Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:01 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:This is about 30,000 folks at the state capitol. It is not about dems and repugs. Although Wisconsin state reps should NOT be lumped in with the crap in Washington. There is a big difference

Without a national political infrastructure — and that includes the national Democratic-Republican pinball machine of pretend differences, dialectical "solutions," and political duplicity — what's happening this week at the state level against those thousands filling the capitol rotunda in Madison (and the many thousands more elsewhere in Wisconsin) would not be possible.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:16 pm

Simulist wrote:
seemslikeadream wrote:This is about 30,000 folks at the state capitol. It is not about dems and repugs. Although Wisconsin state reps should NOT be lumped in with the crap in Washington. There is a big difference

Without a national political infrastructure — and that includes the national Democratic-Republican pinball machine of pretend differences, dialectical "solutions," and political duplicity — what's happening this week at the state level against those thousands filling the capitol rotunda in Madison (and the many thousands more elsewhere in Wisconsin) would not be possible.




And what do you suggest those folks do instead, sit home and type?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:25 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:
Simulist wrote:
seemslikeadream wrote:This is about 30,000 folks at the state capitol. It is not about dems and repugs. Although Wisconsin state reps should NOT be lumped in with the crap in Washington. There is a big difference

Without a national political infrastructure — and that includes the national Democratic-Republican pinball machine of pretend differences, dialectical "solutions," and political duplicity — what's happening this week at the state level against those thousands filling the capitol rotunda in Madison (and the many thousands more elsewhere in Wisconsin) would not be possible.




And what do you suggest those folks do instead, sit home and type?

You mean now, after the horse has left the barn?

Yeah, that's a pretty tough place for those "folks" to be. After decades of the national Democratic Party embarrassing Democrats and besmirching the word "Democrat" to the point where comparatively few people (Republican or Democrat) remain inspired to vote for even state-level Democrats and to the point where the Republican Party is in possession of both the governorship and a majority in the state legislature — yeah, that's a terrible position to be in.

By being "loyal Democrats" at the state level, Democratic politicians have yoked themselves not just to a losing horse, but to an ass.

Maybe state-level Democrats should call out their own party on the national level, distinguishing themselves entirely: not only from Republicans who are clearly robbing state workers but also from the national Democratic Party, which — when it isn't seen as "useless" — is understood as a lie.

The national Democratic Party is dragging state Democrats down with them — and fast.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:37 pm

I don't disagree with you but I still don't understand what you want them to do now? Give up?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:41 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:I don't disagree with you but I still don't understand what you want them to do now? Give up?

No! I don't want them to give up!

I want them to keep doing what they're doing, AND take a stand against not only the Republican Party — which is obviously a collection of liars and thieves — but also against the national Democratic Party, which is enabling all that lying and thieving in ways that I've described and in many other ways besides.

Tragically, this is what happens when people remain loyal to duplicitous "friends," to the bitter end.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:46 pm

you know a drunk always has to hit bottom


Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:48 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:you know a drunk always has to hit bottom

Well said.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby anothershamus » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:50 pm

Rush Limbaugh called the teachers 'parasites'! He should hang with the bankers!

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/ ... parasites/
)'(
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:58 pm

What still remains remarkable to me really isn't that Rush Limbaugh called some of the most non-parasitical people in our society "parasites," but that his loyal listeners — some of which are surely driving cars — have sufficient brain-power to pilot an automobile down a freeway, even as they simultaneously listen to Limbaugh's verbal vomit.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:00 pm

Wisconsin Crowds Swell to 30,000; Key GOP Legislators Waver
Thursday 17 February 2011
by: John Nichols | The Nation | Report

Image
Protesters demonstrate at the Capitol Square in Madison, Wisconsin, on February 16, 2011. (Photo: Narayan Mahon / The New York Times)
"I have never been prouder of our movement than I am at this moment," shouted Wisconsin AFL-CIO President Phil Neuenfeldt, as he surveyed the crowds of union members and their supporters that surged around the state Capitol and into the streets of Madison Wednesday, literally closing the downtown as tens of thousands of Wisconsinites protested their Republican governor’s attempt to strip public employee unions of their collective bargaining rights.

