Muslim Brotherhood; and the president of the Wafd party, Said al-Badawi.

Other nominees for the committee, which was supposed to meet the Egyptian Vice-President, Omar Suleiman, within 24 hours, are Nagib Suez, a prominent Cairo businessman (involved in the very mobile phone systems shut down by Mubarak last week); Nabil al-Arabi, an Egyptian UN delegate; and even the heart surgeon Magdi Yacoub, who now lives in Cairo.

The selection – and the makeshift committee of Tahrir Square demonstrators and Facebook and Twitter "electors" – has not been confirmed, but it marks the first serious attempt to turn the massive street protests of the past seven days into a political machine that provides for a future beyond the overthrow of the much-hated President. The committee's first tasks would be to draw up a new Egyptian constitution and an electoral system that would prevent the president-for-life swindle which Mubarak's fraudulent elections have created. Instead, Egyptian presidents would be limited to two consecutive terms of office, and the presidential term itself would be reduced from six to four years.

But no one involved in this initiative has any doubts of the grim future that awaits them if their brave foray into practical politics fails. There was more sniping into Tahrir Square during the night – an engineer, a lawyer and another young man were killed – and plain-clothes police were again discovered in the square. There were further minor stone-throwing battles during the day, despite the vastly increased military presence, and most of the protesters fear that if they leave the square they will immediately be arrested, along with their families, by Mubarak's cruel state security apparatus.

Already, there are dark reports of demonstrators who dared to return home and disappeared. The Egyptian writer Mohamed Fadel Fahmy, who is involved in the committee discussions, is fearful for himself. "We're safe as long as we have the square," he said to me yesterday, urging me to publish his name as a symbol of the freedom he demands. "If we lose the square, Mubarak will arrest all the opposition groups – and there will be police rule as never before. That's why we are fighting for our lives."

The state security police now have long lists of names of protesters who have given television interviews or been quoted in newspapers, Facebook postings and tweets.

The protesters have identified growing divisions between the Egyptian army and the thugs of the interior ministry, whose guards exchanged fire with soldiers three days ago as they continued to occupy the building in which basement torture chambers remain undamaged by the street fighting. These were the same rooms of horror to which America's "renditioned" prisoners were sent for "special" treatment at the hands of Mubarak's more sadistic torturers – another favour which bound the Egyptian regime to the United States as a "trusted" ally.

Another young man involved in the committee selections admitted he didn't trust Omar Suleiman, the former spy boss and Israeli-Palestinian negotiator whom Mubarak appointed this week. Suleiman it is, by the way, who has been trying to shuffle responsibility for the entire crisis on to the foreign press – a vicious as well as dishonest way of exercising his first days of power. Yet he has cleverly outmanoeuvred the demonstrators in Tahrir Square by affording them army protection.

Indeed, yesterday morning, to the shock of all of us standing on the western side of the square, a convoy of 4x4s with blackened windows suddenly emerged from the gardens of the neighbouring Egyptian Museum, slithered to a halt in front of us and was immediately surrounded by a praetorian guard of red-bereted soldiers and massive – truly gigantic – security guards in shades and holding rifles with telescopic sights. Then, from the middle vehicle emerged the diminutive, bespectacled figure of Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, the chief of staff of the Egyptian army and a lifelong friend of Mubarak, wearing a soft green military kepi and general's cross-swords insignia on his shoulders.

Here was a visitor to take the breath away, waving briefly to the protesters who crowded the military cordon to witness this extraordinary arrival. The crowd roared. "The Egyptian army is our army," they shouted in unison. "But Mubarak is not ours." It was a message for Tantawi to take back to his friend Mubarak, but his visit was itself a powerful political symbol. However much Mubarak may rave about "foreign hands" behind the demands for his overthrow, and however many lies Suleiman may tell about foreign journalists, Tantawi was showing that the army took its mission to protect the demonstrators seriously. The recent military statement that it would never fire on those who wish to dethrone Mubarak, since their grievances were "legitimate", was authorised by Tantawi. Hence the demonstrators' belief – however naïve and dangerous – in the integrity of the military.

Crucially missing from the list of figures proposed for the committee are Mohamed ElBaradei, the former UN arms inspectors and Nobel laureate, and members of the Muslim Brotherhood, the "Islamist" spectre which Mubarak and the Israelis always dangled in front of the Americans to persuade them to keep old Mubarak in power. The Brotherhood's insistence in not joining talks until Mubarak's departure – and their support for ElBaradei, whose own faint presidential ambitions (of the "transitional" kind) have not commended themselves to the protesters – effectively excluded them. Suleiman has archly invited the Brotherhood to meet him, knowing that they will not do so until Mubarak has gone.

But al-Awa's proposed presence on the committee – and that of the Islamist intellectual Ahmed Kamel Abu Magd – will ensure that their views are included in any discussions with Suleiman. These talks would also cover civil and constitutional rights and a special clause to allow Suleiman to rule Egypt temporarily because "the President is unable to perform his duties".

Mubarak would be allowed to live privately in Egypt providing he played no part – publicly or covertly – in the political life of the country. He is regarded as a still-fierce opponent who will not hesitate to decapitate the opposition should he hang on to power.

"He is one of the old school, like Saddam and Arafat, who in the last two days has shown his true face," another committee supporter said yesterday. "He is the man behind the attacks on us and the shooting deaths." Mohamed Fahmy knows what this means. His own father has been in exile from Egypt for seven years – after proposing identical protests to those witnessed today to get rid of the Mubarak empire.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Nordic » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:58 pm

Searcher08 wrote:Image

Depicted in this photo, an image from an anonymous source on the ground in Egypt, is a team of Egyptian Christians forming a massive human shield to protect their Muslim countrymen as they prayed during the violent protests yesterday. Beauty amid the chaos.

Update: The woman behind this photo is said to be Egyptian Nevine Zaki..



That's beautiful, very moving.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Mr. Blissed » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:11 pm

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:Paul Mason, the economics correspondant of BBC Newsnight has a blog post up that's well worth reading, some good points, some very questionable but worth a go nonetheless. Although it does reinforce my view that references to quantum physics in articles should be banned for everybody but quantum physicists:


Gnosticheresy_2 :

You put forth an astounding set of excellent points which will take me some time to digest in full.

This is a bit of an aside, but I believe it has relevance because what is happening in Egypt is also occurring in various degrees on a global scale. There a "psychological", for lack of a better term change happening to societies in addition to the physical events.

People are now fundamentally changing the way they think and relate to others, not only on a cosmetic and social level, but I believe that this is having a physical effect on the brain. We are literally discovering new ways to process information and stepping away from the old hierarchical left brain versus right brain model.

This scares the hell out of the governments, not only in Egypt, but around the world. Point number nine regarding economic failure is an example of the bureaucracy trying to stifle these new changes.
9. The specifics of economic failure: the rise of mass access to university-level education is a given. Maybe soon even 50% in higher education will be not enough. In most of the world this is being funded by personal indebtedess - so people are making a rational judgement to go into debt so they will be better paid later. However the prospect of ten years of fiscal retrenchment in some countries means they now know they will be poorer than their parents. And the effect has been like throwing a light switch; the prosperity story is replaced with the doom story, even if for individuals reality will be more complex, and not as bad as they expect.


What better way to put a population under control and to put them back in debt. Thus ensuring the old hierarchical way of thinking and society persists

In Canada there is an ongoing attempt to control the Internet by applying "usage caps" as an initial step [see: this Open Media site for more information]. This would be the initial step in a downward slide. There has been discussion indicating that following steps might include ISPs implementing regional accounts.--your account package dictates which countries you can surf to. The more you pay, the farther you get.

Paranoid? I don't think so. I believe the bureaucracies will do anything to stop this new way of socializing and cooperating because it is a direct threat to capitalism and the rampant consumerism they have encouraged.
Mr. Blissed
Political correctness serves no one. Intent Is More Important Than the Word.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby DrVolin » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:30 pm

Learning some programing is really becoming a civic duty.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:39 pm

Searcher08 wrote:Image

Depicted in this photo, an image from an anonymous source on the ground in Egypt, is a team of Egyptian Christians forming a massive human shield to protect their Muslim countrymen as they prayed during the violent protests yesterday. Beauty amid the chaos.

Update: The woman behind this photo is said to be Egyptian Nevine Zaki..


the second coming (w.b. yeats, 1919)

turning and turning in the widening gyre
the falcon cannot hear the falconer;
things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
the ceremony of innocence is drowned;
the best lack all conviction, while the worst
are full of passionate intensity.

surely some revelation is at hand;
surely the second coming is at hand.
the second coming! hardly are those words out
when a vast image out of spiritus mundi
troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
a shape with lion body and the head of a man,
a gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
the darkness drops again; but now i know
that twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
and what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
slouches towards bethlehem to be born?
Image
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