Where Tuesday’s mid-day protests drew crowds estimated at 12,000 to 15,000, Wednesday's mid-day rally drew 30,000, according to estimates by organizers. Madison Police Chief Noble Wray, a veteran of 27 years on the city’s force, said he had has never see a protest of this size at the Capitol – and he noted that, while crowd estimates usually just measure those outside, this time the inside of the sprawling state Capitol was “packed.”

On Wednesday night, an estimated 20,000 teachers and their supporters rallied outside the Capitol and then marched into the building, filling the rotunda, stairways and hallways. Chants of "What's disgusting? Union busting!" shook the building as legislators met in committee rooms late into the night.

For continuing updates on Wisconsin protests, follow Truthout's blog.

The country was starting to take notice, as broadcast and cable-news satellite trucks rolled into town. The images they captured were stunning, as peaceful crowds filled vast stretches of the square that surrounds the seat of state government.

Republican legislators -- who had been poised to pass the governor’s plan Thursday, and might yet do so – were clearly paying attention. Two GOP senators broke with the governor, at least to some extent. Dale Schultz from rural southeastern Wisconsin and Van Wanggaard from the traditional manufacturing center of Racine, proposed an alternative bill that would allow limit bargaining rights for public employees on wages, pensions and health care for the next two years but allow them to continue to bargain on other issues.

While that’s hardly an attractive prospect to state workers – as it would also require them to make significantly higher pension and health-care contributions – the measure rejects the most draconian component’s of the governor’s plan. Other Republicans resisted the proposal, however, offering only minor amendments to the governor's plan.

If Schultz and Wanggaard actually vote "no" Thursday, when the measure is to be taken up, just one more Republican senator would have to join them in order to block the bill.

That the first real movement by Republicans came after Wednesday’s rally was hardly surprising, as few state capital’s have seen the sort of mobilization that occurred at mid-day, and that is likely to reoccur at nightfall as teachers from across the state are expected to pour into the city for a rally and candlelight vigil.

At a time when it's often tough to tell the difference between the corporate news and its advertisements, it's essential to keep independent journalism strong. Support Truthout today by clicking here.

In some senses, Wednesday’s remarkable rally began Tuesday evening, when Madison Teachers Inc., the local education union, announced that teachers would leave their classrooms to spend the day lobbying legislators to “Kill the Bill” that has been proposed by newly-elected Republican Governor Scott Walker.

The teachers showed up en masse in downtown Madison Wednesday morning.

And then something remarkable happened.

Instead of taking the day off, their students gathered at schools on the west and east sides of Madison and marched miles along the city’s main thoroughfares to join the largest mass demonstration the city has seen in decades – perhaps since the great protests of the Vietnam War era.

Thousands of high school students arrived at the Capital Square, coming from opposite directions, chanting: “We support our teachers! We support public education!”

Thousands of University of Wisconsin students joined them, decked out in the school’s red-and-white colors.

Also See: Noam Chomsky | "Democracy Uprising": Wisconsin's Resistance to Assault on Public Sector, the Obama-Sanctioned Crackdown on Activists and the Distorted Legacy of Ronald Reagan. (Democracy Now! VIDEO)

Buses rolled in from every corner of the state, from Racine and Kenosha in the southeast to Green Bay in the northeast, from La Crosse on the Mississippi River to Milwaukee on Lake Michigan.

Buses and cars arrived from Illinois and Minnesota and as far away as Kansas, as teachers and public employees from those states showed up at what American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union president Gerald McEntee says is “ground zero “in the struggle for labor rights in America.

The moms and dads of the elementary school kids came, and the kids, carrying hand-lettered signs:

“I love my teacher!”

“Scott Walker needs to go back to school!”

“Scott Walker needs a time out!”

And, “We are Wisconsin!

“I’ve been here since the 1960s, I’ve seen great demonstrations,” said former Mayor Paul Soglin, a proud former student radical who was nominated for a new term in Tuesday’s local primary election. “This is different. This is everyone – everyone turning out.”

Everyone except the governor, who high-tailed it out of town, launching a tour of outlying communities in hopes of drumming up support for his bill. Most of the support Walker was getting was coming from national conservative political groups, such as the Club for Growth, which have long hoped to break public-employee unions. But the governor held firm, saying after a day of unprecedented protests – in Madison and small towns and cities across the state – that he still wanted to pass his bill. He’s got strong support in the overwhelmingly Republican Assembly. But he cannot afford to lose one more Republican state senator. And the unions and their backers are determined to find that one Republican who is smart enough and honest enough to recognize that the governor's assault of public employees is an assault on Wisconsin itself.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby No_Baseline » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:45 am

okay, I've tried to follow the two page thread, while listening to Coldplay's Scientist on Pandora, and the result is AMAZING. The Dems RAN? This is MAJOR whether you are a R or a D....THEY RAN...Christ Almighty.

They ran.

What are they running from? Are they shouting from the atrium? How can we NOT know what THE ONLY OTHER MAJOR US PARTY is running from, a full two days after the event began and a full four days after dissent was predicted? There is STILL NOT A PARTY STATEMENT, even after the walkout, what does this say? (Besides my Pandora obsession, of course)
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby No_Baseline » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:01 am

I'm not for one minute posting a dissent to what the DEMS are doing, but for F***'s sake WHY????

You feel the need for MIA until some kind of public recgonition of What? An argument on workers rights is not anything new. Why Run, goddam it?


Missing Wisconsin Dem speaks: We're MIA until GOP drops assault on workers rights
By Greg Sargent
I just got off the phone with Wisconsin State Senator Chris Larson, one of the Democrats who has left the capitol in order to stall the GOP's plan to rolll back the bargaining rights of public employees. Speaking to me by cell phone from an undisclosed location, Larson said he and his fellow Democrats would not return until the GOP takes its assault on organizing rights "off the table."

"Each of us is in a secure location," he told me, confirming that they were not all together but were monitoring events on the Web and on Twitter. Larson refused to say whether he and his fellow Dems had left the state, as some have speculated.

"We're going to be staying away until we hear that they are taking the right to organize seriously," Larson continued, referring to Republicans. "They're going after 50 years of history in one week. Until they take that off the table, it's a non-starter."

Larson said Dems are not worried about law enforcement pursuing them and dragging them back to the capitol. Though the current proposal exempts state police, he said that individual officers had privately expressed solidarity with the Dems' and public employees' cause.

"They understand the importance of workers banded together to protect workers rights," Larson said, characterizing his conversations with officers. "They understand why we're here."

Dems will not return, Larson vowed, "until the Republicans are prepared to listen to the effects of this bill on workers and what it will do to our state."


2011
02
17
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By Greg Sargent | February 17, 2011; 4:50 PM ET
Categories: Labor
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:29 am

.

I don't know why you're angry about the Wisconsin Democrats "running." That's not true. They're fighting the attempt to end collective bargaining in Wisconsin. The means available to them are to avoid a vote, since they don't have the votes to prevent the Teabag government from passing this outrage and rolling back 130 years of workers' struggles. So they are physically avoiding the sergeant at arms, but as part of a fight, not a "run." If they walked into the capitol right now, the result would be passage of this insane measure. See?

Also, I find this heaping of abuse on Democrats in general just at a time when a group of them in a state have taken a stand against unprecedented plans for tyranny advanced by a Republican governor who is threatening something like open martial law to be... suspiciously doctrinaire. At best.

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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby eyeno » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:34 am

"suspicious and doctrinaire"?

Just because they ran does not mean they deserve any respect. They ran to protect their hides and their jobs in my opinion. If they had run before the protest they would have my respect. They did not. They ran after. They were obviously happy to walk in and let this legislation pass. One little group of cowards running in the heat of the moment garners no capital with me. It says nothing favorable about the Democratic political infrastructure as a whole. As far as I am concerned the Democratic political infrastructure has become an astroturf puppet with a bad astroturf toupee.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby nathan28 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:36 am

JackRiddler wrote:Also, I find this heaping of abuse on Democrats in general just at a time when a group of them in a state have taken a stand against unprecedented plans for tyranny advanced by a Republican governor who is threatening something like open martial law to be... suspiciously doctrinaire. At best.


Yeah, seriously. I'm sure B-Rock already gave the WI Dems guys notice they're never going to hold office again. The Dems do one thing right for the first time since Clinton and people's heads explode? I mean, besides the obvious fact that the WI Dems are just hiding as part of a long-term plan to provide a pretext for martial law so the CIA can fully implement REX 84, their efforts to block quorum are downright commendable.
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